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Ex is getting married, what happens with my kid's second name?

  • 13-05-2015 12:37pm
    #1
    jiltloop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,205 ✭✭✭


    Hi, I'm not sure if this the right place to post this so redirect me if it's not. This is quite a complicated situation, I'll try and give a brief outline before asking my questions.

    I met my ex a number of years ago and she had an 18month old daughter at the time, we were in a relationship for about 4 years during which time we had a son and I basically became her daughter's father. We split up over 2 years ago and since then I have seen both kids every week and she is happy for me to continue to be my daughter's Dad, I take both of them together and they stay overnight with me every second weekend.

    My ex is currently in a relationship with someone for less than a year and is planning on marrying him in a few months. Currently the kids have her second name only since we were never married. My question is, if she takes her fiancé's second name how does that affect my kids second names? I would hate for them to take his second name and I don't know what legal standing is on this.

    If she decides that she wants their second names to change also or if this happens by default, can I prevent this from happening?

    Any help would be much appreciated.


Comments

  • #2
    desbrook
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭desbrook


    Did you become either child's legal gaurdian?


  • #3
    jiltloop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,205 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    I am my biological son's legal guardian but not my daughter's at the moment.


  • #4
    desbrook
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭desbrook


    jiltloop wrote: »
    I am my biological son's legal guardian but not my daughter's at the moment.

    You say you would hate for them to have the future husband's name. In the scheme of things is this really that important and are there even indications that this change is desired or likely ?

    Please consider not the strict legalities but what's important - actual human relations between you - three adults and two children. That's what you did when you took the little girl under your wing and what your ex did when she allowed you to take the two children for access. You both put the kids first and tried to actin a harmonious way.

    This new guy is probably doing the same. If the kids fall and cut their knee or need help with homework I'm sure hes helping even though strictly speaking he doesn't have to.

    This is a period of change and your focus needs to be on maintaining your relationship with the kids and being on good terms with the two other adults who in fairness do a lot of caring for them. Don't let yourself be labelled the jealous ex and risk losing what you have . Guard what's important .


  • #5
    jiltloop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,205 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    desbrook wrote: »
    You say you would hate for them to have the future husband's name. In the scheme of things is this really that important and are there even indications that this change is desired or likely ?

    Please consider not the strict legalities but what's important - actual human relations between you - three adults and two children. That's what you did when you took the little girl under your wing and what your ex did when she allowed you to take the two children for access. You both put the kids first and tried to actin a harmonious way.

    This new guy is probably doing the same. If the kids fall and cut their knee or need help with homework I'm sure hes helping even though strictly speaking he doesn't have to.

    This is a period of change and your focus needs to be on maintaining your relationship with the kids and being on good terms with the two other adults who in fairness do a lot of caring for them. Don't let yourself be labelled the jealous ex and risk losing what you have . Guard what's important .

    Hi Desbrook, I appreciate the advice but I'm fully aware who provides the majority of care to my children and I wouldn't let this situation jeopardise my relationship with my kids. I was more looking for legal advice rather than moral. I would like to have as much knowledge from a legal point of view before I broach the subject with the ex, I know how to handle it from that point onwards as in I can make a judgement call at that point based on her reaction. I just want to be fully informed.


  • #6
    Taltos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    Mod Note:
    OP - we can't give you legal advice here, if that is all you really need we'll have to close this and recommend you contact your solicitor.
    Also, our posters here take time out of their day to give their suggestions based on their experience, you might think that this is moralising but they are in fact trying to help others who may be facing similar challenges to them. Support is what we're all about here. Please consider that before becoming defensive on well intentioned and thoughtful advice.


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  • #7
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    In Ireland you can change your name by common usage so she wouldnt have to do anything legally to change the kids names, she could just start using whatever surname she wanted them to have in school - it doesnt matter what is on the birth certificate is what I mean. After a few years of common usage can be proven the new name is legally the name.

    If she wanted to change the names legally, by deed poll for example, I think she would need your consent for your son but not for her daughter.

    If she is having more children with the new husband she may want the whole family to have one surname as she may perceive it is easier for kids in school etc...

    Personally I wouldnt be getting too hung up on it. You love her daughter like a daughter and she hasnt got your name? The love and relationship you have with the kids wont change even if the names do.

    Not to put you on the defensive but why does this worry you?


  • #8
    jiltloop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,205 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    Taltos wrote: »
    Mod Note:
    OP - we can't give you legal advice here, if that is all you really need we'll have to close this and recommend you contact your solicitor.
    Also, our posters here take time out of their day to give their suggestions based on their experience, you might think that this is moralising but they are in fact trying to help others who may be facing similar challenges to them. Support is what we're all about here. Please consider that before becoming defensive on well intentioned and thoughtful advice.

    Absolutely I appreciate that. I didn't want to come across as defensive at all, I actually reworded my post a few times to avoid coming across that way, obviously I should have reworded a bit better! Apologies, all advice is welcome.


  • #9
    jiltloop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,205 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    MrWalsh wrote: »
    In Ireland you can change your name by common usage so she wouldnt have to do anything legally to change the kids names, she could just start using whatever surname she wanted them to have in school - it doesnt matter what is on the birth certificate is what I mean. After a few years of common usage can be proven the new name is legally the name.

    If she wanted to change the names legally, by deed poll for example, I think she would need your consent for your son but not for her daughter.

    If she is having more children with the new husband she may want the whole family to have one surname as she may perceive it is easier for kids in school etc...

    Personally I wouldnt be getting too hung up on it. You love her daughter like a daughter and she hasnt got your name? The love and relationship you have with the kids wont change even if the names do.

    Not to put you on the defensive but why does this worry you?

    I suppose it just feels wrong to me for my children to have another man's second name. Based on my ex's relationship history (4th time engaged, she's 28) I would also have concerns about the longevity of the marriage and this could mean possible changing of second name again down the line if the name is changed and things don't work out. From my point of view I would hope for the marriage to work as this is best for the kids (and me) as it means stability.

    We had also previously agreed on the kids having both our second names and we had agreed to do so by common usage as you mentioned (changing their registered names in school) but unfortunately she reneged on this agreement.

    I suppose the best option for me is to voice my wishes to the ex and see what her reaction is, she may be agreeable straight off and if not then I suppose if it gets too heated I'll just have to back off and accept the situation.

    Thanks for the advice, if anyone else wants to chip in please do so.


  • #10
    Greenmachine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭Greenmachine


    I think the OP would be best leaving well enough alone. It is terrific that he treats his ex first born like his own, and continues to see both kids. It does come across as jilted that he doesn't want the children to take someone else's surname. Even if you were getting married tomorrow, your partner could keep their name if they wanted.
    If I were the OP I would continue focusing on fostering a positive relationship, with the children and that they can continue to rely on him as a father.


  • #11
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    jiltloop wrote: »
    I suppose the best option for me is to voice my wishes to the ex and see what her reaction is, she may be agreeable straight off and if not then I suppose if it gets too heated I'll just have to back off and accept the situation.

    I think that sounds very reasonable.

    Bear in mind that when the kids are old enough they may also decide they want to take your name if its been changed. And her daughter will probably lose whatever name she has upon her own future marriage also.

    I think whoever has what name, once you keep your relationship strong with the kids - thats what counts.


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  • #12
    jiltloop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,205 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    Thanks for all the advice, yeah I think in my mind I'm a bit more relaxed about the name situation now. The relationship I have with them is the important thing. Ideally I would still like them to have my surname as part of their surname but I won't be unreasonable about it or let it get to an argument. I suppose fundamentally it is a matter of pride and pride is quite far down the list of importance in the scheme of things.


  • #13
    ShowMeTheCash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,651 ✭✭✭ShowMeTheCash


    Might be a bit late on the thread but I can give you the run down.

    Being you where never married and you say you are the legal guardian to your son I assume then you filed a joint Guardianship with you ex partner (S.I. No 5 of 1998) as even if you are the biological father and your name is on the birth cert in Ireland you are not automatically deemed the child's Guardian.

    In Ireland the mother if not married automatically becomes the child's sole guardian you need to apply to be added.

    Also being your daughter is not biologically your daughter you cannot apply for joint guardianship, technically you would need to adopt her doing this however will be less likely being you and your partner have now split up.
    Even had you married your ex you still would have had to officially adopt your daughter to ensure guardianship.


    If you ex's is now getting married it does complicate things.
    You need to assume moving forward they are going to be a family they might even have more kids the second name is not really important what might happen is the new husband will want to adopt the children in doing so they will need to contact you about this but any legal right you have is then removed.

    Something you might not want but sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture.

    Let's say 10 years down the line, your kids are in their early teens your ex partner and husband have 3 more kids.

    You ex partner continues to allow your involvement and to all extensive purposes everyone is happy with the arrangement.

    Let's say you ex partner dies?

    The husband automatically retains custody of his own kids but what happens with your son and daughter?

    These are very difficult questions I know but the courts need to think about the interests of the children and what is best of them now and in the future.


  • #14
    desbrook
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭desbrook


    It just may be that your ex has no intention of changing the kids names to this guys. Your previous experience would suggest that when push came to shove she actually wished them to keep her name.

    My hunch is that the only thing that could possibly make her change her mind is you making it an issue again. The best way of making someone do something is to tell them they can't....


  • #15
    ShowMeTheCash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,651 ✭✭✭ShowMeTheCash


    desbrook wrote: »
    It just may be that your ex has no intention of changing the kids names to this guys. Your previous experience would suggest that when push came to shove she actually wished them to keep her name.

    My hunch is that the only thing that could possibly make her change her mind is you making it an issue again. The best way of making someone do something is to tell them they can't....

    From my own experience them having their own kids could change that.
    Having 2 kids at school and perhaps another 2 kids at the same school all with different surnames is something the mother might want to avoid.

    Unless the husband agree's to either take her name and allows his own kids to take her name also.


  • #16
    jiltloop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,205 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    ShowMeTheCash wrote: »
    Might be a bit late on the thread but I can give you the run down.

    Being you where never married and you say you are the legal guardian to your son I assume then you filed a joint Guardianship with you ex partner (S.I. No 5 of 1998) as even if you are the biological father and your name is on the birth cert in Ireland you are not automatically deemed the child's Guardian.

    In Ireland the mother if not married automatically becomes the child's sole guardian you need to apply to be added.

    Also being your daughter is not biologically your daughter you cannot apply for joint guardianship, technically you would need to adopt her doing this however will be less likely being you and your partner have now split up.
    Even had you married your ex you still would have had to officially adopt your daughter to ensure guardianship.


    If you ex's is now getting married it does complicate things.
    You need to assume moving forward they are going to be a family they might even have more kids the second name is not really important what might happen is the new husband will want to adopt the children in doing so they will need to contact you about this but any legal right you have is then removed.

    Something you might not want but sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture.

    Let's say 10 years down the line, your kids are in their early teens your ex partner and husband have 3 more kids.

    You ex partner continues to allow your involvement and to all extensive purposes everyone is happy with the arrangement.

    Let's say you ex partner dies?

    The husband automatically retains custody of his own kids but what happens with your son and daughter?

    These are very difficult questions I know but the courts need to think about the interests of the children and what is best of them now and in the future.

    Thanks for the info, I was unaware that I would not be able to become a guardian to my daughter without adopting her. In fairness to my ex I think if I did ask to go ahead with an adoption I think she would support this. I'm not thinking about this at the moment as she has only recently found out that I am not her biological father and although she is handling this well and seems quite happy she is still very young (9years old). I envisage at some point in the coming years when she fully understands the situation that I may ask her if she would like for me to officially adopt her and let her decide.

    I would never agree to my son being adopted by another man, I'm guessing this could never be forced upon me? I became his legal guardian about 4 years ago. Obviously I would have less of a say over my daughter if they chose adoption for her by the step father but I don't think this will ever be a route my ex would go down.

    I suppose the main thing is being a constant presence and positive influence in their lives and if things are tumultuous in their home life at some stage in the future then I want to be the stable dependable one for them.


  • #17
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    jiltloop wrote: »
    I would never agree to my son being adopted by another man, I'm guessing this could never be forced upon me? I became his legal guardian about 4 years ago. Obviously I would have less of a say over my daughter if they chose adoption for her by the step father but I don't think this will ever be a route my ex would go down.

    No, you are his legal guardian, another man cannot adopt him without your consent.

    I think that it could be possible that the step father could want to adopt your ex's daughter. Im thinking specifically of a situation where he wishes her to have inheritance rights to his estate if he died.


  • #18
    jiltloop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,205 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    ShowMeTheCash wrote: »
    From my own experience them having their own kids could change that.
    Having 2 kids at school and perhaps another 2 kids at the same school all with different surnames is something the mother might want to avoid.

    Unless the husband agree's to either take her name and allows his own kids to take her name also.

    I'm not sure if they are planning on having kids together but if they did I don't think this would be as much of an issue as they would never be in the same school as there would be a significant age gap. My son is turning 7 in a couple of weeks and my daughter is turning 10 later this year.


  • #19
    jiltloop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,205 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    MrWalsh wrote: »
    No, you are his legal guardian, another man cannot adopt him without your consent.

    I think that it could be possible that the step father could want to adopt your ex's daughter. Im thinking specifically of a situation where he wishes her to have inheritance rights to his estate if he died.

    That's good to know. I don't even have my name on his birth cert but from what I've seen that is next to useless and the guardianship is far more powerful, best thing I ever did getting that sorted.

    I suppose with my daughter I will just have to wait 2/3 years and see how things pan out, I would like to adopt her but given the circumstances and her age I think it's better to wait and discuss it with her.


  • #20
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    jiltloop wrote: »
    That's good to know. I don't even have my name on his birth cert but from what I've seen that is next to useless and the guardianship is far more powerful, best thing I ever did getting that sorted.

    I suppose with my daughter I will just have to wait 2/3 years and see how things pan out, I would like to adopt her but given the circumstances and her age I think it's better to wait and discuss it with her.

    It might also be worth seeing how you get along with the future husband over a period of the next few years.

    A friend of mine is remarried and her second husband and first husband get along famously!! The second husband has a great relationship with the first husbands kids and the first husband dotes on the children of the second husband!

    Im not saying its all going to be a Disney movie, but certainly it might all be grand.


  • #21
    ShowMeTheCash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,651 ✭✭✭ShowMeTheCash


    jiltloop wrote: »
    That's good to know. I don't even have my name on his birth cert but from what I've seen that is next to useless and the guardianship is far more powerful, best thing I ever did getting that sorted.

    I suppose with my daughter I will just have to wait 2/3 years and see how things pan out, I would like to adopt her but given the circumstances and her age I think it's better to wait and discuss it with her.

    Just to get back to this, yes it is good you have guardianship but your ex can ask you be removed.
    It is complicated and in the end these decision come down to what is best for the children.

    Your kids are a little older than I thought, but to go back to my earlier example...

    If for the next 5 years your kids live in what is considered the family home with your ex and her husband, if you ex has more kids. And your ex was to die a court might not want to break up the family home i.e. Your son comes live with you whilst your daughter and the new kids stay with the new husband.

    Again you really do not need to worry about this right now and by the time it could become an issue I would say your kids will probably well into their teens!


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