Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

Jelle1880 · 14-02-2012 12:15pm

HMRC have asked to put Rangers into administration today, decision to follow later.

Whyte's bluff well and truly called.

meriwether · 14-02-2012 12:27pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Most importantly, if Rangers go into liquidation, as long as Whyte can hold onto Ibrox then he can lay claim Rangers 2012 who will be debt free and worth feckin millions on their day of inception.

Yes, as they start life at the bottom of Scottish Division three (if it even goes that far).

There's no way a Continuity Rangers FC (snigger) will suddenly emerge in the top division immediately.

You can't behave like Whyte is behaving and pull a fast one on the league.

Administration is a disaster for Rangers. Pompey went into Admin, and have never recovered.

You can also write off europe next season. They need to be out of admin by March to be eligible.

cruiserweight · 14-02-2012 12:34pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

HMRC have asked to put Rangers into administration today, decision to follow later.

Whyte's bluff well and truly called.

Does not seem like good news for Rangers

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17026172

RoryMac · 14-02-2012 12:53pm

meriwether wrote: »

Yes, as they start life at the bottom of Scottish Division three (if it even goes that far).

There's no way a Continuity Rangers FC (snigger) will suddenly emerge in the top division immediately.

You can't behave like Whyte is behaving and pull a fast one on the league.

Administration is a disaster for Rangers. Pompey went into Admin, and have never recovered.

You can also write off europe next season. They need to be out of admin by March to be eligible.

There will be huge pressure from the media especially to allow New Rangers FC back into the SPL if liquidation happens. They have already started the campaign in papers, on radio etc that Rangers having to start from the bottom would be the end of Scottish football. There is probably an element of truth in that IMO

Apparently the SPL rules do allow for a club to be granted entry to the top tier once the clubs vote in favour, what UEFA and FIFA would think of this is anyone's guess.

Beefy78 · 14-02-2012 12:59pm

Rangers aren't getting liquidated so the point is moot.

Insect Overlord · 14-02-2012 1:01pm

Breaking news: Paul Gascoigne has been spotted outside of Rangers ground Ibrox, with a six pack of Tennants, a fishing rod and some chicken.

karma_ · 14-02-2012 1:01pm

Beefy78 wrote: »

Rangers aren't getting liquidated so the point is moot.

Surely that would depend on what the HMRC decide to do once they become the secured creditor.

Eirebear · 14-02-2012 1:03pm

Beefy78 wrote: »

Rangers aren't getting liquidated so the point is moot.

Wish i was as confident of that as you.

Beefy78 · 14-02-2012 1:13pm

Eirebear wrote: »

Wish i was as confident of that as you.

There's nothing to suggest that Rangers won't come out of this. I think England are up to 60 Clubs now who have gone into Administration since 1997 and not many failed. Certainly none with the sort of turnover that Rangers have. You simply can't compare this situation with those of Gretna or Chester City.

Administration is about protecting the interests of the creditors. Liquidation is not in the interest of the creditors as they're not going to get their money back. The best interest of the creditors is best served by Rangers agreeing a CVA to pay back 20% or whatever of what they owe and then allowing them to exit Administration with outgoings that the club can afford.

HMRC are aggressive on this now because of what happened with Leeds. They won't allow clubs to use their tax liabilities to fund working capital and they won't allow Rangers to take the piss with what they pay back as Leeds did. As a point of principle they are deeply offended by the Football Creditors Rule however at the end of the day they're there to protect the interest of the Treasury and the interest of the Treasury are not best served by forcing Rangers out of business.

Eirebear · 14-02-2012 1:17pm

I get what your saying, but if (and it's a big if) Rangers are hit with a tax bill of 75m then i have absolutely no idea where that is coming from.

I am not savvy enough on these things to really comment, but it seems to me that everything about Rangers is an absolute mess at the moment.
I've never trusted Whyte, and those worries seem to be coming to fruition. Now we're getting stories about Murray waiting in the wings with a buy back clause.

It all seems extremely convaluted and desperate at the moment, and that worries me a lot.

Jelle1880 · 14-02-2012 1:22pm

Beefy78 wrote: »

There's nothing to suggest that Rangers won't come out of this. I think England are up to 60 Clubs now who have gone into Administration since 1997 and not many failed. Certainly none with the sort of turnover that Rangers have. You simply can't compare this situation with those of Gretna or Chester City.

Administration is about protecting the interests of the creditors. Liquidation is not in the interest of the creditors as they're not going to get their money back. The best interest of the creditors is best served by Rangers agreeing a CVA to pay back 20% or whatever of what they owe and then allowing them to exit Administration with outgoings that the club can afford.

HMRC are aggressive on this now because of what happened with Leeds. They won't allow clubs to use their tax liabilities to fund working capital and they won't allow Rangers to take the piss with what they pay back as Leeds did. As a point of principle they are deeply offended by the Football Creditors Rule however at the end of the day they're there to protect the interest of the Treasury and the interest of the Treasury are not best served by forcing Rangers out of business.

We're not talking about simple administration anymore, the threat of liquidation is real now.

bobbysands81 · 14-02-2012 1:25pm

Eirebear wrote: »

I get what your saying, but if (and it's a big if) Rangers are hit with a tax bill of 75m then i have absolutely no idea where that is coming from.

I am not savvy enough on these things to really comment, but it seems to me that everything about Rangers is an absolute mess at the moment.
I've never trusted Whyte, and those worries seem to be coming to fruition. Now we're getting stories about Murray waiting in the wings with a buy back clause.

It all seems extremely convaluted and desperate at the moment, and that worries me a lot.

I don't think that "buy back" clause exists as you think it does mate.

Is Murray not broke himself now?

...and I don't think the £75m is that big an "if" mate, Whyte himself said it last night.

KeithAFC · 14-02-2012 1:26pm

Could be back to playing on the local park like the pioneers.

Beefy78 · 14-02-2012 1:28pm

Eirebear wrote: »

I get what your saying, but if (and it's a big if) Rangers are hit with a tax bill of 75m then i have absolutely no idea where that is coming from.

Well it isn't coming from anywhere, which is exactly the reason why both Rangers and HMRC are now pushing for Administration. Rangers have no way of paying a tax bill of that sort of money.

Once they're in administration, the administrator will come take over the running of the business and do what he can to make it a sustainable entity. With the transfer window closed, essentially that would mean reducing outgoings which would mean sacking people (not the players).

The Administrator then will look to find someone to buy the Club (or rather take on the debt). Once a buyer, or a number of buyers, are found they'll attempt to reach agreement with the various creditors to accept a certain number of pence to the pound of debt (a CVA) and if that is reached then they'll exist administration (in theory a stronger entity which should be able to manage its cashflow better.

Who owns Ibrox? Because that's where things start getting complicated.

Beefy78 · 14-02-2012 1:29pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

We're not talking about simple administration anymore, the threat of liquidation is real now.

Why? How is liquidation in HMRC's interest and why is what Rangers are going through so different to what Leeds, Portsmouth, Swindon, Southampton, Leicester and 45 other clubs have been in where liquidation wasn't even considered?

Eirebear · 14-02-2012 1:31pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I don't think that "buy back" clause exists as you think it does mate.

Is Murray not broke himself now?

...and I don't think the £75m is that big an "if" mate, Whyte himself said it last night.

Few media types (Spiers and another fella) on STV last night saying they reckon he's inflated that tag and they expect the bill to come in around the 40m mark.

bobbysands81 · 14-02-2012 1:42pm

Eirebear wrote: »

Few media types (Spiers and another fella) on STV last night saying they reckon he's inflated that tag and they expect the bill to come in around the 40m mark.

I'd be very surprised if it was that low.

Eirebear · 14-02-2012 1:48pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if it was that low.

Nothing would surprise me at the minute.

Too much over my head in all honesty.

RoryMac · 14-02-2012 1:54pm

Beefy78 wrote: »

Well it isn't coming from anywhere, which is exactly the reason why both Rangers and HMRC are now pushing for Administration. Rangers have no way of paying a tax bill of that sort of money.

Once they're in administration, the administrator will come take over the running of the business and do what he can to make it a sustainable entity. With the transfer window closed, essentially that would mean reducing outgoings which would mean sacking people (not the players).

The Administrator then will look to find someone to buy the Club (or rather take on the debt). Once a buyer, or a number of buyers, are found they'll attempt to reach agreement with the various creditors to accept a certain number of pence to the pound of debt (a CVA) and if that is reached then they'll exist administration (in theory a stronger entity which should be able to manage its cashflow better.

Who owns Ibrox? Because that's where things start getting complicated.

Rangers were heading for Administration without taking the tax case into consideration, they have sold off future revenue in season ticket sales, merchandising, catering etc, they were losing money year on year and prior to the new owner were being effectively run by the bank.

The new owner seems to have made little difference to how the club is run and plenty of players have been re-signed on new contracts when surely offloading high earners would have been the responsible thing to do. Everything the new owner has done so far seems to be pushing Rangers in the wrong direction.

Everything done so far seems to be pointing towards a pre-pack administration where Rangers FC will be liquidated and sold to New Rangers FC.

Pompey Magnus · 14-02-2012 2:15pm

STV are reporting that Rangers have had the 10 points deducted, is it official now so?

Dempsey · 14-02-2012 2:19pm

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

STV are reporting that Rangers have had the 10 points deducted, is it official now so?

They are not in administration yet AFAIK

RoryMac · 14-02-2012 2:23pm

Dempsey wrote: »

They are not in administration yet AFAIK

The Rangers lawyer fighting the HMRC administration case said that administrators would be appointed today.

EDIT If they win the case!

Jelle1880 · 14-02-2012 2:27pm

Looks like Rangers asked for it themselves.

Dempsey · 14-02-2012 2:29pm

RoryMac wrote: »

The Rangers lawyer fighting the HMRC administration case said that administrators would be appointed today.

EDIT If they win the case!

Until that actually happens, the arent in administration. The administrators need to be appointed then and only then the 10 point deduction is made

Pompey Magnus · 14-02-2012 2:41pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Looks like Rangers asked for it themselves.

Yep, looks as if Whyte was caught off guard with the HMRC's action today. He hesitated with the application yesterday and thought he would get a 10 day breathing space before committing to administration, looks like he may have lost the initiative if HMRC get their way.

Jelle1880 · 14-02-2012 2:42pm

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Yep, looks as if Whyte was caught off guard with the HMRC's action today. He hesitated with the application yesterday and thought he would get a 10 day breathing space before committing to administration, looks like he may have lost the initiative if HMRC get their way.

Not if they succeed, then Rangers can appoint their own administrators.

Dempsey · 14-02-2012 2:45pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Not if they succeed, then Rangers can appoint their own administrators.

You sure that they have a choice in who gets appointed? I think that gets appointed by the court.

It wont matter though, Whyte has worked with them all over the years :rolleyes:

Pompey Magnus · 14-02-2012 2:47pm

So HMRC's action relates to PAYE and National Insurance bill it seems, am I right in saying this is from Craig Whyte's period in charge or have I misheard?

Pompey Magnus · 14-02-2012 2:49pm

Dempsey wrote: »

You sure that they have a choice in who gets appointed? I think that gets appointed by the court.

It wont matter though, Whyte has worked with them all over the years :rolleyes:

Voluntary Administration means you can chose your own administrator, he has close links to the crowd he has nominated, one of their senior members was with him in the directors box of Ibrox when he took over the club.

Jelle1880 · 14-02-2012 2:49pm

stvmikeMike Edwards

RFC to appoint administrators by 3.30 pm today or HMRC case to appoint administrators stands

Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

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