Ahern looks into Eircom price hike

-Wheeler- · 14-01-2004 5:41pm #1

Just up on the RTE website (16:34).

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0114/eircom.html

January 14, 2004

(16:34) The Minister for Communications, Dermot Ahern, says he is prepared to intervene if evidence is found of anti-competitive practices in the telecommunications market.

Mr Ahern was responding to yesterday's decision by Eircom to increase telephone line rental charges to just over €24 a month.

The minister said pricing was a matter for ComReg, but he retained the power to intervene in the market and was looking closely at the latest price rise.

He said he would not tolerate any 'squeezing out' of the opposition by Eircom.

Valentia · 14-01-2004 6:02pm

He's going to be on 5 7 Live in a few minutes!

Go on ya good thing!

vinnyfitz · 14-01-2004 7:03pm

Heard Dermot on RTE (5.25)
He knows he has to act and does not seem to know quite what to do.
Phil will not be too frightned by his threat that users will dump their land lines and go exclusively mobile.

Dermot needs to give ComReg 2 instructions.

1 To remove the line rental fee from the "basket" of charges Eircon and Com Reg agree price increases on. If he does not do that why would Eircom ever increase th eprice of anything else again - why would they not simply dump all price increases on line rental?

2. To make Eircon publicise the disadvantaged scheme which is patently a secret (as well as a pretty mediocre deal).

IOFFL should remind Dermot of at least 4 (?) reasons why consumers can not just dump their land line:

1. We need them to access other Telcos voice services
2. We need them to access other Telcos data services - we are not going to use our mobiles to go on-line fo rsome time yet.
3. You can't have a monitored burglar alarm without a land-line
4. You can't have a Sky (Digital?) without a landline
5. Can you have one of those monitor things for the aged and infirm without a landline at each end?

Mr_Man · 14-01-2004 7:08pm

of Ahren doing anything positive about the Eircom line rental issue. I listened to the 5-7 live piece and he was very careful to say that he will/can only intervene if Eircom are doing something anti-competitive (which will be hard to prove even if we know its what is happening).

M.

Xian · 14-01-2004 11:56pm

Originally posted by vinnyfitz
IOFFL should remind Dermot of at least 4 (?) reasons why consumers can not just dump their land line:

1. We need them to access other Telcos voice services
2. We need them to access other Telcos data services - we are not going to use our mobiles to go on-line fo rsome time yet.
3. You can't have a monitored burglar alarm without a land-line
4. You can't have a Sky (Digital?) without a landline
5. Can you have one of those monitor things for the aged and infirm without a landline at each end?

None of these issues are relevant to Internet access. You should raise these with the Telecoms User Group (and good luck!

)

The relevance of this to Internet access is that the majority of phone users and, by extension, the majority of Internet users, currently have no choice but to pay this increase because of Eircom's monopoly at the last mile*. For this to be resolved, wireless needs to be promoted to provide an alternative through making affordable, open-access backhaul available nationwide, as we pointed out in our press release.

* I'll be a happy man when I don't have to regurgitate newspeak like that, I can tell you!

dahamsta · 15-01-2004 12:14am

Xian, I'm honestly trying my best to be supportive of IrelandOffline these days, but this kind of thing makes it very hard. Are you saying that IrelandOffline has no more to say about Local Loop Unbundling? Nothing to say about wholesale line provisioning? Wireless is not the catch-all answer to Ireland's Internet problems, no matter how many times you tell us that the dozen or two dozen (or whatever) people that went to the IrelandOffline AGM agreed on it as a way forward.

I'm not saying you're tossing it aside, but when you keep parroting it like this, that's what it starts to sound like. Last mile delivery via the existing copper network is, like it or not, currently the most successful method of delivering broadband to people's homes and businesses. Wireless is as yet almost a nonentity. Moreover, if Comreg and Gov.ie could be convinced to force Eircom to bring their prices down, it would as viable if not more viable than wireless for fast rollout to the rest of the nation.

And that's why vinnyfitz's points aren't just important, they're /extremely/ important. Like it or not, we /need/ LLU, we /need/ bitstream and we /need/ wholesale lines. Please remember that and work on it. If IrelandOffline doesn't have enough manpower to work on it, ask for help. I'm sure there are a few people out there that would be only too happy to do so, particularly right now.

[I don't have much time myself because I'm busy with setting up EFF Ireland, but if there's something specific I can do, I'd love to help.]

adam

spongebob · 15-01-2004 12:28am

Originally posted by dahamsta

And that's why vinnyfitz's points are just important, they're /extremely/ important. Like it or not, we /need/ LLU, we /need/ bitstream and we /need/ wholesale lines. Please remember that and work on it. If IrelandOffline doesn't have enough manpower to work on it, ask for help. I'm sure there are a few people out there that would be only too happy to do so, particularly right now.

adam

For the benefit of the majority Adam and therefore an objective in itself. A proper Wireless access policy is important to a sizeable minority (such as I) and shoud be progressed in tandem. BOTH policies together constitute a schema for UNIVERSAL BB access which is wholly consistent with IoffL's raison d'etre.

While much of the LLU at €14.20 issue appears to be sub-judice that does not mean that IoffL should not have a team to progress a strong and consistent policy on all of

Wholesale Line Rental (Single Billing)
Bitstream (Port Rental rather than Loop rental)
LLU (Loop Rental)

These will be the main connection paths to the Net for the foreseeable future while MuckCorp(prop Muck) works out universal FTTH. They DO deserve a dedicated lobby group . There are many contributors around who could provide valuable input to such a policy position ..... and should concentrate only on such a policy . It could re-energise some lapsed (and missed ) contributors of yore .

M

dahamsta · 15-01-2004 12:45am

Obviously I fully support IrelandOffline's drive for the promotion of wireless access, I simply feel that it is misguided to concentrate on it too heavily. As Muck suggests, I feel that both angles need equal amounts of attention. Concentrating on one or the other will result in puberty. Sorry, I mean dropped balls.

I'd jump at the chance of an alternative last mile if I could lob my calls onto it too, but it's just not possible at the moment. Out of all the people on this board, who do you think would most like to stick their current last mile delivery mechanism up Tony O'Reilly's last mile delivery mechanism?

adam

Ripwave · 15-01-2004 12:52am

Originally posted by Muck
Wholesale Line Rental (Single Billing)

ComReg specified a price for WLR of ~92% of the retail price should apply for the first year. But, to the best of my knowledge, the WLR scheme published last June does not specify what the price in subsequent years will be, or how it will be decided. And, despite the fact that WLR still doesn't "exist" in any meaningful form, I expect the clock to run out on that "first year" in June of this year.

Unless someone has a clear indication from ComReg to the contrary, I'm more than a little bit concerned that the cost of WLR from June will be €19.98 (plus an "administrative charge" of €26, apparently).

WLR, I'm beginning to think, is like the infamous "Vulnerable Users Scheme", another sick joke that Etain rubber stamped before dumping the lot on her successors desks.

dahamsta · 15-01-2004 12:59am

Originally posted by Ripwave
WLR, I'm beginning to think, is like the infamous "Vulnerable Users Scheme", another sick joke that Etain rubber stamped before dumping the lot on her successors desks.

<BA>Pity the fool.</BA>

Remind me, is Etain staying on as a Commissioner? I seem to remember she is but I can't find a reference to it (bar on the ComReg site).

Couldn't get a job Etain, eh? Surprise surprise.

adam

yellum · 15-01-2004 1:01am

Originally posted by Xian
None of these issues are relevant to Internet access. You should raise these with the Telecoms User Group (and good luck!

And thats where IOFFL lost the plot.

Moriarty · 15-01-2004 1:01am

She was attempting a takeover of hollywood last i heard.

spongebob · 15-01-2004 1:04am

Etain has gone off to NY to learn how Connemara Slasher flicks are made. If she ever ever shows up in Connemara where the films are actually made then she will have a rude awakening the next time they ask me to do a bit of script doctoring for Them ....which happens about once a year Etain I'll have you know.

/me feels the creative sap rising already at the thought! anyone remember the basic plot of At Swim Two Birds

?

M

dahamsta · 15-01-2004 1:17am

Someone throw a bucket of water over Muck quick, he's speaking in tongues.

spongebob · 15-01-2004 1:27am

At Swim Two Birds is the Hiberno Irish Kafka Novel by Flann O Brien. It is creepily close to a Comreg Reply to Consultation in its overall construction.

A wild concoction involving a completely disjointed narrative, multiple points of view, farce, satire, and parody, this "novel" offers any student of Irish literature unlimited subject matter--and equally unlimited laughs.

More Here and Here but at least the book is funny. Etain isn't.

M

sceptre · 15-01-2004 1:40am

Originally posted by Muck
If she ever ever shows up in Connemara where the films are actually made then

What, like Cong*? GF's in Galway for the year -she's under explicit instructions to visit Cong and ask if it's the town where they made that movie about the chap who slaps his wife around. The challenge involves getting her Starlet out of the town before it gets burned.

*yeah, yeah, I know Cong isn't in Connemara or even Galway but Oughterard is.
PS I love Connemara. Us Cork types aren't all that cultured - all we have movie-wise is Moby Dick (which I believe is some kind of porno made in the fifties about a guy who wants to be called Ishmael who was well-built and sailed the seven seas)

sceptre · 15-01-2004 1:46am

On-topic...

He said he would not tolerate any 'squeezing out' of the opposition by Eircom.

Hardly a secret but this is exactly what they seem to be doing. As long as Dermot is aware of the possibility there's a chance he might do something about it. Getting line rental outside of that basket of prices (I assume Etain was the nutter who let that one go?) would be something of a start. However, the problem still remains - if line rental is merely removed from the list, Eircom can actually raise prices for calls AND line rental and remain inside their ultra-secret agreement with Comreg. As long as we're forced to deal with Eircom when getting a phone line they're going to screw the customer. Even having simple competition on line rental with Esat probably won't solve the problem - they haven't exactly set the world on fire with their call competition.

Sarsfield · 15-01-2004 2:26am

Surely using a monopoly product (line rental) to cross-subsidise a competing product (calls) can't be legal? Simple as that. Surely?

As an aside, I've checked my last few phone bills and haven't made more than €5 of calls in any 2-month billing period! I'll be applying for the Vulnerable User scheme tomorrow!

spongebob · 15-01-2004 2:31am

apply to the man himself, phil.nolan@eircom.ie , Biddy does not do vulnerable.

M

Sarsfield · 15-01-2004 2:37am

Why was it called 'vulnerable' in the first place? That was ComRegs invention, not Eircoms? I'd actually heard of it before but due to the name I assumed it was reserved for little old ladies out in the boonies who didn't make many calls but might need to call the doctor/guards/offspring etc. in an emergency.

Valentia · 15-01-2004 2:54am

anyone remember the basic plot of At Swim Two Birds

All I remember, I think, is that you have to be able to keep your breath underwater for a long time, know the bible, slap yourself on the back a good few times ( St. Augustine) be prepared to have your head served on a platter ( John the

speak in tongues and drink loads of Jameson like Brian O Nolan.

Myles to go before I sleep.

We'll skip the molecular theory, there's enough bikes around already!

Jazus, there's nothin like a few pints to bring back the old schooldays. And as Primetime would say " There's no turd policemen around tonight".

Thanks Muck for draging us back to "reality".

Valentia

mike65 · 15-01-2004 8:06pm

If I thought it had a cat in hells chance of happening I'd suggest that the infrastucture should be owned by the state..or failing that a co-operative of user telcos....:eek: :ninja:

Mike.

Ripwave · 15-01-2004 8:30pm

Originally posted by mike65
If I thought it had a cat in hells chance of happening I'd suggest that the infrastucture should be owned by the state..or failing that a co-operative of user telcos

How about suggesting that oreillycom be barred from offering retail telecommunications services?

fatherdougalmag · 15-01-2004 9:46pm

Probably wouldn't get much support in a free-market. Govt. need to step in and buy the network back. The the playing field is level with everyone offering CPS only. After all, the tax payer did pay for it all initially. We should have a reclaim the line campaign or something.

Ripwave · 15-01-2004 10:17pm

Originally posted by fatherdougalmag
Probably wouldn't get much support in a free-market.

Why not? That's what they did in the US, and you don't get much more free market than that!
(When Ma bell was broken up, the local "Baby Bells" weren't allowed offer long distance services and the long distance providers weren't allowed provide local services. It's changed since then, but only after it had the impact it was supposed to have).

All that's really needed is real walls between the "wholesale" and "retail" arms of oreillycom, such that favouring "oreillycom retail" doesn't benefit the wholesale arm, and putting artifical barriers in the way of other retail providers doesn't bring any benefit. This "free market Govt" seems to be well able to impose "special" taxes on market sectors, so it shouldn't be beyond it's wit (if it has the will) to impose a tax on the telecommunications sector that is structured in such a way that it penalises oreillycom for not seperating the retail and wholesale arms.

Govt. need to step in and buy the network back. The the playing field is level with everyone offering CPS only. After all, the tax payer did pay for it all initially. We should have a reclaim the line campaign or something.

That's not going to happen. But the Government can probably use any planned floating of the company to force a split. (If only by threatening the sort of punitive levies that would make a flotation unattractive to the market).

The real question is the "how". If there's a will to "fix" the problem, then a way can be found to make it happen. The problem is that it's not clear that there's a will.

You'll start to see Local Government candidates on your doorsteps soon. Make sure that the PD and FF candidates know that you're not going to vote for them if something isn't doen about oreillycom. (You can say what you like to the others - the way our "democracy" is structured, the other parties just go along to collect their paychecks, and have no role in running the country).

fatherdougalmag · 15-01-2004 10:34pm

All that's really needed is real walls between the "wholesale" and "retail" arms of oreillycom

I'd go a step further and butcher it altogether. We'd probably only end up paying for another tribunal down the road investigating any behind-the-counter jiggery-pokery. It needs to be a transparent split so everyone can see that the two are separate.

But the Government can probably use any planned floating of the company to force a split.

That's pretty much what I had in mind. There's no way they can just get out of bed in the morning and take it all back. The opportunity would have to arise and the only chance would be if/when any flotation takes place.

(You can say what you like to the others - the way our "democracy" is structured, the other parties just go along to collect their paychecks, and have no role in running the country).

One would nearly think that's how FF/PDs are operating these days as well. The opposition needs a flag to wave and this might be it. But then, it seems that no matter how much noise is made on this or other comm's issues, it falls on deaf or near-deaf ears.

Ahern looks into Eircom price hike

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