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Driving instructor taking advantage?

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  • 15-02-2013 9:24pm
    #1
    The Jammy dodger
    Registered Users Posts: 651 ✭✭✭


    Hi. My mother in law thinks my driving instructor is taking advantage of me and trying to do me out of money.

    The driving instructor is not stamping my log book every lesson I take. I have taken 3 lessons so far and he would only stamp for one lesson. Am I being done out of money and taken advantage of here?

    I handed him my log book and asked him to stamp it for lesson number 2, he replied that I did not have enough skills to warrant a stamped lesson number two. Does all this sound correct?


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  • Options
    #2
    The_Nipper_One
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭The_Nipper_One


    1 lesson = 1 stamp regardless as far as I know.

    Q. Does the ADI stamp the logbook even if the learner is not able to do some of the requirements of the lesson?

    A. Yes, The fact that a learner does not meet some of the expected outcomes should then be recorded in the feedback section of the logbook and that is what is being stamped and signed by the ADI.

    SOURCE


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    #3
    MascotDec85
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 1,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭MascotDec85


    It depends. The RSA recommend 3 hrs of practice before doing EDT1 (page 8 of the info booklet). They also recommend 3 hrs of practice between each EDT lesson although EDT 2 usually follows on straight from 1.

    The question is are you out driving on roads so that EDT2 can be delivered and are you insured on another car apart from your instructors?


  • Options
    #4
    fizififi
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭fizififi


    The Jammy dodger wrote: »
    Hi. My mother in law thinks my driving instructor is taking advantage of me and trying to do me out of money.

    The driving instructor is not stamping my log book every lesson I take. I have taken 3 lessons so far and he would only stamp for one lesson. Am I being done out of money and taken advantage of here?

    I handed him my log book and asked him to stamp it for lesson number 2, he replied that I did not have enough skills to warrant a stamped lesson number two. Does all this sound correct?
    You will get your logbook stamped when you have the required skills to pass each lesson, even if that means paying for more than 1 tuition session per EDT lesson


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    #5
    ADIDriving
    Registered Users Posts: 834 ✭✭✭ADIDriving


    It is not your instructors decision wether you do an EDT lesson or not. If you ask for an EDT lesson you should get a stamp at the end of that hour. If your driving is not good enough to begin the next lesson, then the instructor should explain that to you and convince you to do a practice lesson.


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    #6
    Motor-Ed
    Registered Users Posts: 348 ✭✭Motor-Ed


    I think you should be having this discussion with your Instructor. You are not supplying enough information for others to give ACCURATE advice. As asked are you just driving off lessons, what,s your ability at this point etc etc


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  • Options
    #7
    J_R
    Registered Users Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭J_R


    Hi,

    In a word, Yes.

    The_Nipper_One is correct. Irrespective of the outcome of a lesson he must stamp the book. However, more important, he must inform the RSA that the lesson has been completed..

    Sign in (if you have not already done so) and check here :- My EDT

    He can recommend more lessons but as per RSA directions he MUST stamp the book/upload to RSA website.

    If he does not, inform the RSA, let them sort him out.

    Also the only criteria necessary to do, in your case, lesson 4 is that the previous three lessons have been stamped - irrespective of your level of competency.
    b) by substituting for Regulation 4(3) the following:

    “(3) A person may only undergo each of lessons 2 to 8 of Essential Driver Training for Car Drivers if he or she holds a logbook issued to him or her on which an instructor has signed and stamped the pages relating to the immediately preceding lesson as set out in the Schedule.
    (3A) A person may only undergo any of lessons 9 to 12 of Essential Driver Training for Car Drivers if he or she holds a logbook issued to him or her on which an instructor has signed and stamped the pages relating to lesson 8.”.
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/si/0004.html
    Original
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/si/0173.html

    The law is twelve (12) mandatory one hour lessons. Not a multiple of twelve, depending on the morality of the instructor.

    However, to become a safe competent driver and subsequently passing the test it is necessary to have forty, fifty perhaps sixty hours of a mixture of tuition and private practice driving.


  • Options
    #8
    MascotDec85
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 1,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭MascotDec85


    J_R wrote: »
    Hi,

    In a word, Yes.

    The_Nipper_One is correct. Irrespective of the outcome of a lesson he must stamp the book. However, more important, he must inform the RSA that the lesson has been completed..

    Sign in (if you have not already done so) and check here :- My EDT

    He can recommend more lessons but as per RSA directions he MUST stamp the book/upload to RSA website.

    If he does not, inform the RSA, let them sort him out.

    Also the only criteria necessary to do, in your case, lesson 4 is that the previous three lessons have been stamped - irrespective of your level of competency.


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/si/0004.html
    Original
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/si/0173.html

    The law is twelve (12) mandatory one hour lessons. Not a multiple of twelve, depending on the morality of the instructor.

    However, to become a safe competent driver and subsequently passing the test it is necessary to have forty, fifty perhaps sixty hours of a mixture of tuition and private practice driving.
    This is a very simplistic and text book view of the situation.

    The OP hasn't told us what he/she is capable of doing in a car, only the number of stamps received. If, for example, the OP is struggling to even change gear I'd like to know how the ADI is supposed to deliver EDT2 never mind EDT4.

    IMO, and that may go against statute, you cannot carte blanche state 4 lessons equals 4 stamps. There are far too many variables regarding individual ability etc. what one pupil will be capable of another won't and to carry on regardless delivering further EDT lessons when a pupil may not have enough of a handling to proceed without potentially complicating the issue further.

    An honest discussion between pupil and ADI should take place if/when a pupil is not competent enough to move on. When this is the case I've never had any issue or disagreement. If the pupil is honest with themselves they'll know this course is the best.

    Bottom line is that pupils should be taught at a level that suits their ability.


  • Options
    #9
    J_R
    Registered Users Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭J_R


    MascotDec85 wrote: »
    This is a very simplistic and text book view of the situation.

    Hi,

    That is because I have always attempted to keep things simple.

    At the end of a lesson, irrespective of the outcome the ADI stamps the book as per:- The following was emailed to all ADI's following a series of nationwide meetings between driving instructors and the RSA

    I also recorded an RSA - ADI meeting where clearly stated, "logbook should be stamped at the end of a lesson irregardless whither objective reached or not "

    The ADI can comment in the logbook for example "Objective not reached - strongly advise further lessons", but he must stamp and not hold the pupil to ransom.

    Agree an honest discussion may be called for, the instructor can strongly recommend further lessons but he must stamp irrespective of the outcome.

    If the ADI refuses to stamp then my advice would be to contact the RSA, giving your name, learner permit number, DOB, ADI name and number, lesson number and date conducted. Have them sort it out.


  • Options
    #10
    MascotDec85
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 1,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭MascotDec85


    J_R wrote: »

    Hi,

    That is because I have always attempted to keep things simple.

    At the end of a lesson, irrespective of the outcome the ADI stamps the book as per:- The following was emailed to all ADI's following a series of nationwide meetings between driving instructors and the RSA

    I also recorded an RSA - ADI meeting where clearly stated, "logbook should be stamped at the end of a lesson irregardless whither objective reached or not "

    The ADI can comment in the logbook for example "Objective not reached - strongly advise further lessons", but he must stamp and not hold the pupil to ransom.

    Agree an honest discussion may be called for, the instructor can strongly recommend further lessons but he must stamp irrespective of the outcome.

    If the ADI refuses to stamp then my advice would be to contact the RSA, giving your name, learner permit number, DOB, ADI name and number, lesson number and date conducted. Have them sort it out.
    I don't think anyone is talking about holding the pupil to ransom. The ADI might not have even attempted to teach the pupil the minimum content required for the 2nd EDT lesson hence no stamp given. If that's the case the ADI is at fault for not stating that at the commencement of the lesson.

    Still more information is required and we should be careful what advice we give when not in full possession of the facts from the OP. The wrong advice could antagonize the situation and that isn't fair all round.


  • Options
    #11
    ManMade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 475 ✭✭ManMade


    The Jammy dodger wrote: »
    Hi. My mother in law thinks my driving instructor is taking advantage of me and trying to do me out of money.

    The driving instructor is not stamping my log book every lesson I take. I have taken 3 lessons so far and he would only stamp for one lesson. Am I being done out of money and taken advantage of here?

    I handed him my log book and asked him to stamp it for lesson number 2, he replied that I did not have enough skills to warrant a stamped lesson number two. Does all this sound correct?
    I'm nearly done my ones now. 10 done. My instructor tried me on with that whole not stamping my log book. Wasn't having it. Especially when he said I'd have to buy more lessons. He never did it but at the start I sort of snuck in "Do you have to pass each lesson or what because the an adi I know said I don't?" By law I they must answer truthfully (Don't quote me on that) similarly they must recommend two weeks between lessons but you can do doubles if you want or one every day for 12 days


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  • Options
    #12
    J_R
    Registered Users Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭J_R


    MascotDec85 wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is talking about holding the pupil to ransom. The ADI might not have even attempted to teach the pupil the minimum content required for the 2nd EDT lesson hence no stamp given. If that's the case the ADI is at fault for not stating that at the commencement of the lesson.

    Still more information is required and we should be careful what advice we give when not in full possession of the facts from the OP. The wrong advice could antagonize the situation and that isn't fair all round.

    Hi,

    If at the end of a lesson the logbook is stamped then the learner has the freedom to move on, try another instructor. If it is not stamped then that lesson is being held to ransom. In the case of the OP, two lessons.

    The law is twelve compulsory lessons. Not thirteen, fourteen or a multiple of twelve but twelve. Driving instructors can not legally force anyone to take more. This right was removed very shortly after the EDT was implemented.

    If at the end of a lesson the learner has not reached the stated objective the reason might be the poor instructional ability of the driving instructor and no fault of the learner. So, a poor instructor can reward himself by forcing more lessons from their pupils. ?. Does not sound fair to me.

    Regards


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