Dublin to Sligo rail line !

pauld1 · 14-11-2010 7:10pm #1

hi everyone

anyone no why they have put the comuter instead of the comfortable iner city train on that line on a friday anymore ? its not fair really when your payin extra on a friday for a worse train !!

Victor · 14-11-2010 7:26pm

I'm not sure of the specific departure you are referring to, but they don't have enough intercity trains in service to cover all operations, so some services aren't running as they should. That is unlikely to improve before the middle of 2010, when the last of the 22000-class trains are delivered.

foggy_lad · 14-11-2010 7:27pm

pauld1 wrote: »

hi everyone

anyone no why they have put the comuter instead of the comfortable iner city train on that line on a friday anymore ? its not fair really when your payin extra on a friday for a worse train !!

they dont have enough of the 6car sets of the new trains to supply a proper service and to allow for demand they put on a commuter train on an intercity route but i suppose it is better than bus transfers but not much better.

i am just waiting for someone to be blinded by shattering glass from the overhead parcel shelves on the new trains and commuter trains as people are placing very heavy luggage on these shelves that are only designed for very light bags breifcases umbrellas etc but what else are people to do as there is not adequate luggage space on the new trains and none on the commuters

foggy_lad · 14-11-2010 7:29pm

Victor wrote: »

I'm not sure of the specific departure you are referring to, but they don't have enough intercity trains in service to cover all operations, so some services aren't running as they should. That is unlikely to improve before the middle of 2010, when the last of the 22000-class trains are delivered.

do you mean the middle of 2012? irish rail are not expecting any deliveries of 22000s until late 2011 afaik

CIE · 14-11-2010 7:30pm

Victor wrote: »

I'm not sure of the specific departure you are referring to, but they don't have enough intercity trains in service to cover all operations, so some services aren't running as they should. That is unlikely to improve before the middle of 2010, when the last of the 22000-class trains are delivered.

Yup...they're letting perfectly good Mark 3s rot in the meantime.

dowlingm · 15-11-2010 8:30pm

CIE wrote: »

Yup...they're letting perfectly good Mark 3s rot in the meantime.

Oh, I'm pretty sure by now they aren't perfectly good, not under IE's Care and Maintenance regime. It's like storage but it's... rustage.

CIE · 16-11-2010 4:59am

dowlingm wrote: »

Oh, I'm pretty sure by now they aren't perfectly good, not under IE's Care and Maintenance regime. It's like storage but it's... rustage.

Yes, letting them rot as I said. They were good enough to replace the Mark 4s for a time when they were investigating how to make the Mark 4s more like the Mark 3s though. Of course, comparing them to the Cravens whose age was twice the "retirement" age of these Mark 3s...either way, it would cost the public far less to get the Mark 3s back into service, even with necessary repair.

Run_to_da_hills · 16-11-2010 5:48am

CIE wrote: »

Yup...they're letting perfectly good Mark 3s rot in the meantime.

If they were to use the MK3's on this route they would have to recommission the 071's or 181's back to passenger use as the 201's would be too heavy for the Sligo line, This would attract a large number of regular anoraks, people would then be complaining that there would not be enough seats.

Wasn't there already two sets of 20,000 badly damaged, one from a derailment at the TCD and another one in transit to the country from Korea, have these been repaired yet?

L1011 · 16-11-2010 8:04am

I thought the 201s were OK to Sligo now that the Shannon bridge was replaced? The 'rusty' 22000 that came from Korea was rejected and a replacement is coming in the next batch.

The Stroller · 16-11-2010 8:19am

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If they were to use the MK3's on this route they would have to recommission the 071's or 181's back to passenger use as the 201's would be too heavy for the Sligo line, This would attract a large number of regular anoraks, people would then be complaining that there would not be enough seats.

Wasn't there already two sets of 20,000 badly damaged, one from a derailment at the TCD and another one in transit to the country from Korea, have these been repaired yet?

IE's "logic" for storing Mark 3 stock and 201 locomotives was the the 22000 class is cheaper to use.

Regarding the 22000 sets. There are three sets damaged. One 6 car damaged in the depot incident and the two damaged in transit coming from Korea. The 6 car will be about 6 to 12 months before returning to service. The two 3 cars set were stripped to the body shells in Korea and are being rebuilt and will arrive back when the next batch of 22000 class are delivered in 2011.

ClovenHoof · 16-11-2010 3:17pm

CIE wrote: »

Yes, letting them rot as I said. They were good enough to replace the Mark 4s for a time when they were investigating how to make the Mark 4s more like the Mark 3s though. Of course, comparing them to the Cravens whose age was twice the "retirement" age of these Mark 3s...either way, it would cost the public far less to get the Mark 3s back into service, even with necessary repair.

Do they even have to locos to haul them anymore?

Cookie_Monster · 16-11-2010 3:21pm

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Do they even have to locos to haul them anymore?

18 071s and 34 201s (and 171 is still just about working)

Zebra3 · 16-11-2010 3:25pm

Does anyone know why the time keeping of the trains from Sligo is so poor cos it seems to constantly delay the commuter services from Maynooth? :mad:

KC61 · 16-11-2010 3:36pm

Currently the leaf fall is causing massive problems on that route, qwith serious adhesion difficulties.

Run_to_da_hills · 16-11-2010 3:45pm

KC61 wrote: »

Currently the leaf fall is causing massive problems on that route, with serious adhesion difficulties.

Most of these problems would be in acceleration and on inclines and stopping, surely if they can fit sand dispensers on locos and EMU / DMU sets they could do same with leaf blowers.

KC61 · 16-11-2010 3:46pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Most of these problems would be in acceleration and inclines, surely if they can fit sand dispensers on locos and EMU / DMU sets they could also fit leaf blowers.

Maybe you'd like to share that advice with all the other railway companies that suffer the same problem?

Zebra3 · 16-11-2010 6:34pm

KC61 wrote: »

Currently the leaf fall is causing massive problems on that route, qwith serious adhesion difficulties.

So what excuse do they use in the summer?

KC61 · 16-11-2010 7:14pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

So what excuse do they use in the summer?

Well the other problem is that it is primarily a single track route. Virtually every Dublin-Sligo train has to pass three other trains going in the opposite direction at Boyle, Edgeworthstown and Maynooth. If any of these are late for any reason then there will be knock-on delays. There is some recovery time built into the schedule to deal with this but it isn't always enough. The 1500 and 1700 ex-Sligo both have four trains to pass due to the additional 1600 ex-Connolly and have therefore more chance of being delayed.

Losty Dublin · 16-11-2010 7:17pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

18 071s and 34 201s (and 171 is still just about working)

It isn't just a case of running the 201 class loco's from the word go. Most drivers from Sligo are not trained to drive a 201 not to mention the time needed to sort out it's specific route knowledge for them. There is also the issue of 201 class locos not allowed on the Sligo Quay siding should the need to shunt a carriage set into same to free up a platform in the station.

By the time this would be sorted out (As well as finding and training guards to work the line and the Mark 3 brake vans again; they are air braked and they behave differently) and passing out 201's for normal service on the line, the remaining 22000 class sets would have replaced the few 29000's left on the Sligo services. It would be quicker to obtain 071's but they are tied up on freight and PW workings these days plus Sligo drivers would need refresher and the guard and braking issues on Mark 3's again comes into play.

Cookie_Monster · 16-11-2010 7:50pm

I'm just answering the question that was asked re what locos are left...

Several of the 201s are in storage also and would take some time to get back into traffic.

Losty Dublin · 16-11-2010 7:52pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I'm just answering the question that was asked re what locos are left...

Several of the 201s are in storage also and would take some time to get back into traffic.

Sorry, good man. I was just adding to it

Victor · 16-11-2010 11:07pm

The trick would be to put Mark 3s + whatever loco onto a line where there is the least amount of change needed. Making the peak hour Heuston-Limerick trains (or similar) Mark 3s would mean that the 22000s used for that work could be cascaded to other routes to replace 29000s and buses. The 29000s could then be put back on commuter work.

Zebra3 wrote: »

Does anyone know why the time keeping of the trains from Sligo is so poor cos it seems to constantly delay the commuter services from Maynooth? :mad:

There is also the matter that there isn't much capacity to recover from problem, especially in the evening peak. As it is single track, each train needs to pass the crossing train at a specific time. If it doesn't, there is a knock-on for a large number of other trains.

Transportuser09 · 16-11-2010 11:42pm

Victor wrote: »

The trick would be to put Mark 3s + whatever loco onto a line where there is the least amount of change needed. Making the peak hour Heuston-Limerick trains (or similar) Mark 3s would mean that the 22000s used for that work could be cascaded to other routes to replace 29000s and buses. The 29000s could then be put back on commuter work.

There is also the matter that there isn't much capacity to recover from problem, especially in the evening peak. As it is single track, each train needs to pass the crossing train at a specific time. If it doesn't, there is a knock-on for a large number of other trains.

That would a reasonable solution in the short term. Better still to keep them on a route like Galway or Athlone where a runaround can be achieved, as opposed to a location like Limerick where an extra locomotive would be needed to release the train. However it would be best to restrict them to a specific route so that shunting staff/guards can be concentrated in these areas, rather than have mark 3 sets turn up willy-nilly about the system.

Losty Dublin · 16-11-2010 11:58pm

Victor wrote: »

The trick would be to put Mark 3s + whatever loco onto a line where there is the least amount of change needed. Making the peak hour Heuston-Limerick trains (or similar) Mark 3s would mean that the 22000s used for that work could be cascaded to other routes to replace 29000s and buses. The 29000s could then be put back on commuter work.

There is also the matter that there isn't much capacity to recover from problem, especially in the evening peak. As it is single track, each train needs to pass the crossing train at a specific time. If it doesn't, there is a knock-on for a large number of other trains.

Victor, I agree with you but it's far easier said that done. The only mainline diagrams that require little change are Dublin-Cork and Dublin-Belfast; to drop a set onto another specific route means a lot of shuffling of fleet that such a set will fill into over the course of the week. This is why Mark 2's worked one specified train in and out a day on the Sligo and the Heuston-Athlone rush hour train saw carriages last of all; it was a trip on one line only.

It's not to say it can't be done but it's a headache the fleet manager has yet to solve until he gets his shiny clean 22000's back

KC61 · 17-11-2010 11:33am

To be honest the only place that Mark 3 operations would fit would be either:
1) Dublin/Cork standby
2) Dublin/Limerick
3) Early morning Athlone or Galway to Dublin and evening return

Otherwise it would not work as they cannot meet the performance standards of the 22k and therefore the running times and crossings at passing loops on the single track routes would not be achievable.

Dublin to Sligo rail line !

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