Tipperary / Offaly border

EunanMac · 28-08-2014 12:31pm #1

Did the border between Tipperary / Offaly ever change ?
I don't know the area at all.
I've a very old uncle who lives outside Roscrea, in an area called Mount Butler / Ballaghmore, and he said that although it's officially in Offaly now, he claims it was once in Tipperary and that he's definitely a Tipperary man. So he was born in Tipperary, but officially lives in Offaly now, and never moved a day in his life !

ReacherCreature · 28-08-2014 1:55pm

Depending on how old "very old" is, a spot of gerrymandering perhaps?

GerB40 · 28-08-2014 1:58pm

Moneygall is in Offaly but the hurling club is considered North Tipp.. But yeah, I have nayra clue kid..

MentalMario · 28-08-2014 4:25pm

GerB40 wrote: »

Moneygall is in Offaly but the hurling club is considered North Tipp.. But yeah, I have nayra clue kid..

What county would the people of Moneygall support, in general?

Like it would be odd if the majority of Moneygall GAA supported Offaly.

EunanMac · 28-08-2014 4:50pm

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Depending on how old "very old" is, a spot of gerrymandering perhaps?

ah no, it was official like according to him, his postal address used to be co. tipp and was officially changed to co. offaly back in the 40's/50's as far as I know

GerB40 · 28-08-2014 7:00pm

MentalMario wrote: »

What county would the people of Moneygall support, in general?

Like it would be odd if the majority of Moneygall GAA supported Offaly.

I have cousins in Moneygall and they're all Offaly through and through.. If you drive through the village it's Offaly flags, not Tipp ones you'll see. (Actually it's mostly American flags these days but ya get what I mean)..

I might be wrong here but I think the hurling field (therefore the club itself) might technically be on Tipperary soil, hence the confusing situation.

EunanMac · 28-08-2014 7:14pm

Would it be common in that neck of the woods for people who were technically always living in one county to consider themselves actually part of the neighbouring county. Maybe the old uncle was always technically from Offaly ? Maybe in times gone by his family didn't want to be technically from 'kings' county or something, I don't know. He's a fearce man for Tipp in the hurling as well.

GerB40 · 28-08-2014 7:22pm

EunanMac wrote: »

Would it be common in that neck of the woods for people who were technically always living in one county to consider themselves actually part of the neighbouring county. Maybe the old uncle was always technically from Offaly ? Maybe he didn't want to be from 'kings' county or something, I don't know. He's a fearce man for Tipp in the hurling as well.

I joked with one of my cousins (him being from Offaly, me being from Tipperary) about the bad state of Offaly hurling. He just laughed it off saying "we were born on the wrong side of the border alright".

To answer your question, perhaps some would cling onto the Tipp side of Offaly but my impression was that they're loyal and supportive of their county..

cnoc · 28-08-2014 7:22pm

EunanMac wrote: »

Would it be common in that neck of the woods for people who were technically always living in one county to consider themselves actually part of the neighbouring county. Maybe the old uncle was always technically from Offaly ? Maybe in times gone by his family didn't want to be technically from 'kings' county or something, I don't know. He's a fearce man for Tipp in the hurling as well.

Did you check the 1911 Census of Ireland?

Xenophile · 28-08-2014 7:59pm

This well known Estate Agent gives his address as Mount Butler, Roscrea, County Tipperary.

http://victormitchell.com/may2014.pdf

DEFTLEFTHAND · 29-08-2014 2:15am

GerB40 wrote: »

I have cousins in Moneygall and they're all Offaly through and through.. If you drive through the village it's Offaly flags, not Tipp ones you'll see. (Actually it's mostly American flags these days but ya get what I mean)..

I might be wrong here but I think the hurling field (therefore the club itself) might be technically on Tipperary soil, hence the confusing situation.

Yep that's right the hurling field is in Tipperary. Moneygall is right on the border.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 29-08-2014 2:23am

EunanMac wrote: »

Would it be common in that neck of the woods for people who were technically always living in one county to consider themselves actually part of the neighbouring county. Maybe the old uncle was always technically from Offaly ? Maybe in times gone by his family didn't want to be technically from 'kings' county or something, I don't know. He's a fearce man for Tipp in the hurling as well.

Yeah I've seen that, especially in people who live on the outskirts of Roscrea. Most I've met consider themselves to be from Tipp even though their actual address may be in Offaly or even Laois if they're from the Ballaghmore side.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 29-08-2014 2:39am

Xenophile wrote: »

This well known Estate Agent gives his address as Mount Butler, Roscrea, County Tipperary.

http://victormitchell.com/may2014.pdf

That's the postal address, the border if you know the old N7 into Roscrea is at the railway bridge near the Golf Club. Victor Mitchell's property is before that so it's either in Laois or Offaly I'm not sure, it's quite confusing.

Nearby Ballaghmore Castle I know for sure is in Laois.

Xenophile · 29-08-2014 6:26am

Thanks,

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

That's the postal address, the border if you know the old N7 into Roscrea is at the railway bridge near the Golf Club. Victor Mitchell's property is before that so it's either in Laois or Offaly I'm not sure, it's quite confusing.

Nearby Ballaghmore Castle I know for sure is in Laois.

I suggest that the OP gives the Estate Agent a call, I am sure given the nature of his business he will only be too glad to help as it can only lead to good publicity.

ReacherCreature · 29-08-2014 9:21am

Could it be a cultural thing, a sense of place? Like one group might say they're from Offaly and that thought process could be handed down generations and it quickly becomes lore and a part of their identity as to where they are from.

EunanMac · 29-08-2014 10:38am

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Yeah I've seen that, especially in people who live on the outskirts of Roscrea. Most I've met consider themselves to be from Tipp even though their actual address may be in Offaly or even Laois if they're from the Ballaghmore side.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

That's the postal address, the border if you know the old N7 into Roscrea is at the railway bridge near the Golf Club. Victor Mitchell's property is before that so it's either in Laois or Offaly I'm not sure, it's quite confusing.

Nearby Ballaghmore Castle I know for sure is in Laois.

Xenophile wrote: »

Thanks,

I suggest that the OP gives the Estate Agent a call, I am sure given the nature of his business he will only be too glad to help as it can only lead to good publicity.

Looks like it's the done thing in that area so.
Thanks for the info folks, I didn't want to bother the old uncle with all these young one style questions as he's getting on a bit now, or to look like I'm making enquiries about him, I was just curious. I'll be supporting tipp in the hurling so.

GerB40 · 29-08-2014 10:58am

EunanMac wrote: »

Looks like it's the done thing in that area so.
Thanks for the info folks, I didn't want to bother the old uncle with all these young one style questions as he's getting on a bit now, or to look like I'm making enquiries about him, I was just curious. I'll be supporting tipp in the hurling so.

Regardless of the border, Tipp is the wiser choice;-)

mikeymouse · 29-08-2014 7:12pm

if you look at osi mapviewer 25" and compare with google present day
I don't think it's changed around there .I could be wrong there, but worth a look

maniac2003 · 01-09-2014 8:49pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

That's the postal address, the border if you know the old N7 into Roscrea is at the railway bridge near the Golf Club. Victor Mitchell's property is before that so it's either in Laois or Offaly I'm not sure, it's quite confusing.

Nearby Ballaghmore Castle I know for sure is in Laois.

I think all three counties meet at that bridge

maniac2003 · 01-09-2014 8:53pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

That's the postal address, the border if you know the old N7 into Roscrea is at the railway bridge near the Golf Club. Victor Mitchell's property is before that so it's either in Laois or Offaly I'm not sure, it's quite confusing.

Nearby Ballaghmore Castle I know for sure is in Laois.

killavilla hurling club right beside that auctioneer play in offaly. straight across the road was kilavilla soccer pitch a staple of the north Tipp leagues for many a year

realdanbreen · 01-09-2014 10:31pm

It may just be a postal address thing.EG,Aglish(which is in the parish of Borrisokane)has a postal address'aglish,Roscrea,Co Tipperary. Also there have been a lot of hurlers down the years from Moneygall,Co Offaly, who have lined out for Tipp.

dollydishmop · 02-09-2014 5:25pm

We've a small place just outside Moneygall. On the map its in Tipp, but the postal address is Offaly.

I would imagine its the postal district that has changed over the years, and not the physical border, so to speak.

tiff21396 · 17-05-2015 10:20am

When travelling from Roscrea out the Dublin Road, the railway bridge is in Co Tipperary. Then half way along the road frontage on the field on the right (belonging to Victor Mitchell) there is a dip in the road where the Tipperary County Council stopped and this is the border not Co Offaly, towns land Cooleshall. The road to the left into Kilavilla is all Co Offaly. Then after the hurling field on the right, you cross into Co Laois. So Offaly is a short section of the main road. Ballaghmore is definitely all Co Laois.

realdanbreen · 17-05-2015 12:53pm

Well they have put most of Lower Ormond(about 10,00 people) into Offaly for future elections. Trying to make BIFFO's out of us won't work! We are BIFFT's and proud of it. Seriously, it's causing all sorts of bitterness there with some people threatening to picket the polling stations.

GerB40 · 17-05-2015 2:15pm

It'll be a cold day in hell before I'm a fúckin Offaly man...

Clonmel1000 · 18-05-2015 7:29pm

Hon Tipp so it into the Biffos....

Tippman24 · 25-12-2022 8:04pm

I was told a while ago that the part of Co Offaly taking in Moneygall and Shinrone etc was once part of Tipp. This was back in the 1500s around the time of the plantation of Laois/Offaly. There was not enough land for the plans set out so a part of Tipp was annexed into Offaly. I must do some research on it.

dublincc2 · 16-07-2023 2:37pm

All of the southwest salient of Co. Offaly was part of Co. Tipperary before the plantations of Mary I. They were part of an area called Ely O’Carroll country, nowadays the baronies of Clonlisk and Ballybritt. Birr for example was once a Tipperary town. Here is a map of north Tipp before Offaly was created:

Mantis Toboggan · 16-07-2023 2:50pm

What year would this have changed?

dublincc2 · 17-07-2023 2:13am

1606.

dublincc2 · 17-07-2023 2:17am

This is Co. Tipperary at its largest extent:

Tipperary / Offaly border

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