Labour the most popular

OPENROAD · 11-06-2010 1:59am

starbelgrade wrote: »

Regardless of this, FG are the party that f*cked up a golden opportunity to actually use the good economic times & money to do something worthwhile with the country, rather than p*ss all the benefits down the swanny.

The simple fact is, that it's time for a change.

As I said don't get me wrong, can't stand FF, but as if you say, concerns were raised about the property boom but on the otherhand policy was to reform stamp duty, you can see how that is a bit confusing.

As for the here and now, yes we need a change, but as yet, I have yet to hear of anything that gives me confidence that a change for changes sake will improve things significantly.

starbelgrade · 11-06-2010 1:59am

The_Minister wrote: »

You mean FF right?

Ooops! Yes.

KrazeeEyezKilla · 11-06-2010 2:00am

I don't get the "we're doomed" comments. How would cutting Public Sector pay create jobs? If anything it would mean less money in the local economy going into the private sector. FF have kept themselves and their supporters who caused the mess shielded as much as possible and it's there that the cuts should be made.

Pride Fighter · 11-06-2010 2:04am

The_Minister wrote: »

It's a well-respected poll.

However, the results are altered because it excludes the undecideds - that means that a large amount FF and FG voters could have decided not to vote in the next election, and it would give the same pattern as this (they go down, and proportionally the other parties rise).

It's more likely there has been an actually swing to Labour though, as then Sinn Fein should have gone up as well, but tbh I think it could be a rogue poll.

Its quite likely that it is a rogue poll. Next 3 or 4 polls will show if it is or not.

epgc3fyqirnbsx · 11-06-2010 2:07am

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote: »

I don't get the "we're doomed" comments. How would cutting Public Sector pay create jobs? If anything it would mean less money in the local economy going into the private sector. FF have kept themselves and their supporters who caused the mess shielded as much as possible and it's there that the cuts should be made.

All true. But the biggest problem in the public sector is that you cannot be fired.
In times like these we need efficiency and if you cannot perform to standards then you're not good enough.
I'd much prefer to see someone on the dole if it meant someone better could be doing that job when we are all paying for it. Thats just common sense.

The_Minister · 11-06-2010 2:08am

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote: »

I don't get the "we're doomed" comments. How would cutting Public Sector pay create jobs? If anything it would mean less money in the local economy going into the private sector. FF have kept themselves and their supporters who caused the mess shielded as much as possible and it's there that the cuts should be made.

Every penny spent on public sector wages is a penny that:

(1) Is not spent on public services.
(2) Has to be taken from the private citizen.

As well as that, most of the wages are now being paid for by borrowing.

Why should private citizens have to trump up?

Besides, it's their own fault. In a sensible world, we would have had mass-layoffs in administration roles in the HSE, and the removal of job-for-life from numerous sectors of the public service; instead the unions chose pay cuts over any layoffs, and that is what they got.

I'd rather fire some of the people in the public service without jobs, I have family in the public service (and they work damn hard), but cuts have to be made, and if the unions choose to apply the principle of 'solidarity' and all suffer together, so be it.

Mike 1972 · 11-06-2010 7:18am

Cant believe noones pasted this yet

super_furry · 11-06-2010 7:42am

The_Minister wrote: »

Every penny spent on public sector wages is a penny that:

(1) Is not spent on public services.

Huh? Public services like hospitals? The gardai? The fire service? Schools?

_sparkie_ · 11-06-2010 7:53am

super_furry wrote: »

Huh? Public services like hospitals? The gardai? The fire service? Schools?

i know. what the minister wants is a group of large robots who will operate all these services for free. i dont think he understands that when you provide services to people you need somebody to work at providing those services.
i dont know about the rest of you but i much prefer the public system to the private system like them have in america.

Trashbat · 11-06-2010 8:59am

eoin wrote: »

Labour want to reverse the levies applied to our bloated and inefficient public service and instead increase income tax across the board; thereby further hitting the private sector who have already taken an almighty hammering in pay. Those of us who still have jobs of course. That's reason enough for me to ensure I don't vote for them.

Comment section of dailymail.co.uk is thaddaway =========>

But seriously, do you have a link to any policy or press release stating this?

While Labour amy have a commitment to public sector, this in no way means they will be doing this at the direct expense of private sector workers. Everybody in the country, regadrless of party, knows the sweet deal the publis sector is on, and Labour are not going to undertake any silly policies bacause of mistaken ideology. The Stickies are getting moderate in their old age.

moonpurple · 11-06-2010 9:11am

dilemma for labour how many candidates to run in each area.....landslide or dilute the vote

big call:cool:

parker kent · 11-06-2010 9:36am

OPENROAD wrote: »

Why is it that nobody was raising concerns regarding the Economic policies 4 or 5 years ago??

FFS rents on Grafton Street were higher than that of New Bond Street in London at one stage!!

We seemed to be building on every bit of green space available at the time, why were their no calls of is this level of development sustainable?

Why were their calls for stamp duty to be lowered further rather than actually raising it?

Fine Gael were one of the chief cheerleaders for lowering stamp duty too. In part, their policy on stamp duty before the last election led to Fianna Fail caving in and giving into public demand.

Sadly public opinion and opposition parties self-interest will always mean that short term policies are implemented. Can you imagine the uproar if FF had started raising taxes on property and the other myriad of policies that would have made economic sense?

People now are talking the talk, but there would have been bedlam if the government had made the decisions that they really should have made. The 6one news, boards etc would have been full of people moaning about how prosperous we are and how they should be more generous. Just look at what happened Charlie McCreevy when he raised property taxes in a budget a few years ago.

Whoever is in power, (FF, FG or Labour it does not really matter) will always make the populist decisions as they want to stay in power.

Dyr · 11-06-2010 9:41am

*checks under bed for reds*

Eoin · 11-06-2010 10:14am

Trashbat wrote: »

Comment section of dailymail.co.uk is thaddaway =========>
.

Thanks for that sage advice. However that is, in fact, just a scrollbar.

Trashbat wrote: »

But seriously, do you have a link to any policy or press release stating this?

While Labour amy have a commitment to public sector, this in no way means they will be doing this at the direct expense of private sector workers. Everybody in the country, regadrless of party, knows the sweet deal the publis sector is on, and Labour are not going to undertake any silly policies bacause of mistaken ideology. The Stickies are getting moderate in their old age.

Sorry, it was a radio interview - Matt Cooper I think. Labour spokesman said they were opposed to the public sector levies and were in favour of increasing income tax across the board instead. I don't think that Labour will take the strong stance that is required with the unions.

Jazzy · 11-06-2010 10:27am

all Irish political parties can suck my fat sweaty knob

Min · 11-06-2010 10:51am

Labour - just criticise everyone else but have no policies = popularity rise.

They have yet to announce how they would do anything different policy wise, FF and the Greens unpopular but making the hard decisions whether we like them or not, FG announcing policies with some of them unpopular so they have taken a hit.
Meanwhile Labour, all talk and no policy.

The_Minister · 11-06-2010 11:40am

super_furry wrote: »

Huh? Public services like hospitals? The gardai? The fire service? Schools?

_sparkie_ wrote: »

i know. what the minister wants is a group of large robots who will operate all these services for free. i dont think he understands that when you provide services to people you need somebody to work at providing those services.
i dont know about the rest of you but i much prefer the public system to the private system like them have in america.

Firstly, I would support the use of computers to make the sure that the public services are run as efficiently as possible, so I would support more automation of public services. I am not a luddite.

Secondly, I know that you have to pay people to do a job when you are providing public services. However, the more you pay them, the larger their perks, the less their hours, the slower their work pace, the less services are provided.
For instance, which is better for the public - 40 people on a salery of €62,500 or 50 people on €50,000?
Assuming you can attract candidates of equal ability on those saleries, more services are delivered for the same amount of money.

And that ignores the black holes that are the paid jobless in the HSE.

conorhal · 11-06-2010 11:41am

starbelgrade wrote: »

Well, the last time Labour were in government - albeit a rainbow government - there was economic growth in the country of a level never seen before, not to mention the huge social reform that went in hand with it.

Naaa. The rainbow government swept in on the back of the dot com bubble. I'd have thought by now we would have learned a lesson about attributing fiscal growth to ANY government. Parties of all spectrums have shown to be long on spending promises and short on revenue generation. FF returned to power at the end of the dot com bust and simply jumped on board the next financial pyramid scheme that was in the works, as eager to spend the revenue it produced as pretty much any government would.
The left, and Gilmore in particular are likely to pay the price for success. This poll bump comes on the back of a promise to restore pay and conditions to the public sector, and as we know, 350,000 PS workers have always been the largest voting bloc with the highest turnout at election time (and the most self intrested, they voted FF as long as the gravy train was still on the rails, which is why the chancers are now jumping aboard for the Labor gravy train that's pulling into the station), so either Gilmore will have to pander to his constituency and bankrupt the country with a 20bn bailout of the public sector (roughly the cost of bailing out Anglo, except on an annual and ongoing basis) or he will have to buckle to realpolitik, and piss off his base in the same manner that the greens have done. Ideological politics, I’m afraid, only work in opposition.

The_Minister · 11-06-2010 11:48am

Trashbat wrote: »

Comment section of dailymail.co.uk is thaddaway =========>

But seriously, do you have a link to any policy or press release stating this?

While Labour amy have a commitment to public sector, this in no way means they will be doing this at the direct expense of private sector workers. Everybody in the country, regadrless of party, knows the sweet deal the publis sector is on, and Labour are not going to undertake any silly policies bacause of mistaken ideology. The Stickies are getting moderate in their old age.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0517/thefrontline.html
Watch this (second part about the savings). EDIT: From 30:00 onwards, he gets bad around 35:00 (EDIT: Wrong episode - wait a sec)
Howlin refuses to name a single cut because at the moment Labour are playing the populist card to the utmost, and making sure they don't suggest that anyone anywhere has to be cut.

Labour gets are large amount of money from the public sector trade unions.
They aren't as close as they were, but they are still tied in quite tightly.

Labour never really got the vote of huge swathes of the public service - that always went to Fianna Fail - and this is their chance to get a vote which they have considered for decades to be rightfully theirs.

The_Minister · 11-06-2010 11:56am

Pride Fighter wrote: »

A Labour minister for finance was creating 1,000 jobs a week while finance minister between 1994-1997. Labour know how to create private sector jobs.

They got lucky - that change was coming before they ever got into government.

conorhal · 11-06-2010 12:01pm

The_Minister wrote: »

They got lucky - that change was coming before they ever got into government.

Indeed. A minister for finance COUNTS the cash that the private sector creates and tries to figure how to bilk more cash from them or how to use it to buy more votes.

Attributing job creation to a minister of finance is a bit like attributing rainfall to a weatherman.....

PeterIanStaker · 11-06-2010 12:47pm

I don't think anyone can rectify the current mess. Its like stopping an oil tanker - it wont happen straight away, and when it does stop, you're miles from where you think you are.

Plus, these polls usually add up to 109% or something and the office juniors in the Indo have to say FF.

Also, it doesnt matter a **** who's in charge because in about four months we'll be worse than Greece.

Killer Pigeon · 11-06-2010 12:50pm

I wonder if the Irish Labour Party will turn out a bit like the British Labour Party when they get into government

Killer Pigeon · 11-06-2010 12:52pm

thetonynator wrote: »

Basically we're all fu*ked if there was an election in the morning. :eek:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0610/politics.html

What d'you mean we're all ****ed. What's your problem with a liberal party finally getting the majority in Irish politics.

Killer Pigeon · 11-06-2010 12:54pm

Looks like our next taoiseach will be a former communist.

FlutterinBantam · 11-06-2010 1:23pm

Jazzy wrote: »

all Irish political parties can suck my fat sweaty knob

Kudos for that post there pal, excellent demonstration of the taxpayer's distaste of what has gone on for the last ten years.

However.....

Those of us who take a bit of an interest in these things will have noted the obfuscations and evasion of definite policy statements from Mr Gilmore and Ms Burton and the seeming lack of will to tackle the public service issues.

Therefore while i am certainly not an FF supporter I certainly wouldn't like Lab. to be anywhere near the levers of power at this juncture.

Gilmore comes across to me as a sound bite specialist who wouldn't cut it when the hard decisions have to be made and axe has to be wielded.

Nodin · 11-06-2010 2:44pm

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I wonder if the Irish Labour Party will turn out a bit like the British Labour Party when they get into government

Considering they were like "New Labour" long before New Labour, there is that possibility....there has been a shift to the left in it over a few years though. Its hard to think of anything more cynical than Dickie Spring and his about face.....

Killer Pigeon · 11-06-2010 2:49pm

I know this might seem a little taboo in politics but has anyone every considered ... should I say it? OK, I will ... ANARCHY?

Nodin · 11-06-2010 2:58pm

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I know this might seem a little taboo in politics but has anyone every considered ... should I say it? OK, I will ... ANARCHY?

With the kibbutz type thing? Yeah - it would never work. Remember, we live in a country that would have built a shopping centre and apartments on the hill of tara if somebody had thought there was a few quid in it. It's like that poem by yeats.

"What need you, being come to sense,
But fumble in a greasy till
And add the halfpence to the pence
And prayer to shivering prayer, until
You have dried the marrow from the bone;
For men were born to pray and save;
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave."

Killer Pigeon · 11-06-2010 2:59pm

Gilmore to Labour Party, they're getting quiet optimistic:

http://tinyurl.com/359ekhw

Labour the most popular

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