New Cork - Dublin Express launched

The_Wanderer · 27-05-2015 8:22am #1

New 06.15hrs Cork to Dublin non-stop Express service begins Mon 25th May
The new service will have a journey time of 2 hours 15 minutes, arriving in Dublin Heuston at 08.30hrs. Minor changes to some other services also.
We are delighted to introduce a new non-stop express service daily (Monday to Friday):

06.15hrs from Cork’s Kent Station to Dublin Heuston, with a journey time of 2 hours 15 minutes, arriving in Heuston Station at 08.30hrs.

The new service operates from Monday 25th May onwards, and is being introduced following the approval of the National Transport Authority.
The new express service is being introduced following customer research, with a particular demand identified for a faster morning service arriving in Dublin at 08.30hrs, to facilitate business meeting needs.
This will be the only non-stop service of its type on our national network, and will enable customers to maximise the benefits of travelling with Iarnród Éireann – allowing productive use of time and offering free wifi, charge points for phones at every seat – while giving our best journey time.
We intend for this to be the beginning of a series of continuing journey time improvements, including network upgrades to deliver further speed enhancements on all our services, to ensure the train is the most competitive option for customers
As part of the introduction of the new 06.15hrs Cork to Dublin Express service, the following changes will also be implemented, following the approval of the National Transport Authority:

06.00hrs Cork to Dublin Heuston (Mon-Sat) will now depart at 05.55hrs, and operate 5 to 10 minutes earlier throughout.
04.55hrs Tralee to Mallow (Mon only) will now depart at 04.50hrs, and operate 5 to 8 minutes earlier throughout.
05.15hrs Westport to Dublin Heuston will now depart at 05.25hrs, and operate 6 to 10 minutes later throughout.
08.09hrs Newbridge to Dublin Heuston will now depart at 08.11hrs, and operate 2 minutes later throughout.
06.55hrs Athlone to Dublin Heuston (Sat only) will now depart at 07.05hrs and operate between 6 and 10 minutes later throughout.

The press launch occurred on Wednesday 27th May and 22010 is pictured passing Killenard with the new express service.
Click the picture for full details.

Thedarkb · 27-05-2015 5:10pm

That's nice, pity it's not mark 4 operated though

end of the road · 27-05-2015 5:42pm

Thedarkb wrote: »

That's nice, pity it's not mark 4 operated though

agree. they really need to be forced to use the mark 4s on the cork line as they were bought for, and to grow the lines custom. using ICRS on this line is taking capacity from others. paying peter to pay paul. mind you thats how its been for the past 11 years so expect nothing to change i suppose

n97 mini · 27-05-2015 5:43pm

Anyone know patronage levels?

27-05-2015 6:46pm

end of the road wrote: »

agree. they really need to be forced to use the mark 4s on the cork line as they were bought for, and to grow the lines custom. using ICRS on this line is taking capacity from others. paying peter to pay paul. mind you thats how its been for the past 11 years so expect nothing to change i suppose

If they're advertising the sockets at every seat, as below, then it'll have to be ICR-operated.

The_Wanderer wrote: »

This will be the only non-stop service of its type on our national network, and will enable customers to maximise the benefits of travelling with Iarnród Éireann – allowing productive use of time and offering free wifi, charge points for phones at every seat – while giving our best journey time.

end of the road · 27-05-2015 7:00pm

Karsini wrote: »

If they're advertising the sockets at every seat, as below, then it'll have to be ICR-operated.

yes, forgot. well, rob peter to pay paul it has to be then.

Heisenberg1 · 27-05-2015 7:08pm

end of the road wrote: »

agree. they really need to be forced to use the mark 4s on the cork line as they were bought for, and to grow the lines custom. using ICRS on this line is taking capacity from others. paying peter to pay paul. mind you thats how its been for the past 11 years so expect nothing to change i suppose

But that's what the ICRs were bought for too I don't see why they need to be forced to use a mark 4 it's a new service so demand at the moment might not require a longer train.

end of the road · 27-05-2015 7:31pm

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

But that's what the ICRs were bought for too I don't see why they need to be forced to use a mark 4 it's a new service so demand at the moment might not require a longer train.

no the ICRS were bought for the other lines with the mark 4 for cork. but whatever, no reason why this service which should have been introduced 30 years ago won't get the demand unless IE screw it up. i'l watch and wait

Jamie2k9 · 27-05-2015 9:35pm

A Mark 4 would struggle to complete the journey in less than 2h10m like the 22's can. Combined with the fact a 3 coach is far better suited to demand.

I am far more concerned with the poor planning for this service and the disruption it has caused which I said would happen.

Losty Dublin · 27-05-2015 10:11pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Anyone know patronage levels?

I believe there was about 50 per day.

roundymac · 28-05-2015 9:41am

I am not a fan of ICR, I'm a loco hauled man, only then is it a train IMO. However I took a rare trip to Dublin last November, up in a MK4 and back ICR, I could'nt believe the difference in comfort. My preference now would be a ICR if I was to travel that way again.

savagethegoat · 28-05-2015 12:29pm

roundymac wrote: »

I am not a fan of ICR, I'm a loco hauled man, only then is it a train IMO. However I took a rare trip to Dublin last November, up in a MK4 and back ICR, I could'nt believe the difference in comfort. My preference now would be a ICR if I was to travel that way again.

my experience too

MGWR · 28-05-2015 1:10pm

Thedarkb wrote: »

That's nice, pity it's not mark 4 operated though

Pity it's not Mark 3 operated. Hope that the taxpayer money spent on making Mark 4s more like Mark 3s when they could have kept the Mark 3s was worth it.

BTW, over in the USA, they tried nonstop trains between Washington D.C. and New York City (Pennsylvania Station) from time to time and all of them were a flop. This Dublin-Cork nonstop may be different, or may not be.

Jamie2k9 · 28-05-2015 2:13pm

BTW, over in the USA, they tried nonstop trains between Washington D.C. and New York City (Pennsylvania Station) from time to time and all of them were a flop.

In comparison Irish Rail running speeds to Cork look amazing, the route in the US is 80mph for most of it with few spots passing 100.

end of the road · 28-05-2015 4:29pm

MGWR wrote: »

Pity it's not Mark 3 operated. Hope that the taxpayer money spent on making Mark 4s more like Mark 3s when they could have kept the Mark 3s was worth it.

the rebranding exercise wasn't worth it no . the public didn't buy it this time i'm afraid

end of the road · 28-05-2015 4:30pm

savagethegoat wrote: »

my experience too

mine as well. but when i hear of capacity being an issue on other lines yet ICRS used on the cork line dispite it having its own stock which was bought speciffically for it, i would hope one can understand why i and maybe some others might see their use on the cork line is ridiculous. but, i don't know why i bother giving a damn any more about the lot, there is just no point. IE will do whats convenient for IE.

eejoynt · 28-05-2015 8:49pm

end of the road wrote: »

mine as well. but when i hear of capacity being an issue on other lines yet ICRS used on the cork line dispite it having its own stock which was bought speciffically for it, i would hope one can understand why i and maybe some others might see their use on the cork line is ridiculous. but, i don't know why i bother giving a damn any more about the lot, there is just no point. IE will do whats convenient for IE.

Mark fours were bought for general usage.

They ended up being concentrated on the Cork road.
Anyone got a back of an envelope calculation for 3 PC ICR vs 201 plus seven ml fouurs

savagethegoat · 28-05-2015 8:56pm

That's not true. AFAIK they are only passed for the Cork lne

Jamie2k9 · 28-05-2015 8:59pm

savagethegoat wrote: »

That's not true. AFAIK they are only passed for the Cork lne

Purchased for Cork services with Limerick/Galway peak service usage in mind I believe.

28-05-2015 9:00pm

savagethegoat wrote: »

That's not true. AFAIK they are only passed for the Cork lne

They were initially only passed for Dublin-Cork and Limerick but are passed for a lot more now. The internal route displays also show Galway and Tralee on the map.

savagethegoat · 28-05-2015 9:01pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Purchased for Cork services with Limerick/Galway peak service usage in mind I believe.

does it hurt with your tongue in your cheek like that or did you mean peak service on the Dublin to Limerick and Galway lines?

end of the road · 28-05-2015 9:37pm

eejoynt wrote: »

Mark fours were bought for general usage.

They ended up being concentrated on the Cork road.
Anyone got a back of an envelope calculation for 3 PC ICR vs 201 plus seven ml fouurs

no, i believe they were originally bought for the hourly cork service, but later on IE decided to clear them for some other lines.

Jamie2k9 · 29-05-2015 12:37am

savagethegoat wrote: »

does it hurt with your tongue in your cheek like that or did you mean peak service on the Dublin to Limerick and Galway lines?

Mean peak services to Galway/Limerick.

Losty Dublin · 29-05-2015 9:59pm

They were ordered to eliminate the Mark 3 sets on Cork services. As some services work between Cork to Tralee they were expected to work the Kerry lines and some services to Galway as well. In practice neither happened as 22000's came on stream but they have operated the Cork-Mallow leg before and, I believe, the odd time on the Cobh line.

They were passed out to work to Limerick while the sets were being tested before they entered service. They have not operated to Limerick in service though they have operated many of the late night services to Port Laois and Newbridge in the pass, again before 22000's became plentiful and when 29000's were concentrated on Connolly links.

GM228 · 30-05-2015 10:23am

Karsini wrote: »

They were initially only passed for Dublin-Cork and Limerick but are passed for a lot more now. The internal route displays also show Galway and Tralee on the map.

Internal route maps only for Cork and Limerick and they are still only passed for those lines, despite route clearance runs to Tralee and Dundalk they are not cleared for those lines.

GM228

30-05-2015 10:26am

GM228 wrote: »

Internal route maps only for Cork and Limerick and they are still only passed for those lines, despite route clearance runs to Tralee and Dundalk they are not cleared for those lines.

GM228

I was on a Mark 4 yesterday (0900 Dublin-Cork behind 231 for those interested) and I definitely saw Galway on the map. Whether there are lights in that part or not, I don't know.

Jamie2k9 · 30-05-2015 2:18pm

Karsini wrote: »

I was on a Mark 4 yesterday (0900 Dublin-Cork behind 231 for those interested) and I definitely saw Galway on the map. Whether there are lights in that part or not, I don't know.

The map have lights for all routes and Galway is on it.

LXFlyer · 30-05-2015 5:42pm

To clear this up for once and for all, the Mark 4 sets were originally ordered (when Joe Meagher was CEO) to replace the Mark 3 sets on the key business trains from Galway, Cork, Limerick and Tralee to Dublin, and for use on other Dublin/Cork trains.

Subsequently Dick Fearn joined Irish Rail as Chief Operating Officer under Joe Meagher, and he then came up with the concept of an hourly Dublin/Cork service using these sets, which is what they have been used for since they were delivered.

Now, despite what some people think, IE is not in some bubble that is unaffected by the recession, and due to the severe financial position that they found themselves in, they've had to put some of the Mark 4 sets into storage and replace them with ICRs. I'm sure that they are no happier about that than anyone else, but sometimes decisions such as that have to be made in order to stabilize a company's finances.

I'd expect that we will gradually see the rest of the Mark 4 sets come out of storage as things pick up (there are currently 5 sets in daily use plus a maintenance spare), but some trains on the route may well remain ICR operated if the loadings simply don't justify a full Mark 4 set. There has to be an element of operational flexibility between train types to match supply and demand.

end of the road · 30-05-2015 8:06pm

"There has to be an element of operational flexibility between train types to match supply and demand"

not when much of the other routes lose out and irish rail can't and won't cater to supply and demand on the rest of the network as well as cork, and ICRS end up on maynooth and other suburban services there doesn't. the mark 4s were for the hourly cork service. if some trains aren't filling a mark 4 set, then either management find a way to grow the business or get out and employ management who will grow the business. the line has a hell of a lot of potential for custom.

Heisenberg1 · 30-05-2015 10:18pm

end of the road wrote: »

"There has to be an element of operational flexibility between train types to match supply and demand"

not when much of the other routes lose out and irish rail can't and won't cater to supply and demand on the rest of the network as well as cork, and ICRS end up on maynooth and other suburban services there doesn't. the mark 4s were for the hourly cork service. if some trains aren't filling a mark 4 set, then either management find a way to grow the business or get out and employ management who will grow the business. the line has a hell of a lot of potential for custom
.

savagethegoat · 31-05-2015 1:28pm

with Mk4s in store and 29000 in use on long distance services, it's hardly ideal

LXFlyer · 31-05-2015 3:46pm

savagethegoat wrote: »

with Mk4s in store and 29000 in use on long distance services, it's hardly ideal

Let's not get carried away here. Virtually all long distance workings are now ICR/Mk 4 rostered, with the exceptions being:

Dublin/Sligo
The 29000s are only on 2 Intercity trains on the Sligo route for capacity reasons principally:

Sundays only:
09:05 ex-Connolly
18:00 ex-Sligo

Dublin/Rosslare
The only other workings that have a 29000 on it is on the Rosslare route and again is down to one of the services primarily being a commuter service:

Monday to Friday:
05:35 Rosslare-Dundalk
16:37 Connolly-Rosslare

Again, some people seem to have a "head in the sand" mentality - when times are tough organisations have to make difficult decisions for cost reasons whether people like it or not. Sometimes you just cannot afford to do everything you would like, and having to put Mark 4 sets into storage was one of those difficult decisions.

savagethegoat · 31-05-2015 4:06pm

I've heard it before. Fine jobs people in the South East have to be headed for home at 16.37

LXFlyer · 31-05-2015 4:31pm

savagethegoat wrote: »

I've heard it before. Fine jobs people in the South East have to be headed for home at 16.37

If people start at 08:00 then leaving at 16:30 or thereabouts is reasonable. The days of 09:00-17:30 jobs being the norm are long gone.

But I was referring more to the 05:35 ex-Rosslare which is most definitely a commuter service.

savagethegoat · 31-05-2015 4:59pm

Yes but the first train ex Rosslare doesnt arrive until 0845

LXFlyer · 31-05-2015 5:09pm

savagethegoat wrote: »

Yes but the first train ex Rosslare doesnt arrive until 0845

There is a service from Gorey that arrives at 07:46.

Anyone commuting on that could very easily take the 16:37 home.

The main commuter loading in the morning would be on the 05:35 ex-Rosslare and that would need the extra capacity that a 29k delivers.

end of the road · 31-05-2015 11:16pm

lxflyer wrote: »

The main commuter loading in the morning would be on the 05:35 ex-Rosslare and that would need the extra capacity that a 29k delivers.

even on that a 29 is overkill before greystones. maybe its got busier since but i'd doubt it seeing as its so slow it would make you want to drink yourself into oblivian

end of the road · 31-05-2015 11:28pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Virtually all long distance workings are now ICR/Mk 4 rostered

they all need to be. 29s are for maynooth and droghida services. they should be for heuston hh shuttles as well allowing portlaoise services to be a more long distance service rather then an all shacks crawler which ICRS are very unsuited for

lxflyer wrote: »

The only other workings that have a 29000 on it is on the Rosslare route and again is down to one of the services primarily being a commuter service:

Monday to Friday:
05:35 Rosslare-Dundalk
16:37 Connolly-Rosslare

also the dinner time down. even the 7.43 service is a candidate which often has a 29. infact the only 1 which you can be almost guaranteed an ICR is the late evening service

lxflyer wrote: »

Again, some people seem to have a "head in the sand" mentality

no, its simply people having enough of irish rails treatment of passengers on the connolly side and the waterford line. not to mention the distructian of and continued distructian of a couple of other lines over the years.

Thedarkb · 01-06-2015 12:12am

I'm thinking a kilkenny to cork via limerick junction would be reasonably profitable if run with a three car set given how busy macdonagh can be at times

Jamie2k9 · 01-06-2015 4:30pm

Thedarkb wrote: »

I'm thinking a kilkenny to cork via limerick junction would be reasonably profitable if run with a three car set given how busy macdonagh can be at times

I think you are crazy, when the bus is as quick if not quicker.

Jamie2k9 · 01-06-2015 4:31pm

Again, some people seem to have a "head in the sand" mentality

While I agree in principal I think it's safe to say IE have the same mentality when it comes to aspects of their operations.

end of the road · 01-06-2015 5:14pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I think you are crazy, when the bus is as quick if not quicker.

well if irish rail offered something to attract people to the train the bus supposibly being as quick or quicker wouldn't be an issue. but these days they only seem to be a longer version of a bus so its not surprising bus competition is an issue again

stehyl15 · 02-06-2015 12:15am

I personally think its about time time intercity railways such as dublin to cork are electrified. It would be cheaper, greener and faster in the long run also I personally hate dirty smelly diesel trains.

Jamie2k9 · 02-06-2015 12:56am

stehyl15 wrote: »

I personally think its about time time intercity railways such as dublin to cork are electrified. It would be cheaper, greener and faster in the long run also I personally hate dirty smelly diesel trains.

Get the cheque book and drop IE a blank one....

When were you last on a train, such smells don't happen, apart form the 29000 (only a little).

end of the road · 02-06-2015 1:32am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Get the cheque book and drop IE a blank one....

When were you last on a train, such smells don't happen, apart form the 29000 (only a little).

the 2800s a tad as well. the 2700s were horrid though. fumes all over the shop. block the nose stuff.

n1ey · 06-06-2015 10:38pm

stehyl15 wrote: »

I personally think its about time time intercity railways such as dublin to cork are electrified. It would be cheaper, greener and faster in the long run also I personally hate dirty smelly diesel trains.

Where do you get the electricity for this? On-demand requirements of trains are not easy to fulfill. Amtrak(NPRC) struggles with electricity availability in Connecticut.

Bill

stehyl15 · 07-06-2015 12:50pm

n1ey wrote: »

Where do you get the electricity for this? On-demand requirements of trains are not easy to fulfill. Amtrak(NPRC) struggles with electricity availability in Connecticut.

Bill

The national grid I would imagine

07-06-2015 1:14pm

stehyl15 wrote: »

The national grid I would imagine

The grid in its current form most likely wouldn't have the capacity for a full scale electrification. Most countries with large electrified railway networks have nuclear power plants.

lucernarian · 07-06-2015 11:43pm

Karsini wrote: »

The grid in its current form most likely wouldn't have the capacity for a full scale electrification. Most countries with large electrified railway networks have nuclear power plants.

Power generation and power transmission are two quite different things. Looking at a single electric locomotive at around 4 or so MW max power, this is far smaller than the output of most gas turbine or peat power plants. Supposing 5 are in operation at any one time between Dublin and Cork, that 22 MW demand can easily be supplied via Eirgrid with a few 38 kV to MV substations along the route. Nothing particularly challenging compared to erecting hundreds of km of catenary wire and the cost of electric locos themselves.

Whatever the problem in Connecticut, it's hard to imagine what it could be unless it runs through comparatively remote parts of the state and (more likely) the line was electrified with much lower speeds envisaged by planners and also they installed the bare minimum of substations. If trains need more power through the wires than the existing substations and catenary can supply, either the catenary will have to be replaced with thicker wire or else the amount of substations will need to be doubled over the relevant stretch.

ardmacha · 07-06-2015 11:48pm

Karsini wrote: »

The grid in its current form most likely wouldn't have the capacity for a full scale electrification. Most countries with large electrified railway networks have nuclear power plants.

This doesn't make sense, railway demand is not a large part of the national demand for electricity. The DART has several trains moving at the same time on the network and nobody has suggested that is a problem.

Captain Chaos · 07-06-2015 11:59pm

ardmacha wrote: »

This doesn't make sense, railway demand is not a large part of the national demand for electricity. The DART has several trains moving at the same time on the network and nobody has suggested that is a problem.

For the DART they had to upgrade and build more substations with the introduction of regular 8 car train operations in 2000-2001. Don't know how much head room for future proofing of capacity and frequency was built into it.

New Cork - Dublin Express launched

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