Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12-Jan 2012 onwards

joe123 · 21-01-2012 11:59pm

After todays game I was thinking why/how we were so bad. I was looking at Carroll and honestly I dont think he will ever suit a team like Liverpool or even a team thats challenging for the champions league.

His first touch is simply awful and he isnt good enough to be in a technical side. Carroll would be as useless for Swansea as he is for us.

Its funny though, I remembered mentioning months ago that we simply play better when Andy isnt playing. I did a little search for when I said this and found...

joe123 wrote: »

Another indication that we play better without Andy Carroll.

Strange thing is it was during the home win against Bolton!

The way we play we need a quick, technically sound striker. So many times today Carroll dropped deep and more often than not took a bad first touch, then hed be too slow to get in the box.

Its the signings that could make or break Kenny. He has us playing great stuff for the most part, but I never thought we could make three signings that would all rank in some of the worst in the clubs history in regard to what was spent and what we got.

Henderson,Downing and Carroll are just awful pieces of business. 75 million lads.:(

manual_man · 21-01-2012 11:59pm

I'm just thinking of the ages of some of the players when they made their first team league debuts. Owen, Fowler, Giggs, Maldini, Rooney, Rodwell, Gerrard, Wilshere, i'm sure there's plenty more examples. I don't see any excuse for not blooding a couple of our best youngsters now. Ya either have it, or ya don't

amiable · 22-01-2012 12:00am

opr wrote: »

Of course not but it shows at least he has intelligence in that area of the field. I have no ****ing clue if Agger can play the role but unless we intend to buy, we need to come up with some sort of a solution.

Opr

Ben Smith of the Times is adamant that we shall be trying very hard to buy a DM this window.

If Gerrard can be disciplined enough to play there he may be an option but then you lose his potency going forward.

amiable · 22-01-2012 12:02am

manual_man wrote: »

I'm just thinking of the ages of some of the players when they made their first team league debuts. Owen, Fowler, Giggs, Maldini, Rooney, Rodwell, Gerrard, Wilshere, i'm sure there's plenty more examples. I don't see any excuse for not blooding a couple of our best youngsters now. Ya either have it, or ya don't

All those players you have named were further forward in their development than what's available to Liverpool now IMO.

manual_man · 22-01-2012 12:05am

amiable wrote: »

manual_man wrote: »

I'm just thinking of the ages of some of the players when they made their first team league debuts. Owen, Fowler, Giggs, Maldini, Rooney, Rodwell, Gerrard, Wilshere, i'm sure there's plenty more examples. I don't see any excuse for not blooding a couple of our best youngsters now. Ya either have it, or ya don't

All those players you have named were further forward in their development than what's available to Liverpool now IMO.

Further forward in their development??? They all went through youth acadamies did they not????? Time to stop comin out with excuses. Either we blood them, or we admit that our academy is sh1te! (which i don't think it is)

joe123 · 22-01-2012 12:05am

amiable wrote: »

Ben Smith of the Times is adamant that we shall be trying very hard to buy a DM this window.

If Gerrard can be disciplined enough to play there he may be an option but then you lose his potency going forward.

We need Gerrard near the opponents goal. He is one of our main goal threats and in a team that cant score it would be bad move imo to have him play the holding midfield role.

Adam needs to be dropped as soon as possible as well.

whatawaster · 22-01-2012 12:10am

amiable wrote: »

manual_man wrote: »

I'm just thinking of the ages of some of the players when they made their first team league debuts. Owen, Fowler, Giggs, Maldini, Rooney, Rodwell, Gerrard, Wilshere, i'm sure there's plenty more examples. I don't see any excuse for not blooding a couple of our best youngsters now. Ya either have it, or ya don't

All those players you have named were further forward in their development than what's available to Liverpool now IMO.

We will never know until we give them a shot. It's all well and good us buying the best young talent available but I'm really worried that there isn't a good enough plan in place to integrate them into the first team.

They aren't being sent on loan, there aren't enough reserve matches, they aren't being used in cup matches and they aren't being given a shot on the bench at the expense of out of form first team players. Kenny would sooner have 4 defenders on the bench than Sterling or Suso and i think that is conservative and wrong.

amiable · 22-01-2012 12:16am

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/transfer-news/Inter-Milan-and-Real-Madrid-plot-summer-swoop-for-Liverpool-Luis-Suarez-article856174.html

Inter Milan and Real Madrid are weighing up audacious summer bids to land Liverpool’s Luis Suarez.

The European giants believe they could exploit the controversy surrounding the Uruguayan’s eight-match ban for racially abusing Manchester United’s Patrice Evra to prise him away from Anfield.

amiable · 22-01-2012 12:19am

whatawaster wrote: »

We will never know until we give them a shot. It's all well and good us buying the best young talent available but I'm really worried that there isn't a good enough plan in place to integrate them into the first team.

They aren't being sent on loan, there aren't enough reserve matches, they aren't being used in cup matches and they aren't being given a shot on the bench at the expense of out of form first team players. Kenny would sooner have 4 defenders on the bench than Sterling or Suso and i think that is conservative and wrong.

But the coaches who watch them every day have decided they are not ready.

Throwing such players in when not ready might damage them long term.

IMO if they are ready they will be given their chance.

Leiva · 22-01-2012 12:24am

amiable wrote: »

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/transfer-news/Inter-Milan-and-Real-Madrid-plot-summer-swoop-for-Liverpool-Luis-Suarez-article856174.html

The Mirror ??? ... Give me a break !

I wouldn't trust the crossword outta that rag never mind the headlines .

jesus_thats_gre · 22-01-2012 12:28am

opr wrote: »

I have to say I am not a fan of what Kenny has been saying after the match. Isn't he the very one who has said we will deal will things behind closed doors ? It feels like a media savvy play to appease the fans.

Opr

Lucas explains a massive proportion of today performance as a defensive unit. Absolutely gapping holes in midfield and no one tracking runs or filling holes.

Spearing woukd have done the job today if he was available.

I am very frustrated with Adam . The theory about Vaughan being a big part of his performanes at Blackpool seem to have substance - tis Lucas that he beeds now.

He also commits too many fouls - particukarly when things arent going well for him.

Worrying.

K-9 · 22-01-2012 12:36am

amiable wrote: »

The debate you entered started about Steve Clarke unless I'm mistaken?

Coady is not ready IMO and Carra is too slow and not good enough for DM.

We started off with 4-4-2 and not the 4-3-3 as ESPN were reporting before the game.

I still think that team was good enough to beat Bolton today but the players didn't seem up to it.

Why? I don't know.

No, my point was aimed at people who were happy with the team picked. You asked me who could play DM and I said nobody, Carra or Coady aren't options.

We've gotten sh*t defensively now with Lucas gone and the little bit of protection Spearing offered is gone.

Without those 2 we are going to concede goals and we have. The importance of Lucas in particular is now hitting home. A DM is intrinsic to our system, and it isn't just about winning the ball. It's how calm Lucas is in possession, how he invariably chooses the right option, how the team plays more confidently with him there.

The team now has to play a 4-3-3 or maybe a 4-4-2 and the attacking talent isn't there. An encouraging sign was Bellamy getting Carroll today, anticipating his knock downs, on the same wave length. Playing Maxi was stupid, Downing, Bellamy and Carroll makes sense.

Still, we are going to concede without a DM, Johnson gets exposed, the back 4 isn't as confident unless numbers are back, and then we can't counter attack quick enough.

Basically, without Lucas, the spine of the team is gone.

Knex* · 22-01-2012 12:41am

opr wrote: »

I would have thought the obvious person to try at DM was Agger.

Opr

Agger is great on the ball when the play is front of him but I don't think he'd be suited for DM at all tbh. I'd worry for him every time he'd receive the ball from defence facing his own goal as I don't think hes quick enough on the turn or used to that scenario. He is fantastic at seeing when the play opens up and driving from the heart of defence but I'm not so sure you'd see him as effective if moved higher up the pitch.

Add that to the fact that he is vital to our defensive success at center back. No matter who plays beside him Agger always brings out the best in them. Both Carra and Skrtel's records are much better alongside Agger than anyone else.

ush · 22-01-2012 12:47am

mixednuts wrote: »

The Mirror ??? ... Give me a break !

I wouldn't trust the crossword outta that rag never mind the headlines .

Fairly obvious CL clubs are gonna try and turn his head. Without a top four finish, he'll be gone.

willmunny1990 · 22-01-2012 12:54am

mixednuts wrote: »

The Mirror ??? ... Give me a break !

I wouldn't trust the crossword outta that rag never mind the headlines .

His head may be turned though. Who knows what way his head will be when he gets back. He will forever be branded a Racist now in the PL, he may feel like its just not worth it and decide to jump ship to Spain or Italy where acts of racism are more accepted.

Dublin_Gunner · 22-01-2012 12:56am

I think we shoulda signed Keane back on loan for the 6 weeks...

whatawaster · 22-01-2012 12:56am

amiable wrote: »

But the coaches who watch them every day have decided they are not ready.

Throwing such players in when not ready might damage them long term.

IMO if they are ready they will be given their chance.

I think a part of it is a conservatism that has been a big part of Kenny's selections

As another poster said earlier today, the make up of our benches seems more to do with seniority than any notion of balance, attacking options, or game-changing options. A bench of: Doni, Kelly, Carragher, Coates, Aurelio, Spearing, Kuyt would not surprise me.

I'm not asking for 17 year olds to be played week in week out. I just think persisting with players who have offered us nothing all season (KUYT) is the definition of madness. I have gone on and on about this during the Rafa years and Hodgson's time here (and even Houllier's reign, IIRC), so it's certainly not unique to Kenny.

Take that bench today. There was NO need for Carra, Coates and Kelly. I don't know why anyone wouldn't have used one of Sterling, Suso, Adorjan, Ngoo - anyone who might offer something different if we are losing, or might be someone to give a few minutes experience to if we are winning and comfortable.

I hate players being picked on reputation rather than form.

Knex* · 22-01-2012 1:00am

whatawaster wrote: »

I think a part of it is a conservatism that has been a big part of Kenny's selections

As another poster said earlier today, the make up of our benches seems more to do with seniority than any notion of balance, attacking options, or game-changing options. A bench of: Doni, Kelly, Carragher, Coates, Aurelio, Spearing, Kuyt would not surprise me.

I'm not asking for 17 year olds to be played week in week out. I just think persisting with players who have offered us nothing all season (KUYT) is the definition of madness. I have gone on and on about this during the Rafa years and Hodgson's time here (and even Houllier's reign, IIRC), so it's certainly not unique to Kenny.

Take that bench today. There was NO need for Carra, Coates and Kelly. I don't know why anyone wouldn't have used one of Sterling, Suso, Adorjan, Ngoo - anyone who might offer something different if we are losing, or might be someone to give a few minutes experience to if we are winning and comfortable.

I hate players being picked on reputation rather than form.

Fully agree, but it was even harder a few years ago when you could only name 5 subs. Theres little excuse nowadays to not have a healthy balance/all areas covered on the bench.

K-9 · 22-01-2012 1:03am

whatawaster wrote: »

I think a part of it is a conservatism that has been a big part of Kenny's selections

As another poster said earlier today, the make up of our benches seems more to do with seniority than any notion of balance, attacking options, or game-changing options. A bench of: Doni, Kelly, Carragher, Coates, Aurelio, Spearing, Kuyt would not surprise me.

I'm not asking for 17 year olds to be played week in week out. I just think persisting with players who have offered us nothing all season (KUYT) is the definition of madness. I have gone on and on about this during the Rafa years and Hodgson's time here (and even Houllier's reign, IIRC), so it's certainly not unique to Kenny.

Take that bench today. There was NO need for Carra, Coates and Kelly. I don't know why anyone wouldn't have used one of Sterling, Suso, Adorjan, Ngoo - anyone who might offer something different if we are losing, or might be someone to give a few minutes experience to if we are winning and comfortable.

I hate players being picked on reputation rather than form.

The only reason I want us to win the CC is the Europa Cup which means it gives extra games to blood younger players, not just in it, but the CC and FA Cup becomes less of a priority and we can give these guys a go in them too.

I was thinking differently after the match today, might as well lose to City, but there is merit in winning it. It gives more opportunities to the young lads. Hopefully some fans expectations will dampen down too, though I doubt it.

We'll probably get through and lose to Cardiff or Palace!

Leiva · 22-01-2012 1:12am

ush wrote: »

Fairly obvious CL clubs are gonna try and turn his head. Without a top four finish, he'll be gone.

willmunny1990 wrote: »

His head may be turned though. Who knows what way his head will be when he gets back. He will forever be branded a Racist now in the PL, he may feel like its just not worth it and decide to jump ship to Spain or Italy where acts of racism are more accepted.

Not a chance .

If anything this whole episode has strengthened relationships with Suarez and LFC .

The club stuck by him during one of the most disgusting character assassinations ever to be falsely aimed at a player , and I can see him bouncing back and biting at the bit to rip UTD and others a new one .

The fella is class and loves the club.

Can't get back quick enough imo.

(p's) Willy that's the 5th time you have accused the Spanish and Italian leagues of accepting racism yet not once to you provide one ounce of evidence .
Bizarre .

whatawaster · 22-01-2012 1:13am

Just a further point: Each of us may agree/disagree about which individual reserve players may/may not be ready for first team action. But if we are to say none of them are then its an indictment on a youth system we all seem to have a lot of faith in, and the club has spent a lot of money on.

Flanagan and Robinson * were not our best reserve players last season, but they proved they were capable of doing a job, being part of our squad. And its not like they were years further down the line in their development. They were 17 and 18. Jack Robinson played for us at 16.

* I don't buy into the crap I have heard about full-back being a less important/less difficult position. I think that's nonsense, it's an extremely tricky position. You get a lot of possession, being an outlet from the GK and centre-backs. You have to balance defense and attack more than any other position, and you are usually marking the fastest, most potent attackers on the opposition team. And guess what, two of our better (but not best) teenage prospects flourished when thrown in their last season.

mada999 · 22-01-2012 1:15am

mixednuts wrote: »

Would you have a phone friendly (non flash ) version of that video ?

get a HTC

K-9 · 22-01-2012 1:17am

Robinson is injured and Kelly is ahead of Flanagan, 3 academy products.

I'd agree that it is disappointing nobody else was given a game in the CC or FA cup. No excuses next season.

K-9 · 22-01-2012 1:20am

Chelsea fans involved in a bit of an incident on a train after the Norwich match. Chants about Terry apparently. Club investigating.

I'll await the back page coverage in the Sundays.

willmunny1990 · 22-01-2012 1:21am

mixednuts wrote: »

Not a chance .

If anything this whole episode has strengthened relationships with Suarez and LFC .

The club stuck by him during one of the most disgusting character assassinations ever to be falsely aimed at a player , and I can see him bouncing back and biting at the bit to rip UTD and others a new one .

The fella is class and loves the club.

Can't quick back quick enough imo.

Kenny Embarrassed the club by blindly sticking by him before any evidence came out, the whole thing couldn't of been handled worse. You don't do the whole "us against them" thing when it involves racism.

The evidence is irrefutable, he racially abused Evra, seven times i might add, so the defamation of his character was just. He will get horrendous abuse when he gets back, its not impossible he could decide to look for other options, Madrid or Inter would be very attractive to him, CL football plus the fact racism isn't a big deal to people in those countries, by that i mean he wont get the dogs abuse he would get by staying in the PL.

Leiva · 22-01-2012 1:25am

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Kenny Embarrassed the club by blindly sticking by him before any evidence came out, the whole thing couldn't of been handled worse. You don't do the whole "us against them" thing when it involves racism.

The evidence is irrefutable, he racially abused Evra, seven times i might add, so the defamation of his character was just. He will get horrendous abuse when he gets back, its not impossible he could decide to look for other options, Madrid or Inter would be very attractive to him, CL football plus the fact racism isn't a big deal to people in those countries.

I'm not getting into the whole racism debate (going to bed ) but the club know more than me or you do , so I'm biased and I'm gonna stick with the club .

My own personal view is that Evra is a liar .
Yes Suarez said Negro .. Evra took it up totally wrong went ape shiit and told a few "tales" which had to be backed up with a story which the FA swallowed , documented and is now been rightly questioned by any journo worth their salt .

Night night ... Can finish this tomorrow .

tommyhaas · 22-01-2012 1:26am

mixednuts wrote: »

Not a chance .

If anything this whole episode has strengthened relationships with Suarez and LFC .

The club stuck by him during one of the most disgusting character assassinations ever to be falsely aimed at a player , and I can see him bouncing back and biting at the bit to rip UTD and others a new one .

The fella is class and loves the club.

Can't quick back quick enough imo.

(p's) Willy that's the 5th time you have accused the Spanish and Italian leagues of accepting racism yet not once to you provide one ounce of evidence .
Bizarre .

If the club don't progress, we can't expect Suarez to hang around indefinitely. Why would he, he didn't come through the youth system, he was wasn't a Liverpool fan, he's not winning anything and he could get paid more elsewhere.

If next season we're not top 4, he'll probably be off, and tbf, I wouldn't blame him, he's too good to play for an average premier league side which given we're currently 7th, and have recently finished 6th and 7th, we're fast becoming

Regarding racism in Italy and Spain, I don't follow either league too closely, but I know Dani Alves was on the receiving end of a load of monkey chants the other night, and Lazio's fans are well known for it in Italy. I'd certainly say its a far bigger problem in either of those leagues then in England

mada999 · 22-01-2012 1:27am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I got pilloried on here for my negativity during the summer. I do think we're better now in comparison to last year, but there is no doubt that our signings have not worked out to this point.

BUT

We have a massive week ahead, with two games in the cauldron. Utd and City can go **** themselves. This is still Anfield, this is still Liverpool and we can always close the gap with fight and determination. Irrespective of everything that has gone on we still have a chance to save the season essentially. So, I think we kind of have to get behind things and see where we are this time next weekend.

you see the problem is not beating the big teams but beating the cannon fodder... has been the same for 10 years or so.....

donfers · 22-01-2012 1:28am

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Kenny Embarrassed the club by blindly sticking by him before any evidence came out, the whole thing couldn't of been handled worse. You don't do the whole "us against them" thing when it involves racism.

The evidence is irrefutable, he racially abused Evra, seven times i might add, so the defamation of his character was just. He will get horrendous abuse when he gets back, its not impossible he could decide to look for other options, Madrid or Inter would be very attractive to him, CL football plus the fact racism isn't a big deal to people in those countries.

yawn...clueless sky sports drip fed guff - forget about suarez for a second, any chance you can be transferred out of this thread..I sense big bids coming in from the youtube comments section and the "how to troll badly" guidebook, and heh with those "insightful" views you'd fit in perfectly with the English tabloids where you obviously regurgitate most of your views from - we won't haggle on the fee though, you deserve your move

willmunny1990 · 22-01-2012 1:28am

mixednuts wrote: »

I'm not getting into the whole racism debate (going to bed ) but the club now more than me or you do , so I'm biased and I'm gonna stick with the club .

My own personal view is that Evra is a liar .
Yes Suarez said Negro .. Evra tool it up totally wrong went ape shiit and told a few "tales" which had to be backed up with a storie which the FA swallowed , documented and us now been rightly questioned by Amy journo worth their salt .

Night night .

Nonsense.

But not at all surprising.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12-Jan 2012 onwards

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