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Bcomm Degree To Law Career

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  • 24-09-2013 3:00am
    #1
    TJ9203
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭


    Hello.

    I am just looking for advice about how realistic it is to go into a career in Law after a B.Comm degree. I am currently halfway through Commerce in NUIG but I have always had an interest in law and regret not doing it originally.

    I haven't thought about the Barrister/Solicitor topic yet but would it be difficult to obtain employment in one of those areas if I haven't taken a more direct route with an undergraduate law degree?

    Have I left it too late and sort of messed up any hope of going into that area now? Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks!

    Apologies if I haven't articulated very well - 1st Post.
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    #2
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,478 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    TJ9203 wrote: »
    Hello.

    I am just looking for advice about how realistic it is to go into a career in Law after a B.Comm degree. I am currently halfway through Commerce in NUIG but I have always had an interest in law and regret not doing it originally.

    I haven't thought about the Barrister/Solicitor topic yet but would it be difficult to obtain employment in one of those areas if I haven't taken a more direct route with an undergraduate law degree?

    Have I left it too late and sort of messed up any hope of going into that area now? Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks!

    Apologies if I haven't articulated very well - 1st Post.

    No reason you can't if that's what you want to do. You can sit the fe1s more or less straight away and can do a 2 year diploma in kings inns if that's what you want.

    Have a search of the forum for more details.


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    #3
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    It would be more difficult to obtain employment if you had not taken the indirect path.

    Law degrees are ten a penny, people do them for the craic, having something else to offer is going to be an advantage over someone with just a law degree. Have a search as mentioned above. Some good info about age, degree path and where to get your law qualification.

    If you go down the dip route do yourself a favour and start reading philosophy in your spare time for when you eventually encounter Mr. Langwallner.


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    #4
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Bepolite wrote: »
    It would be more difficult to obtain employment if you had not taken the indirect path.

    Law degrees are ten a penny, people do them for the craic
    You could say the same about BComm degrees - or moreso, in my experience.

    Law degrees are not a barrier to a legal career relative to BComm degrees or any other degree of equivalent level and grade in an Irish University. I would encourage a prospective legal practitioner to do a law degree and not an alternative degree, because being a good lawyer does not just mean passing the professional exams.

    There is a difference between being a tradesman-at-law and being a lawyer. Some will opt for the former, and that is perfectly fine, and good luck. As a matter of course, we should encourage the latter, and with it a more deep seated appreciation of the law, including academic law.


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    #5
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    There is a difference between being a tradesman-at-law and being a lawyer. Some will opt for the former, and that is perfectly fine, and good luck. As a matter of course, we should encourage the latter, and with it a more deep seated appreciation of the law, including academic law.

    I don't think any undergraduate degree really gives you a deep appreciation of the law. I think that point is reinforced by the fact that reading an FE-1 manual cover to cover is going to get you a 2.1 in most undergraduate examinations and that most degree programs are primarily exam based. I think that was very eloquently put recently that it requires years and gallons of midnight oil. In the interim I'd rather see someone with some understanding of a particular area, such as business, or the medical field.

    Perhaps it is a failing of our legal education that we don't adopt an approach closer to the US system and operate law as a post graduate degree. A year at the Kings Inns or two years PPC does seem an awfully short time to take someone from undergrad level to what you're proposing.


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    #6
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    You could say the same about BComm degrees - or moreso, in my experience.

    Law degrees are not a barrier to a legal career relative to BComm degrees or any other degree of equivalent level and grade in an Irish University. I would encourage a prospective legal practitioner to do a law degree and not an alternative degree, because being a good lawyer does not just mean passing the professional exams.

    There is a difference between being a tradesman-at-law and being a lawyer. Some will opt for the former, and that is perfectly fine, and good luck. As a matter of course, we should encourage the latter, and with it a more deep seated appreciation of the law, including academic law.

    Really, really you are now advising a person doing a B Comm that you would encourage a law degree. Maybe I read this thread wrong http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=85964317 but to my feeble old mind the two opinions are mutually incompatible. Or are you saying no degree is better than any degree other than law, as that's the only logical view I can put on the two threads.


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    #7
    TJ9203
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭TJ9203


    Thanks for the advice! The mind is boggled over it all!

    Would changing to a degree in corporate law degree be an obviously better option?


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    #8
    chops018
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭chops018


    From the little experience I have of working in the legal world it seems that academic law has a small part to play in the procedural side of things, so a law degree isn't necessarily essential.

    I said it before, although I absolutely loved a lot of academic law (Administrative Law not included), I do wish I knew the above, if I did I think I definitively would have went down the Business or Commerce or Arts in History or Geography route - to give me other options such as teaching etc. You can always do a prep course for the FE1's, or the 2 year diploma to get into KI, or alternatively the Master's in Common Law in UCD, which I've heard is just like a law degree packed into a year (it could be two I'm not sure).

    Anyway all you need to do to sit the FE1's (the entrance exams to Blackhall Place to start the Professional Practice Course to become a Solicitor) is have a level 8 degree, the same with getting onto the diploma course (which is part time) to get into Kings Inns to become a Barrister.

    I agree with GCDLawStudent, er, I mean Procrastastudy ..... actually BePolite, in that a law degree is not necessarily essential for a career in law. Yes it may give you an advantage in the entrance exams etc, but from what I can see that seems to be it. In no way does it prepare you for a procedural career in law and I have a degree and Masters in law, and even at that I'm over a year at the FE1's and only coming to the end of them now, by jaysus, they are a tough set of exams to get through.

    You have plenty of options open when you finish your Commerce degree, and you have options in the legal sphere too.

    I'm surprised people didn't attack you for wanting to go down the law route. It seems to be popular on here that the second anyone asks about it they say things like "there is no jobs, no money in that anymore, way to hard to make a living, good luck to you getting a job, I hope your uncle is a Solicitor or a Barrister because that's the only way you'll get in etc.". Don't listen to them, it does seem the recession hit law hard, but I have noticed it is slightly picking up so hopefully that trend continues. Also it's the same as anything, work hard and you will get the benefits, don't work hard and you will see fairly quick how unforgiving it can be.... the same as any profession.


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    #9
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    TJ9203 wrote: »
    Thanks for the advice! The mind is boggled over it all!

    Would changing to a degree in corporate law degree be an obviously better option?

    For what it's worth from my point of view I don't think it matters.

    Will it increase your interest in the subject? If so do it, it'll increase your grades. If you're 19/20/21 I wouldn't worry about it too much, you've plenty of time to get a law qualification in whatever that might be. I'd decide on the legal route you want to take and then figure it out.

    Solicitor: You can just sit the FE-1s without further qualifications. If you must do a law degree, do it and sit the FE-1s at the same time as your undergrad exams.

    Barrister: Two year Diploma + 1 year Barrister at Law Degree, no need to do a law degree, you'll be subjected to Jurisprudence at the Inns :D


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    #10
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    chops018 wrote: »
    I'm surprised people didn't attack you for wanting to go down the law route. It seems to be popular on here that the second anyone asks about it they say things like "there is no jobs, no money in that anymore, way to hard to make a living, good luck to you getting a job, I hope your uncle is a Solicitor or a Barrister because that's the only way you'll get in etc.". Don't listen to them, it does seem the recession hit law hard, but I have noticed it is slightly picking up so hopefully that trend continues. Also it's the same as anything, work hard and you will get the benefits, don't work hard and you will see fairly quick how unforgiving it can be.... the same as any profession.

    Maybe we're all mellowing. :pac:

    OP you should go in with your eyes open though. A law career isn't necessarily well paid or even averagely paid. To be fair the OP is one of the first in a long time to have shown a genuine interest rather then the job he might get out of it at the end.


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    #11
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Bepolite wrote: »
    I don't think any undergraduate degree really gives you a deep appreciation of the law.
    It doesn't guarantee to do so. However, an undergraduate degree can give a very good student student time and space to fully develop his legal education. The FE1s and the PPCs and the Inns are a scramble that borders on rote learning, in my experience. It is true that the same can be said of a struggling law undergraduate, but the way law is taught at University is an increasingly dynamic and adventurous experience, and i am not assuming that the OP will be a struggling kind of student.
    infosys wrote: »
    Really, really you are now advising a person doing a B Comm that you would encourage a law degree. Maybe I read this thread wrong http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=85964317 but to my feeble old mind...
    Let me stop you right there, because I'm pretty sure this has been explained to you before, on another thread, where you had again raised it.

    The advice I have given above is advice I would give a bright eyed 18 year old with plenty of potential and time on his hands, who cannot launch straight into the Preliminary exam. It is not the advice I would give someone in their mid 20s who has neither the time (nor perhaps the motivation) to elect to spend 4 years at University. The latter individual is often not looking for an academic discursion per se, but is typically intent on becoming what I called a tradesman lawyer, i.e. your average small town solicitor.

    To summarize, and to make this clear for one final time, if some 17 year old came to me and asked whether they should do a BComm or a LLB/ BCL, then all else being equal I would say do the latter, each time.

    That is not the same thing as being approached by a mature student who just wants to become a lawyer with minimum time and cost.


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    #12
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    It doesn't guarantee to do so. However, an undergraduate degree can give a very good student student time and space to fully develop his legal education. The FE1s and the PPCs and the Inns are a scramble that borders on rote learning, in my experience. It is true that the same can be said of a struggling law undergraduate, but the way law is taught at University is an increasingly dynamic and adventurous experience, and i am not assuming that the OP will be a struggling kind of student.


    Let me stop you right there, because I'm pretty sure this has been explained to you before, on another thread, where you had again raised it.

    The advice I have given above is advice I would give a bright eyed 18 year old with plenty of potential and time on his hands, who cannot launch straight into the Preliminary exam. It is not the advice I would give someone in their mid 20s who has neither the time (nor perhaps the motivation) to elect to spend 4 years at University. The latter individual is often not looking for an academic discursion per se, but is typically intent on becoming what I called a tradesman lawyer, i.e. your average small town solicitor.

    To summarize, and to make this clear for one final time, if some 17 year old came to me and asked whether they should do a BComm or a LLB/ BCL, then all else being equal I would say do the latter, each time.

    That is not the same thing as being approached by a mature student who just wants to become a lawyer with minimum time and cost.

    My point the last time and this, is I would advise a degree to any person who wishes to undertake a professional qualification like law. Such advice of mine like yours was a personal opinion based on my own experience as I assume your advice is based on your opinion is based on your own unique experiences. My issue then was your dismissal of my opinion, it seemed for no other reason than it disagreed with yours.

    In relation to point in hand I accept your view that a law degree is a good start for a life in law. But I add that many practitioners are at both professions with many different degrees and grades. Each as they say to their own http://www.supremecourt.ie/supremecourt/sclibrary3.nsf/pagecurrent/5C73008BBE0F9BB98025741800405F3C?opendocument&l=en but a lot of Arts degrees in that bunch, History, Economics and Mathematics to name 3 degrees held by member of the SC in fact in my one personal opinion 2 of the best judges have BA undergrad degrees.

    BTW the SC web site could sure do with an upgrade.


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    #13
    NoQuarter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭NoQuarter


    TJ9203 wrote: »
    Thanks for the advice! The mind is boggled over it all!

    Would changing to a degree in corporate law degree be an obviously better option?

    Keep going with your commerce degree, no need to change at all. Just have a clear end plan of where you want to go after it and we can advise you here on the best way to get there.


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