ESB to reduce Wholesale Broadband Rates

yellum · 16-12-2003 2:36pm #1

Read this on the RTE Website. The main story is about the Electricity Network but at the end it had this:

Later this afternoon, the ESB's broadband division is expected to announce that it has drastically cut the wholesale rates on its network.

Wonder was it from pressure from Dermot ?

Eurorunner · 16-12-2003 2:43pm

Will this result in wireless operators with their brand spanking new licenses offering the end user more competitive deals??

..and also allowing them to bodyswerve €ircon for backhaul?

dahamsta · 16-12-2003 6:18pm

Full press release, via IIU.

Dermot Ahern Announces Breakthrough in Broadband Pricing For Regions

Dublin, Tuesday, 16th December, 2003

Dermot Ahern TD, Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, today announced new regional high-speed broadband connectivity framework deals.

These deals will be the key drivers of broadband outside Dublin. This move radically improves the economic case for providing broadband in the regions.

Under the offerings, high-speed broadband packages, including 155 Mbps (STM 1), 34 mbps 100mbps Ethernet, (622Mbps) STM4, will be available to towns on the ESB Telecom s fibre optic network.

In addition, 2.5Gbps wavelength products connecting Dublin to 26 regional towns would be made available on the Esat BT network.

In total, over 40 towns will be involved.
Making the announcement, the Minister said pricing on complementary offerings on both deals was on a par with that available internationally and a fraction of what was currently available on the Irish market. He said that this pricing heralded the death of distance from Dublin.

The Minister said: Some of the pricing on offer will be eight times lower than that currently available on the market. Furthermore, the product offerings will go a long way towards putting regional Ireland on a par with Dublin in terms of the availability and pricing of this very high-speed connectivity. The offerings will link regional Ireland to Dublin at low cost and high speed.

The broadband products and pricing in the ESBT offering are as follows:
· 34 megabit products @ ¬50,000 per annum;
· Ethernet 100 mbps @ ¬50,000 per annum;
· STM1s @ ¬100,000 per annum; and
· STM4 @ ¬400,000 per annum.
All pricing is point to point on ESB s extensive fibre wrap network. This new network consists of almost 1,300 kilometres of 48-fibre cable in a figure-of-eight loop around Ireland taking in all four provinces and most major towns and cities. The Government and the European Regional Development Fund supported ESBT s construction of this network under the NDP 2000-2006.

The Minister said: I am pleased to see such a positive outcome from this project for regional Ireland. The project is particularly innovative in that it deploys fibre optic cable along ESB electricity transmission system.

The Esat BT offering involves an ultrahigh-speed product and leverages the investment made by the Government and Esat BT in its regional fibre network in recent years, including the significant investment made in the Western Digital Corridor. The pricing in the Esat BT offering is designed to encourage connectivity to groups of towns. On average the cost per wavelength per annum is in the region of ¬150,000 to ¬200,000 per annum.

Individual ISPs, telcos and consortia will be able to draw down capacity from these framework deals.
In what he termed a historic week for broadband in regional Ireland he looked forward with confidence to 2004 and to boosting Ireland s broadband standing internationally.

He said: My broadband vision for Ireland is one in which all homes, schools, businesses and Government agencies would be interconnected in a high-speed electronic grid.

Major towns and cities on the ESBT network include;
Cork, Mallow, Charleville, Limerick, Shannon, Ennis, Galway, Tuam, Roscommon, Carrick-on-Shannon, Sligo, Manorhamilton, Ballyshannon, Letterkenny, Buncrana, Dundalk, Drogheda, Portlaoise, Cavan, Dublin, Arklow, Wexford, Waterford, Dungarvan Middleton.

The cities and towns in the Esat BT offering are ;
Mullingar, Athlone, Sligo, Tullamore, Roscommon, Ballina,Claremorris, Longford, Carrick-on-Shannon, Carlow, Kilkenny,Wexford, Thurles, Arklow, Enniscorthy, Gorey, Wicklow, Greystones, Bray, Portlaoise, Clonmel,Waterford, Cork, Clonakilty, Limerick, Galway.

Ends
For further media information, please contact:
Richard Moore
Press Advisor
Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources
Leeson Lane
Dublin 2
Tel: +353-(01) - 678-2440
Fax: +353-(01) - 676-6161

iwb · 16-12-2003 6:53pm

This really has been an eventful few weeks in the space. We certainly do live in interesting times. While a lot of these announcements are less than the complete breakthroughs they seem to be, added together, they are significant and will help in the long run.
The only piece of the puzzle still missing is the MSE which Mr. Ahern claims will manage a lot of this.

The Clown Man · 16-12-2003 8:11pm

Now that is interesting.

I wonder how long it will take before someone actually makes full use of the system. Might we have a modern information infrastructure yet? ...

spongebob · 16-12-2003 8:25pm

What about all those towers the ESB own , what about the backhaul from those towers that is already in place ?

That element is missing, I dont think that ESAT are opening the Western Digital Corridor either otherwise we may have seen a mention of Kinnegad in their bit of the announcement.

The Western digital corridor will still be unlit, for example it runs within 50m of a big ESB tower that could provide Loughrea Co Galway and its hinterland with Wireless.

What about RTE and their towers?

More minister. Join these fibres to towers for WISp services. You are the only shareholder in the two organisations with the largest National tower infrastructure apart from the Guards .

M

spongebob · 16-12-2003 8:50pm

Originally posted by dahamsta
Full press release, via IIU.

"Ethernet 100 mbps @ ¬50,000 per annum; "

Hibernia Atlantic charge EU25 per megabit per month on their Translantic Fibre

Donegal - Dublin 100Mbps Ethernet = EU50,000 Per Annum
Dublin - New York 100Mbps Ethernet = EU30,000 Per Annum

It is 'rumoured' that the MSE will not cost as much as the ESB, that is probably why the ESB announced their pricing now to lock in some customers, you had to sign a bloody NDA until recently so any public announcement is an improvement on their previous obtuseness.

MSE to be set up shortly, giz another announcement there Minister please

M

wexfordman · 16-12-2003 9:51pm

Would this MSE (I know nothing about it), have the go ahead to install bakhaul from these points to co-located masts ? Will they build infrastructre or just manage it ?

It seems like a lot is happening, but as Muck said, what about utilising what we own already ?. RTE for example have a mast (2 actually) less than half a km outside youghal town which could provide wireless BB to over half of youghal at the drop of a hat. Backhaul is a synch as well. A simple 2Mb Micrwave link back to one of the ESB's SDH sites (just above youghal), and theres your backbone all the way to Dublin.

There are loads of instances like this all over the country, where if we used existing state owned infrastructure, we could roll BB into rural areas and towns in a matter of months. Apart form all that, theres money to be made in it, particualry for the likes of RTE and ESB who probably already have most of the network infrastructure in place.

Only, If only, Ahern could get the mobile operators involved as well, we'd be away in a hack. Over 3,000 masts covering 98% geographic coverage, with backhaul back to every major city/town in the country. What a waste!!!!

wexfordman

spongebob · 16-12-2003 10:47pm

He could own as many as 1000 between the Aviation Authority , ESB , RTE . The mobile operators own some but many are owned by the likes of Cellcom in Galway and are not under Dermots control. They will probably find that Dermots pricing on HIS masts sets a pattern that is to be encouraged.

Incidentally, did anyone read a recent Farmers Journal article on expressions of interest among farmers for mast sites , some shower got 300 interested farmers who owned hilly bits here n there.

The farmers were told to feck off unless they are beside a National Primary rd or a big town. The Farmers Journal has no problem making a list of these farmers known, must think about the implication of another 300 sites which may be ideal for Rural BB and bugger to the 3G operators.

M

Capt'n Midnight · 16-12-2003 11:51pm

Any idea if those farmers are interested in money or in broadband ?

wexfordman · 17-12-2003 12:43am

Sorry Muck, I did'nt mean to imply that Dermot had control over the 3000+ mobile masts, what I meant was would'nt you think the mobile companies would be interested in a slice of the action, seeing as they have most of the infrastructure already. If its economically feasible for Irish BB to rollout a Dublin SDH ring, and also lease backhaul down in Cork, it must surely be even more worthwhile for operators with existing backhaul and spare capacity to do it too.

And is there anything Dermot could do to encourage them. Probably around 60% of these 3000 masts are owned by the mobile operators, and as you said most others are co-located ESB,RTE Garda and Private structures/buildings. Some say that mobile operators dont want BB to cut into their 3G business, but I dont think thats an argument really, as we are talking about what is really a fixed product delivered wirelessly rather than over copper pair. Also, one way or another, BB will eventually extend its reach, so why dont they get in early...

Other interesting items are the new products/trials in germany and the uk, where mobile operators are offering home voice services over VOIP via BB connections at home (a bluetooth enabled GSM phone that logs on to the home BB when your at home). Anyway, I diverse.

I think I heard Meteor were slightly curious about wireless BB a while back seeing as they werent making too much headway in voice (something to do with Comreg proposing use of 1800 GSM spectrum for Rural Wirelss BB), but it obviously never happened.

wexfordman

ednwireland · 17-12-2003 10:52am

ESB northern loop is due to go live by year end or jan as far as i know its not lit as far as the run from carrick on shannon to buncrana only has pops at manorhamilton letterkenny and buncrana so don't expect this to provide much more backhaul than is there although it may be cheaper than eircom i guess.

thegills · 17-12-2003 11:09am

He could own as many as 1000 between the Aviation Authority , ESB , RTE

Where are these figures coming from? Most of the ESB and RTE towers are in the middle of nowhere to apart from the odd one. Coillte are another company that has thousands of acres of land that could be used for mast building.

The problem is that it costs €30k-€60k for a decent mast and probably €10k-€50k for a decent microwave link out of an ESB / RTE site back to backhaul (fibre) somewhere. None of the wireless operators (IBB, LEAP, etc. ) are interested in spending this type of cash until they have generated enough business in Dublin.

thegills

wexfordman · 17-12-2003 4:10pm

Gills,

The ESB actually have masts centrally located in most major towns in Ireland, eg, Dungarvan Carrigtwohill, Mallow, Wexford., Ballincollig, Cork City etc.

THese are masts from both the old ESB infrasturcutre (where they had 2w radio systems in their old vans), and more recently from the ESB who actively apply for planning in locations where they beleive they can lease out space to wireless operators. An awfull lot of the these are in very good locations, where backhaul can be easily obtained, which is probably why the ESB are building them as they know they will be utilised, and woul dtherefore boe good locations for fixed BB. The more recent ones I know of, eg Cork city are "Bird Cage" type structures designed specifically to maximise the potential of co-location. Douglas and Gurranabraher are two examples for anyone in the real capital.

spongebob · 17-12-2003 4:30pm

Originally posted by thegills
The problem is that it costs €30k-€60k for a decent mast and probably €10k-€50k for a decent microwave link out of an ESB / RTE site back to backhaul (fibre) somewhere.

That what I am saying innit !

You are saying that it costs up to €50 k for a Microwave backahaul. I and Wexfordman are saying that if the mast is Lattice the Microwave Backhaul is already there, pointing back towards fibre Pops. If the ESB are prepared to provide 100Mbit on Fibre at €50k a year then it is Incongrous, to be polite about it, if they charge €50k for 5Mbit simply because it is on a tower. In the case of RTE it would all be Microwave c. 10Ghz as they have no national fibre. RTE towers are much bigger, where they exist.

Their Shareholder must encourage them in this.

If they become so encouraged I would hope that the shareholder then ensures that the balance of their masts qualify for an accelerated Grant program from his €140m allocation in order that they be upgraded to the same standards, it would be a nice quid pro quo in my opinion.

M

wexfordman · 17-12-2003 4:39pm

"If they become so encouraged I would hope that the shareholder then ensures that the balance of their masts qualify for an accelerated Grant program from his €140m allocation in order that they be upgraded to the same standards, it would be a nice quid pro quo in my opinion."

Exactly Muck, and some of the money could go towards providing wireless backhaul in cases where its not available also. A once off install fee of 50K for a wirelss backhaul link that will cover an entire town is 50k well spent.

Wexfordman

spongebob · 17-12-2003 4:51pm

Relative to its population and geography it must be said that the West Coast is ROTTEN with these masts/structures already although some belong to prvate operators not the public.

In the flatter centre of the country it was (historically) not (as) necessary to install as many masts to get the same geographic coverage, especially for TV and FM radio .

Last I heard, the government had NO intention of selling off the ESB Transmission arm (towers tend to be near transformer stations) and RTE's Masts (nobody wants them any more) .

M

thegills · 17-12-2003 4:59pm

True, ESB have towers in urban locations, however in most instances O2 have taken the top 6m and anything below is not much use unless the tower is in a good location. O2 have loads of E1 backhaul available but they currently lease it to commercial customers as VPN's.
The O2 / Garda deal though could be exploited as the Garda retained the top 6m for their own use and all of the towers have O2 E1 backhaul from them.

Again it begs the question as to how enthusiastic the new 3.5GHz wireless licencees are about leaving Dublin where the wireless internet market is in the early stages. €50k for an STM-1 out of Limerick say and another €50k for Cork, Galway and Waterford, throw in say €5-€15k per year tower rental and there's no way they will leave Dublin.

thegills

spongebob · 17-12-2003 5:45pm

Originally posted by thegills
True, ESB have towers in urban locations, however in most instances O2 have taken the top 6m and anything below is not much use unless the tower is in a good location. O2 have loads of E1 backhaul available but they currently lease it to commercial customers as VPN's.
The O2 / Garda deal though could be exploited as the Garda retained the top 6m for their own use and all of the towers have O2 E1 backhaul from them.

thegills

In another thread (which regrettably degenerated into a pointless Urban Rural squabble) I pointed out that the net effect of the 3.5Gzh licences , taken with the Eirocm DSL plan , would be that commercial BB 512-1Mbit I know ) would be available in 15% of the state along with 20% DSL availability. The non commercial areas would appear to be about 65% of the state.

I am minded to point out that while the towers basically exist there are a couple of problems.

1. The backhaul pricing
2. The footprint pricing !

Tower access charges are often based on the typical Mobile Sector Antenna which takes up about 2M vertically , allowing a bit of space around it. No wonder some parts of the tower, the higher parts , are reserved.

a) FWA antennae only tend to take up about .5m , they have a much lower footprint .
b) They can often be placed lower on the towers on the sub prime parts.
c) Not every WISP should have access, there should be a '1 good plan per tower' criterion with a weighting scheme that does not discriminate in favour of Groups Data schemes and against commercial operators .

These factors should all be included in the Access Regime to which the Minister should give due and urgent consideration IMO . Naturally, me being me, I have a solution to all of these problems

which would involve a special project team , funded by the minister and attached to the MSE to evaluate all schemes for a given mast, rank them and offer the preferentailly rated footprint on the mast to the best project , second best , etc etc in that order.

M

wexfordman · 18-12-2003 1:07am

Again it begs the question as to how enthusiastic the new 3.5GHz wireless licencees are about leaving Dublin where the wireless internet market is in the early stages. €50k for an STM-1 out of Limerick say and another €50k for Cork, Galway and Waterford, throw in say €5-€15k per year tower rental and there's no way they will leave Dublin.

Gills, 50k for an STM-1 should give enough backhaul capacity for loads of different BB providers Lets say IBB have an STM-1 out of Cork, they could easily share this with other providers to split the cost. Alternatively, they could combine Cork and Limerick onto the same backhaul link and split the STM-1 between the 2 cities. You'd have to provide a link form Cork to Limerick, but it would be a hell of a lot cheaper than paying for 2 STM-1's to Dublin for Cork and Limerick. Christ, and 8Meg link from Cork to Limerick would be loads and even an STM-1 to Dublin is probably overkill too.

IBB are building there own SDH ring in dublin, and even for Dublin city, I think the capacity of the IBB dublin ring is still SUB-STM-1, so if they dont need a full STM-1 for Dublin, its unlikely they will need anything like this to link up the cities.

Also, I think 15k is a bit on the high side for tower space for a couple of panel antenna's. Even if mobile operators pay near this amount, like for like comparisons would not really apply, as it depends on the space, location of the mast etc. In a prime city centre location your gonna pay a lot more than more rural areas and small towns.

Wexfordman

bminish · 18-12-2003 8:27am

Originally posted by Muck

c) Not every WISP should have access, there should be a '1 good plan per tower' criterion with a weighting scheme that does not discriminate in favour of Groups Data schemes and against commercial operators .

M

I agree with everything else but I don't see the need to limit to 1 good plan per tower where the various plans are using different bits of spectrum. This really has to be looked at on a case by case basis.

For example there is no reason why 3.5 Ghz operators in the same area can't share tower space since they will be on different blocks due to their licensed blocks.

Another example would be a group data scheme could use a tower for a 5.8 P to P link even with another commercial 5.8 Operator on the same tower, it may even (depending on both operator's capacity requirements ) be possible to have 2 operators running access nodes on 5.8 from the same site as long as everyone is sensible about it.

On 2.4 Ghz there is a lot less room but again it should be possible for a GDS to run a P to P 802.11b link on the same site as a commercial operator using FHSS (Alavaron etc) providing that the GDS uses a nice narrow beamwidth antenna and the commercial operator leaves out that slice of the spectrum on the sector the overlaps the P to P link

It's a spectrum coordination issue between the various parties and a willingness to coordinate with other WISP operators should be a requirement if going on 'publicly' owned structures. It's already a requirement for most commercial structures.

In cases where coordination between operators fails, a ' headbanging ' division (please NOT comreg!) could be brought in to make best practice recommendations which are then published with a view to avoiding future similar issues.

.Brendan

ESB to reduce Wholesale Broadband Rates

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