How to make rounds shorter

bazzer86 · 18-12-2014 6:38pm #1

Was listening to an interesting podcast on Off the Ball relating to how the number of people playing golf aged between 15-25 has halved over the last few years, with particular reference to the time a round takes being a deterring factor. I think it may have been McIlroy that made reference to it in the media.

They seem to reckon that a sub 3 hour round is unbreakable in a 3/4 ball format.

Anyone have any thoughts on what will change in golf in the coming years, if anything, or are we resigned to the 3.5/4.0 hour round of golf? I personally don't think it will ever change, especially with the number of slow players out there at present.

markie4 · 19-12-2014 12:37am

Shane Lowry suggested banning practise swings yesterday on Ian Dempsey to speed up play

FixdePitchmark · 19-12-2014 2:19am

markie4 wrote: »

Shane Lowry suggested banning practise swings yesterday on Ian Dempsey to speed up play

Did he - it is so true. Would love if he said that.

I think slow players are just selfish. That is it. I'd say they are slow in real life/outside of golf too .

FWVT · 19-12-2014 6:58am

Sorry, what? 3.5 hrs is slow for a 3-ball? What's people's hurry? Why do younger players not have 4 hrs to spare now and they did before?

I totally hate slow play, however I don't think that 3.5 or even 4 hrs for a 3-ball is slow, it's about right. Banning practice swings? Is that a joke?

I have no problem with people taking a few practice swings before each shot, but the real time is lost between shots. Stop faffing around in your golf bag when it comes to your turn, and please...stop this new thing of crouching down behind the ball, putting down a coin, taking 15 seconds to line up the ball, pretending you're a pro. All it does is slow up play.

I'm not sure why McIllroy and Lowry are making statements on slow play when they are part of the Tour, where a 4-hr 3-ball is unheard of. Banning practice swings? Really?

slave1 · 19-12-2014 9:08am

Easy, push the tees forward, cut the rough down so balls can be seen in the first cut of rough without searching...for a start

19-12-2014 11:16am

personally an out right ban on practice swings sounds good to me generally will only take one at every shot and by end of round generally have stopped, taking them but will annoy many altho watching ppl take 5 practice swings on a shot its head wrecking, probably a limit on how many you can take on a round or per shot would be better, also pushing forward tees and widening fairways/cutting down rough would help alot. Many clubs could offer 9 hole discounts as it stands not many clubs offer 9 hole only always full round

Miley Byrne · 19-12-2014 11:30am

slave1 wrote: »

Easy, push the tees forward, cut the rough down so balls can be seen in the first cut of rough without searching...for a start

But you are then taking away any advantage to the fella who keeps it on the fairway instead of spraying it all over the shop. If it comes to shortening up courses and doing away with rough then why not just play pitch & putt.

Dayor Knight · 19-12-2014 11:35am

denisoc16 wrote: »

But you are then taking away any advantage to the fella who keeps it on the fairway instead of spraying it all over the shop. If it comes to shortening up courses and doing away with rough then why not just play pitch & putt.

I don't think poster meant to cut it down completely, just not so long you can't find the ball. Can still be a tough shot out of rough.... May cost more to maintain that though, I suppose.

bazzer86 · 19-12-2014 11:42am

FWVT wrote: »

Sorry, what? 3.5 hrs is slow for a 3-ball? What's people's hurry? Why do younger players not have 4 hrs to spare now and they did before?

I totally hate slow play, however I don't think that 3.5 or even 4 hrs for a 3-ball is slow, it's about right. Banning practice swings? Is that a joke?

I have no problem with people taking a few practice swings before each shot, but the real time is lost between shots. Stop faffing around in your golf bag when it comes to your turn, and please...stop this new thing of crouching down behind the ball, putting down a coin, taking 15 seconds to line up the ball, pretending you're a pro. All it does is slow up play.

I'm not sure why McIllroy and Lowry are making statements on slow play when they are part of the Tour, where a 4-hr 3-ball is unheard of. Banning practice swings? Really?

I agree, people let on that they are too busy to play golf or go for a cycle. Its more laziness in my view. Obviously there people with young families who genuinely don't have the time but there are plenty of people who aren't arsed.

Having said that it is frustrating to get caught behind a very slow 3 ball... It boils down to a number of things. 1. People gowling around over shots and taking excessive practice swings and ridiculous pre shot routines. Another contributing factor is peoples inability to be ready to play their shot as soon as another one is hit. Often see people wait for the other person to hit a shot and only then proceed to go through their own routine.

Dont think shortening courses or cutting down rough is a solution, as some one has alluded to, may as well play pitch and put then...

GreeBo · 19-12-2014 11:49am

FWVT wrote: »

Sorry, what? 3.5 hrs is slow for a 3-ball? What's people's hurry? Why do younger players not have 4 hrs to spare now and they did before?

I totally hate slow play, however I don't think that 3.5 or even 4 hrs for a 3-ball is slow, it's about right. Banning practice swings? Is that a joke?

I have no problem with people taking a few practice swings before each shot, but the real time is lost between shots. Stop faffing around in your golf bag when it comes to your turn, and please...stop this new thing of crouching down behind the ball, putting down a coin, taking 15 seconds to line up the ball, pretending you're a pro. All it does is slow up play.

I'm not sure why McIllroy and Lowry are making statements on slow play when they are part of the Tour, where a 4-hr 3-ball is unheard of. Banning practice swings? Really?

Here here!
When I was 15 I often played 36 holes in a day...what exactly are these kids doing now?

The pro's are being irresponsible by airing those view imo, I think its promoting the idea that golf is slow and expensive, for elites.

Also, people in glass houese...

Anyone can play golf, it doesnt take all day and playing in your local club probably takes less time then heading off for an "away" soccer/gaa/rugby match.

Miley Byrne · 19-12-2014 11:51am

Dayor Knight wrote: »

I don't think poster meant to cut it down completely, just not so long you can't find the ball. Can still be a tough shot out of rough.... May cost more to maintain that though, I suppose.

Ah I know that, but if you cut it back then you are not penalising a wayward shot enough. I don't mean the rough needs to be knee deep but it can be hard to find a ball in 2-3 inch rough and it needs to be that length to be penal IMO.

mike12 · 19-12-2014 12:37pm

Think the attitude of 4 hours for a 3 ball is about right is most of the problem. My Dad used to play on a tough course 18 holes for a 4 ball was around 3 hours. How have we added on more than a hour in 30 years.
When i play with my mate first out we are between 2.30 and 2.45, if you add in someone else taking 30 seconds per shot it should come to another 24 mins so it should be around 3.30 for a 4ball.
On you home course the greens don't change so there should be no need to spend time reading chips and walking up looking at green when chipping.
Finish out from inside 2 foot you have read the putt so just tap it in.
You know when the next tee box is.
Pick up your ball when you have scratched no need to mark it for a 7.
First to the tee hits first.
After the first guy has hit from the fairway everyone else should have there club decided on and be ready to go.
Line up you putt as the other guy is tapping in.
Keep pre shot routine to under 30 seconds which can be 3 quick swings and walk in and hit it.
Everyone keep there eys on the ball so you know where to look. When looking start in a straight line walk up and down in the area don't wander around like lost sheep( only 1 lost ball in the ACC using this method).
Mark scores when you are doing nothing else.
if you hole out first get the flag and be ready to put it into the hole.
If you are last to chip on get on and mark your ball so others can start putting. don't walk you bag all the way round the green making other wait.
Brisk walk between shots.

To reduce a round from 4.30 to 4 hours means less than 2 minutes a hole or 30 seconds per player per hole which should be easy.

alxmorgan · 19-12-2014 12:43pm

mike12 wrote: »

Think the attitude of 4 hours for a 3 ball is about right is most of the problem. My Dad used to play on a tough course 18 holes for a 4 ball was around 3 hours. How have we added on more than a hour in 30 years.
When i play with my mate first out we are between 2.30 and 2.45, if you add in someone else taking 30 seconds per shot it should come to another 24 mins so it should be around 3.30 for a 4ball.
On you home course the greens don't change so there should be no need to spend time reading chips and walking up looking at green when chipping.
Finish out from inside 2 foot you have read the putt so just tap it in.
You know when the next tee box is.
Pick up your ball when you have scratched no need to mark it for a 7.
First to the tee hits first.
After the first guy has hit from the fairway everyone else should have there club decided on and be ready to go.
Line up you putt as the other guy is tapping in.
Keep pre shot routine to under 30 seconds which can be 3 quick swings and walk in and hit it.
Everyone keep there eys on the ball so you know where to look. When looking start in a straight line walk up and down in the area don't wander around like lost sheep( only 1 lost ball in the ACC using this method).
Mark scores when you are doing nothing else.
if you hole out first get the flag and be ready to put it into the hole.
If you are last to chip on get on and mark your ball so others can start putting. don't walk you bag all the way round the green making other wait.
Brisk walk between shots.

To reduce a round from 4.30 to 4 hours means less than 2 minutes a hole or 30 seconds per player per hole which should be easy.

Good post. Drives me bananas when the guy marking the card is first up on next tee box but insists on marking card first. Hit the shot first then mark genius !!!

bustercherry · 19-12-2014 12:56pm

mike12 wrote: »

Think the attitude of 4 hours for a 3 ball is about right is most of the problem. My Dad used to play on a tough course 18 holes for a 4 ball was around 3 hours. How have we added on more than a hour in 30 years.
When i play with my mate first out we are between 2.30 and 2.45, if you add in someone else taking 30 seconds per shot it should come to another 24 mins so it should be around 3.30 for a 4ball.
On you home course the greens don't change so there should be no need to spend time reading chips and walking up looking at green when chipping.
Finish out from inside 2 foot you have read the putt so just tap it in.
You know when the next tee box is.
Pick up your ball when you have scratched no need to mark it for a 7.
First to the tee hits first.
After the first guy has hit from the fairway everyone else should have there club decided on and be ready to go.
Line up you putt as the other guy is tapping in.
Keep pre shot routine to under 30 seconds which can be 3 quick swings and walk in and hit it.
Everyone keep there eys on the ball so you know where to look. When looking start in a straight line walk up and down in the area don't wander around like lost sheep( only 1 lost ball in the ACC using this method).
Mark scores when you are doing nothing else.
if you hole out first get the flag and be ready to put it into the hole.
If you are last to chip on get on and mark your ball so others can start putting. don't walk you bag all the way round the green making other wait.
Brisk walk between shots.

To reduce a round from 4.30 to 4 hours means less than 2 minutes a hole or 30 seconds per player per hole which should be easy.

Oh dear god, they'll have meltdown on here over that. Sure according to the usual suspects the biggest cause of slow play is not leaving you bag on the next tee box prior to putting out

In fairness it's all about common sense.

paulos53 · 19-12-2014 1:01pm

mike12 wrote: »

When i play with my mate first out we are between 2.30 and 2.45, if you add in someone else taking 30 seconds per shot it should come to another 24 mins so it should be around 3.30 for a 4ball.

If you guys can play a round in 48 shots I would expect you to be even quicker than 3.30 for a 4ball :P

mike12 · 19-12-2014 1:21pm

paulos53 wrote: »

If you guys can play a round in 48 shots I would expect you to be even quicker than 3.30 for a 4ball :P

Don't know how i came up with that number maybe it was full shots i was think of.

neckedit · 19-12-2014 1:22pm

ronnoco13 wrote: »

personally an out right ban on practice swings sounds good to me generally will only take one at every shot and by end of round generally have stopped, taking them but will annoy many altho watching ppl take 5 practice swings on a shot its head wrecking, probably a limit on how many you can take on a round or per shot would be better, also pushing forward tees and widening fairways/cutting down rough would help alot. Many clubs could offer 9 hole discounts as it stands not many clubs offer 9 hole only always full round

In my humble opinion banning swings is the most ridiculous solution to this problem I have ever heard, and for a tour player to come out with it comes across as foolish. If players followed the guide lines set out for them by the governing bodies and the respective clubs the problem wouldn't be so bad, a little common courtesy on the course as well will speed up play, I can't remember haw many times I have come across a group who loose a ball and don't call people through, this non compliance has a knock on affect for most of the groups behind them. Is it seemed as some sort of humiliation to loose a ball? if so colour me the most embarrassed man in the golfing world! If each hole had a wee sign beside each green which said "Next tee -> Please leave your trollies here" people may cop on that leaving your bag in front of or to the opposite side of the green is frankly stupid. On the green read a putt while the others in the group are putting, it really is kinda simple.
Mark your card as you leave the next tee box, not on the side of the green. Things we all know but sometimes choose to ignore, I'm not a big practice swinger, I'm a huge believer inn conserving energy for the more important things, like walking.

Sean_pop · 19-12-2014 1:30pm

denisoc16 wrote: »

But you are then taking away any advantage to the fella who keeps it on the fairway instead of spraying it all over the shop. If it comes to shortening up courses and doing away with rough then why not just play pitch & putt.

I agree.

Also, the day seems to be gone were a group calls through a group from behind when they are searching for a Golf ball up ahead.

I'm not saying that this will speed up play immensely.

Also you cant seem to say it to anyone these days to speed up or they take offense straight away.

Anytime i play 18 holes I allocate 5 hours to the round in terms of time. If you think you are going to finish within 4 hours or less you are going to be disappointed nearly all the time if playing in a fourball.

FixdePitchmark · 19-12-2014 3:13pm

practice swings are way overrated.
1 ok
2 come on
3 go away
4 go home

330 to 4 hours should be the target - anything else you are making excuses for yourself or your playing partners. My course - nothing to do with course - attitude, most younger 2 balls would be struggling to keep up with lads in 3 or 4 balls in 50s/60s.

Watching pros too much is problem - hit the ball , watch hurling a bit.

Walking faster too - not just when you notice someone behind.

slave1 · 19-12-2014 3:23pm

denisoc16 wrote: »

But you are then taking away any advantage to the fella who keeps it on the fairway instead of spraying it all over the shop. If it comes to shortening up courses and doing away with rough then why not just play pitch & putt.

Totally agree with you, just suggestions on speeding up a round, not necessarily without an impact. Anyhow, my point was the first cut of rough, say the first 6 feet, I hate when it goes fairway and then immediately high rough where you almost need to be on top of the ball to find it, if you've marginally missed the fairway it is my humble opinion you should be in rough but an effortless find.
Again, point of thread is to speed things up so suggestions will no doubt have an impact on other aspects of the game...

Dbu · 19-12-2014 3:34pm

Younger guys are getting slower because of watching the pro's.

The tours have to take a lot of blame for allowing a pro to take between 5 and 6 hours for a round. some spend 5 minutes reading a putt of 10 feet. crazy stuff

djr15 · 19-12-2014 3:50pm

You must consider the simple fact that if a group playing ahead of you are slow there is very little you can do to speed up your round.

However things that don't help,
marking cards and shaking hands on the green, waiting for playing partner to finish out before lining up your own putt, not watching exactly where your tee shot lands and knowing where it lands to avoid mindless searching.
Simple little things like that can delay a round by 30mins but again if a group ahead of you are slow there is very little you can do.

A course ranger timing each group may help, and could highlight to a slow group after 5/6 holes how slow they actually are but again at a time of limited resources I'm not sure if there is much can be done in that sense.

superhooper · 19-12-2014 4:06pm

djr15 wrote: »

You must consider the simple fact that if a group playing ahead of you are slow there is very little you can do to speed up your round.

But I think you should still play at a reasonable speed and put them under pressure. Laying back will just make the situation worse.

Some form of marshalling is also required even if it is just every now and again. My experience is that nobody really takes anyone on about it when actually on the course.

stitcheddepin · 19-12-2014 4:34pm

make the whole bigger?

djr15 · 19-12-2014 4:36pm

superhooper wrote: »

But I think you should still play at a reasonable speed and put them under pressure. Laying back will just make the situation worse.

Many times when I am playing slow groups are totally oblivious to other groups playing around them and it is these groups that cause much of the difficulty.

dwd · 19-12-2014 5:43pm

I think that the vast majority of time is now wasted on putting. I've played a couple of times this year with guys who in general where not wasting much time on playing full shots, but would spend an age trying to read greens, and I think that watching professionals on tv is where a lot of that comes from. It's mad, if you can see the general slope on the green in a 5 second glance, another 2 minutes faffing around is going to do much to help!

I think it's coming to the point where there should be a simple timestamp machine on the first and 10th tees and after the 18th green to mark your card and a 2 shot penalty should be applied for every 10 mins over the allotted time for everyone in the group, that would quicken things up no end.

kieran. · 19-12-2014 5:50pm

Have to agree DWD with your putting issue. Played in a society outing with 2 guys who were putting using the aim point express system and by god there's nothing express about it resulted in a 5 hour round.

bazzer86 · 19-12-2014 5:54pm

stitcheddepin wrote: »

make the whole bigger?

That was actually mooted as a possibility on the programme I listened to as well as possibly having 2 holes on a green with one giving more points than the other. It'll never happen and a bit daft isn't it?...

dwd wrote: »

I think that the vast majority of time is now wasted on putting. I've played a couple of times this year with guys who in general where not wasting much time on playing full shots, but would spend an age trying to read greens, and I think that watching professionals on tv is where a lot of that comes from. It's mad, if you can see the general slope on the green in a 5 second glance, another 2 minutes faffing around is going to do much to help!

I think it's coming to the point where there should be a simple timestamp machine on the first and 10th tees and after the 18th green to mark your card and a 2 shot penalty should be applied for every 10 mins over the allotted time for everyone in the group, that would quicken things up no end.

Thats as good a suggestion as any... I know in my own club they were talking about sending strongly worded letters to the members who were being noted as being consistently slow, but something like a timestamp is a much better idea, especially if penalties are imposed on players for slow play... Only problem is if there is a backlog, everyone would be behind on time.

superhooper · 19-12-2014 6:30pm

dwd wrote: »

I think that the vast majority of time is now wasted on putting. I've played a couple of times this year with guys who in general where not wasting much time on playing full shots, but would spend an age trying to read greens, and I think that watching professionals on tv is where a lot of that comes from. It's mad, if you can see the general slope on the green in a 5 second glance, another 2 minutes faffing around is going to do much to help!

I think it's coming to the point where there should be a simple timestamp machine on the first and 10th tees and after the 18th green to mark your card and a 2 shot penalty should be applied for every 10 mins over the allotted time for everyone in the group, that would quicken things up no end.

Agree that a lot of time seems to be spent on putting. Some folk get very techy about who's turn it is etc.. That said maybe I need to slow down as I am not immune to the odd 4 putt!!

dwd · 19-12-2014 7:06pm

bazzer86 wrote: »

That was actually mooted as a possibility on the programme I listened to as well as possibly having 2 holes on a green with one giving more points than the other. It'll never happen and a bit daft isn't it?...

Thats as good a suggestion as any... I know in my own club they were talking about sending strongly worded letters to the members who were being noted as being consistently slow, but something like a timestamp is a much better idea, especially if penalties are imposed on players for slow play... Only problem is if there is a backlog, everyone would be behind on time.

I think the only way it would work is if it was automatic, print some sort of computer readable barcode on the card, which would be used by an electronic system to calculate delays, so the first group which causes the delay gets the penalty and then groups coming behind would have this delay allowed for if it was impacting there round, if it was all automated, it would be easy to do. Also this would take any arguing out of it, every group would be subject to the same rules.

dwd · 19-12-2014 7:12pm

superhooper wrote: »

Agree that a lot of time seems to be spent on putting. Some folk get very techy about who's turn it is etc.. That said maybe I need to slow down as I am not immune to the odd 4 putt!!

There's also the argument that a lot of greens are just too fast for the majority amateur golfers. If you know your 4 putt is going to twice as far past if you miss, it going to make you take far longer over it. I remember coming across an article which was saying that the average course in the states greens are something like 2 or 3 faster on the stimpmeter than 20 or 30 years ago, if that is the difference between 6 and 9, it's huge in the amount of control required.

Kingswood Rover · 19-12-2014 10:13pm

One thing that really annoys me is people marking 2 or 3 foot putts or even less, just finsh the bloody thing off. Intresting stat on the fall of off players between 15 and 25, i reckon playstation/xbox thingymajigs have a lot to do with this. I brought my 15 year old for nine holes about 2 years ago and he had the hump because he could not welly it 275 yards off the tee like his Tiger woods game. My nephew asked me to play footie with me last Christmas, i grabbed the bal and headed out the front he headed to the playstation in the back room.

PARlance · 20-12-2014 3:53am

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

i reckon playstation/xbox thingymajigs have a lot to do with this. I brought my 15 year old for nine holes about 2 years ago and he had the hump because he could not welly it 275 yards off the tee like his Tiger woods game. My nephew asked me to play footie with me last Christmas, i grabbed the bal and headed out the front he headed to the playstation in the back room.

That's just bad parenting in fairness. Blame yourself and your brother or sister in that case.

Sean_pop · 21-12-2014 8:22pm

dwd wrote: »

I think the only way it would work is if it was automatic, print some sort of computer readable barcode on the card, which would be used by an electronic system to calculate delays, so the first group which causes the delay gets the penalty and then groups coming behind would have this delay allowed for if it was impacting there round, if it was all automated, it would be easy to do. Also this would take any arguing out of it, every group would be subject to the same rules.

This would make things far to complicated.

Penalising everyone in the group for slow play would be very unfair if there was someone who is not holding things up but just happens to be in a group with slow players.

callaway92 · 21-12-2014 8:42pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

practice swings are way overrated.
1 ok
2 come on
3 go away
4 go home

This is like playing with my Dad. . . So frustratingly slow, but habits develop over the years and they're there to stick!

My most enjoyment I get out of golf is when I'm playing by myself on a summer's evening. Can do 12 holes in about 90 mins and it's very enjoyable. Pretty hard to get a rush out of golf really but that's the only way.

Banning practice swings would be an unfair thing to ever happen. Sometimes you really do need them, especially if there is a delay between all of your shots (groups in front slowing you down etc. .)

FixdePitchmark · 21-12-2014 8:44pm

callaway92 wrote: »

This is like playing with my Dad. . . So frustratingly slow, but habits develop over the years and they're there to stick!

My most enjoyment I get out of golf is when I'm playing by myself on a summer's evening. Can do 12 holes in about 90 mins and it's very enjoyable. Pretty hard to get a rush out of golf really but that's the only way.

Banning practice swings would be an unfair thing to ever happen. Sometimes you really do need them, especially if there is a delay between all of your shots (groups in front slowing you down etc. .)

How many does he take.

Did you say anything to him ?

callaway92 · 21-12-2014 8:55pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

How many does he take.

Did you say anything to him ?

Generally takes 1 or 2. Maybe 3 over drives

Just seems so slow when I compare it to myself. He's not a bad player though so at least he isn't going AWOL with many shots slowing things down even more!

GreeBo · 22-12-2014 12:58am

Sean_pop wrote: »

This would make things far to complicated.

Penalising everyone in the group for slow play would be very unfair if there was someone who is not holding things up but just happens to be in a group with slow players.

We do this, but its not computerised, your printed name sticker has start/stop times on it.

It works well, you dont need to penalise someone the first time, but if the same name is repeatedly appearing on the slow list then they get a call/letter.
If its 1 person out the same 3 ball repeatedly then they all deserve the letter as the other 2 are part of the problem by doing nothing.

Tiger Mcilroy · 22-12-2014 10:10am

The biggest cause of slow play I see is people not watching their ball finish and then get down to where they think it should be.

Also in stroke competitions lads not hitting provisionals is very annoying.

mike12 · 22-12-2014 11:00am

Sean_pop wrote: »

This would make things far to complicated.

Penalising everyone in the group for slow play would be very unfair if there was someone who is not holding things up but just happens to be in a group with slow players.

The hope would be that the group would speed the slow guy up.

How to make rounds shorter

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