Driving in the middle lane

corktina wrote: »

Can you imagine the chaos without this rule? It would give carte blanche to even more people to hog the overtaking lane and you'd have people weaving in and out, constantly having to switch lane to under- and overtake

It would be more or less exactly as it is now in fairness, except there might be a better flow in the traffic as people would not hesitate to pass on the left.

djimi wrote: »

It would be more or less exactly as it is now in fairness, except there might be a better flow in the traffic as people would not hesitate to pass on the left.

It would be exactly what the M50 and its approaches are now.

Going to Dublin on the M6/M4, the muppetry starts immediately after the last tollgate.

Please let's not turn all our other motorways into the M50.

dtipp wrote: »

This is an interesting debate and I'd love a definite answer.

Regularly, I'm driving out of Dublin on the Naas dualcarriageway late at night.
So I sit into the left of the 3 lanes and stick on the cruise control at around 100km/h.

There's usually very little on the road at the time of night I'm driving.
Whatever is on the road, however, is usually in the middle lane.

So I don't change lanes, I just pass on the inside - to me it's far safer than changing lanes four times every time I want to pass on vehicle (two out to right lane, two back to left lane).

Am I breaking the law?

Even if I am, I think I'm definitely doing the right thing - it's far more dangerous surely to be constantly changing lanes.

Thanks for all the replies to this question.

Leaving aside the law for a second, I can't believe anyone really thinks that continuing on the left lane (and therefore undertaking any car that is driving slower in the middle lane) is more dangerous then changing lanes 4 times every few minutes.

Either way, I won't be changing how I drive on the Naas dualcarriageway.
It's simply too dangerous IMHO to use the outside lane every time I see an idiot cantering along late at night in the middle one.

ironclaw wrote: »

Something just went through my head last night, when people in lane 2 suddenly swerve to take their exit i.e. Very few middle lane drivers 'prepare' and move to the left lane (Where they should be anyway) to take their exit. Do they ever stop and think, "Wouldn't it be easier if I just stayed in lane 1 unless I had to?" Seems like an obvious solution to me. Saw this behaviour at every single junction on the M50 last night.

A million years ago, before we had motorways in Ireland, if I was driving in France I used pretty religiously stick to the right hand lane (their driving lane) on the basis that that's where the exits were, and it would save me from missing my exit.

There are some extremely rare occasions in Ireland where you may have to exit right, but middle-lane people seem to think that it's equally common to exit right or left, and that by staying in the middle they'll be prepared to go in either direction.

coming up to the old toll bridge (M50) last night at about 11pm in lane 1..a car joins from the last exit before, empty motorway in front of him and he just sails across to the lane 3, about 60/70 metres in front of me @ 80/85kph.

I come all the way across from lane 1 to the lane 3 as I want to pass him legally. After a min or two I end up flashing him and eventually after a few flashes beeping him, before he moves across, gives me the finger, I pull back across the whole way to the lane 1 and he merrily went back to lane 3 as soon as I passed!!

All fun and games!

djimi wrote: »

There are? Got any examples? (Im not doubting you; Im just curious as I have never come across one!)

The one I had in mind is if you're heading northbound on the M50, and want to go to Clarehall/Malahide. If you're in the driving lane, you reach a point where you need to go right to what was the middle lane in order to continue on to the N32. It's a bit unclear whether people taking the N32 are exiting right, or continuing straight ahead, but you can't stay in the driving lane and get to Malahide. Further up you end up with 5 lanes with markings like:
1 | 2 3 | 4 5 (where | shows the auxiliary lane road markings). The bulk of the traffic is taking lanes 2 and 3, which would kind of seem like 4 and 5 (to Malahide) are a right exit, albeit on the flat and straight ahead.
http://goo.gl/maps/6CDeC


The road markings around there are a bit odd in general. At the spot I've placed the little man on the map, I'd really consider that the very left lane there is still the auxilliary, where people would be merging from the previous junction, but I presume at busy times it starts filling with people queuing. If you were being very conscientious, and moved to the very left once the auxiliary lane finished, you'd find yourself a bit stuck for continuing on the N32, as you'd need to get across 3 lanes (if for some reason you missed the overhead gantries, which can happen in busy traffic if you're behind a truck).


I can't think of any others, but if I had said there was only one, someone would have popped up to tell me I'm wrong. And someone probably will now anyway.

creedp wrote: »

But isn't this the point though .. it is just fun and games. Presumably some people think its actually safer to do what's outlined above than continuing on in Lane 1 simply because that's what's set out in the ROTR? I simply don't believe a garda would lash on his blue light and chase you because you continued in Lane 1 in this circumstance

The M50 toll bridge is at least 10+ mins from the end of the M50. To be in lane 3 at that stage is lunacy. Its not that hard to traverse 3 lanes, in any traffic conditions.

Anyone I see going straight for lane 3 in a newish car is generally a rental in my experience. I've often had to flash people out of the way and when you look in its Hertz and maps all over the dash :pac:

Thoie wrote: »

The one I had in mind is if you're heading northbound on the M50, and want to go to Clarehall/Malahide. If you're in the driving lane, you reach a point where you need to go right to what was the middle lane in order to continue on to the N32. It's a bit unclear whether people taking the N32 are exiting right, or continuing straight ahead, but you can't stay in the driving lane and get to Malahide. Further up you end up with 5 lanes with markings like:
1 | 2 3 | 4 5 (where | shows the auxiliary lane road markings). The bulk of the traffic is taking lanes 2 and 3, which would kind of seem like 4 and 5 (to Malahide) are a right exit, albeit on the flat and straight ahead.
http://goo.gl/maps/6CDeC


The road markings around there are a bit odd in general. At the spot I've placed the little man on the map, I'd really consider that the very left lane there is still the auxilliary, where people would be merging from the previous junction, but I presume at busy times it starts filling with people queuing. If you were being very conscientious, and moved to the very left once the auxiliary lane finished, you'd find yourself a bit stuck for continuing on the N32, as you'd need to get across 3 lanes (if for some reason you missed the overhead gantries, which can happen in busy traffic if you're behind a truck).


I can't think of any others, but if I had said there was only one, someone would have popped up to tell me I'm wrong. And someone probably will now anyway.

Ah right I get you; in my head thats more where lanes split off to different roads rather than an exit as such, but I get what you mean.

corktina wrote: »

on an auxiliary lane yes (perhaps) but not on a motorway. In your scenario, you are in any case allowed pass on the inside.

Well merely being present in the auxiliary lane is an indication that you are taking the next exit and passing on the left is allowed if you are indicating to take the next exit. You are most likely not to have your actual indicators on but you are still indicating by being in the aux lane.

corktina wrote: »

on an auxiliary lane yes (perhaps) but not on a motorway. In your scenario, you are in any case allowed pass on the inside.

According to our law, you can overtake on left, if you intend to turn left, and signalled this intention with indicator.
That includes motorways.

captain_irish wrote: »

Last week driving on n7 passing rathcoole there was a woman with her elderly mother in the car doing 60 in the middle lane at rush hour. People overtaking were causing massive tailbacks everyone slamming on brakes nearly crashing. She refused to move to the left. I moved from right lane to left one and undertook her beeping and shouting all sorts of obscenities at her.I got up to the limit and as long as she was in my rear view mirror she was on the middle lane. 5 mins after I got home I heard garda and ambulance on n7. Apparently a motorbike was involved. I have absoutely no doubts whatsoever that that woman was to blame but it happened behind her so she was oblivious to it prob blamed someone else..... was I wrong to undertake her or should I have just added to the pile up???????

I passed that accident - it took place on the M7, not the three lane carriage way of the N7.

BTW - does anyone know what happened to that motorcyclist?

Bruthal wrote: »

Beeping and shouting at every annoying driver is just silly and as annoying as the oblivious drivers themselves.

An oblvious driver is not going to suddenly realise they are in the wrong if we all starting flashing, beeping and blinding at them. Its a fruitless exercise and the only person we wind up is ourselves. People in Ireland need to learn the concept of maintaining an average speed, keeping the cool and just getting to where they need to go. Keep a distance, pass the middle lane hogger safely and just be on your way.

Driving emotional is a bad idea. We have no proof this lady caused an accident. What she was doing was wrong but it wasn't as stupid as two cars (or whatever) that didn't have the wits, maturity and cop on to maintain a distance. Instead, I'm assuming, everyone was getting rilled up over a few seconds of wasted time and this was the end result.

Seconds lads, thats what your saving. Seconds.

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You have a duty of care to those directly in front of you. Just because someone 2km down the road is in the wrong lane doesn't waive that. In fact, you shouldn't even care. Concentrate on what is in your immediate vicinity. Unfortunately, as road users, we have no way of educating these people. Thats the (failing miserably) job of the RSA :rolleyes:

She was in the wrong, no question, but there are people that seem to think a 5m gap is sufficient stopping distance at all times of night and day. The N11 / M11 interchange at rush hour is a perfect example of if we all left a gap, we'd be all home a lot sooner.

These people arn't causing accidents, they are facilitating them purely because people (more and more I think) are becoming hot headed behind the wheel.

RSA should stick up a TV add on lane discipline.

dashcamdanny wrote: »

RSA should stick up a TV add on lane discipline.

For all the good it did, there was one years ago (late 70s) - doesn't appear to be on youtube unfortunately but some here may remember it.

Featured a Fiat making a spectacular 'three lane changes in one go with no indicators' manoeuvre on the Stillorgan dual carriageway. They probably just stuck a camera on the Belfield flyover and waited for the inevitable muppetry to happen.

There was also a black Merc on the Naas Road - southbound on Kylemore Rd / Walkinstown Ave junction I think. From the rightmost straight ahead lane, he tried to turn right when the lights turned green - "Now he's banjaxed TWO lanes of traffic." Strange that they picked that as one of the most important bad behaviours on the road that needed to be rectified, but there you go.

It also emphasised the basic rule of the road - "Keep Left, Pass Right" which few drivers seem aware of these days

I do be giving out to the missis for it. She feels comfortable in the middle lane as once she gets over into the left lane, the middle lane drivers seem to get some sort of satisfaction in blocking her in there when she comes up to a slower truck and wants to pass.

This would be a true assessment in my view. I live my life in the left lane with a limited speed commercial and see this happen often. Which forces the left lane passer to brake and loss momentum due to a knob end block passing them instead of reading the road and moving into the right lane .

Although Irish drivers are very courteous in general, the ignorance of their surroundings can be annoying somewhat.