Accidently overpaid.

Guill · 16-12-2010 4:44pm #1

a friend of mine was accidently overpaid by her company over a period of 6 weeks.

Total amount overpaid 600euro.

She had no idea of this as her and her hubbires money goes into a joint account. Both thought the other had lodged more money and thought nothing of it and paid of debt.
Anyways work called her in yesterday to inform her of this and to tell her that she is required to pay it back in either of 2 way: 80 hours work or a deduction plan over a period of months.

Either one is not great for her as she and her hub live week to week (thats why the money was used to pay bills).

She understands the oversight on her part yet is not happy about the deductions and/or extra working hours.
Does she have any rights here as to how she can deal with her company?

aidan_walsh · 16-12-2010 4:48pm

It doesn't really matter how big the company is, your friend has money that doesn't belong to her. If neither option suits, then the only other choice she has is to get in touch with her manager, or someone in Payroll or HR and see if they can come to some other arrangement to pay the money back.

ixoy · 16-12-2010 4:49pm

I believe the options she's been given by her company (whose size is irrelevant) are more than sufficient. Best she could do is negotiate the period over which the repayments occur but she's definitely got no right to keep any of the money.

dobsdave · 16-12-2010 4:52pm

Does 80 hours of work equal 600 euro for her?
How did they intend to pay those bills without the money her company gave her?

seamus · 16-12-2010 4:57pm

Guill wrote: »

Does she have any rights here as to how she can deal woth her 1 billion annual turnover company?

She owes a debt which must be repaid.

Her employer cannot force her to work extra hours or accept the terms of repayment as they've stated them. They cannot deduct wages from her without her agreement.

For the purposes of repayment, her employment and the debt are two entirely separate matters, so she is under no obligation to submit to their requests, nor can be fired or disciplined for her level of co-operation in the matter.

Applying common sense however, being un-cooperative can not help her employment prospects in the slightest and being unreasonable likewise.

Regardless of the size of the company's turnover, there is an individual in the payroll/finance who has the authority to discuss and come to agreement on this matter and she should go talk to that person in private. They're not an authoritarian monolith and they don't want one of their employees to end up eating bread and water for a year.

She should think of it as saving in reverse; Come up with a figure of how much she could have saved (per week/month) in order to pay off that €600 in bills. Agree a similar repayment schedule with the company.
She should be reasonable - if she's paid monthly, then €30/month over 20 months is not reasonable, but €50/month over 12 months is.

FreudianSlippers · 16-12-2010 5:33pm

The above advice is correct, but I have to point out that I find it very difficult to believe that someone living week to week would not notice an extra €600 in their account.

Aside from that, though, think of it as a good deal for her. She essentially got a €600 loan to pay off some debts which she can repay with no interest.

Guill · 16-12-2010 5:34pm

dobsdave wrote: »

Does 80 hours of work equal 600 euro for her?
How did they intend to pay those bills without the money her company gave her?

Not relevant.

Guill · 16-12-2010 5:36pm

OisinT wrote: »

The above advice is correct, but I have to point out that I find it very difficult to believe that someone living week to week would not notice an extra €600 in their account.

Aside from that, though, think of it as a good deal for her. She essentially got a €600 loan to pay off some debts which she can repay with no interest.

600 euro over 6 weeks = 100 euro extra a week in a joint account.
Husbands money varies week to week since recession hit.
I'm not going to go into it and defend her oversight but it was over looked at the time.

I like the interest free loan thing. it might make her feel better.

Guill · 16-12-2010 5:41pm

Judging by the above and this may seem pedantic. (my opinion not friends)

If i lodge money into your account, can i ask you to work for free to get it back or can i just bill you for it monthly?

Seems very unreasonable to me.

Mistake was made on other side. Although she could have done with the money, if she was given the option at the time, i'm sure she would not have taken a 'loan' or advance on wages.

Ethically its not her money, technically though? it was lodged into her account.

(these are just lay mans thinkings here so dont go getting knickers in a twist anyone...)

seamus · 16-12-2010 5:45pm

If you lodge money into my account, it would be my duty to not spend the money. There is no specific set of things which I must or may do to give this money back to you, but it is a debt which must be repaid through whatever means are acceptable to either side. You couldn't (for example) lodge €100,000 in my account and then ask that I repay €100 a week for the next 1,000 weeks, as that is needless hassle for me. If I can discharge the debt immediately and just give you back the €100,000, then I am entitled to do that.

In terms of the money being in your account, being in possession of something does not make you the legal owner of it.

Laisurg · 16-12-2010 5:54pm

Your friend should negotiate some better terms to pay back the money if the options they gave her would cause her financial difficulty, since the mistake was on their part if she explained the situation i don't think there would be a problem, however this would depend on who she's talking to, some people are just unreasonable.

mathepac · 16-12-2010 6:04pm

Laisurg wrote: »

... some people are just unreasonable.

I agree.

Laisurg wrote: »

Your friend should negotiate some better terms ... since the mistake was on their part ...

and she made no mistake by spending money that wasn't hers in the first place?

I think her employers are doing the decent thing and being pretty fair with the options they've offered.

FreudianSlippers · 16-12-2010 6:23pm

Guill wrote: »

600 euro over 6 weeks = 100 euro extra a week in a joint account.

Oh, I see... missed that at first. Trying to do 3 things at once

FreudianSlippers · 16-12-2010 6:25pm

In my view it would not be unreasonable for them to ask her to repay €100 a week.
If she genuinely did not notice the extra €100 a week then that cannot be a significant amount of money to miss.

MagicSean · 16-12-2010 6:33pm

Guill wrote: »

Judging by the above and this may seem pedantic. (my opinion not friends)

If i lodge money into your account, can i ask you to work for free to get it back or can i just bill you for it monthly?

Seems very unreasonable to me.

Mistake was made on other side. Although she could have done with the money, if she was given the option at the time, i'm sure she would not have taken a 'loan' or advance on wages.

Ethically its not her money, technically though? it was lodged into her account.

(these are just lay mans thinkings here so dont go getting knickers in a twist anyone...)

if you lodge money to your account but due to an error on your part you put the wrong account number on the slip and I get your money instead would you be ok with me keeping it?

verywell · 16-12-2010 6:35pm

Might there be a tax implication also, as she may have been taxed more than she should due to the extra money in her wages. She may be due this back.

mathepac · 16-12-2010 6:39pm

Very simple issue for the payroll office to fix as tax is self adjusting. If she agrees to work extra hours they do nothing, if she elects for a repayment scheme, they adjust her payments accordingly and the tax takes care of itself.

Guill · 16-12-2010 7:09pm

Thanks for the replies folks.

I just want to state that she has no issue repaying the money (once terms are agrred) but she was wondering what rights she had regarding the issue of repaying etc.

Thanks again.

GerardKeating · 18-12-2010 10:05am

seamus wrote: »

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They cannot deduct wages from her without her agreement.
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I think they can, if it is an over payment of wages, in the Payment of Wages Act 1991, Section 5 starts

"(1) An employer shall not make a deduction from the wages of an employee (or receive any payment from an employee) unless—"

but goes on to say in (5.5)

(5) Nothing in this section applies to—

(a) a deduction made by an employer from the wages of an employee, or any payment received from an employee by an employer, where—

(i) the purpose of the deduction or payment is the reimbursement of the employer in respect of—

(I) any overpayment of wages, or

Would this not give them the power to deduct the overpayment

WildOscar · 18-12-2010 2:21pm

I knowsomeone who was let go froma job and they kept paying him. he got two checks. they came looking for the checks and a solicitor told him he did not have to give them back. he had cashed one which he kept and returned the other. that is what happened I do not know rights/wrongs only that was what solicitor said

faceman · 18-12-2010 3:42pm

The proposal made the company seems reasonable. It seems that they are willing to accept a compromise on the money's return. Companies as well as indivuduals make mistakes and the courts will recognise that. However if a court sees that the company made good effort to come to arrangement with the employee and the employee didnt cooperate, then that would not sway in the employee's favour should it end up in court.

The second thing to consider OP as a side note (and not a preachy note) is to sit down with your partner and review how you are managing your finances. If neither of you copped the additional funds and spent it without further consideration, it may be necessary to take tighter controls and forecasting on your financial situation to better plan and prepare for the tough times we are in.

Guill · 18-12-2010 6:28pm

faceman wrote: »

The proposal made the company seems reasonable. It seems that they are willing to accept a compromise on the money's return. Companies as well as indivuduals make mistakes and the courts will recognise that. However if a court sees that the company made good effort to come to arrangement with the employee and the employee didnt cooperate, then that would not sway in the employee's favour should it end up in court.

The second thing to consider OP as a side note (and not a preachy note) is to sit down with your partner and review how you are managing your finances. If neither of you copped the additional funds and spent it without further consideration, it may be necessary to take tighter controls and forecasting on your financial situation to better plan and prepare for the tough times we are in.

LOL, not my partner, a friend of mine.

Victor · 19-12-2010 3:58am

The point stands, what if there is a disagreement and one of them runs away with the contents of the joint account? Sure, joint accounts have their uses, but this might not be the best use.

If they have debt and if she has the time available, might she ask for the overtime.

Accidently overpaid.

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