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Marriage Bill 2015

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    #2
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,845 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Due to the way the Civil Registration Act was written, excepting for having to clean up how it was later amended for civil partnership, this is the substantive part:

    "Section 2(2) of the Act of 2004 is amended by—
    (a) the deletion of paragraph (e),
    "

    That being the full depth of the exclusions on same-sex marriages in that Act.

    The rest is dealing with other loose ends as well as ending the civil partnership system for new ceremonies.


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    #3
    Wilde_37
    Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭Wilde_37


    I know that anyone who has already given their 3 months notice for a civil partnership can have that "time served" applied to their marriage notice. But will there be an exemption for current civil partners? We we have to give a full 3 months notice again for our civil partnership to be converted to a marriage.

    Also, in the UK, they backdated all marriages tot he date of the civil partnership. Will they do that here? We had a big day for our civil partnership and look on that as our anniversary


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    #4
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,123 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Wilde_37 wrote: »
    I know that anyone who has already given their 3 months notice for a civil partnership can have that "time served" applied to their marriage notice. But will there be an exemption for current civil partners? We we have to give a full 3 months notice again for our civil partnership to be converted to a marriage.

    Also, in the UK, they backdated all marriages tot he date of the civil partnership. Will they do that here? We had a big day for our civil partnership and look on that as our anniversary
    In the UK, you can "convert" your civil partnership into a marriage by, basically, completing the right paperwork. You can have a ceremony if you want but it's not necessary; it's the paperwork that does the conversion.

    The thinking underlying this is that civil partnership is, basically, a kind of marriage.

    The thinking in the Irish system is basically the complete opposite; a civil partnership is not a marriage. Hence, if you are civil partners and you wish to be married, you need to marry, exactly as would a couple who are not already civil partners. So, the whole shooting gallery - notice period, marriage notification form, ceremony, the works.

    So, no. You will have to wait out the full notice period, and you will not get a backdated marriage cert. And you will have to have a ceremony.

    (You can, of course, schedule your ceremony for the day which is the anniversary of your civil partnership, and treat is as a renewal.)


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    #5
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Wilde_37 wrote: »
    I know that anyone who has already given their 3 months notice for a civil partnership can have that "time served" applied to their marriage notice. But will there be an exemption for current civil partners? We we have to give a full 3 months notice again for our civil partnership to be converted to a marriage.

    Also, in the UK, they backdated all marriages tot he date of the civil partnership. Will they do that here? We had a big day for our civil partnership and look on that as our anniversary

    The Bill will now include a clause allowing current civil partners to marry without going through the notice period. We won't know the specifics until the clause is published, but I don't think it would be possible to backdate the marriage to the date of the civil partnership, as there would have been a legal impediment to marriage at the time.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/same-sex-civil-partners-to-skip-notification-period-1.2363966


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    #6
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,414 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Today the marriage equality bill has at last passed through the final stages of the Seanad, 5 months to the day after the referendum.

    President Higgins now has 1 week to sign it into law.

    :D

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #7
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,880 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Ten of Swords wrote: »
    Today the marriage equality bill has at last passed through the final stages of the Seanad, 5 months to the day after the referendum.

    President Higgins now has 1 week to sign it into law.

    :D

    1 week? I'm not aware of a specific timeframe for laws to be signed by the President?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #8
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,414 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Bills enacted by Houses of the Oireachtas are signed into law by the President. A Bill must be signed on the 5th, 6th or 7th day after it is presented to the President, but there are some situations when the President may sign a Bill earlier.

    http://www.president.ie/en/the-president/constitutional-role

    I am open to correction on this but if there were no timeframe in place could the President not sit on a law indefinitely without signing it? As I understand it he must sign the law or invoke article 26 (very rare, has happened only 15 times since 1940) in order to refer it to the Supreme court to test it's constitutionality.

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #9
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,880 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    He's in America at the moment. I guess it could be signed in his absence by the commission.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #10
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Daith


    He's due back Sat.

    Given that he is a lifelong supporter of LGBT rights, I'd imagine he'd want to sign it personally unless there is a specific timeframe.


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    #11
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,123 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    The general rule is that (a) the Taoiseach much present a Bill to the President "as soon as" it has been passed by both houses, and (b) the President must sign it not earlier than five days, and not later than seven days, after it has been presented to him; Constitution, Art. 25.1. There are exceptions, e.g., where a Bill is urgent, or where the President refers it to the Supreme Court for advice on its constitutionality. If the President is absent, his powers and functions "shall be performed" by the Presidential Commission.

    The Bill passed on Thursday 22nd. I think the "as soon as" requirement will be satisfied if the Bill is presented for signature on the 23rd. That gives Michael D. until the 30th to sign it. If he's due back on Saturday 31, I don't think they can wait that long; the Presidential Commission should sign it on his behalf.

    The only wiggle room I can think of is if the Taoiseach can plausibly say that, say, for whatever reason, he wasn't able to present the Bill on the 23rd; Monday 25th was "as soon as" it could be done, and therefore the President has until Monday 2 November. I don't know whether they will do this, and allow Michael D to sign it personally early next week, or whether the Presidential Commission will sign it this week. I guess the latter.


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    #12
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,123 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    The general rule is that (a) the Taoiseach much present a Bill to the President "as soon as" it has been passed by both houses, and (b) the President must sign it not earlier than five days, and not later than seven days, after it has been presented to him; Constitution, Art. 25.1. There are exceptions, e.g., where a Bill is urgent, or where the President refers it to the Supreme Court for advice on its constitutionality. If the President is absent, his powers and functions "shall be performed" by the Presidential Commission.

    The Bill passed on Thursday 22nd. I think the "as soon as" requirement will be satisfied if the Bill is presented for signature on the 23rd. That gives Michael D. until the 30th to sign it. If he's due back on Saturday 31, I don't think they can wait that long; the Presidential Commission should sign it on his behalf.

    The only wiggle room I can think of is if the Taoiseach can plausibly say that, say, for whatever reason, he wasn't able to present the Bill on the 23rd; Monday 25th was "as soon as" it could be done, and therefore the President has until Monday 2 November. I don't know whether they will do this, and allow Michael D to sign it personally early next week, or whether the Presidential Commission will sign it this week. I guess the latter.


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    #13
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Daith


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    The only wiggle room I can think of is if the Taoiseach can plausibly say that, say, for whatever reason, he wasn't able to present the Bill on the 23rd; Monday 25th was "as soon as" it could be done, and therefore the President has until Monday 2 November. I don't know whether they will do this, and allow Michael D to sign it personally early next week, or whether the Presidential Commission will sign it this week. I guess the latter.

    It doesn't make a huge amount of difference but I guess as a symbol it would be nice.


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    #14
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭Daith


    The Marriage Bill has being signed into law by the Presidential Commission.


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    #15
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,414 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Same sex marriages can take place in Ireland from Monday the 16th of November.

    Same sex marriages that happened outside the state will be legally recognized from midnight on the 15th onwards

    :D

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #16
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,880 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Ten of Swords wrote: »
    Same sex marriages can take place in Ireland from Monday the 16th of November.

    Same sex marriages that happened outside the state will be legally recognized from midnight on the 15th onwards

    :D

    *Sheds another tear.....

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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