M8 motorway (general thread)

marmurr1916 · 03-10-2008 4:59pm

Stark wrote: »

Can it actually be kept though? I remember the Cashel bypass being terminated by roundabouts with the old N8 at both ends but they had to be removed to make way for sliproads and dumbbell roundabouts and to allow it to continue seamlessly into the new M8 sections.

Fair point. I was thinking more of a junction serving Cullahill and Durrow I guess. It would also provide a link to the N77 for traffic heading to Kilkenny.

BluntGuy · 03-10-2008 5:45pm

Looking at the EIS for the portaloise-cullahill, the drawings indicate that the section was to end at an AT-GRADE roundabout, that was to be removed once cullahill-cashel was complete.

HOWEVER...

Since Cullahill-Cashel is going to opening beforehand, perhaps things may have changed.

I haven't been up there for a while, so I don't know what they're doing.

If they're building a (grade-seperated) dumbell junction, it's unlikely that they'll remove it (waste of money). However, if they're building an at-grade roundabout then... their evil plan is going to become a reality. I just hope it's the former of the two.

Amtmann · 03-10-2008 7:33pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

Looking at the EIS for the portaloise-cullahill, the drawings indicate that the section was to end at an AT-GRADE roundabout, that was to be removed once cullahill-cashel was complete.

HOWEVER...

Since Cullahill-Cashel is going to opening beforehand, perhaps things may have changed.

I haven't been up there for a while, so I don't know what they're doing.

If they're building a (grade-seperated) dumbell junction, it's unlikely that they'll remove it (waste of money). However, if they're building an at-grade roundabout then... their evil plan is going to become a reality. I just hope it's the former of the two.

It's at grade unfortunately.

BluntGuy · 03-10-2008 7:42pm

Well then...

That's bad news.

It means that their original plan is going ahead.

However, the plan is stupid as it will require massive roadworks to remove the damn thing. It also means that people who enter at Cullahill on a regular basis from December 5th (presumably), will be denied access from that point when the Cullahill-Portlaoise section opens.

It's such a badly-thought out idea, but there's nothing we can do to change it I guess.

Amtmann · 03-10-2008 9:03pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

Well then...

That's bad news.

It means that their original plan is going ahead.

However, the plan is stupid as it will require massive roadworks to remove the damn thing. It also means that people who enter at Cullahill on a regular basis from December 5th (presumably), will be denied access from that point when the Cullahill-Portlaoise section opens.

It's such a badly-thought out idea, but there's nothing we can do to change it I guess.

It's won't be that awkward to remove. The roundabout is not situated at the end of the Cashel to Cullahill scheme.
Instead, it is at the end of an at grade slip road (about 50 meters in length) which juts off laterally from the mainline to join the present N8 about 50 meters from the terminal point of the C to C scheme, meaning that it will be reasonably easy and inexpensive to remove.

Obviously I agree that it's a small scandal that a new junction isn't being built.

BluntGuy · 03-10-2008 9:07pm

Furet wrote: »

Not really. The roundabout is not situated at the end of the Cashel to Cullahill scheme.
Instead, it is at the end of an at grade slip road (about 50 meters in length) which juts off laterally from the mainline to join the present N8 about 50 meters from the terminal point of the C to C scheme, meaning that it will be easy and inexpensive to remove.

That's funny.

The EIS has it as an at-grade roundabout straight at the end of the mainline (rather than jutting off).

Is there anyway the roundabout could be maintained (at least to give people an oppurtunity to avoid the toll)?

Amtmann · 03-10-2008 11:03pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

That's funny.

The EIS has it as an at-grade roundabout straight at the end of the mainline (rather than jutting off).

Is there anyway the roundabout could be maintained (at least to give people an oppurtunity to avoid the toll)?

I'm no expert, but I don't see how just yet. The slip road (such as it is) is sited on what will be the southbound side of the motorway; yet the direction of the sliproad is lateral, almost at a narrow oblique angle to the motorway (a southbound car on the M8 that wanted to take it would have to slow down well in advance and indicate), and obviously there'll be no access for northbound traffic when the scheme is completed, so I think it'll definitely have to go. Also, it's really short. Because it's at grade, and because there's no high ground near it, I can't take a photo, so here is a pathetic drawing:

Danno · 03-10-2008 11:15pm

I was looking at it today myself and they've started tar work on the roundabout on the Laois Kilkenny border. It seems that the drawing posted bu Furet is quite accurate.

However, the grand plan AFAIK is for the N77 to begin here and run to Durrow, where a southern bypass is planned. So it is hard to see why this border junction will be removed. Unless of course, they decide to run the N77 to Urlingford?

Amtmann · 03-10-2008 11:25pm

Danno wrote: »

I was looking at it today myself and they've started tar work on the roundabout on the Laois Kilkenny border. It seems that the drawing posted bu Furet is quite accurate.

However, the grand plan AFAIK is for the N77 to begin here and run to Durrow, where a southern bypass is planned. So it is hard to see why this border junction will be removed. Unless of course, they decide to run the N77 to Urlingford?

Danno, where did you hear it'll open on Dec 5?

BluntGuy · 03-10-2008 11:31pm

Okay... I get it now.

It's a shame, because it seems kinda unfair to people who live in Cullahill.

I guess it's okay as long as they don't stick toll gantries onto junction 3. However, if the M8 Fermoy scheme is anything to go by, that's exactly what they'll do.

If they do that: in effect, the PPP starts at Junction 4 - Urlingford.

Amtmann · 03-10-2008 11:36pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

Okay... I get it now.

It's a shame, because it seems kinda unfair to people who live in Cullahill.

I guess it's okay as long as they don't stick toll gantries onto junction 3. However, if the M8 Fermoy scheme is anything to go by, that's exactly what they'll do.

If they do that: in effect, the PPP starts at Junction 4 - Urlingford.

Of course the NRA can always say that the 12 km of the Cashel to Cullahill Scheme that started off as motorway is and always will be toll free -- you just can't leave it once you're on it without entering the PPP scheme too. Weasel words, but there you go...

BluntGuy · 03-10-2008 11:45pm

Well the Cullahill-Portlaoise EIS doesn't have toll gantries on any of the junctions, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that that's how it will ultimately end up.

But I have this feeling that they will be sticking toll gantries on junction 3 and junction 20. You can tell by the position and the design (especially junction 20).

I think if this wasn't being done as a PPP scheme we'd probably have:

> A full M7-M8 junction. Or at least a junction that permits M8N > M7W movements (wouldn't be too difficult, only requires an at-grade left slip).

> A proper, full junction 20, rather than a horrible limited access junction which only permits you to enter and exit the M7 from a westbound direction.

> A junction near Cullahill.

However, as with most PPP schemes, getting the most money out of the road means restricting access as much as possible so that you can toll EVERYBODY who uses the road.

Danno · 04-10-2008 7:29pm

There is a junction on the Roscrea-Durrow (R434) for this motorway. I'm sure that toll avoiders will contemplate using this, use it a few times, see how poor the Ballacolla -> Abbeyleix R433 route is and say, feck it, I'll just pay the €2.

Danno · 04-10-2008 7:30pm

Furet wrote: »

Danno, where did you hear it'll open on Dec 5?

A friend of a friend of the builder. It is hearsay, but I'd be pretty confident it will turn out on Dec 5th.

Amtmann · 04-10-2008 9:43pm

Danno wrote: »

A friend of a friend of the builder. It is hearsay, but I'd be pretty confident it will turn out on Dec 5th.

Thanks. I think it definitely won't open any later than that. I remember about a month before the Cashel to Mitchelstown scheme opened, people were saying "early August"; it opened late July.

I'm still holding out for the last week of November. It'll make a huge difference to County Tipperary: the entire county will be bisected by the M8 when it opens. And rapid progress is now being made. It seems as though the builders are making a bust at it now.

The tie in with the Cashel Bypass is all but complete: both carriageways are in the process of being lined and have cats eyes put down. So, we should see the unsightly sandbags and cones being removed from the northern end of the Cashel Bypass very soon.

The scheme is lined (pretty much) up as far the Horse and Jockey/Thurles junction (Exit 6). From here to the next junction is not lined, nor has the final coat of asphalt been applied. That is being done next week.

From Junction 5 (Two-mile-borris) to Junction 4 (Urlingford) the scheme is complete, except for the actual Junction 4 itself. Rapid progress is being made here, however. From there the scheme is finished right up to its terminus at the Laois border, where a temporary slip road and roundabout have been placed.

Meanwhile, in the County of Cork the Mitchelstown to Fermoy scheme proceeds apace. Two photos are linked to below. I now believe the entire scheme will open at the same time, and by March/April next year.

Why?

Because many parts of the scheme are as advanced now as Cashel to Cullahill was last June. Also, because they are getting ready now at both ends to tie the scheme into the southern terminus of the Cashel to Mitchelstown project and the northern terminus of the Fermoy Bypass.

I'm very excited about this section opening. I think this is the bit where the most time saving will be made (relative to its length) and it will replace what is without doubt a very treacherous stretch of the N8 -- one where people die annually.

I also think this scheme will be very scenic when it opens. It passes through some lovely countryside and isn't sunk down too deeply everywhere.

Stark · 10-10-2008 10:45pm

Danno wrote: »

There is a junction on the Roscrea-Durrow (R434) for this motorway. I'm sure that toll avoiders will contemplate using this, use it a few times, see how poor the Ballacolla -> Abbeyleix R433 route is and say, feck it, I'll just pay the €2.

The Ballycolla -> Durrow R434 is a nice road though. Not quite as direct as going straight to Abbeyleix, but you'd still get to use an extra 10km of motorway for free, assuming they don't put toll gantries on Junction 3.

BluntGuy · 10-10-2008 10:56pm

Danno wrote: »

There is a junction on the Roscrea-Durrow (R434) for this motorway. I'm sure that toll avoiders will contemplate using this, use it a few times, see how poor the Ballacolla -> Abbeyleix R433 route is and say, feck it, I'll just pay the €2.

I am almost certain they'll shove toll gantries onto junction 3.

Junction 2 is local access only which is useless if you're trying to avoid paying the toll.

Junction 1 leads straight into the M7 for the toll plaza.

So the only option will be to exit at junction 4 if you want to save yourself that bit o' cash.

Now, of course, they may be nice and allow motorists to escape at junction 3. If that happens, well... it'll just be wonderful.

BluntGuy · 11-10-2008 8:37pm

Aplogies for the double-post, but I just have to say this.

Like Furet says, this Mitchelstown-Fermoy section is really flying along!

I drove past there earliar (I wish I'd taken some shots), and there is so much work done, especially past junction 13. Junction 13 to Junction 14 is in many senses complete. They've begun to erect the foundations for the central median, and the tie-in work near Fermoy is progessing quite well (although it is quite messy).

I know Furet already said this, but after seeing it for myself I just couldn't believe the outstanding progress.

It's certainly gonna be opening a long time before March 2010 (as the sign near the road says)...

Bards · 13-10-2008 12:17pm

some of you may be interested in this http://www.engineersireland.ie/uploads/Files/EngineeringMagazines/%7B2CBDBF46B3AA481E99A503868CED8766%7D_CASHEL_MITCHELSTOWN.PDF

Amtmann · 13-10-2008 3:44pm

Okay, so I managed to speak to a builder on Mitchelstown to Fermoy today, and he says there'll be a sectional opeing between Junction 13 and 14, probably by March. The remainder will probably open by June.

Amtmann · 13-10-2008 4:19pm

Bit of an update on the Cork Roads Office site; it seems Roadbridge have formally acknowledged that the scheme will open earlier than initially anticipated, though they're still being very conservative with the December 09 figure. (We know better

)

http://www.corkrdo.ie/n8_fermoy_mitchelstown_scheme_current_stage.php

BluntGuy · 13-10-2008 6:22pm

Furet wrote: »

Bit of an update on the Cork Roads Office site; it seems Roadbridge have formally acknowledged that the scheme will open earlier than initially anticipated, though they're still being very conservative with the December 09 figure. (We know better )

http://www.corkrdo.ie/n8_fermoy_mitchelstown_scheme_current_stage.php

December 09?

Whose arse did they pull that figure out of? :rolleyes:

Have any of the people who work at the Cork Roads Office actually SEEN the progress being made there...

August 09 would have been a much better date if they wanted to be conservative about it.

But then again, I suppose, if they set later dates: they make it seem like the projects were completed "early".

Amtmann · 13-10-2008 7:27pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

December 09?

Whose arse did they pull that figure out of? :rolleyes:

Have any of the people who work at the Cork Roads Office actually SEEN the progress being made there...

August 09 would have been a much better date if they wanted to be conservative about it.

But then again, I suppose, if they set later dates: they make it seem like the projects were completed "early".

Actually Roadbridge gave the Dec. 09 estimate. Cute-hoordom is alive and well (but in this case, who's complaining? Methinks Roadbridge is a super contractor).

serfboard · 14-10-2008 3:17pm

Furet wrote: »

Actually Roadbridge gave the Dec. 09 estimate. Cute-hoordom is alive and well (but in this case, who's complaining? Methinks Roadbridge is a super contractor).

Presumably there are bonuses to be paid if the contract comes in ahead of schedule?

marmurr1916 · 15-10-2008 12:00am

Furet wrote: »

Okay, so I managed to speak to a builder on Mitchelstown to Fermoy today, and he says there'll be a sectional opeing between Junction 13 and 14, probably by March. The remainder will probably open by June.

Cool. Motorway all the way from Dunkettle to just south of the Mitchelstown bypass by Easter. :cool:

BluntGuy · 15-10-2008 12:22am

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Cool. Motorway all the way from Dunkettle to just south of the Mitchelstown bypass by Easter. :cool:

Dunkettle to Cullahill by August methinks...

That's roughly 115 km...

That of course is assuming that Dunkettle is redesignated and has its signage replaced before that time.

The NRA did say that this round of redesignations would be a lot quicker, so I think it's reasonable to say that the S.I will be passed in January.

BluntGuy · 24-10-2008 2:27pm

Just been to the Cork Roads website and I think congratulations are in order.

In just under a year of construction, they have managed to upload an amazing two pictures onto their website. Compare that to the N25 website which is chock full of information (except of course whether the damn road is a motorway).

Can't somebody there spare a few minutes to upload a couple of snaps and make the page a bit more informative.

Irish and Proud · 24-10-2008 4:57pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

Just been to the Cork Roads website and I think congratulations are in order.

In just under a year of construction, they have managed to upload an amazing two pictures onto their website. Compare that to the N25 website which is chock full of information (except of course whether the damn road is a motorway).

Can't somebody there spare a few minutes to upload a couple of snaps and make the page a bit more informative.

By coincidence, that's exactly what I'm thinking in relation to Irish road construction as a whole. The information available, considering the sheer scale of road construction here, is pathetic. Even though Britain has around 14 times our population, if the same linear distance of motorway was currently under construction there, one would never hear the end of it - the British would be a greatest ever. You know, 4 major motorways underway here as opposed the Britain's two (A1(M) and M74), and apart from Furet's contribution, sweet damn all about the Irish M6, M7, M8 and M9 motorways, not to mention the M50 upgrade which has some very complex junctions, comparable to most major junctions in Britain. Sure if Britain had a similar road blitz underway, the SABRE servers would melt under the volume of web traffic. :eek:

Now, please don't say that Britain already has a motorway network - it does, but it's rather basic with the West (M5/M6/M74) and East (M1) spines, with a couple of cross links (M4 & M62), a couple of Rings (M25 & M60) and spurs (M3, M8, M11, M20 etc). For 60m people, the network is inadequate - for example, the A14, A34, A27, A55 etc should all be of motorway standard. The get straight to the point, if all of the proposed motorways in Ireland get built (and it looks like most of them will), we'll have something like 40-50% of Britain's linear length, even though they have 14 times our population - now that's some food for thought!!! :cool:

Let's take a bit more interest and pride in this country and FFS, stop knocking it. Of course it's far from perfect, but what country isn't??? :mad:

By my name, let's be Irish and Proud!!!

Regards!

PS - I better get the camera out myself!

BluntGuy · 24-10-2008 5:54pm

Well I've tried my best to inform as much as possible.

Myself and Furet have created Wikipedia pages for the M6, M8 and M9 and tidied up the M1 and M7 pages. And I try and keep the other road pages up-to-date.

But I don't have the time to drive up and down the country just to take pictures of roads and find out how fast they're progressing. And I shouldn't have to drive to a road to find out how it's progressing.

There is no proper website for M7/M8 upgrade despite the fact it's possibly the most critical upgrade on both of the M7 and M8. There is no website for Cullahill to Cashel. None of the online road maps/direction-finders have included the recent motorway redesignations. The M9 website is uninformative. The Cork Roads website still claims that "It is proposed to construct a new national primary route to motorway standards, separate from the existing N8, between Watergrasshill and Moorepark in County Cork" - i.e the M8 Fermoy Bypass which opened 2 years ago. The M50 upgrade website is awful, and is actually LESS informative than it was when it was launched.

Basically it's a disgrace.

I think there needs to be a single cohesive site outlining each major road scheme, with photographs, updates and at least monthly progress reports. (not the NRA's website which just lists all schemes but doesn't give updates etc.)

The collection of poor, uninformative sites we have at the moment is ridiculous...

BluntGuy · 24-10-2008 6:46pm

Anyway, if you're looking for info about the M6/M7/M8/M9, you'll find pretty much everything you're going to get on these pages:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M6_motorway_(Ireland)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M7_motorway_(Ireland)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M8_motorway_(Ireland)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M9_motorway_(Ireland)

Amtmann · 24-10-2008 7:35pm

I agree that there should be an official site. Of course, the unofficial site is here on boards.ie -- where you can get plenty of photos of many schemes and updates as they happen. Indeed, if you google M8 construction/update, this thread shows up first.

RE the M7/M8 PPP Scheme, I have directed my ire at both the NRA and Laois Co Co. To be fair I did get a reply that was cc'ed to numerous offices, and the contractor has been told to remedy the situation. A new newsletter is to be released imminently too.

Irish and Proud · 24-10-2008 10:24pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

Well I've tried my best to inform as much as possible.

Myself and Furet have created Wikipedia pages for the M6, M8 and M9 and tidied up the M1 and M7 pages. And I try and keep the other road pages up-to-date.

But I don't have the time to drive up and down the country just to take pictures of roads and find out how fast they're progressing. And I shouldn't have to drive to a road to find out how it's progressing.

Your wiki pages are great I must say - have viewed them a few times myself. Again, Furet, keep up the good work - nice pics mate!

What is a disgrace is the official side of things. For example, did you see all the great arial shots of the N4/M50 and N7/M50 interchanges on m50.ie??? :rolleyes:...

...and did you see how regularly websites such as limericktunnel.com and n7nenaghtolimerick.com are updated - oh, and the fantastic THRDO site which is right up to the minute!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

BluntGuy wrote: »

There is no proper website for M7/M8 upgrade despite the fact it's possibly the most critical upgrade on both of the M7 and M8. There is no website for Cullahill to Cashel. None of the online road maps/direction-finders have included the recent motorway redesignations. The M9 website is uninformative. The Cork Roads website still claims that "It is proposed to construct a new national primary route to motorway standards, separate from the existing N8, between Watergrasshill and Moorepark in County Cork" - i.e the M8 Fermoy Bypass which opened 2 years ago. The M50 upgrade website is awful, and is actually LESS informative than it was when it was launched.

Basically it's a disgrace.

I couldn't agree more mate!!! :mad::mad::mad:

BluntGuy wrote: »

I think there needs to be a single cohesive site outlining each major road scheme, with photographs, updates and at least monthly progress reports. (not the NRA's website which just lists all schemes but doesn't give updates etc.)

...and shouldn't cost the earth to implement since IT resources would be shared!

BluntGuy wrote: »

The collection of poor, uninformative sites we have at the moment is ridiculous...

Sure with the likes of Furet, Wiki pages and SABRE, why do they even bother - rarely do any of the official sites tell me anything I didn't know already!!!

Mind you, the M1 Airport to Balbriggan and N2 Finglas to Ashbourne got reasonable web coverage - those were the good old days!!! :pac:

Regards!

BluntGuy · 24-10-2008 10:42pm

M50.ie is embarassing by anyone's standards...

I don't know what's worse, the fact that they have hardly any information or the fact that the few meagre scraps of information they do have are so poorly presented.

As for Direct Route's N7 site, it started off quite well, but they've given up on it. The New Ross bypass site... like the project itself, is in complete limbo.

as for m50concession.ie - it was under construction for about two years and now it's God knows where...

But the M8/M7 Cullahill-Portlaoise-Castletown is what really annoys me. It's difficult to guage progress on that scheme and with no feedback from the construction company/local authority, we're having to guess how that's going.

At least with the Cashel-Mitchelstown section, locals were kept informed with a regular newsletter (same with the N25 Waterford bypass).

The AA, not wanting to be left out of this, have forgotten to update their (otherwise great) route planner with the 125 km of new motorway redesignations that occured last month. Utterly unacceptable for such a large change in the road network. It renders their 'avoid motorways' option completely invalid with such a large inaccuracy. I've e-mailed them about this so hopefully they'll sort it out soon.

But it's not just them, the other route-planners do that too. Some don't even have the Fermoy bypass on them which is ridiculous.

Chris_533976 · 24-10-2008 10:46pm

The only online maps that have the motorways is Openstreetmap. And thats because some very sad people stayed up on reclassification night to change colours

BluntGuy · 24-10-2008 10:54pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

The only online maps that have the motorways is Openstreetmap. And thats because some very sad people stayed up on reclassification night to change colours

How nice of them!

I once tried using OpenStreetMap and it went... badly. Never again anyway... I'll leave it to the people who actually know what they're doing!;)

However, if any of you know how to use OpenStreetMap you may want to check M8 junction 11. I've just checked it now and according to that the motorway slip roads dump you into the middle of a field. :cool:

larryone · 25-10-2008 1:01pm

They're starting to finish off the exit at cullahill. Most of the earth between the existing road and the new roundabout has been removed...
What bothers me is that I always get cheap fuel in Urlingford or Johnstown (paid 111.8 per litre for diesel yesterday!) and the new motorway will make it unreasonable for me to keep going into Urlingford or Johnstown for fuel. That and if those filling stations lose the amount of traffic passing through them their prices probably wont be able to remain as low. I just hope another station will latch on to the idea and offer cheaper fuel. The places in Cullahill, Durrow, etc. never have it as low as the next towns down the road. =0(

clon · 25-10-2008 3:22pm

Furet there is now a new newsletter for M7/M8 road project on crg.ie website.

http://www.crg.ie/M7M8_Newsletter.pdf

Amtmann · 25-10-2008 4:34pm

Thanks for that Clon. I note that that issue is for July 08, which means another one is now due for November.

But I have to say, that was the worst newsletter I've seen yet. What 'news', exactly, did it give us? None. If I want to know what cutting and filling is, or how bridges are built, I can turn to google. No, this CRG newsletter is pathetic. Compare it to the M4 newsletters, the M8 Fermoy to Watergrasshill Newsletters or to the current M3 newsletters.

CRG has told us nothing about how they're doing, nor about what their autumn/winter plans are.

BluntGuy · 25-10-2008 5:22pm

I totally agree with Furet. One of the most pathetic newsletters I've ever seen. It had virtually no information about the current status of the project, rather it simply gave a bland table of diversions and then proceeded to waffle on about how roads are constructed.

Where does it tell you what stage the scheme is at? Where does it tell you what works are planned for the coming months? Why is there no specific information in it?

Many of the bridges are well advanced

- are they? Which ones?

We have put an environmental monitoring regime in place to monitor how the construction of the new Motorway is affecting our local environment.

- that's great. Where's the evidence of this? What and where are the findings? How do I find out more?

It may sound like I'm being nitpicky, but compared to the N25 Bypass newsletter, this is a disgrace. That, combined with the fact there is no update website for the project also makes this incredibly unacceptable.

I hope their November newsletter is a big improvement on this, because this was dissappointingly uninformative.

mackerski · 25-10-2008 11:36pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

How nice of them!

Oi! I did the redesignation. Be nice.

BluntGuy wrote: »

I once tried using OpenStreetMap and it went... badly. Never again anyway... I'll leave it to the people who actually know what they're doing!;)

This is cryptic - and IMHO unreasonably negative comment on a great project. To "use" OpenStreetMap involves pretty much the same skillset as to use Google Maps. What went wrong for you?

BluntGuy wrote: »

However, if any of you know how to use OpenStreetMap you may want to check M8 junction 11. I've just checked it now and according to that the motorway slip roads dump you into the middle of a field. :cool:

In case anybody is unaware of how roads get onto OSM, it's by people like us surveying them and putting them there. So M8 J11 has exit stubs, and some day some civic-minded person will survey the surface roads those ramps connect to. I happen to know the person who probably surveyed the ramps, and he would have done so by photographing the exits as he was driven by them. Map coverage has to start somewhere. Have a look at Dublin, Drogheda, Wesport, Clonmel (or anywhere in NL or Germany, come to that) to see the level of coverage OSM will attain.

BTW, the key to filling in the gaps is, as I said, community contribution of data. The ideal contributor of data is the sort of person prepared to drive along roads out of sheer interest (recognise yourself, anybody?). Even if you can't or won't map yourself, if you have a GPS device capable of logging, contribute your tracks and plenty of eager volunteers will put those roads on the map.

So let's have less of the "no online maps have the redesignated roads on". OSM is the only map of any sort I'm aware of with all of the new built roads and up-to-date redesignations on. We know it's not complete, but it will be, and you can all help.

Edit: As of a few hours ago, OSM is also the only online map with the days-old ramp from M50N-R110 citybound.

BluntGuy · 25-10-2008 11:53pm

mackerski wrote: »

Oi! I did the redesignation. Be nice.

It was genuinely nice of you to do that. Sorry about the sarcasm.

If only the people paid to maintain the AA website were as nice as you.

mackerski wrote: »

This is cryptic - and IMHO unreasonably negative comment on a great project. To "use" OpenStreetMap involves pretty much the same skillset as to use Google Maps. What went wrong for you?

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great project too... I'm just cruddy at using it!

mackerski wrote: »

In case anybody is unaware of how roads get onto OSM, it's by people like us surveying them and putting them there. So M8 J11 has exit stubs, and some day some civic-minded person will survey the surface roads those ramps connect to. I happen to know the person who probably surveyed the ramps, and he would have done so by photographing the exits as he was driven by them. Map coverage has to start somewhere. Have a look at Dublin, Drogheda, Wesport, Clonmel (or anywhere in NL or Germany, come to that) to see the level of coverage OSM will attain.

BTW, the key to filling in the gaps is, as I said, community contribution of data. The ideal contributor of data is the sort of person prepared to drive along roads out of sheer interest (recognise yourself, anybody?). Even if you can't or won't map yourself, if you have a GPS device capable of logging, contribute your tracks and plenty of eager volunteers will put those roads on the map.

So let's have less of the "no online maps have the redesignated roads on". OSM is the only map of any sort I'm aware of with all of the new built roads and up-to-date redesignations on. We know it's not complete, but it will be, and you can all help.

Edit: As of a few hours ago, OSM is also the only online map with the days-old ramp from M50N-R110 citybound.

I would, but I don't have a GPS... and I can't use OpenStreetMap. I update the Wikipedia pages and try to post new information here whenever I can...

mackerski · 26-10-2008 12:01am

BluntGuy wrote: »

I would, but I don't have a GPS... and I can't use OpenStreetMap. I update the Wikipedia pages and try to post new information here whenever I can...

OK folks, here's my challenge for you all: Go to http://www.openstreetmap.org/ and pretend it's Google Maps. Now try to pan around and zoom in on stuff as you might with any other mapping site.

If you, like BluntGuy, find there's some important part of the experience that won't work for you, let me know, because the project will want to address whatever deficiency that is.

And those of you who do have GPS devices, please switch them on as you drive places - especially on roads not already on OpenStreetMaps. For reference, apart from a section of the N56 in Donegal, all national roads are on the map and up-to-date. I'll gratefully accept any resulting traces.

BluntGuy · 26-10-2008 12:09am

The panning and zooming is easy...

It's the editing I find difficult...

It don't want to edit anything because I fear I'll mess up the good work of others. I know there's a sandbox mode, but still...

mackerski · 26-10-2008 12:25am

BluntGuy wrote: »

The panning and zooming is easy...

It's the editing I find difficult...

It don't want to edit anything because I fear I'll mess up the good work of others. I know there's a sandbox mode, but still...

Ah, well that's fair. By definition, editing is a bit harder, so there's some investment of time involved if you want to be happy you won't break stuff. Many people will (as I do) prefer the JOSM editor, which doesn't upload any changes until you decide it's safe to do so. It's also somewhat more powerful.

Amtmann · 26-10-2008 12:37am

Quick question about Open Street Map: I've heard it said that you can see photographs of the roads on it. I can't. All I can see is a google maps style layout, albeit far more detailed. Am I doing something wrong?

mackerski · 26-10-2008 2:52am

Furet wrote: »

Quick question about Open Street Map: I've heard it said that you can see photographs of the roads on it. I can't. All I can see is a google maps style layout, albeit far more detailed. Am I doing something wrong?

No, you're not missing anything in the main display. You may be mixing up your info, though. Many of us, as a mapping aid, take photographs of the places we map. So we might shoot a road sign to record street name or road number, a junction to help us lay it out later, a post box or other point of interest so we remember it was there. We then geocode those photographs against the GPS trace we've collected.

What we then do is to load the images into the map editor, so we can see where on our traces the images were, as this allows for very quick entry of the information in the pics. The photos don't become part of the permanent map, rather they help us create it. For that reason, there's nothing in the slippy map that will allow you to see such photos.

However, many of us do upload those shots elsewhere, either as a service to other mappers who may extract extra info or as proof of a primary source for our mapping. As an example, see this Flickr set of my images from some mapping in and around Armagh. Notice how each image will offer a "Map" link to allow you to see where it was taken. So far not with an OSM map underneath, but Flickr already use OSM data for Beijing, where Yahoo's coverage wasn't so great.

Amtmann · 26-10-2008 6:47pm

Cashel to Cullahill: Blue motorway signage is being erected along the route. Still some landscaping work to be done, and some surfacing between J 6 and 5.

I've got to say, I am worried that the contractors will leave us with an under-landscaped finished product.

This will open without a doubt a few weeks before Christmas.

Mitchelstown to Fermoy: The penultimate layer of asphalt is being applied between Junctions 13 and 14.

Amtmann · 29-10-2008 2:09pm

The 40km Cashel to Cullahill stretch will open to traffic on Monday, 8 December, according to the RoadbridgeSisk offices.

That's 87 km of motorway from just south of Cullahill to just north of Mitchelstown open this December.

ipodrocker · 29-10-2008 3:23pm

thats great news and i hear the fermoy sections is going on really fast and we should have it open mid 2009?

BluntGuy · 29-10-2008 3:33pm

ipodrocker wrote: »

thats great news and i hear the fermoy sections is going on really fast and we should have it open mid 2009?

Yes... judging from the progress I've seen, my estimate is August next year.

M8 motorway (general thread)

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