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Major blow for england against Andorra

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Comments

  • #52
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,967 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Its must be very frustrating playing a team like that. I think they need Heskey on and Beckham for a couple of crosses and to make use of set pieces. I don't like Walcott at all and why play with four defenders, I think they could employ the legendary unheard of 2-4-4 formation:D


  • #53
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,630 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Goalless? The England fans won't like this. Imagine if it stayed that way?! Won't happen but t'would be funny.


  • #54
    ~Rebel~
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,019 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Downings been banging in crosses to no avail though. Crouch on the bench would have been a good idea imo. Always does very well against the smaller teams. As you said, Heskey as well, as the crosses to defoe are essentially pointless.



    <Edit>
    Joe cole, Goal.


  • #55
    String
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭String


    J cole goal


  • #56
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,630 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Come on Andorra time to try 3-4-3 and really go for it. :pac:


  • #57
    SantryRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,224 ✭✭✭✭SantryRed


    Well I'm off out.

    That was fun while it lasted eh?:D


  • #58
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    2-0 Joe Cole again, game over.


  • #59
    shane86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭shane86


    ~Rebel~ wrote: »
    <Edit>
    Joe cole, Goal.

    Ah ffs. I read through every post of the (at the time of typing) last page of the thread and grew more excited with each one :(

    I posted on this board upon his appointment that Capello would be found out. Unfortunately, this isnt the match.


  • #60
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Unlucky Glen Johnson, has done quite well.


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  • #61
    Orizio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    Tom65 wrote: »
    How are England so bad? It's just astonishing. Individually, they've great players. So, just how?


    Also, Frank Lampard is a waste of a jersey. All he seems to do is blast the ball over the bar.

    Midfield isn't that 'great' at all, same old problems of a lack of creativity in the middle plus the starting forwards are two alike, real lack of balance. With respect, can't see how the likes of Walcott, Downing, Defoe etc have done enough to be labelled as 'great'.


  • #62
    Tom65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭Tom65


    Orizio wrote: »
    Midfield isn't that 'great' at all, same old problems of a lack of creativity in the middle plus the starting forwards are two alike, real lack of balance. With respect, can't see how the likes of Walcott, Downing, Defoe etc have done enough to be labelled as 'great'.

    Fair point, but I'm speaking more generally than just tonight's team. A team of: James, Brown, Terry, Ferdinand, A Cole, J Cole, Lampard/Gerrard/Carrick/Hargreaves/Beckham (take your pick), Rooney and Owen/Defoe is, on paper, one of the strongest starting line-ups in the world. Just terrible on the pitch.


  • #63
    m@cc@
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭m@cc@


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    He has had a very poor start to the season.

    Rooney hasn't been able to finish for the past 2 years. He's become a luxury for United.


  • #64
    leninbenjamin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    Tom65 wrote: »
    Fair point, but I'm speaking more generally than just tonight's team. A team of: James, Brown, Terry, Ferdinand, A Cole, J Cole, Lampard/Gerrard/Carrick/Hargreaves/Beckham (take your pick), Rooney and Owen/Defoe is, on paper, one of the strongest starting line-ups in the world. Just terrible on the pitch.

    I think it's quite simple really. when it comes to England they overdo it. people like Gerrard/Lampard are too eager to be the best player on the park, the hero for their country, that they just forget everything that's going on around them and try and do it themselves. bit like Ireland in a way, everyone ends up running around like headless Chickens.

    that, and i'm almost certain that there are external pressures from sponsors to try and play all of the big players in the same team, like Lampard/Gerrard, even though it's quite clear they don't fit together. it's just baffling to think Capello is making the same mistakes that both Eriksson and McClaren made.

    interesting enough McClaren's supposed to have said 'he's facing the same problems i did' without elaborating what he meant; so i think that means that things aren't quite as straightforward in the England setup as we're led to believe.


  • #65
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,967 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    James(need a better keeper)

    Brown
    Terry
    Ferdinand
    Cole
    Barry
    Lampard

    Bentley
    Rooney
    Cole
    Heskey

    They don't need an out and out goalscorer up front imo, they need someone who can hold up the ball a bit better and they don't really have a good one. To get the best out of that team, maybe Dean Ashton if he shows that he can stay fit.
    Thats what I think is the best lineup for the Croatia match.


  • #66
    leninbenjamin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    m@cc@ wrote: »
    Rooney hasn't been able to finish for the past 2 years. He's become a luxury for United.

    luxury? are you mad? he's their most important player! he does the dirty work up front, he creates the space for Ronaldo to run into! they are half the team they are without him! he's just not a natural goalscorer end of, and should never be though of as one. but that doesn't mean he isn't capable of being England's best player; in fact he's more than anyone in the past few years has shown this.


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  • #67
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,967 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    m@cc@ wrote: »
    Rooney hasn't been able to finish for the past 2 years. He's become a luxury for United.
    This is a joke? right?


  • #68
    aidan24326
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    Tom65 wrote: »
    Fair point, but I'm speaking more generally than just tonight's team. A team of: James, Brown, Terry, Ferdinand, A Cole, J Cole, Lampard/Gerrard/Carrick/Hargreaves/Beckham (take your pick), Rooney and Owen/Defoe is, on paper, one of the strongest starting line-ups in the world. Just terrible on the pitch.

    I agree. It's difficult to know why a team that contains some of Europe's best club performers always seem to amount to less than the sum of their parts as a team.
    m@cc@ wrote: »
    Rooney hasn't been able to finish for the past 2 years. He's become a luxury for United.

    He was poor again tonight too, didn't get involved much and fluffed the couple of half chances that he got. You'd expect alot more from him against a poor team like Andorra.


  • #69
    Orizio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    Tom65 wrote: »
    Fair point, but I'm speaking more generally than just tonight's team. A team of: James, Brown, Terry, Ferdinand, A Cole, J Cole, Lampard/Gerrard/Carrick/Hargreaves/Beckham (take your pick), Rooney and Owen/Defoe is, on paper, one of the strongest starting line-ups in the world. Just terrible on the pitch.

    I'd have a Hargreaves/Gerrard midfield partnership, but imo these aren't creative on the level of a Fabregas for example, and that is the kind of exceptional playmaker that England doesn't have and hasn't had for years. Its why I never fancy them to win a major trophy.

    Beyond that, Owen/Rooney lacks balance and is still too samey, Rooney is struggling for form and Owen isn't quite the palyer he once was and beyond that there are too few options. Again for me they need someone to sit in the hole to open up a defence, or as a last resort a good target man, and again England doesn't have these kind of players at a high level. The fact that they have Beckham on the wing just adds to the impression of decline imo, because despite the quality crosses he lacks penetration and is well into his 30's.

    I have a hard time thinking much of this England team. They lack quality players in essential positions for a start, and generally lack creativity.


  • #70
    leninbenjamin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    Orizio wrote: »
    I have a hard time thinking much of this England team. They lack quality players in essential positions for a start, and generally lack creativity.

    Young, Cole and Rooney are 3 of the most creative players in the premier league, so to say they lack creativity is wrong imo. it really is baffling to think Young wasn't called up...

    i'd love Capello to bold and see something like this:

    ----Carrick
    Hargreaves
    Cole
    Rooney
    Young
    Heskey

    i know it lacks a proper finisher, but get the three behind Heskey on the ball enough and you still have a good goal threat. in Hargreaves you've got someone who will do the dirty work and the closing down, and of all the current midfielders Carrick is probably the best for passing the ball from deep imo.

    I really do think that Gerrard/Lampard/Rooney will never be able to operate properly on the same team, they are all very different players except in the area of the pitch they occupy, where England end up crowding themselves out. I'd go for Rooney personally, although you could swap out either. it'll take some courage though for a manager to ever do that.


  • #71
    ziggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ziggy


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #72
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    leninbenjamin wrote: »
    Young, Cole and Rooney are 3 of the most creative players in the premier league, so to say they lack creativity is wrong imo. it really is baffling to think Young wasn't called up...

    i'd love Capello to bold and see something like this:

    ----Carrick
    Hargreaves
    Cole
    Rooney
    Young
    Heskey


    Have been impressed with Joe Cole anytime I have seen him play for both Chelsea and England, I wonder if Michael Owen can stay fit,would you see him back possibly with Heskey who seems to have a good relationship with him.


  • #73
    Orizio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    leninbenjamin wrote: »
    Young, Cole and Rooney are 3 of the most creative players in the premier league, so to say they lack creativity is wrong imo. it really is baffling to think Young wasn't called up...

    I don't particurly disagree but none of these players play in the center of midfield, the pivotal position imo, the area England is most lacking.

    Possibly you could play Joe Cole behind Rooney but Capello doesn't seem to want play Cole in his normal position, nevermind experiment with him.


  • #74
    ziggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ziggy


    This post has been deleted.


  • #75
    leninbenjamin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    Orizio wrote: »
    I don't particurly disagree but none of these players play in the center of midfield, the pivotal position imo, the area England is most lacking.

    that's my point. if the system is set up right you don't need a particularly creative player in midfield, although i feel myself that Carrick would be the best candidate.

    Chelsea never had a particularly creative MC under Mourinho, 2 workhorses in Essien and Makelele and Lampard for getting on the end of things the wingers or Drogba creates. it worked for them.


  • #76
    ~Rebel~
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,019 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    ziggy wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Dont agree with this at all, Lampard fair enough has done very little in an England jersey, but to be fair Gerrard has always actually been quite good for england. Not quite his Liverpool level, but still good enough not to be dropped. Comes up with some big goals for England as well.

    Against the decent teams i'd go with

    ----Carrick--Hargreaves
    Gerrard---Rooney---Young
    Form striker (Defoe, Heskey, Owen, Crouch, Bent, Ashton)

    Against the lesser teams;
    Carrick
    Cole---Gerrard---Young
    ----Rooney--Form Striker

    with Barry filling for whatever central midfielder would undoubtedly be missing as often as not.


  • #77
    ziggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ziggy


    This post has been deleted.


  • #78
    ~Rebel~
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,019 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    ziggy wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Im not talking about results, im talking about performances. Gerrards haven't warrented being dropped. Its not his fault England don't have a 'brain' type player on the pitch. Id love to see the 2 teams i showed above in action. Carrick is the most intelligent passer of the ball England have and imo would change that team completely in a system playing to his strengths. Against a good team if he has an enforcer like Hargreaves beside him and intelligent runners like Rooney, Young and Gerrard all moving for him it would make such a difference. England have plenty of grand passers, in that they find a man, but imo he's the best at picking the right pass. He's no Pirlo or Xavi, but he's the best they have.

    (p.s this obviously isn't about 'club sensibilities' considering im picking a united player as the key to the team)


  • #79
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,967 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Originally Posted by ziggy viewpost.gif

    In midfield, neither Lampard or Gerrard have performed: both should be dropped! Both cracking players at club level but simply aren't producing the goods. Time for some new thinking
    I think one or the other should be playing but not both. My belief is that the midfield area is too crowded too often for England with these two players almost getting in each others way. I think you will see a much improved performance from either if there is only one of them in the lineup.
    My own personal preference would be for Gerard but that is not important.


  • #80
    PHB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Whatever you want to say about Rooney for England, don't transfer it to United, its just a completely baseless opinion considering what Rooney did for United last season. And considering his pass for Coles second goal was a peach, its pretty harsh on him.

    I maintain my belief that you can only play one of Lampard Rooney and Gerrard in their natural position. Capello has yet to understand the problems of Lampard who in a very specific formation is an unreal player, but not in anything but.

    Joe Cole deserves his goals. The guy is criminally underrated (talk of him moving to Villa in the summer like).

    At the core of Englands problems against weaker teams imo is the exclusion of Carrick, the only natural passer of the ball in the English team [bar Scholes of course]. They cry out for him every single game. People may not rate him as highly as the likes of Fabregas or Alonso in the same ilk, but teams need players like this, and Carrick is the best England have in that position.


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