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Airtight Extractor fan for cooker?

  • 26-04-2013 3:56pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭


    Looking for advice on an extractor fan in the kitchen of my new self build. Can i bore a hole in the wall basically for my extractor fan for the cooker?
    I have MHRV installed but i am just wondering can i purchase an airtight extractor fan or is ther such a thing on the market?
    I do know there is some type of carbon filters that requires no extract/vent but i would imagine they are quiet expensive plus there is the need to change the carbon every so often.
    any advice is very welcome.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭john_cappa


    nealger wrote: »
    Looking for advice on an extractor fan in the kitchen of my new self build. Can i bore a hole in the wall basically for my extractor fan for the cooker?
    I have MHRV installed but i am just wondering can i purchase an airtight extractor fan or is ther such a thing on the market?
    I do know there is some type of carbon filters that requires no extract/vent but i would imagine they are quiet expensive plus there is the need to change the carbon every so often.
    any advice is very welcome.

    My understanding is you cant use en extractor fan that actually extracts the air externally when you have MVHR and an airtight house. You use a fan that recirculates the air.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭Eoghan Barra


    john_cappa wrote: »
    My understanding is you cant use en extractor fan that actually extracts the air externally when you have MVHR and an airtight house. You use a fan that recirculates the air.

    This is correct. Having a large hole in the wall pumping warm air out of the house would defeat the purpose of airtightness and hrv, so a recirculating hood with filters is what you need. They aren't expensive (I paid in and around 120 euros). However, it will probably be necessary to place another filter over the kitchen hrv extract, as any grease not removed from the air by the hood will be sucked into the hrv extract duct otherwise.

    There has been a bit of discussion on this very subject here within the last few days: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056929580


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭fclauson


    you have a choice
    1. extract outside - have a closing baffle - accept when you are extracting you are pumping out heat (but how long do you really cook for - our stir fry took 10 mins tonight)
    2. recirculate - and have good grease filters on the extractor
    3. extract via MVHR and suffer grease in the system
    I went with option 2 - my extractor if vented to the outside could empty the house (1000 cu M) in 7 mins !!!!!


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    fclauson wrote: »
    you have a choice
    1. extract outside - have a closing baffle - accept when you are extracting you are pumping out heat (but how long do you really cook for - our stir fry took 10 mins tonight)
    2. recirculate - and have good grease filters on the extractor
    3. extract via MVHR and suffer grease in the system
    I went with option 2 - my extractor if vented to the outside could empty the house (1000 cu M) in 7 mins !!!!!
    2. cost per year v 1.
    (given that 2 costs x)
    thanks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭fclauson


    1 & 2 about the same price (give or take €200) - but 2 is a standard unit - simple to fit - could be replaced in x years when it fails/kitchen gets re-designed (heaven for bid :mad:) or what ever
    1 has is a bit of a self build effort to get a good motorised baffle and make it work


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭Eoghan Barra


    fclauson wrote: »
    you have a choice
    1. extract outside - have a closing baffle - accept when you are extracting you are pumping out heat (but how long do you really cook for - our stir fry took 10 mins tonight)
    2. recirculate - and have good grease filters on the extractor
    3. extract via MVHR and suffer grease in the system
    I went with option 2 - my extractor if vented to the outside could empty the house (1000 cu M) in 7 mins !!!!!

    fclauson, can I ask what type of grease filters you used on the hrv extractor, and where did you get them?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭john_cappa


    X2 on above.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭fclauson


    you all miss understood - no grease filter on HRV (which is a good 10ft from hob) just on the recirc extractor


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭Eoghan Barra


    fclauson wrote: »
    you all miss understood - no grease filter on HRV (which is a good 10ft from hob) just on the recirc extractor

    Aren't you concerned about grease build up in the hrv duct? sas reported that the filter he put over the hrv kitchen intake was 'manky' with grease (his is 10ft away too; mine is only 4-5ft).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭fclauson


    yes - ..... its on the "to do list" -along with a lot of other things !!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭Eoghan Barra


    fclauson wrote: »
    yes - ..... its on the "to do list" -along with a lot of other things !!

    I know what you mean!

    Do you have any idea where suitable filters can be obtained?


  • Registered Users Posts: 33 Sandman777


    fclauson wrote: »
    you have a choice
    1. extract outside - have a closing baffle - accept when you are extracting you are pumping out heat (but how long do you really cook for - our stir fry took 10 mins tonight)
    2. recirculate - and have good grease filters on the extractor
    3. extract via MVHR and suffer grease in the system
    I went with option 2 - my extractor if vented to the outside could empty the house (1000 cu M) in 7 mins !!!!!

    Hi

    Im currently in the same position as OP! I am thinking about extracting from cooker directly to outside and having a mechanical damper that opens/closes when extractor is switched on/off!!

    I know i am basically sucking heat out of the house while its out but i am a bit wary of filtering and recirculating the air as i dont want the MHRV sucking any excess gunk into the system!! MHRV extract approx 2.5 m from cooker extractor!

    I basically dont know what option to go for and any advice appreciated!!

    S


  • Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭gooseygander


    Sandman777 wrote: »
    Hi

    Im currently in the same position as OP! I am thinking about extracting from cooker directly to outside and having a mechanical damper that opens/closes when extractor is switched on/off!!

    I know i am basically sucking heat out of the house while its out but i am a bit wary of filtering and recirculating the air as i dont want the MHRV sucking any excess gunk into the system!! MHRV extract approx 2.5 m from cooker extractor!

    I basically dont know what option to go for and any advice appreciated!!

    S
    Hi sandman and all others that may have opinions, what system did you go form in the end for your cookerhood. We are at that stage now of our build and I also am wondering whether to core a hole in the wall for the cooker extractor/vent. My mhrv extract duct is positioned about 8foot from where cooker is but I am still leaning towards the hole in the wall. Any advice on what size core or where one might get a damper to place on same. All opinions welcome especially from anybody who has gone down this road before me and how they are getting on with their system. Many thanks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc


    I'm interested in this also as I've the same dilemma.

    I'm also planning on putting in a central vacuum system but reading this thread I'm having second thoughts as it will also suck the warm air from my house (unit would sit in the garage)!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭gooseygander


    BarneyMc wrote: »
    I'm interested in this also as I've the same dilemma.

    I'm also planning on putting in a central vacuum system but reading this thread I'm having second thoughts as it will also suck the warm air from my house (unit would sit in the garage)!!

    Hi barney, my slab and walls are being cored tomorrow for plumbing services, I am going to go with hole in wall for extractor also, thinking 4 inch hole and get a baffle or damper for it, don't want hassle with grease in mhrv system or cooking smells lingering. Or even hassle and expense of charcoal extractor which needs regular filter change and usually are crap anyway, am I mad or making a mistake ???, what you think


  • Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭gooseygander


    Ment to say I opted against vacuum plan as I was told it sucks heat and more important its brutal for air tightness plans, but I did not study the system in debt


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc


    Hi barney, my slab and walls are being cored tomorrow for plumbing services, I am going to go with hole in wall for extractor also, thinking 4 inch hole and get a baffle or damper for it, don't want hassle with grease in mhrv system or cooking smells lingering. Or even hassle and expense of charcoal extractor which needs regular filter change and usually are crap anyway, am I mad or making a mistake ???, what you think

    I really don't know goosey but if I had to do it tomorrow I would probably do the same. There's a lot of airtight houses out there so surely there must be a device that suits your needs (baffle/damper).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc


    Ment to say I opted against vacuum plan as I was told it sucks heat and more important its brutal for air tightness plans, but I did not study the system in debt

    Yeah the saleman was not too convincing when I brought this up... will re-consider.


  • Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭gooseygander


    well that's that, hole to outside now in wall where extractor will be, now where to get damper or closing baffle to fit in 4 inch pipe ????, any ideas or advice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 220 ✭✭nailer8


    I was told by the guy selling the MHRV system he would supply an electric baffle/valve for the extract pipe which you wire to the extractor to open when its in use.
    I wouldn't be too concerned re the heat being sucked out, you hardly cook that much and it is probably compensated by the heat generated by the cooking.


    Alternative is the charcoal filter which i might go for too, had one in an apartment before never caused any hassle and the filters are cheap to replace.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭gooseygander


    nailer8 wrote: »
    I was told by the guy selling the MHRV system he would supply an electric baffle/valve for the extract pipe which you wire to the extractor to open when its in use.
    I wouldn't be too concerned re the heat being sucked out, you hardly cook that much and it is probably compensated by the heat generated by the cooking.


    Alternative is the charcoal filter which i might go for too, had one in an apartment before never caused any hassle and the filters are cheap to replace.
    Thanks nailer8, any chance of your mhrv mans contact details so I can enquire about his damper, by pm is safest, many thanks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 220 ✭✭nailer8


    Done. Good luck.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc


    nailer8 wrote: »
    I was told by the guy selling the MHRV system he would supply an electric baffle/valve for the extract pipe which you wire to the extractor to open when its in use.
    I wouldn't be too concerned re the heat being sucked out, you hardly cook that much and it is probably compensated by the heat generated by the cooking.


    Alternative is the charcoal filter which i might go for too, had one in an apartment before never caused any hassle and the filters are cheap to replace.

    Is the electric baffle/value airtight?

    Spoke with someone today who opted for the carbon filter instead of full extraction and he's very happy with it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭gooseygander


    BarneyMc wrote: »
    Is the electric baffle/value airtight?

    Spoke with someone today who opted for the carbon filter instead of full extraction and he's very happy with it.

    Just ordered a battic back draft damper online, I was finding them very hard to source locally. It fits in a four inch duct and looks ideal. It work with the aid of a fabric within the duct which closes in on itself when wind blows from outside and opens out when extractor is turned on. No running costs or maintenance. I was a bit worried the butterfly type damper might seize up within the duct over time. I'll give you update on it when it arrives. I don't like or trust carbon filters but that's just me, best of luck


  • Registered Users Posts: 33 Sandman777


    Hi sandman and all others that may have opinions, what system did you go form in the end for your cookerhood. We are at that stage now of our build and I also am wondering whether to core a hole in the wall for the cooker extractor/vent. My mhrv extract duct is positioned about 8foot from where cooker is but I am still leaning towards the hole in the wall. Any advice on what size core or where one might get a damper to place on same. All opinions welcome especially from anybody who has gone down this road before me and how they are getting on with their system. Many thanks

    Hi Goosey

    Ive decided to extract directly to outside. Altho i have a very well sealed airtight house i was not happy to recirculate filtered plus the heat loss while the extractor is switched on will be small as heat produced from cooking more or less balances out the losses.

    I havent connected it up yet as i am looking for a suitable baffle for the extract duct on the outside . There is also a baffle on the extractor fan itself over the cooker that closes when not in use.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc


    Just ordered a battic back draft damper online, I was finding them very hard to source locally. It fits in a four inch duct and looks ideal. It work with the aid of a fabric within the duct which closes in on itself when wind blows from outside and opens out when extractor is turned on. No running costs or maintenance.

    Has this arrived yet and if so wha do you think?


  • Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭gooseygander


    Hi barney, yes it has arrived but I have not installed it yet as plastering is currently being done and I will install it when its finished. It fits very snuggly inside a 4 inch duct and the fabric in it is very flimsy and light so I want to ensure to duct is clean and free of any debris that might hinder its working when I fit it. Hope that helps you a bit but is it any good at what its designed for ?, don't know yet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 192 ✭✭PROJECT K


    heard great reports about ionising units see link below, but very expensive (between 1500 and 2000!!!:eek:) I have experience of charcoal recirculating hoods which work fine and thats what i will go with now, once the ionising units become more affordable i will switch to one of them...couldnt bear punching any more holes in the walls after the effort to get them airtight!!!

    http://www -snip-

    PK


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭Curious Geroge


    Any feedback on the battic back draft dampers?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 220 ✭✭nailer8


    PROJECT K wrote: »
    heard great reports about ionising units see link below, but very expensive (between 1500 and 2000!!!:eek:) I have experience of charcoal recirculating hoods which work fine and that's what i will go with now, once the ionising units become more affordable i will switch to one of them...couldn't bear punching any more holes in the walls after the effort to get them airtight!!!

    I also scrapped the vented extractor plan. It was causing all sorts of problems and decided to go with a recirculating one. Never heard of Ionising units before. Has anybody actually fitted one?
    Anyone know where there are impartial reviews available, obviously the manufacturers claim they will change your life but nothing new there.

    One word of warning for those planning on fitting electric dampers in the duct work that came up in my investigations. The electric dampers take 45-60sec to open. If you wire them to the fan on the extractor the air will have nowhere to go until its open. Ideally you need a delay timer or wire the fan to the microswitch in the damper which will only activate the fan once the damper is fully open. This may not be that simple on fancy remote control extractors.


  • Registered Users Posts: 192 ✭✭PROJECT K


    PROJECT K wrote: »
    heard great reports about ionising units see link below, but very expensive (between 1500 and 2000!!!:eek:) I have experience of charcoal recirculating hoods which work fine and thats what i will go with now, once the ionising units become more affordable i will switch to one of them...couldnt bear punching any more holes in the walls after the effort to get them airtight!!!

    PK


    not an add BryanF, i have no connection/commercial interest - they happen to be the only ionising extractor available (their patented technology) so didnt see an issue in naming them - but apologies if this isnt allowed under the rules and regs...my bad:(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭Curious Geroge


    Did anyone with a HRV extract in the kitchen source any filter that can be put in the extract to prevent the grease going into the system. We have a recirculating charcoal filter extractor hood in the kitchen and the extract is about 6ft away from the hob. Been proactive here, anyone using or recomment anything for the extract point ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭fclauson


    No :(

    But I can recommend putting a piece of "bounce" (other well known tumble dryer cloths also work) in as a filter (we have put one above the tumble dryer/clothes washer)

    You can replace as often as you like - they are a waste product from another process so super recyclable !!

    take a look
    https://www.facebook.com/Passive.House.Wexford/photos_stream


  • Registered Users Posts: 1 davidsmerv


    Ive just found this thread as I have just came across a problem with fitting a recirculating extractor in my property in co antrim..... the guy from building control has just announced that he wants an extractor vented to the outside even though I have a HRV system fitted which has an extract vent in the kitchen area. Has anyone came across this problem, its a bit late for them to tell me this now as everything is already fitted and changing it is going to be a real pain so any advice on a way around this would be great. I dont see the point in going to the trouble of creating a well sealed airtight home which I have achieved to then drill a hole to let my warm air out through!!!!


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    davidsmerv wrote: »
    Ive just found this thread as I have just came across a problem with fitting a recirculating extractor in my property in co antrim..... the guy from building control has just announced that he wants an extractor vented to the outside even though I have a HRV system fitted which has an extract vent in the kitchen area. Has anyone came across this problem, its a bit late for them to tell me this now as everything is already fitted and changing it is going to be a real pain so any advice on a way around this would be great. I dont see the point in going to the trouble of creating a well sealed airtight home which I have achieved to then drill a hole to let my warm air out through!!!!

    your arch or a building services engineer can explain using code & standards how this works.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc


    davidsmerv wrote: »
    Ive just found this thread as I have just came across a problem with fitting a recirculating extractor in my property in co antrim..... the guy from building control has just announced that he wants an extractor vented to the outside even though I have a HRV system fitted which has an extract vent in the kitchen area. Has anyone came across this problem, its a bit late for them to tell me this now as everything is already fitted and changing it is going to be a real pain so any advice on a way around this would be great. I dont see the point in going to the trouble of creating a well sealed airtight home which I have achieved to then drill a hole to let my warm air out through!!!!

    Seems a real shame. Maybe consult a passive house architect to see how they get around this in the north.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭fclauson


    ask him for legislation where this is required


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 907 ✭✭✭rampantbunny


    davidsmerv wrote: »
    ..... the guy from building control has just announced that he wants an extractor vented to the outside even though I have a HRV system fitted which has an extract vent in the kitchen area.
    fclauson wrote: »
    ask him for legislation where this is required

    FC +1
    Is it a 'want' or is it a genuine requirement? Seems at odds with the airtight house approach.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc


    Was out getting some quotes for our electrical appliances at the weekend and the issue of a recirculating fan in an airtight house came up. The salesman said it was important to get a strong extractor fan with twice the power of its rival.

    Anyway the one he suggested is priced at €550 - twice that of it's very well known and branded rival. Am I being ripped off here as it seems a hell of a lot of cash?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 907 ✭✭✭rampantbunny


    BarneyMc wrote: »
    Was out getting some quotes for our electrical appliances at the weekend and the issue of a recirculating fan in an airtight house came up. The salesman said it was important to get a strong extractor fan with twice the power of its rival.

    Anyway the one he suggested is priced at €550 - twice that of it's very well known and branded rival. Am I being ripped off here as it seems a hell of a lot of cash?

    Are you a consumer? Are you a consumer in Ireland? - then yes, you're probably getting ripped off ;)
    More seriously though, isn't the extraction rate/extractor capacity supposed to be calculated from the kitchen size or is it a case of bigger is better?
    Was the extractor in question a re-circ. jobbie btw? I haven't priced around myself yet but am expecting to pay a lot more for them than the regular hole in wall products.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    A point to consider with hob extractor fans that vent to outside in an airtight house should be any stoves you have in mind.

    Over here you must install a stove that not only receives it's fresh air supply from outside via a feed pipe but also it must be specifically certified as "self sealing" where the doors are spring loaded and close themselves tight against the seals.

    The reason is that in an airtight house an extractor venting to outside can easily cause a significant vacuum in the house, sucking carbon monoxide etc. into the room rather than letting it go up the chimney.

    If you have no certified room sealed stove you have to fit a window contact so the extractor fan only works when a window is cracked open.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,675 ✭✭✭exaisle


    I have this system...

    http://www.pawlings.com/ventilation-systems/itho-ventilation-heat-recovery/

    I've checked and there's no evidence of grease in the system...either in the ducting or in the hrv unit itself.
    That said, I don't do a huge amount of frying...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc


    OK it seems like we can name names so this is the 'expensive' hood in question: http://www.rangemaster.co.uk/products/hoods-splashbacks/chimney-hoods/integrated-hood

    According to the salesman it's winning factor is its 'Extraction rate of 870m3/hr free air delivery'. The other hood (Siemens) was half the price but had half the extractor top power setting.

    See the attached photo for the relevant 're-circulating' mode, i.e. hole in the cabinet!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,566 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Free extraction is a misnomer because its the rate once you put in the filters and any duct work that matters, as well as what height from the cooker hob.

    The other question is whats the noise level at 870m3

    Its a bit like MHRV, a better flow rate at a lower speed across a larger filter surface is a better proposition, even if it is being recirculated

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭Tom Hagen


    well guys, for a new airtight house with very expensive mvhr system, can anybody recommend going with a recirculating extractor or a 'hole in the wall' extractor?
    don't want grease getting into the system.

    any of ye tried and tested

    any help appreciated


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc


    Going the recirculating route but not tried and tested yet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    We extract to the outside, so hole in wall. We have a non-return butterfly valve in the extractor duct to help prevent back draught.
    Note, this does not guarantee grease-free mvhr ducting, although not too bad after nearly a decade.
    If going hole in wall, be sure to crack open a window when using the hood due to airtightness.


  • Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭qaz123


    Got the same dilemma at the minute.
    Hob is on island. Plan to build drop down box above island to house flush mounted ceiling extractor. Going with a Faber heaven extractor. It has option to extract via hole in wall or recirculate with charcoal filters. Kitchen fitter recommends hole in wall as best job to remove smells builder recommends recirculating because house has MHRV.

    Leaning towards recirculating option since we spent money and time making house as airtight as possible.

    Looking for some feedback on people on what setup they went with


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,184 ✭✭✭Paul Kiernan


    MicktheMan wrote: »
    If going hole in wall, be sure to crack open a window when using the hood due to airtightness.

    Is this a good idea? If there's already a flow of air in and out through the MHRV won't the path of least resistance to replace the extracted air be through the MHRV? That air will at least be getting heated as it's drawn in.

    How can you make sure the extractor fan is airtight when it's not in use?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    .........
    How can you make sure the extractor fan is airtight when it's not in use?

    Stick a powered valve in the extractor fan duct


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