Is it possible to be homeless in Ireland?

cautiouscarguy · 27-02-2013 4:18pm #1

Disregarding junkies/alcos etc who wont make any effort. Just say the average person with even the slightest drive/motivation to do something with themselves. I dont think it is possible. Social welfare and council housing. Or social welfare with rent allowance to a private landlord.

Anyway thats my argument. My sister on the other hand thinks Im wrong and that its very easy for a decent, hard working person to be made unemployed and left with just a sleeping bag on a park bench.

AnonoBoy · 27-02-2013 4:18pm

Your sister is right.

Right we've got that sorted.

NEXT!

Nodin · 27-02-2013 4:19pm

Well lets try an experiment.

Do you have a source of ignition and some petrol to hand?

Shenshen · 27-02-2013 4:19pm

Looking at the numbers of homeless people in Ireland, I think reality agrees with your sister on that one.

Mr Benevolent · 27-02-2013 4:20pm

WTF? You can be homeless without being a 'junkie/alco etc who wont make any effort'. So many homeless people have mental health problems, where does that fit in your trite little definition?

Actually, I'm off to donate to the Simon Community.

clairefontaine · 27-02-2013 4:24pm

Isnt it strange that with all these abandoned estates and housing that there are homeless?

Can't something be done with them?

wp_rathead · 27-02-2013 4:25pm

So this is what Mitt Romney is up to these days..

..homelessness down to "lack of motivation".. focking hell

27-02-2013 4:25pm

Did you even do the teeniest bit of research on this before "disregarding" people who won't make an effort, and telling your sister she's wrong.

Yes. People who once lived half decent lives can end up homeless. It's happening right now. It could happen to you.

cautiouscarguy · 27-02-2013 4:25pm

Confab wrote: »

WTF? You can be homeless without being a 'junkies/alco etc who wont make any effort'. So many homeless people have mental health problems, where does that fit in your trite little definition?

Actually, I'm off to donate to the Simon Community.

Ok just to be clear. When I said average person. That meant a person who is in full mental health, full physcial health etc..

Just for example. Maybe he owns his own business and has 3 or 4 employees, has his wife and kids. Hard working etc. Thats the kinda person Im thinking of. Is it likely that say his business would go under and then him, his wife and kids will all end up sleeping rough for the next couple of years. And each day is a struggle to find food to eat.

Mr Benevolent · 27-02-2013 4:26pm

cautiouscarguy wrote: »

Ok just to be clear. When I said average person. That meant a person who is in full mental health, full physcial health.

Just for example. Maybe he owns his own business and has 3 or 4 employees, has his wife and kids. Hard working etc. Thats the kinda person Im thinking of. Is it likely that say his business would go under and then him, his wife and kids will all end up sleeping rough.

In that case, very unlikely but possible. I'm still glad I donated though.

Irishcrx · 27-02-2013 4:28pm

No of course you can't REALLY become homeless in Ireland.

You might loose your mind , house , job , all worldly possesions , be declared bankrupt , have no friends or family willing to support you , no income , can't get a job because you've no address or decent clothes and haven't eaten in a few days, or even be so hooked on drugs that reality is a perception and you can't find a way out.

But that won't matter in Ireland because after a few days the magical house and money fairy will come and visit , he'll get you off the street , give you a home , job and a few quid and everything will be grand.

Pilotdude5 · 27-02-2013 4:37pm

It depends. My neighbour owes 40 million to the bank but still has his house, two cars etc.

I owe 8k and if I miss a payment I will be out on the street, or sent to the super-secret Gulag on the Blasket Islands, that definitely doesn't exist guys.

carlmango11 · 27-02-2013 4:38pm

I wouldn't be so quick to disregard the OP's point as ridiculous. How many homeless people have you encountered who weren't clearly addicts of some sort or just nutcases? I've met none.

Isn't everyone entitled to the dole? Surely that's enough to put a roof over your head. Although I think self-employed people are special cases or something so perhaps they are at risk.

Where To · 27-02-2013 4:41pm

It's possible but inexcusable in my opinion.

There's no valid reason why anyone in any first world country shouldn't have food or shelter.

Boombastic · 27-02-2013 4:57pm

cautiouscarguy wrote: »

Disregarding junkies/alcos etc who wont make any effort. Just say the average person with even the slightest drive/motivation to do something with themselves. I dont think it is possible. Social welfare and council housing. Or social welfare with rent allowance to a private landlord.

Anyway thats my argument. My sister on the other hand thinks Im wrong and that its very easy for a decent, hard working person to be made unemployed and left with just a sleeping bag on a park bench.

In theory no, but in reality yes - the time it takes to get the social welfare, rent allowance etc sorted, is when people get stuck between a rock an a hard place.

pabloh999 · 27-02-2013 4:57pm

Where To wrote: »

It's possible but inexcusable in my opinion.

There's no valid reason why anyone in any first world country shouldn't have food or shelter.

It is crazy to think anybody could be homeless, but there are people out there who are just a mess, everything they touch turns to sh1t.
No luck, no willpower and always f*cking up. Ive met one or two, only for good friends and family they would be prime candidates to end up on the street

super_furry · 27-02-2013 4:58pm

Lot of newly regged people today posting absolute ****e.

Czarcasm · 27-02-2013 4:59pm

carlmango11 wrote: »

I wouldn't be so quick to disregard the OP's point as ridiculous.

I would, but purely for the sake of it I'd entertain their opinion in the interests of an informed discussion and creating further awareness of the issue.

How many homeless people have you encountered who weren't clearly addicts of some sort or just nutcases? I've met none.

Despite what you see on TV, most of them don't go around announcing the fact with placards. Most of them try to stay invisible as possible for fear of derision from some people. The irony of the above then.

Isn't everyone entitled to the dole?

Nope, and even harder to get it if you don't have a residential address or fail to meet habitual residency conditions.

Surely that's enough to put a roof over your head.

See above- it is if you can get it!

Although I think self-employed people are special cases or something so perhaps they are at risk.

There are no special exceptions made for self employed people, they're just on a different tax table and are means tested using pretty much the same methods as anyone else who finds themselves unemployed.

TL;DR: To answer the OP's question-

Is it possible? Yes.

Is it necessary? No.

orestes · 27-02-2013 5:01pm

cautiouscarguy wrote: »

Disregarding junkies/alcos etc who wont make any effort.

Yeah, cos they don't count as people or anything, lazy bastards just hiding behind their so-called addictions so they can carry on living the good life on the streets.

BOHtox · 27-02-2013 5:06pm

I see a lot of homeless people where I work and it's mostly their choice, implicitly or explicitly. Any money they make is spent on beer and fags instead of putting it in to a hostel or rent for a house etc. There's enough help there for them and they either refuse it or sponge from it. I don't want anyone to be homeless ideally but realistically people are content to stay homeless.

sbsquarepants · 27-02-2013 5:08pm

No, OP it is not possible to be homeless in Ireland. Since the introduction of property tax, it is now strictly illegal to be homeless, however the government have promised to address the situation as soon as the new sleeping bag tax bill is passed.

cautiouscarguy · 27-02-2013 5:14pm

I didnt want to bog the thread down with a whole big story, but seeing as everyone seems to think Im taking the piss I might aswell give some perspective.

My brother recently employed a young man who was on social welfare for 3 years. I got talking to him one day and asked him how did he manage for so long unemployed and his simple answer was "xbox, weed, sleep".

Thats how I came to the conclusion that it must be pretty near impossible to be made homeless in this country.

But seemingly, Im hugely mistaken.

Czarcasm · 27-02-2013 5:14pm

BOHtox wrote: »

I see a lot of homeless people where I work and it's mostly their choice, implicitly or explicitly. Any money they make is spent on beer and fags instead of putting it in to a hostel or rent for a house etc. There's enough help there for them and they either refuse it or sponge from it. I don't want anyone to be homeless ideally but realistically people are contempt to stay homeless.

Did you mean "content", because context is important. I'm hoping that was an autocorrect because otherwise your post is indeed contemptible.

fishy fishy · 27-02-2013 5:17pm

cautiouscarguy wrote: »

Ok just to be clear. When I said average person. That meant a person who is in full mental health, full physcial health etc..

Just for example. Maybe he owns his own business and has 3 or 4 employees, has his wife and kids. Hard working etc. Thats the kinda person Im thinking of. Is it likely that say his business would go under and then him, his wife and kids will all end up sleeping rough for the next couple of years. And each day is a struggle to find food to eat.

you do know that if you are self employed in ireland you are not entitled to any social welfare payment if your business goes down the swanny.

BOHtox · 27-02-2013 5:20pm

Czarcasm wrote: »

Did you mean "content", because context is important. I'm hoping that was an autocorrect because otherwise your post is indeed contemptible.

I looked at the spell check and it seemed all fine so I clicked post. Next time I'll be proof reading it.

orestes · 27-02-2013 5:23pm

cautiouscarguy wrote: »

I didnt want to bog the thread down with a whole big story, but seeing as everyone seems to think Im taking the piss I might aswell give some perspective.

My brother recently employed a young man who was on social welfare for 3 years. I got talking to him one day and asked him how did he manage for so long unemployed and his simple answer was "xbox, weed, sleep".

Thats how I came to the conclusion that it must be pretty near impossible to be made homeless in this country.

But seemingly, Im hugely mistaken.

What does that have to do with being homeless?

I Heart Internet · 27-02-2013 5:28pm

The OP is making a point that I've pondered myself - even wondered about for myself in darker moments - what's the worst that could happen? How far could you fall into trouble if certain things in life went against you?

It does seem that most (not all) people living homeless (on the street or in very short-term, maybe night-by-night accomodation) are in that position due to a either a mental health problem, addiction, or a complete failure of that person's support network (family or friends) or the reluctance of the person to reach out and ask for help to those family and friends.

In my own case, if I had no job and no money and the social welfare couldn't keep a roof over my head, I've no doubt there would be a bed for me in my parents or siblings homes. I would do the same if the case was reversed.

But for those afflicted with mental health problems, addiction or a family that doesn't give a damn, I can see how one might slip through the net and end up on the street.

I imagine it's unlikely - but, heh, it happens to people.

HondaSami · 27-02-2013 5:28pm

cautiouscarguy wrote: »

I didnt want to bog the thread down with a whole big story, but seeing as everyone seems to think Im taking the piss I might aswell give some perspective.

My brother recently employed a young man who was on social welfare for 3 years. I got talking to him one day and asked him how did he manage for so long unemployed and his simple answer was "xbox, weed, sleep".

Thats how I came to the conclusion that it must be pretty near impossible to be made homeless in this country.

But seemingly, Im hugely mistaken.

I'm confused here, He was unemployed, was he living at home or renting?

What has this to do with people who are homeless?

dearg lady · 27-02-2013 5:29pm

fishy fishy wrote: »

you do know that if you are self employed in ireland you are not entitled to any social welfare payment if your business goes down the swanny.

That's not true. Self employed people are not entitled to JSB as they pay a much lower rate of PRSI. They are however entitled to apply for means tested JSA, the same as anyone would be.

Czarcasm · 27-02-2013 5:30pm

fishy fishy wrote: »

you do know that if you are self employed in ireland you are not entitled to any social welfare payment if your business goes down the swanny.

You've just displayed the reason why a lot of middle class people can suddenly find themselves homeless. Thirty seconds on citizensadvice.ie would've cleared up that myth for you. It's one that has a lot of people thinking "well I'm not entitled to anything", etc.

If you don't check, you have nobody to blame but yourself. The resources are there in place to try and make sure nobody goes homeless, but too many people have themselves written off already and bury their heads in the sand without taking the 30 seconds effort required to check their facts before they end up in situations that are all that much harder to come back from.

cautiouscarguy · 27-02-2013 5:39pm

HondaSami wrote: »

I'm confused here, He was unemployed, was he living at home or renting?

What has this to do with people who are homeless?

He was living in a council house. Which brings us back to my argument. If a hardworking decent person was to fall on hard times... well its hard to imagine seeing him and his family in sleeping bags at the local bus stop. I would imagine they would be also be able to avail of a council house and social welfare. Granted it might not be a nice life.... but its better than a sleeping bag.

HondaSami · 27-02-2013 5:44pm

cautiouscarguy wrote: »

He was living in a council house. Which brings us back to my argument. If a hardworking decent person was to fall on hard times... well its hard to imagine seeing him and his family in sleeping bags at the local bus stop. I would imagine they would be also be able to avail of a council house and social welfare. Granted it might not be a nice life.... but its better than a sleeping bag.

I would think the majority of homeless people are homeless by choice or their lifestyle.

If a hard working person falls on hard times there is help out there, or living with family is an option.

Handsome Bob · 27-02-2013 5:45pm

BOHtox wrote: »

I see a lot of homeless people where I work and it's mostly their choice, implicitly or explicitly. Any money they make is spent on beer and fags instead of putting it in to a hostel or rent for a house etc. There's enough help there for them and they either refuse it or sponge from it. I don't want anyone to be homeless ideally but realistically people are content to stay homeless.

Sit in a rehab centre for one day and you'll quickly realise that "content" doesn't come into it.

dearg lady · 27-02-2013 5:46pm

HondaSami wrote: »

I would think the majority of homeless people are homeless by choice or their lifestyle.

If a hard working person falls on hard times there is help out there, or living with family is an option.

my ex was homeless for a few months. He was thrown out of family home and nowhere else to stay. After a while I think he crashed with mates and then got a job, but a few months living rough. But I would agree the majority are by choice or lifestyle

topper75 · 27-02-2013 6:03pm

I'm sure the homeless I see on the streets of our towns put themselves there. Or maybe it was the The Man.
OP, did your sister talk about The Man?

Even if a gas explosion destoyed my house and everything I own God forbid in this very night, I'd move in with friends, get onto the SW, VdeP - whoever. I wouldn't be cowering in a doorway with cardboard and a sleeping back asking passersby for change.

I Heart Internet · 27-02-2013 6:08pm

topper75 wrote: »

I'm sure the homeless I see on the streets of our towns put themselves there. Or maybe it was the The Man.
OP, did your sister talk about The Man?

Even if a gas explosion destoyed my house and everything I own God forbid in this very night, I'd move in with friends, get onto the SW, VdeP - whoever. I wouldn't be cowering in a doorway with cardboard and a sleeping back asking passersby for change.

I agree with you topper. But people do sleep in doorways.

I think it happens when people's safety net(s) fail them - their family, friends, any education they might have had. The safety net fails them or (maybe more common) they're unwilling or unable to accept any help.

Is it possible to be homeless in Ireland?

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