This is a stupid thread

Mr Alan · 03-09-2008 12:10pm #1

more from Carragher:

Rigobert Song soon learned not to knock Liverpool team mate Jamie Carragher
By Jamie Carragher 3/09/2008

After I established myself at right-back, our African defender Rigobert Song found himself out of the team and our previously healthy relationship instantly deteriorated.

One morning in training he was told I'd been called into the England squad after performing well at full-back.

There was a look of astonishment on Song's face - a bit like the one we used to give him when he claimed he was only 21.

He might as well have blurted out he thought I wasn't good enough for international football.

He strolled off to his French speaking friends and began talking to them. I could see him pointing towards me while everyone was grinning. It was clear what he was saying and the rage inside me simmered.

Later, Song walked on to the training pitch with a smile on his face. He was limping off it with a grimace an hour later. The first chance I got, I did him. Never have I hunted down a 50-50 tackle with greater appetite.

"You're not f***ing laughing now are you, you soft twat?" I said as he hobbled away.

Did I care he had a knock? No way. I don't remember him or anyone else in the squad for that matter trying to take the piss out of my ability again.

not mad on players biogs before they retire, but i am looking forward to this.

controversial move it being ghost written by Chris Bascombe.

_blank_ · 03-09-2008 12:14pm

The first chance I got, I did him.

That sounds suspiciously like a certain corkman, imo.

Mr Alan, thoughts on this?

Mr Alan · 03-09-2008 12:18pm

Des wrote: »

That sounds suspiciously like a certain corkman, imo.

I'm sure the tackle was nothing like that other tackle, evidenced by the fact it was not a career ending one and happened in training.

i'm sure it was just a hard tackle to put him in his place.

zAbbo · 03-09-2008 12:21pm

Certainly looks interesting, It's out 11 September?

missingtime · 03-09-2008 12:25pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

controversial move it being ghost written by Chris Bascombe.

ohhh it is....

Maybe Carra new him from his time at the echo and trusts him more than others

_blank_ · 03-09-2008 12:27pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm sure the tackle was nothing like that other tackle, evidenced by the fact it was not a career ending one and happened in training.

i'm sure it was just a hard tackle to put him in his place.

Rose tinted glass syndrome.

He said he went out to "do" him. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

Here's the Roy quote

I'd waited long enough. I fúcking hit him hard. The ball was there (I think). Take that you cúnt. And don't ever stand over me sneering about fake injuries. Even in the dressing room afterwards, I had no remorse. My attitude was, fúck him. What goes around comes around. He got his just rewards. He fúcked me over and my attitude is an eye for an eye.

Look the same to me.

Carragher has admitted to intentionally going out to injure a team-mate, and seems to be fairly happy that he limped out of training.

How anyone can defend that reprehensible act is beyond me.

It's a pretty scummy action, no?

Handsome Bob · 03-09-2008 12:40pm

Des wrote: »

Rose tinted glass syndrome.

He said he went out to "do" him. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

Here's the Roy quote

Look the same to me.

Carragher has admitted to intentionally going out to injure a team-mate, and seems to be fairly happy that he limped out of training.

How anyone can defend that reprehensible act is beyond me.

It's a pretty scummy action, no?

I don't think anyone can say Carragher was right to do that, he was a young hothead and he made a stupid mistake, and a further mistake in writing about it.

Keane was the Captain of a team and intentionally ended Haaland's career. Not exactly a great example to a team he was suppose to be leading

missingtime · 03-09-2008 12:46pm

I think there are plenty of players that go out to make sure they get the player rather than the ball.

Keane and Carra just come out and say it.

I've done it enough times.

Edit: Not comparing myself to Keane and Carra

ibh · 03-09-2008 12:47pm

Des wrote: »

Rose tinted glass syndrome.

He said he went out to "do" him. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

Here's the Roy quote

Look the same to me.

Carragher has admitted to intentionally going out to injure a team-mate, and seems to be fairly happy that he limped out of training.

How anyone can defend that reprehensible act is beyond me.

It's a pretty scummy action, no?

Over reaction to be fair.
He said he went out and hunted down a 50-50 tackle with him. The scummy thing to do would be to just do him late. Obviously not what happened.

I think any defender woth their salt has waited for the right 50-50 tackle where they can show someone how tough they can be.

A tackle on a teammate in training is unlikely to have much in common with the behaviour of a certain Corkman.

joker77 · 03-09-2008 12:49pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm sure the tackle was nothing like that other tackle, evidenced by the fact it was not a career ending one and happened in training.

i'm sure it was just a hard tackle to put him in his place.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I don't think anyone can say Carragher was right to do that, he was a young hothead and he made a stupid mistake, and a further mistake in writing about it.

Keane was the Captain of a team and intentionally ended Haaland's career. Not exactly a great example to a team he was suppose to be leading

Lads, c'mon now. It's more or less the same thing - both went out of their way to 'do' the opponent.

And for the record - Haaland's career ended because of a problem with his other leg, not the one Keane 'did'.

I'm a big fan of both Carragher and Keane, and while you can't condone that kind of behaviour - I'd have to put my hand up and say I'd probably have acted in the same way on both occasions. That's just honesty, not something I'm proud of.

Edit:

The first chance I got, I did him.

This isn't going in fairly for a 50-50 tackle, this is going out to injure someone.

kida · 03-09-2008 12:50pm

Des wrote: »

Rose tinted glass syndrome.

He said he went out to "do" him. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

Here's the Roy quote

Look the same to me.

Carragher has admitted to intentionally going out to injure a team-mate, and seems to be fairly happy that he limped out of training.

How anyone can defend that reprehensible act is beyond me.

It's a pretty scummy action, no?

i would consider a lot worse - doing a teammate rather than an opposition player - wonder will the FA ban him now

Handsome Bob · 03-09-2008 12:54pm

joker77 wrote: »

Lads, c'mon now. It's more or less the same thing - both went out of their way to 'do' the opponent.

And for the record - Haaland's career ended because of a problem with his other leg, not the one Keane 'did'.

I'm a bit fan of both Carragher and Keane, and while you can't condone that kind of behaviour - I'd have to put my hand up and say I'd probably have acted in the same way on both occasions. That's just honesty, not something I'm proud of.

Edit:
This isn't going in fairly for a 50-50 tackle, this is going out to injure someone.

So just because it was the other leg that ended his career does that make it ok that Keane, as a captain of the team, deliberately went out to seriously injure a player?

Carragher was a fool for what he did, but I'm willing to put that down to him being a young hothead because I don't think Carragher has a record of being a dangerous and dirty player.

joker77 · 03-09-2008 12:57pm

LZ5by5 wrote: »

So just because it was the other leg that ended his career does that make it ok that Keane, as a captain of the team, deliberately went out to serously injure a player?

Carragher was a fool for what he did, but I'm willing to put that down to being a young hothead because I don't think Carragher has a record of being a dangerous and dirty player.

I didn't say it was ok - in fact I said you couldn't condone it - if you'd bothered to read the rest of my post. I was just clarifying that you seem to think that Keane ended Haaland's career. This is just plain untrue.

What I'm saying is the act itself is more or less the same for both incidents, but your opinion of the people committing them is clouding your judgement

podge018 · 03-09-2008 1:00pm

he roughed him up in a 50-50. Probably wouldn't have been a free-kick. Song was well used to dishing out tasty 50-50s himself, I used to love him for his crunchers.

joker77 · 03-09-2008 1:03pm

podge018 wrote: »

he roughed him up in a 50-50. Probably wouldn't have been a free-kick. Song was well used to dishing out tasty 50-50s himself, I used to love him for his crunchers.

He didn't say he roughed him up, he said the first chance he got - he 'did him'. By that he means he went out to hurt him. Not necessarily injure, but definitely hurt. Anyone who's ever played football knows exactly what he's talking about - you wait for a 50-50 ish tackle to ensure you get the ball but a lot of power goes into kicking your opponent.

Draupnir · 03-09-2008 1:03pm

Lads, lads, lads, after this shameless dose of rose tinted glasses-itis, your opinions are forever tarnished. I can't believe you are even trying to defend these scummy actions as being better than what Keane did to Haaland.

As for Redspider, please stop saying Keane ended Haalands career when it had nothing to do with the tackle, it is a complete lie to say that he did.

Handsome Bob · 03-09-2008 1:04pm

joker77 wrote: »

I didn't say it was ok - in fact I said you couldn't condone it - if you'd bothered to read the rest of my post. I was just clarifying that you seem to think that Keane ended Haaland's career. This is just plain untrue.

What I'm saying is the act itself is more or less the same for both incidents, but your opinion of the people committing them is clouding your judgement

My judgement is not clouded, I said Carragher was a fool and that he made a stupid mistake, and even a dumber mistake in writing about it. I can only judge Carragher on how I've seen his career, he's never done anything like that before in a match so forgive me if I'm unwilling to dismiss him as a scumbag.

Mr Alan · 03-09-2008 1:05pm

Utd fans and ex-Utd fans just love to stir it.

most every defensive player has at one point or another hit someone hard in order to let them know they are there, or just to rough them up a bit-maybe they just dont like them. always been part of the game and thats wat carra did.

There is a massive difference between that, and a deliberate leg breaker that was planned and thought about for months and months before the incident.

but they dont wanna see that

joker77 · 03-09-2008 1:08pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

Utd fans and ex-Utd fans just love to stir it.

most every defensive player has at one point or another hit someone hard in order to let them know they are there, or just to rough them up a bit-maybe they just dont like them. always been part of the game and thats wat carra did.

There is a massive difference between that, and a deliberate leg breaker that was planned and thought about for months and months before the incident.

but they dont wanna see that

I'm a Liverpool fan.

Do I think there was more malice and forethought in the Keane tackle? Probably. Haven't seen Carragher's one. From what he's saying though, there was both malice and forethought, albeit a bit less. I don't think there's 'a massive difference'.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

My judgement is not clouded, I said Carragher was a fool and that he made a stupid mistake, and even a dumber mistake in writing about it. I can only judge Carragher on how I've seen his career, he's never done anything like that before in a match so forgive me if I'm unwilling to dismiss him as a scumbag.

Your judgement is clouded, why did you think Keane ended Haaland's career? Because you wanted to believe it....

Handsome Bob · 03-09-2008 1:14pm

joker77 wrote: »

Your judgement is clouded, why did you think Keane ended Haaland's career? Because you wanted to believe it....

Do you think Haaland really had bad issues with either knee before that horrendous tackle? The injured knee that ended Haaland's career was not the one that Keane try to snap in two, but it certainly made any comeback by Haaland damn near impossible.

joker77 · 03-09-2008 1:16pm

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Do you think Haaland really had bad issues with either knee before that horrendous tackle? The injured knee that ended Haaland's career was not the one that Keane try to snap in two, but it certainly made any comeback by Haaland damn near impossible.

Hmmmmm..... and you've researched this yea?

Listen to yourself will you - first off you were wrong in what you said. Now you're still trying to assert something that has no basis in fact. Simple as.

Mr Alan · 03-09-2008 1:17pm

joker77 wrote: »

Do I think there was more malice and forethought in the Keane tackle? Probably. Haven't seen Carragher's one. From what he's saying though, there was both malice and forethought, albeit a bit less. I don't think there's 'a massive difference'.

Keanes was thought over for months with the deliberate intention of doing the bloke seriously.

Carraghers was only a short amount of time after the incident.

If Carraghers was an over the top career threatening tackle like Keanes assault, then carragher would be a ****. but i very much doubt it was.

nothing wrong with deliberately fouling someone in order to let them know you're there, piss them off, just because you dont like them (robbie savage or someone), but there is a line of decency which should not be crossed where you would seriously jeopordise the players career.

Keane crossed it, big time. Perhaps carra did, but considering there was no injury to song, and nothing was ever reported at the time, and he doesnt have a history of reckless tackles-only tough but fair ones, i'm gonna assume the two incidents were totally different.

Utd fans and joker liverpool fans (see wat i did there?;)) can assume otherwise if they wish, but unless they provide video proof the tackle/intent was the same as Keanes, i will call them shameful speculative little scaremongerers.

**** me, talk about mountains out of molehills, I've read Adams biography and he was always talking about doing people intentionally too! its the extent of the "doing" that is important imo which is why people will always remember Keanes/Gerrards/Essiens horror tackles-they were so much worse that wat is near acceptable.

As long as he wasnt trying to leave any lasting/longterm damage, i'm happy.

kida · 03-09-2008 1:19pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

Utd fans and ex-Utd fans just love to stir it.

most every defensive player has at one point or another hit someone hard in order to let them know they are there, or just to rough them up a bit-maybe they just dont like them. always been part of the game and thats wat carra did.

There is a massive difference between that, and a deliberate leg breaker that was planned and thought about for months and months before the incident.

but they dont wanna see that

Keane was done for 2 charges of bringing the game into disrepute - more specifically citing "element of revenge" and "publishing his account to gain financial reward"

both are also relevant here

Handsome Bob · 03-09-2008 1:21pm

joker77 wrote: »

Hmmmmm..... and you've researched this yea?

Listen to yourself will you - first off you were wrong in what you said. Now you're still trying to assert something that has no basis in fact. Simple as.

Read up on how Haaland views the whole thing I suugest.

herbieflowers · 03-09-2008 1:23pm

so Carra intentionally injured one of his own team-mates?

joker77 · 03-09-2008 1:24pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

Keanes was thought over for months with the deliberate intention of doing the bloke seriously.

Carraghers was only a short amount of time after the incident.

But it's still more or less the same - malice of forethought.

I've already said I don't condone either tackle, and like yourself I haven't seen Carraghers.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Utd fans and joker liverpool fans (see wat i did there?;))

Ah name calling, the last resort of someone fighting a losing battle.

kida · 03-09-2008 1:25pm

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Read up on how Haaland views the whole thing I suugest.

http://www.uneedspecsref.co.uk/behind-the-bust-ups.php

Haaland retired through injury a year later. Haaland's web site stated that
his retirement was not caused as a result of Roy Keane's tackle (for which
Keane could have been banned permanently from the game and/or sued had it
been proved that Haarland had had to retire as a direct consequence of the
United captain's tackle).
For the record, and according to his own website, the injury that ended
Haaland's career in football was in his OTHER knee, not the one that got
crocked by the Keane tackle.)

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/fa-charges-keane-over-comments-in-book-642010.html

But the Norwegian undermined his case in old comments on his own website which suggested Keane's tackle was not primarily responsible for his lay-off.

joker77 · 03-09-2008 1:26pm

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Read up on how Haaland views the whole thing I suugest.

I suggest next time you try to smear somebody with something they didn't do, you should be the one doing the reading up.

Mitch Connor · 03-09-2008 1:27pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm sure the tackle was nothing like that other tackle, evidenced by the fact it was not a career ending one and happened in training.

i'm sure it was just a hard tackle to put him in his place.

It wasn't a career ending tackle by Roy Keane either. No matter how many times you say it and wish it to be true.

Sizzler · 03-09-2008 1:28pm

Des wrote: »

Rose tinted glass syndrome.

He said he went out to "do" him. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

Here's the Roy quote

Look the same to me.

Carragher has admitted to intentionally going out to injure a team-mate, and seems to be fairly happy that he limped out of training.

How anyone can defend that reprehensible act is beyond me.

It's a pretty scummy action, no?

+1

Only difference here is we never get to seeit, even if we did no doubt Mr.Rosey glasses would have said it wasnt as bad as Keane's :rolleyes:

herbieflowers · 03-09-2008 1:29pm

How can you differentiate between a career-ending tackle and a "hard" tackle? Surely if you go in with enough force on someone there's a chance that it could end their career...

Handsome Bob · 03-09-2008 1:29pm

joker77 wrote: »

I suggest next time you try to smear somebody with something they didn't do, you should be the one doing the reading up.

Yeah ok, I'll just give someone a pat on the back the next time they try to deliberately end someone's career but get away with it.:rolleyes:

~Rebel~ · 03-09-2008 1:30pm

Pointless debate as none of us saw Carra's challenge.

For all we know it could have been a fair challenge that he just put everything into so the other guy would feel it (done this a fair few times myself in matches where a defender keeps kicking at my ankles when im on the ball).

It could also have been a 2 footed lunge, one foot through the ball, the other straight into his shin.

Point is we don't know.

herbieflowers · 03-09-2008 1:31pm

true, he's probably exaggerating to make himself look tough

or to sell books...

joker77 · 03-09-2008 1:32pm

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Yeah ok, I'll just give someone a pat on the back the next time they try to deliberately end someone's career but get away with it.:rolleyes:

Where did I say I'd give him a pat on the back? I've already said twice now I couldn't condone it.

You can try to wriggle your way out of it all you like, but what you've said both times is untrue.

And you can roll your eyes all you like, I'm just stating facts. Your cloudy judgement doesn't want to hear facts though.

Helix · 03-09-2008 1:32pm

herbieflowers wrote: »

How can you differentiate between a career-ending tackle and a "hard" tackle? Surely if you go in with enough force on someone there's a chance that it could end their career...

you dont even have to go in with force. if someone catches their studs and all you wanted to do was give them a kick on the shin, you could still shatter their leg

joker77 · 03-09-2008 1:33pm

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Pointless debate as none of us saw Carra's challenge.

For all we know it could have been a fair challenge that he just put everything into so the other guy would feel it (done this a fair few times myself in matches where a defender keeps kicking at my ankles when im on the ball).

It could also have been a 2 footed lunge, one foot through the ball, the other straight into his shin.

Point is we don't know.

Fair enough, but the point is he's come out and said he deliberately tried to 'do him'.

That's the point.

kida · 03-09-2008 1:33pm

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Pointless debate as none of us saw Carra's challenge.

For all we know it could have been a fair challenge that he just put everything into so the other guy would feel it (done this a fair few times myself in matches where a defender keeps kicking at my ankles when im on the ball).

It could also have been a 2 footed lunge, one foot through the ball, the other straight into his shin.

Point is we don't know.

Keane wasn't done for the serverity(that was handled by the original red card) so its largely irrelevant how bad it was.

He was done for "revenge" and "profiting from talking about it" - ahrd to see how they don't apply here also

Mr Alan · 03-09-2008 1:34pm

MOUNTAINS OUT OF MOLEHILLS

This is not deserving of its own thread and i resent the fact that it looks like i started it.

Giving it its own thread lends more creedence to the stupid accusations that are being made here by people trying to belittle Roy Keanes tackles on Haaland by either, 1)claiming it is something all pros do. or 2) saying well carragher did the same so you cant say anything.

What mod started this?
I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and say phb.....correct?

DeadSkin · 03-09-2008 1:35pm

Liverpool fan here, there is no way you can defend what Carra done, there was intent & planning involved.
He went to hunt him down and take him out no matter what. Carra was raging.
Seriously, any Liverpool fan defending Carra's actions, take off the f*ckin' rosetinted goggles.
The only difference between Carra's tackle & Keane's is that Keane had to wait a little longer.

Killme00 · 03-09-2008 1:35pm

Are we going to have to put up with this bickering sh-ite getting worse until the 13th.

herbieflowers · 03-09-2008 1:37pm

tbh where is this thread going to go?

Mitch Connor · 03-09-2008 1:38pm

herbieflowers wrote: »

tbh where is this thread going to go?

Funkytown.

copacetic · 03-09-2008 1:41pm

joker77 wrote: »

I didn't say it was ok - in fact I said you couldn't condone it - if you'd bothered to read the rest of my post. I was just clarifying that you seem to think that Keane ended Haaland's career. This is just plain untrue.

Not sure anyone can say one way or the other, Haaland certainly feels it ended his career. Or at least 'I never played properly again, take what yuou want from that' or similar quote in weekends papers.

Pighead · 03-09-2008 1:45pm

Cracking thread Al.

Very surprised Carragher has put this out into the public domain. Surely he doesn't need the dough that much. Bottom line is he tried to injure Song as is shown by his delight when Song "hobbles away". Bold Carra!

~Rebel~ · 03-09-2008 1:45pm

joker77 wrote: »

Fair enough, but the point is he's come out and said he deliberately tried to 'do him'.

That's the point.

kida wrote: »

Keane wasn't done for the serverity(that was handled by the original red card) so its largely irrelevant how bad it was.

He was done for "revenge" and "profiting from talking about it" - ahrd to see how they don't apply here also

All well and good but you're trying to have a full debate about something where nobody has any clue what they're talking about.

The whole debate hinges on 2 phrases "50-50" and "Do".

Some will say that once it was a 50 50 challenge theres nought wrong, some will say once he said 'do' that its a horrible unspeakable evil.

I still stand by my point that this is an utterly pointless debate with the most tenuous of evidence on either side.

JimiTime · 03-09-2008 1:47pm

I am apalled that people can defend Carra here! Its all about intent! Any player you sets out to 'do' a fellow player is bang out of order. There is no difference between the Keane and Carra incidents. None! Keane was a fantastic player, who will be forever tarnished by that incident. Rightly so. Carra's behaviour is no different. I understand the Liverpool - Man U rivalry, but guys, Grow the hell up!

joker77 · 03-09-2008 1:48pm

My last words on the subject.

I'm a Liverpool fan, and also a fan of Carraghers.

However, I think it's a double-standard for Liverpool fans to get up on their high horse and say that because he hasn't been a dirty player during his career there was obviously nothing serious in his challenge on Song.

The simple fact is, he has come out in his autobiography and said that he deliberately went out of his way to try to injure an opponent. The only differences with his and Keane's situation is that there was more time between what sparked the revenge mission and the incident, and 1 happened in training and the other in a competitive match. We don't know how serious Carraghers tackle was, or how serious he meant it to be, because we haven't seen it. So we can't comment on it. Ok this is the first we've heard about it, but wouldn't all clubs try to not let something like this leak out to the media?? So it's hardly surprising we didn't hear about it.

They have both stated it in their biographies, both in an attempt to generate a bit of publicity and therefore cash.

Therefore I think that Carragher should be up for roughly the same charges of bringing the game into disrepute etc.

It's about setting an example. So Liverpool fans, take off the red-tinted specs. The simple fact is he shouldn't have written about it now, not while he's still playing. It's a bit cheap if you ask me, looking for publicity this way, and he more than likely will end up with a ban, which is no good for LFC. So I'm not overly happy with Carragher at the minute. He should have waited till he retired.

stooge · 03-09-2008 1:48pm

kida wrote: »

Keane wasn't done for the serverity(that was handled by the original red card) so its largely irrelevant how bad it was.

He was done for "revenge" and "profiting from talking about it" - ahrd to see how they don't apply here also

As a utd and keane fan I would hazard a guess that the keane tackle was probably worse but I can also say that there have been worse tackles than keane's on the pitch and training ground. (remember John hartson kicking berkovic full in the face???)

Point here is that Keane was suspended for stating in his bio that he intentionally 'did' haaland. The same rule applies here with the only exception being the player on the receiving end was a teammate. As we've seen from various incidents (bowyer/dyer/le saux etc) just because you hit a teammate doesnt mean you get away with it.

As for LZ5by5's posts.......:rolleyes: Have you actually posted something in this thread which is true?? Haaland retired because of his other leg, keane didnt try to END haalands career (theres no mention of that anywhere).

Main point is, if you 'DO' someone intentionally, dont admit it in a book otherwise expect to get fined or suspended (by the FA or Club),

P.s. Just so you know, I actually like carragher as a player. Hasn't got all the skills but gets on with his job on the pitch. Was delighted when they beat Milan in the CL final purely because of Carra's performance that night.

~Rebel~ · 03-09-2008 1:52pm

Draupnir wrote: »

As for Redspider, please stop saying Keane ended Haalands career when it had nothing to do with the tackle, it is a complete lie to say that he did.

Just spotted this...Redspider hasn't posted once in this thread, either before or after this comment.......

Mr Alan · 03-09-2008 1:53pm

I would imagine the fact that it was also in a training session does mean that nothing can happen as it wasnt during a PL match, therefore would be an internal matter and not one for within the PLs jurisdiction.

this thread is a load of cock.

****ing idiotic thread.

I think Nasri clipping Bartons heals at the weekend intentionally was as bad as Keanes tackle.

Thats the equivelant of the ****e being spouted here.

This is a stupid thread

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