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The Corrib Tape

1235

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭angelfire9


    The Irish Daily mail has seemingly (according to thejournal.ie) published the names and photos of the Gardai involved

    Personally I think it's a disgrace
    And what makes it worse... The must have gotten the info from other cops (I can't think of any other way they could have gotten names & pics)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    You read it here folks: only a feminist would say "You can't joke about rape". Yes it has been blown out of proportion, yes there have been ludicrously distorted reports, no I don't think they deserve a harsh reprimand, but they're still knuckledraggers, and that "feminist" comment is knuckledraggy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    angelfire9 wrote: »
    The Irish Daily mail has seemingly (according to thejournal.ie) published the names and photos of the Gardai involved

    Personally I think it's a disgrace
    And what makes it worse... The must have gotten the info from other cops (I can't think of any other way they could have gotten names & pics)

    The protesters would have their names.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭angelfire9


    k_mac wrote: »
    The protesters would have their names.

    Names yes, but pics?
    Plus the mail has seemingly stated that one of the cops involved had recently been commended for his dealings with an actual rape case they wouldn't have gotten that info from the women!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,607 ✭✭✭pah


    angelfire9 wrote: »
    Names yes, but pics?
    Plus the mail has seemingly stated that one of the cops involved had recently been commended for his dealings with an actual rape case

    just goes to show how desensitised one could become.

    I've just listened to the tape and tbh its 15 seconds of the 40 minutes that is being splashed all over the media & is unfortunate. I don't believe that any member would repeat this kind of thing in public and as a private conversation it should not have been made public.

    I wonder how many people have commented about this without listening to the whole tape?

    There was a protest outside the dail yesterday by
    Source - indymedia.ie
    Dublin Rape Crisis Centre, Shell to Sea, SIPTU and the National Women’s Council of Ireland as well as migrants, environmental and community organisations...
    .

    about 150 protestors from the above groups, all with a vested interest in publicising this as much as possible. As much as the gardai seem to have been desensitised to a degree it is the groups who are overly sensitive to the issue that are making the most noise. Unfortunately they don't seem to have the full story either.

    Is this poster a fair reflection of the 40 minute recording?
    demo_four.jpg

    I doubt this child knows anything about sex btw never mind rape! Why would you bring your kids along to something like this? Ridiculous!
    demo_seven.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    I could stick my head above the parapet here and say the Rape Crisis centre should be renamed the Womens Rape Crisis centre. In their world, the woman is always the victim, and the man is always the culprit, and all men are potential rapists.

    Remember a while back a male manager was forced from his job with them, and went public on the feminist agenda, only to be shouted down as a "typical insensitive man"?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Look, you're right to be annoyed by that sexist crap against men, but using the term "feminist" as a perjorative looks ignorant.

    Plus, I don't believe the RCC wouldn't welcome men who have experienced sexual abuse - sorry, but many men themselves make it difficult for males who have experienced sexual abuse as adults, or even as just teenagers: "Shur you should be glad you got some, har har" if it's by a woman.

    I'd agree the RCC needs to be less feminised, and present itself more in such a way that it supports ALL who have experienced sexual abuse, but I don't agree it's not a support service for men. Nor do I agree its point of view is that all men are potential rapists.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭discus


    I could stick my head above the parapet here and say the Rape Crisis centre should be renamed the Womens Rape Crisis centre. In their world, the woman is always the victim, and the man is always the culprit, and all men are potential rapists.

    Same with the domestic abuse centres. You rarely hear them come looking for men who have stories to tell.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    Dudess wrote: »
    Look, you're right to be annoyed by that sexist crap against men, but using the term "feminist" as a perjorative looks ignorant.

    Plus, I don't believe the RCC wouldn't welcome men who have experienced sexual abuse - sorry, but many men themselves make it difficult for males who have experienced sexual abuse as adults, or even as just teenagers: "Shur you should be glad you got some, har har" if it's by a woman.

    I'd agree the RCC needs to be less feminised, and present itself more in such a way that it supports ALL who have experienced sexual abuse, but I don't agree it's not a support service for men. Nor do I agree its point of view is that all men are potential rapists.

    It does not promote itself as an all gender support service.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Yeah I said that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭discus


    Dudess wrote: »
    Plus, I don't believe the RCC wouldn't welcome men who have experienced sexual abuse - sorry, but many men themselves make it difficult for males who have experienced sexual abuse as adults, or even as just teenagers: "Shur you should be glad you got some, har har" if it's by a woman.

    That is utter bollox. By and large, if a man has suffered something along those lines, he will have his friends as his only support network. The RCC wouldn't give a ****, I'd be fairly inclined to say that they'd even be wary of his story.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,084 ✭✭✭eroo


    That poster that pah posted just goes to show how unreasonable these protesters are. The poster would suggest that the Gardai threatened the women with rape, where they did not.

    Instead, the usual headbangers were delighted to have a stick with which to beat the Gardai.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    discus wrote: »
    That is utter bollox. By and large, if a man has suffered something along those lines, he will have his friends as his only support network. The RCC wouldn't give a ****, I'd be fairly inclined to say that they'd even be wary of his story.
    You're saying a man would be just turned away from the Rape Crisis Centre? How in the hell would you know that? Dangerous assumption tbh - you think it's a good idea to spread the message that a man who has been sexually attacked should not bother going to a support service regarding it? I agree it's not promoted as a service for men, but that doesn't mean a man would not be welcomed. Around the time of the Ryan Report, plenty of men were contacting the Centre about their experiences of being abused in institutions when they were children/teenagers.
    It's not a deliberate policy of discrimination against men, it's a culture that does not encourage men to seek help following a domestic attack (especially by a woman) or a sexual assault - "the feminists" aren't solely responsible for this, and some men themselves don't exactly help it. The government sets aside **** all funding for men's support groups - I don't know why, probably because of the "Ah men will be all right" mindset still ingrained in the Irish psyche.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭maglite


    pah wrote: »
    Is this poster a fair reflection of the 40 minute recording?


    garda.png


    TBH I think this better reflects the full conversation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    Dudess wrote: »
    You're saying a man would be just turned away from the Rape Crisis Centre? How in the hell would you know that? Dangerous assumption tbh - you think it's a good idea to spread the message that a man who has been sexually attacked should not bother going to a support service regarding it? I agree it's not promoted as a service for men, but that doesn't mean a man would not be welcomed. Around the time of the Ryan Report, plenty of men were contacting the Centre about their experiences of being abused in institutions when they were children/teenagers.
    It's not a deliberate policy of discrimination against men, it's a culture that does not encourage men to seek help following a domestic attack (especially by a woman) or a sexual assault - "the feminists" aren't solely responsible for this, and some men themselves don't exactly help it. The government sets aside **** all funding for men's support groups - I don't know why, probably because of the "Ah men will be all right" mindset still ingrained in the Irish psyche.

    I had cause to speak to one of their staff about a third party I was concerned for some years ago and the woman on the other end was very dismissive of me. I did not encourage the party to contact them, as I didn't feel they would be sympathetic.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Vourney


    I for one find the jokes offensive because I know for a fact that a large proportion of the population in Ireland, have no problem with rape and they don't see it as wrong. Anyone who doesn't know this is living in a fantasy world. Why do you think the priests had such a field day in Ireland over any other country?

    And you can't teach these people otherwise. They don't have the ability to distinguish between rape and sex, to them it's all the same. Let me repeat that -- they don't have the ability to distinguish between rape and sex, they view it as the same thing. I've had people say this to me, and tell me clearly this is what they believe. Concepts such as "dignity" are foreign to people like this. People like that will never understand how qualities like respect and admiration could relate to attraction and normal relations between men and women. If you tried to talk to them about such things, you'll be greeting with a puzzled look of sheer confusion and frustration and anger over being exposed to ideas they are incapable of grasping. That's just how they are, they can't be otherwise, they can't "unlearn" this. This is reality, however politically incorrect it may seem. In an effort to try to assert their behavior and beliefs as acceptable, and compensate for their wounded pride, they will try to drag others down to their level.

    That's why the laws are there, to protect normal people from these less evolved people. Yes, they are less evolved, how else could you word it? If you think that statement is offensive, then tell me how or why it isn't true.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭source


    Vourney wrote: »
    I for one find the jokes offensive because I know for a fact that a large proportion of the population in Ireland, have no problem with rape and they don't see it as wrong. Anyone who doesn't know this is living in a fantasy world. Why do you think the priests had such a field day in Ireland over any other country?

    And you can't teach these people otherwise. They don't have the ability to distinguish between rape and sex, to them it's all the same. Let me repeat that -- they don't have the ability to distinguish between rape and sex, they view it as the same thing. I've had people say this to me, and tell me clearly this is what they believe. Concepts such as "dignity" are foreign to people like this. People like that will never understand how qualities like respect and admiration could relate to attraction and normal relations between men and women. If you tried to talk to them about such things, you'll be greeting with a puzzled look of sheer confusion and frustration and anger over being exposed to ideas they are incapable of grasping. That's just how they are, they can't be otherwise, they can't "unlearn" this. This is reality, however politically incorrect it may seem. In an effort to try to assert their behavior and beliefs as acceptable, and compensate for their wounded pride, they will try to drag others down to their level.

    That's why the laws are there, to protect normal people from these less evolved people. Yes, they are less evolved, how else could you word it? If you think that statement is offensive, then tell me how or why it isn't true.


    That is the biggest load of claptrap I have ever read.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Vourney


    That's because you know it's true. I personally know of many Irish people who view rape very casually and no big deal. Just because you live in a bubble doesn't mean these people don't exist. You're probably the typical airhead Irish male who loves to say "Ah sure, it's all grand" and "I try not to take life too seriously". All the expressions and mindsets designed to keep you immature and living in your fantasy land. Along with a healthy dose of alcoholism, necessary to keep reality at bay.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭source


    Vourney wrote: »
    That's because you know it's true. I personally know of many Irish people who view rape very casually and no big deal. Just because you live in a bubble doesn't mean these people don't exist. You're probably the typical airhead Irish male who loves to say "Ah sure, it's all grand" and "I try not to take life too seriously". All the expressions and mindsets designed to keep you immature and living in your fantasy land. Along with a healthy dose of alcoholism, necessary to keep reality at bay.

    At first I thought you were serious, but now I see that you're just flaming, looking for a fight....Post reported.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    +1 more claptrap.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Vourney wrote: »
    I personally know of many Irish people who view rape very casually

    Jeans wearers are they?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Vourney


    mikom wrote: »
    Jeans wearers are they?

    What does that mean?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Vourney


    foinse wrote: »
    At first I thought you were serious, but now I see that you're just flaming, looking for a fight....Post reported.

    No, that is an accurate statement of my experience. I do know a lot of Irish people who view rape as normal. This is my experience. I'm sorry if that upsets you, but that is an accurate statement about my experience with Irish people. I'm just stating what I know and what I've experienced.

    So you don't like what I'm saying, so you go run and tell teacher.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Vourney wrote: »
    What does that mean?

    It means "whoosh".


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,820 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Vourney wrote: »
    I do know a lot of Irish people who view rape as normal. This is my experience.
    I've lived in Ireland for forty years. I've never met anyone who viewed rape as normal. I call bull.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Vourney


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I've lived in Ireland for forty years. I've never met anyone who viewed rape as normal. I call bull.

    You can call anything you want to, I know what I've experienced, and what people have said to me. I'm just telling the truth of what I have experienced.


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,820 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Vourney wrote: »
    I'm just telling the truth of what I have experienced.
    I doubt it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Vourney wrote: »
    You can call anything you want to, I know what I've experienced, and what people have said to me. I'm just telling the truth of what I have experienced.

    I reckon I meet more Irish in a week then you would in a year.
    Who would have a better feeling for Irish attitudes to rape....... you?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Vourney wrote: »
    You can call anything you want to, I know what I've experienced, and what people have said to me. I'm just telling the truth of what I have experienced.

    I don't know what people you associated with when here, I really don't.

    Does the US not have the same problem or is it just here?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Vourney


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I doubt it.

    Of course you do. Have another drink and forget you ever heard me say this.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭Dayo93


    Vourney wrote: »
    You can call anything you want to, I know what I've experienced, and what people have said to me. I'm just telling the truth of what I have experienced.

    Were you by any chancing hanging out with a group of rapists when when they expressed these opinions ???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Vourney


    mikom wrote: »
    I reckon I meet more Irish in a week then you would in a year.
    Who would have a better feeling for Irish attitudes to rape....... you?

    Your avatar says it all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Vourney


    What about that rapist out in Kerry, with half the community coming out to support him, and the priest as well. That's not real? That didn't happen?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Vourney wrote: »
    Your avatar says it all.
    You're only scratching the surface Vourney lass.

    Judging by your posts it sounds like you have more issues with alcohol then the Irish you are giving the sly drink digs to.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Vourney


    mikom wrote: »
    You're only scratching the surface Vourney lass.

    Judging by your posts it sounds like you have more issues with alcohol then the Irish you are giving the sly drink digs to.

    I have no idea what you mean by the first statement. I don't understand it.

    The second statement is incorrect. I don't have any addiction issues.

    More likely You're just trying to agitate me.

    I know I'm have the right to speak honestly about what I've experienced, regardless of being called a liar or having to withstand the various character assasinations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭Tyron Jara


    Im not a guard yet and ive heard some may have a warped sense of humour but I think this could of been a way the guards deal with what they see everyday. Joke about it. I know its kinda wierd but it was in private. However they were caught and probably only deserve a slap on the wrist because when they got home that night (Espiecally the seargent who is married with two kids) whatever happend then is enough abuse for anyone!My opinion it was a private joke between 5 guards who are probably buddies and they should not be roasted for it!

    However then theres the case of what if they had been talking about someone you loved? Does the good the guards do outway the bad comments made?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 177 ✭✭nutts_77


    Vourney wrote: »
    You can call anything you want to, I know what I've experienced, and what people have said to me. I'm just telling the truth of what I have experienced.

    Would you care to outline some of these "experiences" ??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Vourney wrote: »

    The second statement is incorrect. I don't have any addiction issues.

    Less addiction, and more about the way in which you used alcohol as a club to beat other posters.
    Vourney wrote: »
    You're probably the typical airhead Irish male who loves to say "Ah sure, it's all grand" and "I try not to take life too seriously". All the expressions and mindsets designed to keep you immature and living in your fantasy land. Along with a healthy dose of alcoholism, necessary to keep reality at bay.
    Vourney wrote: »
    Have another drink and forget you ever heard me say this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭discus


    Dudess wrote: »
    You're saying a man would be just turned away from the Rape Crisis Centre? How in the hell would you know that? Dangerous assumption tbh - you think it's a good idea to spread the message that a man who has been sexually attacked should not bother going to a support service regarding it? I agree it's not promoted as a service for men, but that doesn't mean a man would not be welcomed. Around the time of the Ryan Report, plenty of men were contacting the Centre about their experiences of being abused in institutions when they were children/teenagers.

    No I don't think a man would be turned away. I do think that he'd undergo a lot more scrutiny than a woman though. It's not a message I portray, it's what a lot of men think about it.
    It's not a deliberate policy of discrimination against men, it's a culture that does not encourage men to seek help following a domestic attack (especially by a woman) or a sexual assault - "the feminists" aren't solely responsible for this, and some men themselves don't exactly help it. The government sets aside **** all funding for men's support groups - I don't know why, probably because of the "Ah men will be all right" mindset still ingrained in the Irish psyche.

    No, because men don't speak up right now. Castration jokes are fine, but rape jokes aren't. Airlines don't let single men sit beside kids, but women are fine. Getting a divorce - enjoy 4 hours of supervised custody a week if you're a man. Thank you feminism, for creating equals of us all.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    Mod Note

    This thread is about the private conversation of Gardai that was subsequently recorded.

    Please keep it on topic.

    Vourney you have been infracted for insulting other posters, if you wish to continue to contribute here keep it civil and on topic or you will be banned from the forum


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Tragedy wrote: »
    Only if someone who you told the joke to made a complaint. If an employer started bugging your office without your consent or knowledge(even accidentally) and then used that against you, you would be looking at quite a large settlement figure after litigation.

    Are you proposing we fire the guards in question but offer them six figure sums each?

    Only if? Believe me sir they would, in fact it would be certain they would make a complaint.

    The Garda Dept. didnt bug said Gardai they were taped by a citizen. Apples and Oranges.

    I find it hard to believe "it is banter" talk as I have never heard or said anything about rape in my lifetime. Maybe it is an insight into the type of people the Gardai employ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    jank wrote: »
    Only if? Believe me sir they would, in fact it would be certain they would make a complaint.

    The Garda Dept. didnt bug said Gardai they were taped by a citizen. Apples and Oranges.

    I find it hard to believe "it is banter" talk as I have never heard or said anything about rape in my lifetime. Maybe it is an insight into the type of people the Gardai employ?

    Or it shows what they have to deal with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Vourney wrote: »
    That's because you know it's true. I personally know of many Irish people who view rape very casually and no big deal.
    It's very sad that your interaction with Irish people is limited to the addiction centre in a sex offenders wing, but I assure you this isn't how Irish people are.

    Perhaps try to get out more, enabling you to meet more Irish people? I can assure you that, as an Irish citizen who's been in contact with Irish people for over 30years, Irish people do not view rape as normal. Quite the contrary in fact - you'll find that the Irish society, as a whole, finds rape abhorable & views rape as a serious crime. The Irish have a number of legal offences associated with it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,056 ✭✭✭Tragedy


    jank wrote: »
    Only if? Believe me sir they would, in fact it would be certain they would make a complaint.
    No it wouldn't, as evidenced by how divided opinion is on this.
    Please don't state 'facts' that are opinions you came up with.
    The Garda Dept. didnt bug said Gardai they were taped by a citizen. Apples and Oranges.
    It still can't be used to discipline them unless they abused the citizen in person.
    I find it hard to believe "it is banter" talk as I have never heard or said anything about rape in my lifetime. Maybe it is an insight into the type of people the Gardai employ?
    Your post in an insight in to the type of people who jump on the bandwagon and scream hysterically about an out of context 'joke' from a Gardai commended for his work on rape cases.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Vourney


    Zulu wrote: »
    It's very sad that your interaction with Irish people is limited to the addiction centre in a sex offenders wing, but I assure you this isn't how Irish people are.

    Perhaps try to get out more, enabling you to meet more Irish people? I can assure you that, as an Irish citizen who's been in contact with Irish people for over 30years, Irish people do not view rape as normal. Quite the contrary in fact - you'll find that the Irish society, as a whole, finds rape abhorable & views rape as a serious crime. The Irish have a number of legal offences associated with it.

    So I'm not supposed to insult other posters, while my honesty is not only questioned but completely rejected. That's an insult to me. Because I am an honest person, and I find it insulting to have my honesty questioned, especially by sarcastic people who try to tear down and make me back down from the truth.

    You start with what appears to be a lie. I looked at your posts, it seems you just go around needling people, and being nasty at a low level. I seriously am in doubt of your ability to experience sadness, and I think that was sarcastic. I do not comprehend Irish sarcasism, I personally don't care for it, it comes across as amaturish and over-reaching one's abilities to me. Sarcastic people usually are sad, but have a hard time feeling genuine emotions. Either way, I don't understand the opening line. If you are trying to say you think I am sad, I will ask you to refrain from such comments, as I will state my feelings for myself, whilst you have the right to state your own feelings.

    Your interests are booze and hookers. Oh nice. Yet you think you live in a wonderful society that abhors rape. Why don't you try finding out how many "hookers" as you call them are victims of sexual assault. That called hypocracy.

    I don't need to get out more, I've met plenty of people in Ireland, from all walks of life. I've spent a lot of time there and have a lot of family there. My experiences are what they are, and anyone who asks me to justify myself, and proove that I know enough Irish people to make this statement, is wrong. I don't have to justify anything. I have to right to state what I've experienced whether you can handle it or not.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Vourney wrote: »
    So I'm not supposed to insult other posters, while my honesty is not only questioned but completely rejected. That's an insult to me. Because I am an honest person, and I find it insulting to have my honesty questioned, especially by sarcastic people who try to tear down and make me back down from the truth.

    You start with what appears to be a lie. I looked at your posts, it seems you just go around needling people, and being nasty at a low level. I seriously am in doubt of your ability to experience sadness, and I think that was sarcastic. I do not comprehend Irish sarcasism, I personally don't care for it, it comes across as amaturish and over-reaching one's abilities to me. Sarcastic people usually are sad, but have a hard time feeling genuine emotions. Either way, I don't understand the opening line. If you are trying to say you think I am sad, I will ask you to refrain from such comments, as I will state my feelings for myself, whilst you have the right to state your own feelings.

    Your interests are booze and hookers. Oh nice. Yet you think you live in a wonderful society that abhors rape. Why don't you try finding out how many "hookers" as you call them are victims of sexual assault. That called hypocracy.

    I don't need to get out more, I've met plenty of people in Ireland, from all walks of life. I've spent a lot of time there and have a lot of family there. My experiences are what they are, and anyone who asks me to justify myself, and proove that I know enough Irish people to make this statement, is wrong. I don't have to justify anything. I have to right to state what I've experienced whether you can handle it or not.

    I read this in the voice of Woody Allen.
    It really improves it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Vourney


    mikom wrote: »
    I read this in the voice of Woody Allen.
    It really improves it.

    How old are you? Are you a child?
    Why did you hide your avatar? Was that supposed to be bluto from popeye?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,607 ✭✭✭pah


    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/no-one-was-ever-in-any-danger-of-being-raped-you-cant-get-raped-by-a-joke-2614952.html
    FEWER than one in five of the respondents in our poll think the gardai in the "rape tape" incident should be sacked and prosecuted. The vast majority favour the mildest punishment that was offered to them as an option, which is that the men should be reprimanded and then retrained.

    It provides more evidence that the Irish public are well able to distinguish between a genuine scandal and one which has been whipped up and kept going by the media.

    More evidence, too -- if any were needed -- that the shrill over-reactions of the National Women's Council are becoming more and more counter-productive by the day. People don't like the toxic tone which its grandstanding director Susan McKay has introduced to debates on gender in this country.

    Two words: Lorena Bobbitt. She cut off her husband's little man with a kitchen knife and threw it out of the window of a moving car into a field.

    As you do. Doctors managed to reattach the runaway organ, but not before giving rise to a million jokes. Like the one about how John Wayne Bobbitt was dating a bulimic because they made a perfect match. She couldn't keep anything down and he couldn't keep anything up.

    Does telling that joke imply an inability to empathise with victims of sadistic attacks or eating disorders? Of course not. What happens is you hear about something disturbing, think "ouch" or "yuk" or "eek", then neutralise the discomfort by cracking a joke. That's how jokes work. Nine-tenths of humour is about the darker side of human behaviour. I recently heard a very funny routine from a German comic about the man in Munich who advertised online for a victim that he could kill, dismember and cook. Does that comic believe murdering, cutting up and eating his fellow Germans is intrinsically funny? I'm guessing he doesn't. Nor do I.

    He told the jokes and I laughed at them, because they were funny. There's no rhyme or reason to it. I can't justify that response to someone who would never let go long enough to allow themselves to laugh at inappropriate things. You either get it or you don't.

    Black humour is a particularly common response amongst people who work in jobs where they have to deal with traumatic situations on a daily basis.

    Police officers tell an awful lot of dodgy jokes, but since they often spend their shifts cleaning up the after-effects of appalling violence, my inclination is to give them a fairly generous latitude as to what they should and should not say behind closed doors. Whatever gets them through the night.

    The guards in the now-infamous 'rape tape' scandal had come from yet another fractious protest by the Shell To Sea campaign. For years down in Mayo, the police have been faced with a phalanx of sinister, unpleasant, aggressive people. The adrenalin rushes. So, back in the car, alone, they started riffing with one another to break the tension.

    It's not what you'd call comedy gold, but that doesn't matter, because it wasn't meant for release on DVD. The only reason we heard it was because a video was left accidentally running in the back seat.

    Here's the key issue. Does hearing something less than admirable from the lips of an otherwise exemplary individual invalidate what it is about them which commanded respect in the first place? My position would be that it doesn't. A Nobel Peace Prize winner could repeat the joke about the two Palestinian fathers looking at pictures of their suicide-bombing sons and saying wistfully "ah, they blow up so fast these days", and still be a paragon of compassion and sensitivity. It doesn't mean he has no feeling for the victims of terrorism.

    Professional hysterics such as the National Women's Council, an organisation which gets shriller and sillier by the day, leapt upon the tape as evidence that the guards are insensitive to rape victims, but it's only proof of something sinister if you've already made up your mind that it is. If that's what you want to think anyway.

    Which is why I don't believe a word of it when the various bandwagon-jumpers insist they were shocked/disturbed/horrified /add your own cliche. If anything, they were gleefully delighted at getting something juicy to use against people they regard as their ideological foes.

    Fair play to them for that. It was a hell of a coup. But it's not going to change what I think of the guards. I'll judge police officers, those in this instance included, on how they deal with real victims of serious crime, rather than imaginary victims who never existed because they were only the punchline of a joke.

    Isn't that the central fact here, after all? Nothing actually happened to anyone. No one got raped. No one was ever in any danger of being raped. You can't get raped by a joke. Nothing untoward was even said to those women.

    Susan McKay, director of the National Women's Council, predictably tried to suggest that there was some connection between the tape and the plight of actual rape victims in Mayo. "How are they going to feel about going to the guards when those guards are maybe laughing behind their hands at them or regarding them as being somehow ridiculous or pathetic or dirty?" she demanded to know. To which one can only reply: Yes, it would be reprehensible -- if that was what had happened. But it didn't.

    There were no rape victims involved in this incident whatsoever. None. Much less any who were laughed at for being "dirty" or "pathetic". The only rape victims were fictional ones invented to score a point, to ratchet up the outrage, to maximise hostility towards police officers who could be doing a fantastic job for the people of Mayo, for all that any of the denouncers knew or cared, but who had dared to utter a tasteless joke in private.

    These periodic witch hunts really do have to stop. It's getting out of hand. First the whispers start on Twitter, then the phone-in shows get involved. Before you know it, the mobs are surging through the streets holding aloft flaming torches and calling for heads to roll. It's so childish and needy. I'm upset, give me a candy bar. Cue attention-seeking foot-stamping. It makes for an atmosphere of timidity and self-censorship, not openness and honesty.

    All the more important in that climate for both sides to be heard. As it was, RTE's Miriam O'Callaghan gave McKay a farcically easy time on Prime Time last Tuesday whilst she went off one of her periodic paranoid monologues. O'Callaghan didn't ask McKay to justify a single statement. Not so much as: "Come on, Susan, have you never said something among friends that you'd rather wasn't repeated in public because it wouldn't make you look so saintly?"

    Surely we all have if we're honest? When McKay said the men should be suspended pending an inquiry, Miriam still didn't bat an eyelid.

    Suspended? For telling a joke? Seriously? If that's the kind of country they want to live in, count me out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Vourney wrote: »
    How old are you? Are you a child?

    A guard wouldn't ask you that.



    Vourney wrote: »
    Why did you hide your avatar? Was that supposed to be bluto from popeye?

    Blink again.
    It's there, always has been.

    Yes bluto AKA brutus is the avatar, as supplied by the good people of boards.ie


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Excuse me, I never said I was sad! You'll note that I didn't say "it saddens me.."
    Also, my interests aren't beers & hookers, they're booze, blackjack, and hookers - there's a big difference. Without the blackjack, how are you supposed to afford all the booze & hookers?

    Didn't think of that, did you smarty pants?


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