"Would ya not just leave, like?"

IrishExpat · 22-09-2012 1:06pm #1

Apologies to Mods if this is the wrong forum, if so; please move.

Is it just me ... or have the local employment centres (FAS), social welfare offices and others decided to start advocating emigration?

I'm just back in the country; and setting about getting myself up-skilled and taking the self-employment route. I've signed up for a few courses with my local VEC and Enterprise Board, and keeping myself busy; but in practically everyplace I've gone for advice ...

"Ah shure, a young lad like yourself, would you not be better of travelling/in Oz."
"I'd recommend speaking to a EURES advisor."
"Emigration is so much easier now than in my day, what with Ryanair ..."

And signing on for a temporary assistance (not JB), met with the same, "But why did you come home? My nephew is in Canada and there's plenty of work for Irish lads ..."

I'm home, I want to live and work in my own country after a good few years abroad. Didn't particularly want to go in the first place, but that's another story.

Do other nationality's get these not so subtle hints also when looking for assistance? Is this some deep rooted part of the Irish psyche, or am I talking to the wrong people?

Thoughts?

cloptrop · 22-09-2012 1:08pm

Maybe its just you op.

TwoShedsJackson · 22-09-2012 1:09pm

Tell him to pi$$ off to Oz if it's so great then, and you can have his job.

girl2 · 22-09-2012 1:10pm

I see where you're coming from…but a lot of people want to get outta here as quickly as they can…so maybe all these people advising are so used to hearing these sentiments that theyre doing their best to accommodatin people in this mindset??

(hope it all goes well for ya)

IrishExpat · 22-09-2012 1:10pm

cloptrop wrote: »

Maybe its just you op.

Sure a good-looking young buck like myself, they should be doing their best to keep me.

joke

cloptrop · 22-09-2012 1:15pm

These places love to pawn you off to other places or organisations. Theyd love nothing more than have nobody there so they can chat on the phone to their mates all day . Stick at them and push for the course you want . Youll get it .

SEPT 23 1989 · 22-09-2012 1:16pm

You should have told him that you want to stay around and work to contribute to his gold plated pension

22-09-2012 1:19pm

In a way fair play to them, at least they're being honest. When I went into FAS a few years back after dropping out of college they told me to go back to college that I'd be wasting my time with the courses they could offer and I admired the honesty.

ejmaztec · 22-09-2012 1:19pm

IrishExpat wrote: »

Apologies to Mods if this is the wrong forum, if so; please move.

Is it just me ... or have the local employment centres (FAS), social welfare offices and others decided to start advocating emigration?

I'm just back in the country; and setting about getting myself up-skilled and taking the self-employment route. I've signed up for a few courses with my local VEC and Enterprise Board, and keeping myself busy; but in practically everyplace I've gone for advice ...

"Ah shure, a young lad like yourself, would you not be better of travelling/in Oz."
"I'd recommend speaking to a EURES advisor."
"Emigration is so much easier now than in my day, what with Ryanair ..."

And signing on for a temporary assistance (not JB), met with the same, "But why did you come home? My nephew is in Canada and there's plenty of work for Irish lads ..."

I'm home, I want to live and work in my own country after a good few years abroad. Didn't particularly want to go in the first place, but that's another story.

Do other nationality's get these not so subtle hints also when looking for assistance? Is this some deep rooted part of the Irish psyche, or am I talking to the wrong people?

Thoughts?

Their "deciding to start advocating emigration" isn't a recent thing, and has been unwritten Irish government policy since Independence.

IvyTheTerrible · 22-09-2012 1:27pm

If you emigrate, you go off the live register. They love that!

Triangular · 22-09-2012 1:32pm

They care more for the statistics then then people that make them.

ejmaztec · 22-09-2012 1:33pm

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

If you emigrate, you go off the live register. They love that!

..and the politicians start spouting on about the drop in the unemployment figures and how they're doing a great job with all the new jobs found, but they don't own up to those "new" jobs being 12000 miles away. The bull-sh1tting feckers!

washman3 · 22-09-2012 1:38pm

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

If you emigrate, you go off the live register. They love that!

Yes, probably the most important point. the more that emigrate the better the unemployment figures look for the government. they will even claim it to be a success (real facts hidden of course).
And the w##k#r in FAS knows that there is a less likely chance that his job and pension will suffer future cuts.
Sickening,cycnical, but true........:mad:

dj jarvis · 22-09-2012 1:48pm

ejmaztec wrote: »

Their "deciding to start advocating emigration" isn't a recent thing, and has been unwritten Irish government policy since Independence.

FAS or ANCO as they were in the 80's got me and my mates to a "meeting" in the FAS office in bray - they offered us a "grant" for migration to England , gave us maps of London , hostel address and suggested job types and names of employers ( but with no official contact with said company's )

we were all only 17 - they had us on some Micky mouse building course

so in essence they were willing to fling a group of 17 year old's at the mercy of London just to clean up the figures :mad:

nothing has changed - they really just dont give a **** and never have IMO

the "grant " 90 Punts - SCABBY BA"TARDS :mad:

ejmaztec · 22-09-2012 1:58pm

dj jarvis wrote: »

FAS or ANCO as they were in the 80's got a group of me and my mates to a "meeting" in the FAS office in bray - they offered us a "grant" for migration to England , gave us maps of London , hostel address and suggested job types and names of employers ( but with no official contact with said company's )

we were all only 17 - they had us on some Micky mouse building course

so in essence they were willing to fling a group of 17 year old's at the mercy of London just to clean up the figures :mad:

nothing has changed - they really just dont give a **** and never have IMO

the "grant " 90 Punts - SCABBY BA"TARDS :mad:

"Sh1t at creating jobs, brilliant at increasing emigration" should be Ireland's motto.

steve9859 · 22-09-2012 2:03pm

IrishExpat wrote: »

Is it just me ... or have the local employment centres (FAS), social welfare offices and others decided to start advocating emigration?

Are they wrong to suggest there are alternatives to being stuck in Ireland with no job?

Abi · 22-09-2012 2:03pm

Ahh levverrrrr ouuuu

IrishExpat · 22-09-2012 2:14pm

steve9859 wrote: »

Are they wrong to suggest there are alternatives to being stuck in Ireland with no job?

"I came back home to raise crops, and God willing, a family."

Maybe I came home too early, but in fairness the sooner I get a 'tiny' bit of help from someone to get out on my own ... I'm not asking anyone to move mountains, just to find a mere 300-500 euro out of the billions they've thrown away, but I've half raised it by now anyway.

I'm being met with obstacles - FAS local office, you have to be in receipt of social welfare before we can even give you 15 minutes of advice. I do not want to sign on, I'd be happier setting up a small business, and all going well create a job or three.

I've just paid for my ECDL, VEC FETAC course and renewed my Safe Pass out of my own pocket. That's my personal up-skilling budget gone. But that's not my issue ... it's being met with these emigration comments that get me. I emigrated in at the end of '09, which saved them some money over a three year period. Now I'm back and starting to get angry.

Am I over-reacting?

tayto lover · 22-09-2012 2:20pm

When you do get a job and receive your first pay cheque it will then dawn on you exactly what they meant.

Tombi! · 22-09-2012 3:10pm

What FÁS really means is: get educated here, then feck off and get some work experience (because those internships need someone with 5 years experience after all), then you can work in Ireland.

Sir Pompous Righteousness · 22-09-2012 3:20pm

I'm going job hunting in Narnia in January, got me work visa sorted and everything, can't wait. Was in Emerald City in Oz between April and July but there was feck all there. Hope I might have better luck in Narnia.

NegativeCreep · 22-09-2012 3:22pm

Is there really any point in staying in Ireland anyway? I say we all emigrate and set the entire island on fire. It's the only way. I plan to stay here during college and then leave as soon as the opportunity arises.

WoollyRedHat · 22-09-2012 3:25pm

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Is there really any point in staying in Ireland anyway? I say we all emigrate and set the entire island on fire. It's the only way. I plan to stay here during college and then leave as soon as the opportunity arises.

Jesus, NegativeArsonist.

Sir Pompous Righteousness wrote: »

I'm going job hunting in Narnia in January, got me work visa sorted and everything, can't wait. Was in Emerald City in Oz between April and July but there was feck all there. Hope I might have better luck in Narnia.

Is Aslan still about there? And Emerald City, how's the Wizard doing? Or is he dead.

Where To · 22-09-2012 3:26pm

Imagine if no Irish person ever emigrated. Ever.

WoollyRedHat · 22-09-2012 3:28pm

Or if everyone came back for one day. We could turn it into a national holiday and have one big mad session..

Sir Pompous Righteousness · 22-09-2012 3:33pm

Where To wrote: »

Imagine if no Irish person ever emigrated. Ever.

We'd probably have a population near to that of Germany and a population density near to that of Japan.

phasers · 22-09-2012 3:40pm

tell them you're scared of airplanes and foreign people

ejmaztec · 22-09-2012 3:49pm

Where To wrote: »

Imagine if no Irish person ever emigrated. Ever.

The place would survive on cannibalism and fish as there wouldn't be a spare bit of land to grow anything on. There would be huge imports of chianti and fava beans.:(

Abi · 22-09-2012 3:58pm

I wonder if Irish people are the only ones being told they're better off leaving Ireland, or is it anyone who enters their offices.

Tombi! · 22-09-2012 4:01pm

Abi wrote: »

I wonder if Irish people are the only ones being told they're better off leaving Ireland, or is it anyone who enters their offices.

I can see that being a bad idea.
*Polish man enters*
I'm looking for some advice about getting a job
Why don't you feck off out of here and back to yer own country

Abi · 22-09-2012 4:04pm

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

I can see that being a bad idea.
*Polish man enters*
I'm looking for some advice about getting a job
Why don't you feck off out of here and back to yer own country

My point exactly.

Edit: I better add to this, because you've to be very specific about what you mean on these matters. I don't mean for the agencies to suggest the non-nationals to 'go home', I mean would they also advise them to go live in other countries.

PeterStrauss The Second · 22-09-2012 4:08pm

disgraceful approach really in fairness.

Tombi! · 22-09-2012 4:13pm

Abi wrote: »

My point exactly.

Edit: I better add to this, because you've to be very specific about what you mean on these matters. I don't mean for the agencies to suggest the non-nationals to 'go home', I mean would they also advise them to go live in other countries.

Ah no, I got that. But considering the fact that Ireland is part of the EU and Poland is part of it. I pick that. But in either case it really would cause a problem if people from other countries came here and the response was "leave and work somewhere else".

Abi · 22-09-2012 4:33pm

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Ah no, I got that. But considering the fact that Ireland is part of the EU and Poland is part of it. I pick that. But in either case it really would cause a problem if people from other countries came here and the response was "leave and work somewhere else".

You mentioned Poland specifically, not me though, far from it. My way of thinking would be, why the divide in the first place? If they're being given orders to get people off the register, why isn't it across the board?

Getting people off the register is their aim, but they'll only suggest that Irish emigrate in case they're accused of something. I've mentioned the elephant in the room, and don't see the problem with it.

IrishExpat · 22-09-2012 4:36pm

Abi wrote: »

I wonder if Irish people are the only ones being told they're better off leaving Ireland, or is it anyone who enters their offices.

This is what I was getting at, well partly mentioned in my first post.

Just imagine the backlash if a non-national (EU, or otherwise) was given the same 'advice'. "No job's, why not go elsewhere? Flights are cheap enough ..." Straight away the race card would be out.

We'd hear about it as quick as the PC reaction to the FG Councillor in Naas.
NOTE: I'm a massive fan of the EU freedom of travel and work, and I have benefited from it. Just using an example, feel free to disregard it before this thread takes a different turn.

22-09-2012 4:50pm

I think it's silly to have the 'just leave' mentality. I wonder how many people saying that would happily leave their entire life behind to go and live in a new country with possibly a new language, new culture etc.

Moving abroad isn't easy. I've done it loads of times, I'm living abroad now and it's much more taxing than people think. They tend to only see the good parts ("oh, you're living near a beach!", "Booze is cheap there!"), not the crushing loneliness for the first while, the mountains of paperwork/filling in forms, the never seeing your family, the feeling like an idiot because you didn't understand a question, getting used to totally different food, the culture shock, different humour.... it's bloody difficult. Most of the people who think it's easy are people who wouldn't dream of doing it themselves.

Eggy Baby! · 22-09-2012 4:58pm

With all honesty, I got into a FAS course this year to keep me occupied and the waiting time was awful. It took over 5 months I believe. Stuff like that would make you want to emigrate. I was also talking to a middle aged member of the course who said he applied a decade ago!

In the end, I was in the course getting paid rather well so I was pretty happy. I'm younger than most applicants I'd reckon, so that might explain why there was no "you should go to Australia" lark.

Abi · 22-09-2012 5:00pm

IrishExpat wrote: »

This is what I was getting at, well partly mentioned in my first post.

Just imagine the backlash if a non-national (EU, or otherwise) was given the same 'advice'. "No job's, why not go elsewhere? Flights are cheap enough ..." Straight away the race card would be out.

We'd hear about it as quick as the PC reaction to the FG Councillor in Naas.
NOTE: I'm a massive fan of the EU freedom of travel and work, and I have benefited from it. Just using an example, feel free to disregard it before this thread takes a different turn.

We have a pussy government, and it's a free for all. So pussy in fact, that our country would rather rid us of our own than admit making the mistake of putting the same measures that Canada and Australia have in place.

IrishExpat · 22-09-2012 5:02pm

Carolyn Purring Bather wrote: »

I think it's silly to have the 'just leave' mentality. I wonder how many people saying that would happily leave their entire life behind to go and live in a new country with possibly a new language, new culture etc.

Moving abroad isn't easy. I've done it loads of times, I'm living abroad now and it's much more taxing than people think. They tend to only see the good parts ("oh, you're living near a beach!", "Booze is cheap there!"), not the crushing loneliness for the first while, the mountains of paperwork/filling in forms, the never seeing your family, the feeling like an idiot because you didn't understand a question, getting used to totally different food, the culture shock, different humour.... it's bloody difficult. Most of the people who think it's easy are people who wouldn't dream of doing it themselves.

Seconded. I made a massive error of judgement when I left, arriving in Madrid with a few words of Spanish, 300 quid, 2 changes of clothes and no plan for a flat/job etc, but I landed on my feet quick enough.

If I were to go again, I'd do a mountain of research, learn the language at least 3 months before leaving and plan regular flights home 6-8 months in advance and possibly find people before arriving (easy enough with meetup.com etc). Basic ground-work.

That said, it did stand to me.

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy · 22-09-2012 5:14pm

IrishExpat wrote: »

Apologies to Mods if this is the wrong forum, if so; please move.

Is it just me ... or have the local employment centres (FAS), social welfare offices and others decided to start advocating emigration?

I'm just back in the country; and setting about getting myself up-skilled and taking the self-employment route. I've signed up for a few courses with my local VEC and Enterprise Board, and keeping myself busy; but in practically everyplace I've gone for advice ...

"Ah shure, a young lad like yourself, would you not be better of travelling/in Oz."
"I'd recommend speaking to a EURES advisor."
"Emigration is so much easier now than in my day, what with Ryanair ..."

And signing on for a temporary assistance (not JB), met with the same, "But why did you come home? My nephew is in Canada and there's plenty of work for Irish lads ..."

I'm home, I want to live and work in my own country after a good few years abroad. Didn't particularly want to go in the first place, but that's another story.

Do other nationality's get these not so subtle hints also when looking for assistance? Is this some deep rooted part of the Irish psyche, or am I talking to the wrong people?

Thoughts?

There is no secret about it . State sponsered immigration is a public policy and yes FÁS are instructed to advice people to immigrate.

State sponsered immigration is nothing new here. Infact there is some debt forgiveness scheme associated with it.

The theory is Foreign nationals will work for less and in worse jobs.

I am not unemployed ..but i am young i have a University education (which the Govt paid for, well the undergrad part ) nd I have langauges.

If i went to the Govt they would ship me off happily and i would happily go.

It is mad though i have so many skills that i have been approached by foreign interests.

But yes immigration is really the only thing keeping this country afloat it is th reason there are no riots here like Spain.

I might consider leaving. I woould take a couple of years to plan it though. And i HAVE languages. Planning and education is key. And connections.

I have family in Switzerland, France and Denmark..so hmm

But i get the impression it is easier for Irish people in the UK or America. But America is such a commitment and the UK is economically not much better. I had a cousin working as an accountant there and he is working at home now.

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy · 22-09-2012 5:20pm

Sir Pompous Righteousness wrote: »

We'd probably have a population near to that of Germany and a population density near to that of Japan.

Japan is awesome lets do it!

IrishExpat · 22-09-2012 5:22pm

Toshchiy Imperatritsy Vselennoy wrote: »

I might consider leaving. I woould take a couple of years to plan it though. And i HAVE languages.

Surely you should take advantage of any language skills you have, as companies are practically crying out for Irish workers with these.

"THE online company that announced 1,000 new jobs in February yesterday said it is having trouble finding Irish workers with the necessary language skills."

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/paypal-forced-to-import-500-workers-and-warns-of-language-skills-crisis-3171118.html

enda1 · 22-09-2012 6:00pm

What was the point in Ireland joining the EU and signing the Maastricht treaty if we're not going to avail of its clauses in encouraging people to move around the EU-wide jobs market? (obviously this doesn't count for Canada or Australia etc.)

Tombi! · 22-09-2012 6:12pm

Abi wrote: »

You mentioned Poland specifically, not me though, far from it. My way of thinking would be, why the divide in the first place? If they're being given orders to get people off the register, why isn't it across the board?

Getting people off the register is their aim, but they'll only suggest that Irish emigrate in case they're accused of something. I've mentioned the elephant in the room, and don't see the problem with it.

I mentioned Poland because it was the first country I thought of when I think of EU workers over here

But they can't tell non-nationals or whatever phrase they use to leave; because it'd cause a lot of backlash. Since they have a "right" to be here and all that. So telling them the truth "we have no jobs and you should leave" is going to look like we're trying to say "yes you're allowed be here but go away cause we won't give you a job".

"Would ya not just leave, like?"

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