Ireland v Czech Republic

Ferris_Bueller · 10-02-2012 12:15pm #1

Squad announced:

Given, Westwood, Forde, O’Shea, Kelly, Ward, Dunne, St. Ledger, O’Dea, Foley, Whelan, McCarthy, Coleman, Andrews, Fahey, Gibson, Duff, McGeady, Hunt, Keane, Doyle, Long, Cox, Walters.

No place for McClean, Pilkington, Hoolahan, Wilson.

No surprises really though, didn't think they would get a look in prior to the euros, the above squad is probably what we will head over to Pol/Ukr with, minus one of the above players.

That_Guy · 10-02-2012 12:17pm

I know there'll be a few giving out that McClean isn't in the squad but I personally think Trap is right in leaving him out. The lad is still young and the squad he has chosen are the reason why we're in the Euro's.

Bring him in after the Euro's for the World Cup qualifications.

GavRedKing · 10-02-2012 12:24pm

No Stephen Ireland?

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOaUgwIF8Ja7OyPBkqeO5S-nh4wzqvF6mdBAMhQ4ZU8ozpajvf

:pac:

Dolph Starbeam · 10-02-2012 12:30pm

I'll have to agree with the above, I know we want to see McClean but there will be plenty of chances after the Euros and hopefully he will play a roll in our WC qualification campaign. In saying that a few from that squad really need to start performing pretty soon.

POKERKING · 10-02-2012 12:39pm

Thought there might be room for one surprise package but doesnt appear to be. That is pretty much the squad that will go to Euros.

Would it have done any harm to have a few of the fringe players in and around the squad for this friendly? like have a 28 man squad just to start to integrate players or is trap right in purely focusing on euros?

That_Guy · 10-02-2012 12:41pm

POKERKING wrote: »

Thought there might be room for one surprise package but doesnt appear to be. That is pretty much the squad that will go to Euros.

Would it have done any harm to have a few of the fringe players in and around the squad for this friendly? like have a 28 man squad just to start to integrate players or is trap right in purely focusing on euros?

Well it's preparation for the Euro's. There's only this game, the Bosnia game and a friendly away to Hungary before the Euro's begin.

As long as injuries don't come into play, I imagine this will be the squad that goes to the Euro's.

newballsplease · 10-02-2012 12:46pm

That_Guy wrote: »

Well it's preparation for the Euro's. There's only this game, the Bosnia game and a friendly away to Hungary before the Euro's begin.

As long as injuries don't come into play, I imagine this will be the squad that goes to the Euro's.

Yes but what if injuries Do come into play?? I presume he would go back to the likes of keogh,lawerence,mc shane etc. We wont see any new capped players between now and after the euros..thats for sure.

theoneeyedman · 10-02-2012 12:49pm

Apart from 'loyalty' a lot of the midfielders in particular have little more to offer on the likes of mcclean and pilkington especially, who are form players in the EPL and are at least worth a look IMO. This line of 'these are the lads who got us there' is bogus as far as i'm concerned. These players are professional, the manager has a responsibility to select the best players available to him and IMO he is not doing his job properly by not looking at these players and giving them a proper chance.

LuckyLloyd · 10-02-2012 12:54pm

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Apart from 'loyalty' a lot of the midfielders in particular have little more to offer on the likes of mcclean and pilkington especially, who are form players in the EPL and are at least worth a look IMO. This line of 'these are the lads who got us there' is bogus as far as i'm concerned. These players are professional, the manager has a responsibility to select the best players available to him and IMO he is not doing his job properly by not looking at these players and giving them a proper chance.

The manager's only responsibility is to achieve results.

djPSB · 10-02-2012 12:55pm

Can't believe Trap has overlooked Andy Reid again :pac:

AdpRo · 10-02-2012 12:55pm

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Apart from 'loyalty' a lot of the midfielders in particular have little more to offer on the likes of mcclean and pilkington especially, who are form players in the EPL and are at least worth a look IMO. This line of 'these are the lads who got us there' is bogus as far as i'm concerned. These players are professional, the manager has a responsibility to select the best players available to him and IMO he is not doing his job properly by not looking at these players and giving them a proper chance.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Jesus Shaves · 10-02-2012 12:56pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The manager's only responsibility is to achieve results.

Exactly and that's what he's done so far.

Rekop dog · 10-02-2012 12:56pm

Happy by lack of Mcshane, thought he would have made the squad. Wouldn't have included Coleman, been very poor this season and has barely played in months.

Dolph Starbeam · 10-02-2012 12:56pm

POKERKING wrote: »

Thought there might be room for one surprise package but doesnt appear to be. That is pretty much the squad that will go to Euros.

Would it have done any harm to have a few of the fringe players in and around the squad for this friendly? like have a 28 man squad just to start to integrate players or is trap right in purely focusing on euros?

In fairness Coleman and McCarthy are included after not being around much through the qualification, they are 2 that still could get into the starting 11 if they impress in the next few months.

its_phil · 10-02-2012 1:03pm

This loyalty he's showing is not good for anyone bar the players in the squad. If you know your guaranteed to be going to the Euro's your clearly not going to find that extra gear required to prove you deserve to go to the championships. That extra gear has been the making of some players going to major championships in other countries. On the cusp of the squad and position is debatable, they step up to the plate come the business time and are a key player for the competition.

QDog10 · 10-02-2012 1:12pm

The Italian mentality seems to be one of conservatism in team selection and also team tactics. Personally have been impressed with Mc Clean's performances since he has joined Sunderland. Is still somewhat of an unkonwn to premiership defenders who will be more aware of his style of play and abilities in the return matches/next season. Would agree though that the WC qualifiers is the best time for Trapp to clear the decks/shuffle things around and include the likes of himself/ Coleman in the starting 11 assuming they maintain their form and places with their respective clubs. Would Mc Clean not be worth a place in the Euro squad though to at least add something different if we are chasing a game??

Predalien · 10-02-2012 1:13pm

its_phil wrote: »

This loyalty he's showing is not good for anyone bar the players in the squad. If you know your guaranteed to be going to the Euro's your clearly not going to find that extra gear required to prove you deserve to go to the championships. That extra gear has been the making of some players going to major championships in other countries. On the cusp of the squad and position is debatable, they step up to the plate come the business time and are a key player for the competition.

I can't agree with that, that 'extra gear' can be found if you know the manager has faith in you, they all know exactly how Trap has set out his stall and it's up to them to repay his faith and push themselves so they don't let down their team-mates or management. I'm personally happy enough with the squad, tournament football requires absolutely solid team spirit,Trap wants to maintain that, anyone of today's squad that don't go it will be because of injury so there is still room for others to push their way in. This way we won't have any English style bullshít about players being left out (Gazza).

JerryHandbag · 10-02-2012 1:13pm

djPSB wrote: »

Can't believe Trap has overlooked Andy Reid again :pac:

I love Traps response when RTE's Tony O'Donoghue asked him that question for the umpteenth time in an interview...

"Andy Reid....TONY!....MAMMA MIA!!!!"

Paparazzo · 10-02-2012 1:14pm

That_Guy wrote: »

I know there'll be a few giving out that McClean isn't in the squad but I personally think Trap is right in leaving him out. The lad is still young and the squad he has chosen are the reason why we're in the Euro's.

Bring him in after the Euro's for the World Cup qualifications.

I think he should have picked McClean. These are friendlies to try out things before the euros. No harm to pick him to see how he does.
I don't buy being young as an excuse to not play in any game. If you're good enough, you're old enough.

That_Guy · 10-02-2012 1:17pm

newballsplease wrote: »

Yes but what if injuries Do come into play?? I presume he would go back to the likes of keogh,lawerence,mc shane etc. We wont see any new capped players between now and after the euros..thats for sure.

More than likely he would go call on these players should injuries arise. Why? They know the system by now.

I don't and didn't expect any new players to get selected for these upcoming fixtures. The immediate futrure is the Euro's and that's what we should be looking towards. How would you feel if you were a key player in getting us to the Euro's only for your chance to play at a big tournament be taken by a young lad who didn't partake in the Euro qualifiers.

Plenty of time for the young lads to get a go.

Ferris_Bueller · 10-02-2012 1:18pm

McClean/Pilkington are the McCarthy/Coleman of last year. McCarthy and Coleman are now regulars in the squad, to me it just looks like Trap really wants to ease players into the squad and show them that they have to work hard and be dedicated. I have no doubt that McClean and probably Pilkington (has he officially declared?), will feature in squads after the euros, but for now Trap is sticking to the players who have earned the right to be there.

AGC · 10-02-2012 1:19pm

That_Guy wrote: »

I know there'll be a few giving out that McClean isn't in the squad but I personally think Trap is right in leaving him out. The lad is still young and the squad he has chosen are the reason why we're in the Euro's.

Bring him in after the Euro's for the World Cup qualifications.

Disagree, he is the form Irish player in the EPL at the minute and deserves his chance to prove himself.

These players got us there great, but why can't we move on and try get better with the inclusion of better players? McClean has stood out for Sunderland and for me would be one of the 1st names on the team sheet at the minute.

We could have a very strong midfield but alas, we won't.

Rekop dog · 10-02-2012 1:19pm

QDog10 wrote: »

The Italian mentality seems to be one of conservatism in team selection and also team tactics. Personally have been impressed with Mc Clean's performances since he has joined Sunderland. Is still somewhat of an unkonwn to premiership defenders who will be more aware of his style of play and abilities in the return matches/next season. Would agree though that the WC qualifiers is the best time for Trapp to clear the decks/shuffle things around and include the likes of himself/ Coleman in the starting 11 assuming they maintain their form and places with their respective clubs. Would Mc Clean not be worth a place in the Euro squad though to at least add something different if we are chasing a game??

LOL at the lazy stereotyping of Italian managers mentality.

That_Guy · 10-02-2012 1:24pm

Paparazzo wrote: »

I think he should have picked McClean. These are friendlies to try out things before the euros. No harm to pick him to see how he does.
I don't buy being young as an excuse to not play in any game. If you're good enough, you're old enough.

I disagree somewhat. Yes friendlies are important in terms of blooding in new players and trying out various tactics but not when we've only got three games to prepare for a tournament.

The tactics that McClean knows at Sunderland are quite different to that of Trap's. He'll learn in time but I think three games before we play the likes of Spain and Italy is too little time to prepare in my opinion.

I want to see new players being introduced as much as the next guy but I'm content with what we have at our disposal for now.

That_Guy · 10-02-2012 1:28pm

AGC wrote: »

Disagree, he is the form Irish player in the EPL at the minute and deserves his chance to prove himself.

These players got us there great, but why can't we move on and try get better with the inclusion of better players? McClean has stood out for Sunderland and for me would be one of the 1st names on the team sheet at the minute.

We could have a very strong midfield but alas, we won't.

So you wouldn't mind stepping aside for a young lad to take your place even though you've played every minute of every game in the run up to the Euro's?

He's in form sure but he's only recently started playing at a much higher level than he's used to at Derry City. He's done well don't get me wrong but there's still a lot to learn. He'll get his chance eventually.

LuckyLloyd · 10-02-2012 1:29pm

AGC wrote: »

Disagree, he is the form Irish player in the EPL at the minute and deserves his chance to prove himself.

These players got us there great, but why can't we move on and try get better with the inclusion of better players? McClean has stood out for Sunderland and for me would be one of the 1st names on the team sheet at the minute.

We could have a very strong midfield but alas, we won't.

Has Andy Reid thought us nothing?

cgpg5 · 10-02-2012 1:30pm

Not bothered about him leaving out McClean he won't start anyway, but that will be the squad going to the euros more than likely minus 1 player who probably be a striker. Cox seems guaranteed to go so things mightn't look great for Shane Loing which would be a disastrous decision.

theoneeyedman · 10-02-2012 1:40pm

That_Guy wrote: »

So you wouldn't mind stepping aside for a young lad to take your place even though you've played every minute of every game in the run up to the Euro's?

.

this to me is the most bogus part of the argument re: whether these lads are selected or not. All the players in and around the squad are professionals. Being selected/dropped is a part of the game at all levels. It gets (and should get) more ruthless and cut throat the higher up in the game you go. Of course whoever drops out would be pissed off, but so what, they are supposed to be pros, and dealing with pissed off players is a part of team management at every level of the game. The loyalty and kudos you might show for a loyal servant to a junior club playing a big game is completly different to showing unfailing loyalty to players at this level.
Trap and co are entitled to select the players they want to select when they want to select them, and ultimatly they will live or die by the decisions they make, but IMO loyalty to players because they have played through the qualifying campaign should have f all to do with it

Rekop dog · 10-02-2012 1:43pm

The success of Trap's teams has always been built around players being extremely familier with his system. Familiarty only comes with plenty of game time together. This is not a time for integration. So we were never going to have too much changes in the squad. I'd expect Trap to field a very unexperimental side in both friendlies.

While we'll all have our own ideas about who should or shouldn't be in the squad, I'd wager that nobody would come anywhere near the depth of thought of Trap on this, a man who, again just to remind ourselves is one of the most successful managers of all time.

LuckyLloyd · 10-02-2012 1:56pm

theoneeyedman wrote: »

this to me is the most bogus part of the argument re: whether these lads are selected or not. All the players in and around the squad are professionals. Being selected/dropped is a part of the game at all levels. It gets (and should get) more ruthless and cut throat the higher up in the game you go. Of course whoever drops out would be pissed off, but so what, they are supposed to be pros, and dealing with pissed off players is a part of team management at every level of the game. The loyalty and kudos you might show for a loyal servant to a junior club playing a big game is completly different to showing unfailing loyalty to players at this level.
Trap and co are entitled to select the players they want to select when they want to select them, and ultimatly they will live or die by the decisions they make, but IMO loyalty to players because they have played through the qualifying campaign should have f all to do with it

I'm sorry, but they are also men. Men who will be asked to go out in three successive games in a short space of time against opponents who are technically and athletically superior to them from 1 - 11. And they will be asked to make a fist of it each time, to close that technical / athletic gap through passion, pride and determination alone.

A settled camp with an element of siege mentality about it will help to achieve that. A sense that the players in the squad are the people to earn this shot will help to achieve that. A shared experience of previous disappointments will help to achieve that. A sense that extraordinary effort on the pitch will be repaid in faith and loyalty from the manager will help to achieve that.

This is not a run of the mill premiership side. This is something a lot more important - and complex - than that.

Mitch Connor · 10-02-2012 2:00pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm sorry, but they are also men. Men who will be asked to go out in three successive games in a short space of time against opponents who are technically and athletically superior to them from 1 - 11. And they will be asked to make a fist of it each time, to close that technical / athletic gap through passion, pride and determination alone.

A settled camp with an element of siege mentality about it will help to achieve that. A sense that the players in the squad are the people to earn this shot will help to achieve that. A sense that extraordinary effort on the pitch will be repaid in faith and loyalty from the manager will help to achieve that.

This is not a run of the mill premiership side. This is something a lot more important - and complex - than that.

What happens if one or two of the midfielders get injured in the last couple of weeks of the league? We end up having to bring in players, like McClean, who will have no experience of playing in the set up required. It is pathetically stupid to not bring in a few of the fringe players for the warm up games - we know what the first 11 will be and we know what they can do, same of the consistent backups to them, we need to see the players outside of the probably 23 get some game time and experience.

Red Crow · 10-02-2012 2:01pm

Lot's of cotton wool for Keane and Dunne hopefully.

Kirby · 10-02-2012 2:12pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What happens if one or two of the midfielders get injured in the last couple of weeks of the league? We end up having to bring in players, like McClean, who will have no experience of playing in the set up required. It is pathetically stupid to not bring in a few of the fringe players for the warm up games - we know what the first 11 will be and we know what they can do, same of the consistent backups to them, we need to see the players outside of the probably 23 get some game time and experience.

I agree with this. We already know what the established group can do. They qualified us. Use these friendlies to test out the promising unknowns. That way if injury strikes, they are familiar with the setup and exactly what trap wants from them.

Going with the same old same old in friendlies is a mistake.

AGC · 10-02-2012 2:15pm

That_Guy wrote: »

So you wouldn't mind stepping aside for a young lad to take your place even though you've played every minute of every game in the run up to the Euro's?

Did i say that??

The regulars who have done well deserve their spot but there is names in that squad who do not play regular football and who are massively out of form. Why do they deserve more chances??

That_Guy · 10-02-2012 2:28pm

AGC wrote: »

Did i say that??

Nope. Just a hypothetical scenario really.

The regulars who have done well deserve their spot but there is names in that squad who do not play regular football and who are massively out of form. Why do they deserve more chances??

I've criticised the team selection before but despite not being chosen for their respective squads, maybe... Just maybe Trap sees a lot of hard work going on in training behind the scenes that we don't see.

McClean is a flash in the pan at the moment. I doubt Trap had any intention of bringing him in just yet. He's on a good run of form at the moment but has only played a handful of games for Sunderland.

I don't think sticking him in against Spain or Italy would be a great help to his progress either to be honest.

ironbluedun · 10-02-2012 2:44pm

he should have brought in a few new faces just to freshen things a bit.....otherwise complacency

Vokes · 10-02-2012 2:49pm

cgpg5 wrote: »

Not bothered about him leaving out McClean he won't start anyway, but that will be the squad going to the euros more than likely minus 1 player who probably be a striker. Cox seems guaranteed to go so things mightn't look great for Shane Loing which would be a disastrous decision.

He'll bring those 5 forwards for sure considering we play a system with 2 upfront. If we brought only 4 forwards, then injuries/suspensions to 2 of the forwards going into the last group game (which is not totally unlikely) would leave us with no backup forward.

AGC · 10-02-2012 2:52pm

That_Guy wrote: »

Nope. Just a hypothetical scenario really.

I've criticised the team selection before but despite not being chosen for their respective squads, maybe... Just maybe Trap sees a lot of hard work going on in training behind the scenes that we don't see.

McClean is a flash in the pan at the moment. I doubt Trap had any intention of bringing him in just yet. He's on a good run of form at the moment but has only played a handful of games for Sunderland.

I don't think sticking him in against Spain or Italy would be a great help to his progress either to be honest.

He has to take a risk, we will be up against it in all 3 group games. McClean is the form player, let him play against the Czechs to prove himself.

His 'Flash in the pan' could continue and he could get better, why take the chance on leaving him out for a run of the mill player??

cgpg5 · 10-02-2012 2:54pm

Vokes wrote: »

He'll bring those 5 forwards for sure considering we play a system with 2 upfront. If we brought only 4 forwards, then injuries/suspensions to 2 of the forwards going into the last group game (which is not totally unlikely) would leave us with no backup forward.

Many teams go with 4 though. I know we don't have a midfielder who can really cover attack but its hard to imagine we'll play two out and out strikers anyway I'd say Doyle will play off Keane against the Spanish and Italians. If worst came to worst Duff could cover this role. Just can't see who else he'd leave out? McCarthy possibly which would be a very poor decision, but he'll pick Fahey regardless I'd say.

Vokes · 10-02-2012 3:03pm

He has never deviated from the 2 out-and-out forwards (open to correction on this) and can't see him changing even against Spain/Italy. Fully expect it to be those 5 forwards going, with Keane + 1 other to start obviously. He'll leave out Fahey or Coleman for Euros I reckon.

Paparazzo · 10-02-2012 3:21pm

That_Guy wrote: »

I disagree somewhat. Yes friendlies are important in terms of blooding in new players and trying out various tactics but not when we've only got three games to prepare for a tournament.

The tactics that McClean knows at Sunderland are quite different to that of Trap's. He'll learn in time but I think three games before we play the likes of Spain and Italy is too little time to prepare in my opinion.

I want to see new players being introduced as much as the next guy but I'm content with what we have at our disposal for now.

I'm the opposite. 3 games, including the training sessions involved and the training camp in Poland is plenty of time for a player to learn how trap plays. It's not a complicated way we play. If he doesn't perform as the manager asks in training or the friendlies, fine, don't bring him.

Pro. F · 10-02-2012 4:46pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm sorry, but they are also men. Men who will be asked to go out in three successive games in a short space of time against opponents who are technically and athletically superior to them from 1 - 11. And they will be asked to make a fist of it each time, to close that technical / athletic gap through passion, pride and determination alone.

A settled camp with an element of siege mentality about it will help to achieve that. A sense that the players in the squad are the people to earn this shot will help to achieve that. A shared experience of previous disappointments will help to achieve that. A sense that extraordinary effort on the pitch will be repaid in faith and loyalty from the manager will help to achieve that.

This is not a run of the mill premiership side. This is something a lot more important - and complex - than that.

I completely agree that we need a united and committed squad and a settled camp helps in that regard. But the odd change here and there would not interfere with that.

Trap has already introduced new players to the squad and moved other players out of it over time. I cannot agree with the idea that it has to be a closed shop in order to get passionate effort out of the players.

LuckyLloyd · 10-02-2012 4:51pm

Pro. F wrote: »

I completely agree that we need a united and committed squad and a settled camp helps in that regard. But the odd change here and there would not interfere with that.

Trap has already introduced new players to the squad and moved other players out of it over time. I cannot agree with the idea that it has to be a closed shop in order to get passionate effort out of the players.

Quite an organic process though, wasn't it? If McClean is still playing like this in the premiership in 18 months time he will be an Irish regular by that stage, no doubt.

clubberlang12 · 10-02-2012 5:06pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If McClean is still playing like this in the premiership in 18 months time he will be an Irish regular by that stage, no doubt.

What if he is still playing like this come May and Trap hasn't brought him into any of the prevailing friendly squads? Does he still decide not to bring a young, in-form winger who could add something different than our other present wingers? Or does he then decide to bring in a player who had no experience at this level or with in the set up?
No one is expecting him to suddenly be commanding a starting role in the senior team. But to exclude what could be a very useful resource from having any involvement in the preparation or friendly game itself is very naive on Traps part.

Pro. F · 10-02-2012 5:18pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Quite an organic process though, wasn't it? If McClean is still playing like this in the premiership in 18 months time he will be an Irish regular by that stage, no doubt.

Yes it was an organic process. And I'm not against keeping a fair bit of consistency in the team in friendlies so they can practice and focus as a team. But there has to be a balance struck and Trap's squad selection is just far more conservative than it needs to be. Having some competition for squad places and starting positions is not going to harm the commitment of the players.

Just to be clear, I'm not calling for McClean to be starting in this friendly. I think that since he is obviously so good that he should have been introduced to the squad before now anyway. And arguing about the inclusion of individual players in the starting line up can only go so far when I disagree with Trap's long term decisions in forming the team.
But I do think McClean should be called up to the squad.

Yakult · 10-02-2012 5:54pm

Now isn't the time for McClean to be called up. With the Euros so close, the team that's playing that tournament need any opportunity they can get to play together. Can see him being introduced after the Euros tho. Plenty of time for the guy to get games.

WoollyRedHat · 10-02-2012 6:26pm

Trapattoni has spoken to McClean since he announced squad.
Has also said there are 4 or 5 names he has in mind but won't include now because it is too soon... we can imagine who they may be.. anyway hopeful for those looking for new blood after euros

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/trapattoni-we-have-no-time-to-change-539368.html

Raskolnikov · 10-02-2012 7:17pm

theoneeyedman wrote: »

the manager has a responsibility to select the best players available to him

Like Steve Staunton did? :pac:

Raskolnikov · 10-02-2012 7:30pm

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Given, Westwood, Forde, O’Shea, Kelly, Ward, Dunne, St. Ledger, O’Dea, Foley, Whelan, McCarthy, Coleman, Andrews, Fahey, Gibson, Duff, McGeady, Hunt, Keane, Doyle, Long, Cox, Walters.

Interesting that out of that squad, only 4 players are in the Championship.

Rhys Essien · 13-02-2012 12:35pm

With Dunne out for a month,oppurtunity to call up regular Premiership defender Marc Wilson.
Will Trap call him up,will he Fcuk.

nordydan · 13-02-2012 2:35pm

Duffy called up to replace Dunne

Ireland v Czech Republic

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