Should I sell or carry on renting land out and who is responsible for fencing

Mac63 · 09-02-2016 8:55pm #1

Hi there,

This is my first post on any sort of forum so I hope I'm in the right place. This is a bit long winded but I could really do with some advice.

A few years ago I had to sell the family farm due to a personal situation. I kept 11.5 acres just outside Kells in Meath.

As I had to move from Ireland I rented it out. First for no money just to maintain the land, fences, weeds etc and to keep it occupied. I then realised this was a foolish thing to do so I charged a low rent. 70 euros per month for the whole 11.5 acres, still with the idea that as it was lower than normal rate that they were responsible for the up keep of the land.

I'm now getting the rent late more times than not and they internal fence has broken due to the horses and cattle they have on it and are now looking for me to fence it...Should I do this and do I need to keep it fenced for horses or can I just do the usual sheep fencing of sheep wire and barb at the top?

As this is causing me more headaches and the emotional hold had gone I'm now thinking of selling. It was at the time I left great fattening land.. It was covered in clover and good dry land..I was offered 8k for it a few years ago but feel this was too low... Any ideas what I should let it go for? I've tried looking at farming news but it's hard when you're not at home to be close to know what's going on.

Thanks

Nekarsulm · 10-02-2016 12:40am

8 thousand per acre?
Probably about right. Although a small parcel can often go much more per acre than a bigger one. Depends on the farmers around and how much that parcel suits them.
Bad tenants are a pain, and when you're not about to keep an eye on things.
Your rental price is a bit low, double it. Tenants think more of something if they are paying market price, but by the sounds of it, the ones you have are never going to pay up nor on time.
Have you any emotional connection to it?
Perhaps a plan in your head to come back/retire onto it and build a dwelling? If not, and your sure not, then if your happy to sell, go for it.

kupus · 10-02-2016 12:55am

tough one to consider, but just remember you never know whats around the corner. I know people that said theyd never come back but circumstances change when your away. both at home and with you. So id keep it and get shot of the freeloader you have in now, get someone in who'll look after it.
as nek told you people dont respect anything till its gone especially if they are getting it for peanuts.

tanko · 10-02-2016 1:16am

Surely land near Kells is worth a lot more than 8K per acre.

barnaman · 10-02-2016 1:28am

Its not Tanko. its varaible up there I know it well its all a bit Hilly and granted most of it can be used for tillage etc given tillage returns thats no big whop. Plenty of parcels around OPs size for sale and rent up there he should call a few auctioneers. also its a nightmare getting planning up there out the country they do not want sites and restrictions on house type you can build. Land here my farm (south Tipp) was valued at 20,000 an acre during boom now making 10k; land prices are not going up.
Op my honest advise is sell and move on. If not returning you can put the money to use the return on land v its capital value and the hassle getting rents etc not worth it. That tenant acting the bollox getting him out is number one thing to do; get an auctionner to rent it on 11 months and you can easily sell it then

Cattlepen · 10-02-2016 7:55am

First thing to do is get rid of that tenant. They are taking the mick.
Then put it up for sale with auctioneer. The hunger for ground is still alive and well in rural Ireland and you might be surprised what you might get for it.
Best of luck either way

Reggie. · 10-02-2016 8:59am

Cattlepen wrote: »

First thing to do is get rid of that tenant. They are taking the mick.
Then put it up for sale with auctioneer. The hunger for ground is still alive and well in rural Ireland and you might be surprised what you might get for it.
Best of luck either way

Not too sure about the hunger for land as theee are about 4 to 5 parcels for sale near me from 6 acres to 25 acres. For sale about 2 years now and no interest. Tried to rent some of it but most owners seem to be from Dublin and not interested in renting it out.

Mac63 · 10-02-2016 9:11am

Thanks for all your replies and advice.

It's outlaying so no zoning and no planning in my lifetime, only an accommodation road for access as the farm was split down the middle, otherwise I would definitely keep it.

I did have an emotional tie as it was the family farm and felt that I'd let the memory of my father down, but I had to sell the house with sheds and land a few years back to due divorce. So the biggest part has gone I was just holding on to what I had but it's never going to be anything other than what it is.

The land is very good, not hilly, dry, clean and as I said is just great fattening land.

A lot of the the farmers around did want it but they were all thinking I'd just sell at any price to get rid due to my situation and I got stubborn as I wasn't going to give it away.

I feel it's worth 10k but then things are only worth what people are prepared to pay for it.

I'm going to call a few Auctioneers today and plan a trip home in two weeks to sort things out.

I'm really grateful for the tenants advice as I thought they were being ungrateful, and a pain in the arse. And to be honest I'll be glad to get their horses off it as they are killing the clover.

Thanks so much I feel a lot better about dealing with them now.

Mac63 · 10-02-2016 2:29pm

I don't think there is a great move for land either, I'm happy to rent but to someone who will at least pay me and not rape the land until it's fit for nothing.

I'm home in two weeks and have made arrangements with a couple of auctioneers who said they are happy to advise me.

They've all said it will sell but for what price..lol

Reggie. · 10-02-2016 4:25pm

Mac63 wrote: »

I don't think there is a great move for land either, I'm happy to rent but to someone who will at least pay me and not rape the land until it's fit for nothing.

I'm home in two weeks and have made arrangements with a couple of auctioneers who said they are happy to advise me.

They've all said it will sell but for what price..lol

Be a little wary of auctioneers aswell. On boardsie here learned that the hard way recently

barnaman · 10-02-2016 5:32pm

Mac should be no bother rent land up there; lads will be applying for Young Farmer this yeat again and happy take naked land.
http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/tipperary-dairy-holding-on-market-for-500000-34434322.html
Will be setting benchmark down my world in March

Midfield9 · 10-02-2016 6:00pm

It's a pitty your tenants didn't look after your land seen as they got more than fair price. Sound like hobby farmers and horses never do land any favours anyway.

If you don't need the money don't sell. You never know what the future holds. If you can get the right tenant with a 7-10 year lease you can keep all rent tax free. At 150 acre that is 1600+ a year in your pocket. 10years=16000

Could always let an auctioneer look after collecting rent

Mac63 · 10-02-2016 11:26pm

Midfield9 wrote: »

It's a pitty your tenants didn't look after your land seen as they got more than fair price. Sound like hobby farmers and horses never do land any favours anyway.

If you don't need the money don't sell. You never know what the future holds. If you can get the right tenant with a 7-10 year lease you can keep all rent tax free. At 150 acre that is 1600+ a year in your pocket. 10years=16000

Could always let an auctioneer look after collecting rent

Thanks Midfield...
Your advice as others has been invaluable, I don't need to sell just fed up with the tenants and hassle... But reading your post maybe I should just get rid of the tenants, rent out properly ....not sure I totally trust auctioneers in management but you've really put me on the right track...

Is it best to go with an auctioneer to find a renter or places like done deal? I'd love to get someone fair and local

barnaman · 10-02-2016 11:33pm

You need an auctioneer or similar avoid DD for this. If long term lease will be legal etc costs. Lease needs to be drafted and registered etc. Income tax free but PRSI and USC has to paid on it. Everyone uses version of lease below. I would get an ag advisor in will only cost a 200 and worth it should give you best advice then talk to auctionner etc.
http://www.ifa.ie/cross-sectors/farm-business-and-credit/land-lease-master-document/
Use a version of that.

Nekarsulm · 10-02-2016 11:42pm

If renting, use an Auctioneer to get a good tenant. Agree a fee for this in advance. If it's a ten year lease don't let them try to apply the same full fee for each subsequent year, because all they will have to do each year is collect and lodge tenants cheque in your account.

lanod2407 · 11-02-2016 8:21am

Agree with previous posters about being wary with auctioneers - cute hoorism is alive and well, and can he hard to know what's going on when you're quite remote from the place.

Selling - I'd hold back for a while if I were you. Your problem right now is that you've got a bad tenant, and that's not a reason to sell. Find a good tenant and see how it goes.
And it's been said above as well that you don't know what the future will bring - you might want to hold on to the place in case you come back (I did!!), and if there are other family members or kids they may well appreciate the place being there in years to come.

Whatever you do, just make sure you're addressing whatever problem you have - from what I've read it sounds like a bad tenant rather than a need / desire to be rid of the place?

tractorporn · 11-02-2016 10:51am

Mac63 wrote:

Thanks Midfield... Your advice as others has been invaluable, I don't need to sell just fed up with the tenants and hassle... But reading your post maybe I should just get rid of the tenants, rent out properly ....not sure I totally trust auctioneers in management but you've really put me on the right track...

Having dealt with management companies for my house in the UK all I can say is that they are a necessary evil. They will find new and inventive ways to extract money from you as will an auctioneers but if you are not living in the country you kinda have to put up with that for the peace of mind. Look at it this way if the cost of flights, time off work etc is roughly the same as the fees it really isn't costing you that much.

Mac63 · 11-02-2016 5:55pm

Thanks Barnaman

Just read that article... It reads like one of those farms that has a lot going for it and doesn't come up often, so I can imagine a huge interest.

Should I sell or carry on renting land out and who is responsible for fencing

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