A man trapped in an unhappy/unloving marriage

Its good that you care so deeply about your brother but the reality is that only he can change this situation. Have you any indication that he really wants to get out, he may not be happy with some of what is happening but its a huge leap to leaving her.

It sounds to me like its probably tough on both of them, they have lost a huge chunk of their respective incomes each and life is now pretty rough as a result. I can empathise with him as I lost my job and for a good while I was living just day to day with mounting bills. Its serious pressure, but their is also pressure from her side in that she is working and by sounds of it at end of week the money is eaten up by expenses etc. That can be quiet demoralising too .

I would say be there for him if he needs you , be supportive but dont be negative, families can have a skewed perspective of whats really going on based on their natural inclination towards their own loved one. One thing is for sure he loved her enough to marry her, have a child with her etc so there is a good chance there is something good between them beyond what everyone sees

moved from tgc to pi. please note the pi charter applies from here onwards

hash for cash wrote: »

They met a year after she had bought the house

Do they live in 'her' house?

hash for cash wrote: »

Even though she has a very good job and works ridiculously long hours she has taken a huge cut in income.

Doesnt sound blissful to me. Is that to keep the bills paid and the family going.

hash for cash wrote: »

She went back to work 6 weeks after they had their baby girl in May of this year.

god love her...

hash for cash wrote: »

he always knew she never wanted children, couldn't stand them, hated other peoples kids etc ..... she only agreed to that baby because we all feel that she knew she would lose him if she didn't.

so she felt like she had to have kids to keep him and he, knowing this, was happy nonethe less. I feel sorry for the girl that she was forced to have a baby

hash for cash wrote: »

little time with the baby, he is home all day everyday looking after her. He never goes out, she goes out on the weekend because 'shes been working all week'

he doesnt work so why wouldnt he mind the baby???? He wanted the baby so its only fair he minds her.

hash for cash wrote: »

she never lets him out.

Really?

Op - you are talking about your brother as though he is a child who was made to do things instead of an adult who made his own decisions. You also talk about his wife in derogatory terms. How you speak about him and his wife does not come across well and almost seems as though you want to split them up because you didnt like her in the beginning. Personally I would be disgusted if any family member of mine was speaking about me or my spouse in such terms.

I think, based on your post, you need to emotionally distance yourself from this families business, but at the same time provide support for your brother - if he asks for it. So let him know you are there for him, but stop being so emotionally attached to the situation yourselves. Dont offer him solutions, be there to listen to him, but allow him to make his own decisions. There is a fine line between helping someone and interfering in their marriage. I would also add that no one knows what goes on behind closed doors in a relationship except the 2 people in the relationship and making assumptions on what you think is happening is probably a bad idea.

It sounds like plenty of couples in today's Ireland TBH, only with genders reversed. He is working hard and burdened with financial responsibility, has no energy to play with children when he's finally at home, dreaming about his weekend pint, dodging letters from the bank. She is stuck at home minding kids, cooking and cleaning, depressed about lack of work or career, no money for anything special, husband out all day. Now switch roles and you have your brother and his wife - it's not great, but it's not the end of the world either. People get through it. How do you know if there is or there isn't love between them? How do you know it's not only external circumstances that make them unhappy?

Offer your brother help or company if he needs them but stay out of his affairs, just make sure you're there for him should anything happen. It looks like what they need now is a couple of counselling sessions to learn how to cope together and not separately.

OP, I really think you and your family need to back off a bit. I totally understand that you do not like your brother's partner, but he chose her, it's his life, not yours.

At the end of the day, I'd give the same advice here as I'd give to a woman in an abusive relationship (I am NOT saying your bother is in an abusive relationship, I don't think there's enough information to come to that conclusion) - don't force him to leave. There is very, very little you can do until your brother decides for himself that he has had enough and wants to leave.

Until that day comes, just be a support for him if he needs to talk. If you're constantly telling him to leave, or badmouthing his partner, that will just serve to make him defensive and could alienate him from the family as he will not be as willing to seek help if he feels he is only going to have his life scrutinised and judged.

All in all, OP, leave well alone until the day your brother specifically asks for help. He's a grown man and can make his own decisions.

FrogMarch wrote: »

If it was a woman in this situation, would your response be the same?

While this thread began in tGC, it has been moved to PI and will be moderated in accordance with the PI charter.

Please note PI is strictly moderated and we expect all advice to be civil, mature and constructive for the OP. Quizzing other posters on their responses to a thread/issue that has not been presented by the OP is not helpful OR on-topic.

Be aware that off-topic and unhelpful posting can earn you a ban from this forum.

If you haven’t done so already, please take the time to read the [URL=" http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056181484"]forum rules[/URL] in the charter before posting again.

Many thanks.


As per site policy, if you have an issue with any moderator instruction or request please contact a relevant moderator via PM - DO NOT drag the thread further off-topic by responding on-thread

Ive been in this situation, there is nothing anyone can do unless he decides to leave !

FrogMarch wrote: »

If he's being emotionally abused then why would the OP stay out of it? If you had a sister who was being physically abused in her marriage, would you 'stay out of it'?

Now I'm only taking the OP's version of events at face value here but I think it's about time that society started to realise the dangers of emotional and psychological abuse in interpersonal relationships and stopped assuming that abuse is always physical and inflicted on women by men.

OP - if you feel your brother's wife is being abusive towards him, you have every right to intervene IMO. Having been in a very abusive relationship with a personality disordered woman for several years, I would have, from hindsight, really appreciated my family supporting me.

I agree with this post and somehow cannot thank it. No one needs to be put in a situation and tolerate any abuse whether physical or emotional whether the victim is male or female. In fact, male victims are more likely than female victims NOT to seek help. We live in a society where many still think that victims in abusive relationships are only females.

The OP is the only one in this entire thread that knows what's really going on. All I can ask is has your brother's behaviour changed much? Has he become more withdrawn or isolating himself from you and the rest of the family?

All you can really do thus far is be there for him and help him out as much as you can. It may encourage him to open up more and then maybe you will be able to find out if something is really wrong.

You sound very unempathetic and one sided and against "outsiders" to your family. Do you have any idea what it must have been like for this woman to have been financially forced to go back to work six weeks after having her first child, to pay a huge mortgage on her own, to provide a house for her unemployed husband to live in? And to have to deal with his snooty, unsympathetic family who do nothing but look down on her attempts to keep her family financially afloat, while attempting to break up her family and possibly steal her child away from her?

You should never interfere in other people's relationships, unless it involves minors or the most blatant ill treatment. Your assertsions of "abuse" are simply guesswork. What isn't guesswork is that your brother is unemployed, living in this woman's house quite likely free of charage and has a wife who works long hours to provide food for the table.

Aside from that, your brother is a grown adult. He is capable of making his own decisions, and tbh he seems to be doing quite well out of the marriage so far...

shantolog wrote: »

To be frank it seems like you may have missed a few key pieces of information from the original post, so I will quote them for you;

I didn't miss that information. Your perception is that I've missed agreeing with your spin on it, which are different things.

shantolog wrote: »

He is paying half a mortgage he had NO part in getting, and paying it from his savings no less, I don't see how that could be interpreted as having a house provided to you by your wife. Also the use of the word "unemployed" in your statement, in my opinion, is used in an unfairly pejorative manor, although if this is not intended I apologise.

Yes, thats what you do when you get married. You share things. Presumably he didn't have his own house they could move into, so they moved into hers. He is getting a roof over his head in return for his payments. What do you suggest she does otherwise, if she can't sell the property? Give up paying, and go bankrupt? Or go out to work and pay the mortgage, like she is doing?

As for him being unemployed, is there something so special about the members of your family that render them immune from the normal descriptions applied to people in that situation? Does the man currently work for a living or not? If not, he is unemployed. ie he is without paid unemployment. Its a black and white situation. He is in fact a stay-at-home father.

And if he has such a vast amount of savings, to pay what you describe as a vast mortgage for so long, why didn't he use them to save his business? That doesn't make sense.

shantolog wrote: »

In regards to the child:

I think I would be correct in saying that she doesn't even want the child, and only had the baby to keep her relationship with the man in question intact, what type of a proper mother is that?

Again, this is your spin on it, the other interpretation is that she saw it wasn't a good time financially to have a child, but he encouraged her to have one when she did. Sounds like she must really love him. Its a very common scenario and has nothing to do with whether someone is a "proper mother" or not - your spin on it again.

Originally Posted by hash for cash
The really annoying thing is, is that he always knew she never wanted children, couldn't stand them, hated other peoples kids etc and he's the complete opposite, she only agreed to that baby because we all feel that she knew she would lose him if she didn't... She spends very little time with the baby, he is home all day everyday looking after her

Originally Posted by hash for cash
... I never saw anyone as cold hearted with her own baby in my life....you never see her holding her or cuddling her, nothing...she always tells him that shes crying or needs feeding or changing etc...that she's tired and has been at work all day and more or less tells him that this is what he wanted not her so get on with it...


Tends to be what happens when one partner has a job and the other doesn't. You are seriously suggesting that because this woman goes out to work to pay the bills while her husband is unemployed, that makes her a bad mother?? I also know plenty of female friends who say they never want children, etc - some do, some don't. I hardly think the ones that do get constantly reminded of their previous remarks, as if its taken down and noted in evidence against them in some value judgement.

Yes, I suspect she is very tired, because as you say, she works long hours and she had to go back to work to pay those bills only six weeks after giving birth. Do you have any idea how hard that must have been, physically as well as mentally? Perhaps she is so tired she is frustrated that her husband pressurised her into having a child in those circumstances. Perfectly understandable.

I should also say that there are many women (and men) out there who don't come across as Perfect Mother of the Year candidates. To extrapolate from that that they must be bad mothers and their husbands should leave them is ridiculous. My sister-in-law, for instance, behaves in exactly the same way as you describe. She nearly always gets her husband to change nappies, do other tasks with the baby, etc. And she doesn't work! In fact, there are a lot of women out there who simply look for a man to pay their way in the world and who would leave and go back home or start trying to find someone else if they found themselves in the position of having to support the entire family through their job, as your sister-in-law is doing.

shantolog wrote: »

Of course all we have to go on is the OP, and the woman in this story cannot have a say, unless she adds to the thread, so there is no way to tell how accurate this story is. But in my opinion this thread has swung disproportionately into the "it's their relationship so butt out" category, but should a family stop caring about a member because they are an adult?

I think you should support your brother and not interfere and put your own prejudices and imagination into their relataionship. I honestly find the sheer "spin" on what you are writing quite shocking (far more shocking than the supposed "abusive" behaviour on the part of your sister-in-law), it is as if you have overstepped some mark as to what you should and should comment about in another person's relationship, and are unaware that the rest of the world doesn't see things in the same prejudiced light as yourselves.

You have however described perfectly understandable reasons as to why this relationship may be under pressure. But theres no getting away from the fact this woman is carrying the burden of working for the whole family, just after giving birth. I think she deservers a medal! Not criticism, wheres your humanity, for goodness sake?

shantolog wrote: »

I think not, adults after all can make the worst of choices despite their better sense,who hasn't? To me this seems like it's neither "butt out it's not your business" or "he needs to leave" scenario, a lot of people involved needs to change their mindset.

You've described a hard working woman who hasn't walked out on her husband and family despite his unemployment and horrifically unsupportive and critical family. It sounds like a nightmare for her.

I think your family should examine their discomfiture over your brother not working, and stop pretending its something this hard working woman is doing. Alternatively, recognise this is a young family struggling in a harsh economic climate, with a new baby. I doubt you will though, because there seems to be an attitude to interpret innocent things as evil. I have to say I'm honestly really shocked at your posting, but I doubt you will see it that way so you are just going to have to accept that some people in the outside world don't necessarily see things in the way your family do.

As multiple perspectives have been covered and the thread is going around in circles with little to no relevant/constructive advice directed towards the OP, I'm locking.

OP, if there is anything else you wish to add/discuss further please PM a PI mod.