Questions about buying a new BMW 5 Series F10/F11

ScorpionRS · 02-05-2012 12:52am #1

Hi all, I am thinking of buying a new 5 series and have a few questions that I cant seem to find answers for.. would really appreciate any help

Automatic vs Manual when it comes to resale value for a 5 series
How much bargaining space is available with a dealer ( how much commission do they give and where and how can I get deals ) I want to get the most of my money and I want to haggle for the price or get some added bonus for the money I spend.. I wonder if anyone has some experience with this.
Best options to go for to increase the resale value

I am buying it new from a BMW dealer. I am getting the 520D SE with

Sports auto/Manual
Space grey colour
Xenon light
Ambient lighting
USB and iphone connection
Black lighting full
sports steering wheel
Sports seats in front
anthracite head lining

The other option is to go for the 520D efficient dynamics with the same options in Manual

Aim is to use the car for 4 years and sell it before the model gets replaces. Aim to do about 40,000 KM in mixed roads over the 4 years.

Thanks again.

Sorry if I have made any mistake with this thread. I did read the instructions and advice and I think this is ok.

Eric Cartman · 02-05-2012 1:01am

considering its not really a performance model (535 / m5) the auto will be better for resale.

msport pack and idrive would be desireable on resale and nicer to drive but I dont know if thats in your budget

Leonard Hofstadter · 02-05-2012 1:09am

Auto without question from a resale point of view. If you're going manual then the Efficient Dynamics without question, since it's cheaper to buy as well as to tax. The vast majority of people looking for these kind of cars want an auto.

Would you not consider the 525d or the 530d - they're all in the same tax band (€225 per annum) if you go for an automatic in SE trim? The 530d in particular has the benefit of six cylinders, and six cylinders is better than four:).

A lot of road testers are of the opinion that you should not order that car without the Variable Damper Control option - VDC makes it ride and in particular handle more like a car from the self proclaimed makers of 'the Ultimate Driving Machine' are to be believed! Try one with and without it is probably the best advice really.

520ds are still in high demand, so I wouldn't be so sure about getting too much of a discount. Since less people are interested in the higher powered models, there should be more leeway.

The M Sport pack would be desirable from a resale point of view too, although since it does raise the emissions, it may pushes the car into a higher VRT band depending on engine (which dramatically bumps up the price). Certainly with the more powerful models, I would see the M Sport as a pre-requisite for resale value - on a 520d it probably doesn't matter since a lot of people buy them simply becuase it's a BMW. An enthusiast will be more interested in the more powerful models, and by definition likes driving, so will want the M Sport pack as it sharpens up the handling and it also looks a lot better too.

dahamsta · 02-05-2012 1:11am

As a used BMW buyer, I skip past the SEs like they're Micras; Sports is all I'm interested in. I could be considered particular though, if not outright peculiar.

veetwin · 02-05-2012 8:38am

1. Definitely auto.
2. Straight deal or trade in? If you sell your trade in privately you will invariably do better. There was a thread here recently about a (US) guy who would ring every dealer and say he will buy a car today and looked for the best price including all the options. This might work in your case and you could ring every dealer in the country. Whether you will get the best price over the phone is debatable though. I would call in person to a number of them and give them the same ultimatum.
3. Best option for resale value is the auto transmission. Most of the other options will add no value to a four year old car.

02-05-2012 8:46am

Automatic vs Manual when it comes to resale value for a 5 series

<--Auto, very few manuals are actually sold in the 5 i.e. the demand is not there for manual, will be the same when you resell

[*]How much bargaining space is available with a dealer ( how much commission do they give and where and how can I get deals ) I want to get the most of my money and I want to haggle for the price or get some added bonus for the money I spend.. I wonder if anyone has some experience with this.

<-- Dealers have about 8%, part of this is a kick back from BMW on car volumes sold, so its not all available upfront, €2,000 to €2,500 should be easy, more your doing well, if your a return customer to BMW you will get more, maybe in 4 years time..

[*]Best options to go for to increase the resale value

Sports auto/Manual <-Nice
Space grey colour <-Nice, with black interior I assume
Xenon light <- Save your money and get the Prof Nav
Ambient lighting
USB and iphone connection
Black lighting full
sports steering wheel <-Nice, standard wheel is too big IMO
Sports seats in front <-Nice
anthracite head lining <-Nice, most don't appreciate this feature, so its overlooked, even better in a light coloured interior

Every 5 in a few years time will be a 520d, so there will be a lot coming on the market

Padraig Mor · 02-05-2012 9:11am

1. Definitely auto.
2. Not sure on this, but I'd say 5% would be doing well on a straight sale.
3. The USB would be the only 'must' in your list. Professional nav would really help it sell in a few years, but you'll only get back a fraction of the c. €3k cost. The VDC thing is a crock of **** invented by What Car magazine - who never mentioned anything about it in the previous E60 generation, which presumably had the same, or very similar, suspension.

Blazer · 02-05-2012 9:27am

Honestly you're not doing enough mileage for a diesel.
If I'm reading that correctly you're talking about 40,000 km over the 4 years which is 10,000km a year.
You're going to see serious problems with your engine over those 4 years with that extremely low mileage.
There's way more knowledgeable people on here who can explain better than I can but you'll be looking at problems with your DPF/turbo etc with that mileage.

As for auto/manual...auto all the way..
As for colour...hmm...my one is space grey but honestly I wished I went for the black...it looks miles better and would be easier to sell.
My last car was black which was why I plumped for a different colour but I was regretting it after a week.

Theboinkmaster · 02-05-2012 10:10am

i think msport is a must and also the prof sat nav option, as i think the dash looks crap with just the standard screen, looks way too small.

bazz26 · 02-05-2012 10:12am

[QUOTE=1916;Every 5 in a few years time will be a 520d, so there will be a lot coming on the market[/QUOTE]

The tax system is being changed in December's budget where they are aiming to screw the 520d owner who currently pays €160/225 in annual motor tax. A 520d might not be as appealing from a tax perspective as it at the moment.

Cyrus · 02-05-2012 10:12am

surely a lot of the options you are choosing are standard in m sport spec anyway?

mailforkev · 02-05-2012 10:40am

Why not buy what you want and don't worry so much about the resale.

Why spend 50k and end up driving something that's not exactly what you want for 4 years just so someone else can buy it from you for a fraction of the price when you sell it?

Obviously you should get the auto though.

02-05-2012 11:07am

Every 5 in a few years time will be a 520d, so there will be a lot coming on the market

I should have said.. every 2nd hand 5 on the market in a few years will be a 520d

Leonard Hofstadter · 02-05-2012 11:12am

Padraig Mor wrote: »

The VDC thing is a crock of **** invented by What Car magazine - who never mentioned anything about it in the previous E60 generation, which presumably had the same, or very similar, suspension.

To be fair, it's not just What Car? that have said this - pretty much every other car mag has said that the F10 is nowhere near as good to drive as the E60 or any of the previous generation 5 series - even with the fancy driving options, which if What Car? are to be believed transform the way it drives.

You're wrong on the suspension, as the suspension on the new car is totall different to its predecessor. The last model 5 series used aluminimum suspension - this is gone back to steel because aluminimum is too expensive even though this is supposed to be a 'premium' car. Also the front suspension is double wishbones for the first time. And the steering is electric as opposed to hydraulic.

L-M · 02-05-2012 11:16am

1916 wrote: »

<--Auto, very few manuals are actually sold in the 5 i.e. the demand is not there for manual, will be the same when you resell

From 05 on there are 400 manuals for sale on carzone towards almost 600 autos. That's not " very few" manuals in my book.

MuppetCheck · 02-05-2012 11:21am

Isn't VDC standard now?

Leonard Hofstadter · 02-05-2012 11:33am

Limerick man wrote: »

From 05 on there are 400 manuals for sale on carzone towards almost 600 autos. That's not " very few" manuals in my book.

Of the 168 2011 reg cars on sale on Carzone, only 36 are manuals. Of the 150 2012 cars for sale, only 29 are manual.

So in that respect 1916 is dead right - auto is the clear favourite with F10 buyers and the increasing trend is for automatics.

Personally I'd prefer a manual but I'd also want it with a six cylinder petrol:)!

TheDriver · 02-05-2012 11:46am

bazz26 wrote: »

The tax system is being changed in December's budget where they are aiming to screw the 520d owner who currently pays €160/225 in annual motor tax. A 520d might not be as appealing from a tax perspective as it at the moment.

I have been looking for more on this, any links?

02-05-2012 11:49am

On the Manual v Auto sale mix, back in 2008 when I asked one of the Dublin dealerships' how many Auto 5's did they sell that year, 1 Manual v 50 Auto. I was surprised, but maybe its a Dublin thing, or maybe its not representative. I'd be looking for the Auto box if I was looking for a 2nd hand 5

MuppetCheck · 02-05-2012 12:03pm

The figures are being offset by UK imports brought in cheaper as manuals are less favourable over there.

dahamsta · 02-05-2012 3:47pm

I don't get don't anyone would want a 2l auto, it's just a nonsense to me. The wife's e39 is anaemic enough as it is, I can only imagine what it'd be like with an auto sapping more power. Barges I can understand, but not a low end 5. Give me a manual any day.

EDIT: I'd find it very hard to base such a fundamental part of the driving experience on resale value too, but that said I don't think I'll ever be the type to buy new. I have to wonder if there are any Drivers out there anymore though, or is it just all Motorists.

Cyrus · 02-05-2012 3:56pm

dahamsta wrote: »

I don't get don't anyone would want a 2l auto, it's just a nonsense to me. The wife's e39 is anaemic enough as it is, I can only imagine what it'd be like with an auto sapping more power. Barges I can understand, but not a low end 5. Give me a manual any day.

EDIT: I'd find it very hard to base such a fundamental part of the driving experience on resale value too, but that said I don't think I'll ever be the type to buy new. I have to wonder if there are any Drivers out there anymore though, or is it just all Motorists.

agree with this

my old man has an auto e60 520d and its a soul destroying thing to drive

Leonard Hofstadter · 02-05-2012 4:26pm

dahamsta wrote: »

I don't get don't anyone would want a 2l auto, it's just a nonsense to me. The wife's e39 is anaemic enough as it is, I can only imagine what it'd be like with an auto sapping more power. Barges I can understand, but not a low end 5. Give me a manual any day.

EDIT: I'd find it very hard to base such a fundamental part of the driving experience on resale value too, but that said I don't think I'll ever be the type to buy new. I have to wonder if there are any Drivers out there anymore though, or is it just all Motorists.

To be fair, a 520d has 184 bhp these days, so it's hardly slow.

A driver would be having a six cylinder model anyway, and they're definitely saleproof without the automatic:)! It's a pity for real enthusiasts that you can't buy a petrol any more (well technicially you can of course, but you'd want to be prepared to lose a hell of a lot of money).

Then again when I was younger a petrol BMW 5 series was something to aspire to, not least because of that sweet sounding six cylinder engine, now you can't have a six pot unless you go for a 530i - the lower models only have four cylinders nowadays and I don't care how technically brilliant they are, four is not the same as six:(!

Eoin · 02-05-2012 4:41pm

Do you genuinely not care if it's manual or auto? Pick the transmission that suits you. 4 years is a long time to drive a car with the next owner in mind.

eth0 · 02-05-2012 4:57pm

Eoin wrote: »

Do you genuinely not care if it's manual or auto? Pick the transmission that suits you. 4 years is a long time to drive a car with the next owner in mind.

+1

Don't buy a car thinking how you're going to get rid of it

Max Power1 · 02-05-2012 5:43pm

eth0 wrote: »

+1

Don't buy a car thinking how you're going to get rid of it

+1
You will lose a shedload buying new anyway!

02-05-2012 7:08pm

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Isn't VDC standard now?

With the Sport Auto box there is a thing called Drive Performance Control where you can select Normal/Sport mode, but VDC is a further option

Leonard Hofstadter · 02-05-2012 7:35pm

1916 wrote: »

With the Sport Auto box there is a thing called Drive Performance Control where you can select Normal/Sport mode, but VDC is a further option

All models have Drive Performance Control now, but like you say, VDC is still an option. The larger engined models are available with adaptive drive instead.

Tea 1000 · 02-05-2012 8:51pm

dahamsta wrote: »

I don't get don't anyone would want a 2l auto, it's just a nonsense to me. The wife's e39 is anaemic enough as it is, I can only imagine what it'd be like with an auto sapping more power. Barges I can understand, but not a low end 5. Give me a manual any day.

EDIT: I'd find it very hard to base such a fundamental part of the driving experience on resale value too, but that said I don't think I'll ever be the type to buy new. I have to wonder if there are any Drivers out there anymore though, or is it just all Motorists.

Diesels should all be auto. No such thing as a sweet manual box with a diesel. And besides, the auto is invariably quicker in the modern boxes like VW and BMW.

dahamsta · 03-05-2012 12:00am

I've just sold my 9 year old manual 2l diesel Astravan, it was an absolute hoot to drive. If it was auto, I probably wouldn't be here today, having slit my wrists in sheer boredom. If the wife's car was auto I'd probably be living under a bridge, in a cardboard box, divorced and alone. But with a manual, cos I couldn't afford the barge.

For the record though, I don't have a problem with autos in general. My barge is an auto, it adds to the delight of the motorway cruise. It's not as much fun on the back roads as it should be though, so I can't see how a 2l auto could be any fun at all, despite their increased power and efficiency. Driving an auto on those roads isn't really driving, it's steering.

But again, each to their own. We all have different interests. Some are drivers, others are motorists.

Voodoomelon · 03-05-2012 12:08am

Just a note on the colour, obviously its a matter of personal opinion, but a chap I know has a space grey F10 and its shocking boring looking, fades away into the murky horizon.

Something with a bit more colour improves the F10 no end, and resale value in my view.

Tea 1000 · 03-05-2012 12:21am

dahamsta wrote: »

I've just sold my 9 year old manual 2l diesel Astravan, it was an absolute hoot to drive. If it was auto, I probably wouldn't be here today, having slit my wrists in sheer boredom. If the wife's car was auto I'd probably be living under a bridge, in a cardboard box, divorced and alone. But with a manual, cos I couldn't afford the barge.

For the record though, I don't have a problem with autos in general. My barge is an auto, it adds to the delight of the motorway cruise. It's not as much fun on the back roads as it should be though, so I can't see how a 2l auto could be any fun at all, despite their increased power and efficiency. Driving an auto on those roads isn't really driving, it's steering.

But again, each to their own. We all have different interests. Some are drivers, others are motorists.

I'm a driver. I realise that an Astra diesel is a snore mobile no matter what box it has!

The only properly fun diesel would be a 335Cd, but that's only auto. All others are boring and should be auto! Just because you change gear yourself, doesn't mean it's fun.

dahamsta · 03-05-2012 7:49am

In the past 5 years I've owned an e34 525i, the aforementioned Astravan, a 740i and a 2.2l 520i and 1.9 TDi Passat via the wife. All manual bar the barge. The diesels were by far the most fun to drive on country roads*, and the manual boxes had a huge part to play in that. "Play" being the operative word in that sentence.

The 7 is the best motorway cruiser by a long chalk, it just eats up the miles, and if that's all the driving I ever did I'm not sure I'd ever buy outside that category again; but jesus life would be boring. I didn't move to the country solely for the smell of cowsh1t.

* The BMWs are/were fun, but the diesels were a hoot.

Tea 1000 · 03-05-2012 11:21am

dahamsta wrote: »

In the past 5 years I've owned an e34 525i, the aforementioned Astravan, a 740i and a 2.2l 520i and 1.9 TDi Passat via the wife. All manual bar the barge. The diesels were by far the most fun to drive on country roads*, and the manual boxes had a huge part to play in that. "Play" being the operative word in that sentence.

The 7 is the best motorway cruiser by a long chalk, it just eats up the miles, and if that's all the driving I ever did I'm not sure I'd ever buy outside that category again; but jesus life would be boring. I didn't move to the country solely for the smell of cowsh1t.

* The BMWs are/were fun, but the diesels were a hoot.

Diesels are never fun to push on in. Always nose heavy, low revs, narrow power band, sound crap, slow throttle response, heavy and clunky gearbox and heavy flywheel all leads to dull!
A good manual petrol with a nice engine and gearbox and decent chassis is where it's at on country roads. An Astra van in fairness has none of those things. Your E34 would be the one I'd pick from your list, but if you had that engine in an E36 it'd be better again.

OldGuysRule · 03-05-2012 11:24am

We have a manual 520d SE in the house the past year or so (with a Disco auto), like it an generally use it if in a hurry! Have not driven and auto 5 so cannot comment but do like the Disco auto and would not buy a big 4x4 in manual.

As for options we have,
Xenon pack is worth it,
Comfort lighting is a nice touch,
We have a black car with the factory tint on the rear windows which is nice,
18 s are probably a little too hard on the roads we use,
USB and iphone connection is worth it (although my old iphone just sits in there permanently as music storage since moving to winphone)
Factory SatNav is good but still too pricy
Dark headlining is a nice touch

Still amazed by the fuel effeciency of the thing and only hindsight regret is not getting the estate.

dahamsta · 03-05-2012 11:59am

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Diesels are never fun to push on in. Always nose heavy, low revs, narrow power band, sound crap, slow throttle response, heavy and clunky gearbox and heavy flywheel all leads to dull!
A good manual petrol with a nice engine and gearbox and decent chassis is where it's at on country roads. An Astra van in fairness has none of those things. Your E34 would be the one I'd pick from your list, but if you had that engine in an E36 it'd be better again.

Sorry, did you drive all of my cars while I wasn't looking? It sounds like you know more about them than I do. :rolleyes:

I presume you think your opinion is more important than mine, but I'm afraid to me, it isn't. I loved driving my manual diesels. So did my wife. I think we're more qualified to comment, given they were our cars.

Tea 1000 · 03-05-2012 12:42pm

dahamsta wrote: »

Sorry, did you drive all of my cars while I wasn't looking? It sounds like you know more about them than I do. :rolleyes:

I presume you think your opinion is more important than mine, but I'm afraid to me, it isn't. I loved driving my manual diesels. So did my wife. I think we're more qualified to comment, given they were our cars.

Oh, my apologies... I didn't realise that your E34 and Astra van were special and different to all others, and I should have driven yours rather than the other lesser models that Opel and BMW produced.
Any real driving nut will agree with me that diesel sucks for proper enjoyment. You're qualified to prefer them, but that doesn't make it right! I could say that I much prefer driving a 1.9 TDi Golf to a Caterham because it's great for the low down shove out of a corner, but that would be an opinion. It doesn't change the fact that a Caterham is a better handling car.

dahamsta · 03-05-2012 1:14pm

I apologise sincerely, I didn't realise I was talking to Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savour, whose opinion is Gospel.

Do you need a hand down off that horse?

Tea 1000 · 03-05-2012 1:52pm

dahamsta wrote: »

Do you need a hand down off that horse?

Yes please, and could you open the door of my fantastic Opel Astra van too please? It's manual don't you know!

I think you need to relax a little!
We should go back to recommending the F10 to the OP, although he probably has long since made his mind up, rendering this thread useless as well as off topic!

veetwin · 03-05-2012 3:12pm

dahamsta wrote: »

I don't get don't anyone would want a 2l auto, it's just a nonsense to me.

Just as a matter of interest have you driven the the F10 in 2L auto?

Also if you think a diesel astra is a hoot to drive you need to get out more.

Back on topic I at present have a manual and auto E60 520D outside my door for the past month. I'm minding the manual for a mate who is away and told me to use it as much as I want. I've driven it twice to keep the battery up and drive my own auto daily. Maybe if I was in serious hurry on a country road the manual might be more fun but the auto is nicer (and faster) in the real world.

dahamsta · 03-05-2012 5:24pm

veetwin wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest have you driven the the F10 in 2L auto?

I have never and will never drive a 2l auto, particularly a 2l diesel. Which part of "nonsense" did you have trouble understanding?

veetwin · 03-05-2012 5:30pm

dahamsta wrote: »

I have never and will never drive a 2l auto, particularly a 2l diesel. Which part of "nonsense" did you have trouble understanding?

Jeez mate, you might want to open your mind just a tiny fraction! While a 184bhp BMW will never reach the lofty heights of a diesel van for driving pleasure it's still not a bad motor;)

BrianCohen · 03-05-2012 5:33pm

dahamsta wrote: »

I have never and will never drive a 2l auto, particularly a 2l diesel. Which part of "nonsense" did you have trouble understanding?

It's a bit harsh tarring all 2l diesel autos as nonsense if you haven't driven one to me. I've driven an F10 520d auto for about 10 minutes and loved it, but not enough to make a fully informed opinion on it or all 2l diesel autos.

To the OP, test both auto and manual. If you can afford to buy new you can probably afford a slightly bigger hit come resale of a manual if it's what you choose. Best of luck with it

blingrhino · 03-05-2012 6:49pm

f10 520d auto has a seemless 8 speed box which means driving in the real world fantastic-is a manual really any quicker? maybe if your driving the nuts off it u could tell , but day to day driving auto is the only way to go.
fantastic torque lift if you drive it sprightly.
as for colour there is black and carbon black ( which is actually dark blue) both nice, and yes other poster is right the 9" screen is great and you can split the sat navs into two screens. avg 45 mpg driven hard and easy or 1000km per tank.

Seth Brundle · 03-05-2012 10:30pm

veetwin wrote: »

...Back on topic...

and lets stay there!

dahamsta · 04-05-2012 2:09pm

veetwin wrote: »

dahamsta wrote: »

I have never and will never drive a 2l auto, particularly a 2l diesel. Which part of "nonsense" did you have trouble understanding?

Jeez mate, you might want to open your mind just a tiny fraction! While a 184bhp BMW will never reach the lofty heights of a diesel van for driving pleasure it's still not a bad motor;)

Again, it's not the engine in particular I have a problem with, it's 2l + auto box, especially a diesel. If I have to drive something with a small engine, it'll be a manual.

Anyway, that's enough OT nonsense, I'm sure the OP has probably bought and sold their choice already.

ScorpionRS · 15-05-2012 9:55pm

wow! Loads of useful comments here.. Thanks so much.

I drive a manual and saw the interior and decided on the Sports Auto.Keeping on Sport mode - it feels great!

I wont go for the M sport option as it adds a lot to the price.

Every one is right about the " don't think about selling it before buying it" I realised that a few days ago and will go with what I like and not care about selling it till it comes to that time.

The specification Ive gone for so far -

BMW 520D Space grey
Visibility Package ( adds adaptive + high beam)
Sports Automatic
Sports Seats
Headlining Anthracite
Black panel display full
Ambient lighting

I have don't know what Navigation system to go for, would love the larger screen but I cant justify the cost

Thanks again for the great info

kooga · 24-08-2013 3:20pm

went down to the quays today in cork to see the start of the cannonball run, quite a few new model m5s on display and having spoke to a few of the drivers who said that the m5 does not have runflats but regular tyres with a mobility kit.......so what does that tell us ?

Last april i had to shell out for three 19" runflats on my touring and that was an ouch.............anyway in addition to the m5s was a new 520d m sport (support car main bmw dealer stickers etc) on 20" alloys shod with nankang ultra sports ns20 245/30/ 20 at €138 a corner on eire tyres..............thems for me the next time with a mobility kit!

Any thoughts

bazz26 · 24-08-2013 3:31pm

I wouldn't have any faith in 20" tyres costing under €140. Seems a bit daft to me spending that much on a car and big rims but then putting cheap tyres on it.

BoardsMember · 02-10-2013 3:03pm

Blazer wrote: »

Honestly you're not doing enough mileage for a diesel.
If I'm reading that correctly you're talking about 40,000 km over the 4 years which is 10,000km a year.
You're going to see serious problems with your engine over those 4 years with that extremely low mileage.
There's way more knowledgeable people on here who can explain better than I can but you'll be looking at problems with your DPF/turbo etc with that mileage.

Is this categorical. Kind of have an idea that next car will be the 2010 520D, and we do low mileage. Was talking to a mechanic and he mentioned adding an additive when filling her up, and you would be ok. I dont have a huge amount of confidence in this particular mechanic....

Questions about buying a new BMW 5 Series F10/F11

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