Kenny's motion of no-confidence

Poly · 10-06-2010 7:45am #1

Kenny to try another K.O. before the summer bell.
The litany of FF lies and spin has finally caught up with them.
I’ve a feeling there could be a bit of momentum on this one. Come on the Greens, do the honourable thing and give us an election.

REXER · 10-06-2010 8:06am

Greens Honourable???:rolleyes: Whats that all about?

Owen · 10-06-2010 8:16am

Don't you know the Greens are the new communists? Telling us what cars we can drive, wanting to keep taxes high, charging us for water.

Millie · 10-06-2010 8:23am

I really do hope this will have consequences for FF this time, the rats have gotten away with way too much and deserve to fall.

gandalf · 10-06-2010 9:01am

There is no way the Greens will pull the plug. They are up to their necks in it with FF now. Sure Ryan shared the stage with Cowen and Lenihan yesterday. At this stage Cowen could get away with dumping nuclear waste on Brittas bay and the Greens would let him.

meditraitor · 10-06-2010 9:50am

Poly wrote: »

Kenny to try another K.O. before the summer bell.
The litany of FF lies and spin has finally caught up with them.
I’ve a feeling there could be a bit of momentum on this one. Come on the Greens, do the honourable thing and give us an election.

Kenny and K.O in the one sentence.... LOL
Kenny is a feather weight in a heavyweight division. He has shown his inability to even land a punch in the past..... Why he is still leader of FG is a mystery to me....
FF will swat him like a fly on a window and go off into the summer break laughing at the lack of leadership in the main opposition, something they have been doing for 15 years.

gandalf · 10-06-2010 10:16am

meditraitor wrote: »

Kenny and K.O in the one sentence.... LOL
Kenny is a feather weight in a heavyweight division. He has shown his inability to even land a punch in the past..... Why he is still leader of FG is a mystery to me....
FF will swat him like a fly on a window and go off into the summer break laughing at the lack of leadership in the main opposition, something they have been doing for 15 years.

The problem is when you look at Cowen a man who has now been proven along with those in charge of the banks and regulation of the banks of being guilty of making this crisis far worse in Ireland than it should have been, any alternative is better.

Next election there will be swatting but far from dishing it out FF will be on the receiving end of it. All those people who have lost jobs, lost homes are in negative equity now have a clear mission and that is to punish those who are supposed to plan and prepare our society for the bad times as well as the good which the FF led Governments clearly have failed to do.

As I said at this stage any alternative would be welcome. Hell even Podge and Rodge would probably be a better choice than Biffo and friends and a damn sight safer as well.

Liam Byrne · 10-06-2010 10:34am

meditraitor wrote: »

Kenny and K.O in the one sentence.... LOL
Kenny is a feather weight in a heavyweight division. He has shown his inability to even land a punch in the past..... Why he is still leader of FG is a mystery to me....

How about Cowen, accountability, competence and truth in the one sentence.....LOL even more.

He's more than shown his inability to do anything right.

Why he is still leader of FF is a mystery to me.

meditraitor wrote: »

FF will swat him like a fly on a window and go off into the summer break laughing at the lack of leadership in the main opposition, something they have been doing for 15 years.

If FF go off into this summer break laughing about petty party politics while giving the OK to all sorts of corruption that have ruined this country then I'd be even more sickened by them than I am, and that's saying something!

Then again, I'm not even sure that they should get a summer break, after those reports yesterday......it's the equivalent of a fireman downing a hose at 12 midnight on a massive blaze just because he'd booked the day off.

Of course, it could be argued that the country will run better with FF nowhere near it, so we should probably welcome the break....at least FF and the Greens won't be imposing any new taxes or bailouts......

Fuhrer · 10-06-2010 10:36am

I thought this was going to be a motion of no confidence of Kennys FG leadership.

scr123 · 10-06-2010 10:37am

gandalf wrote: »

The problem is when you look at Cowen a man who has now been proven along with those in charge of the banks and regulation of the banks of being guilty of making this crisis far worse in Ireland than it should have been, any alternative is better.

Next election there will be swatting but far from dishing it out FF will be on the receiving end of it. All those people who have lost jobs, lost homes are in negative equity now have a clear mission and that is to punish those who are supposed to plan and prepare our society for the bad times as well as the good which the FF led Governments clearly have failed to do.

As I said at this stage any alternative would be welcome. Hell even Podge and Rodge would probably be a better choice than Biffo and friends and a damn sight safer as well.

The Opposition is full of Podge and Rodge characters. Anybody wants them to run the country has serious lack of nous

amacachi · 10-06-2010 10:40am

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Don't you know the Greens are the new communists? Telling us what cars we can drive, wanting to keep taxes high, charging us for water.

O...kay.

Het-Field · 10-06-2010 10:49am

scr123 wrote: »

The Opposition is full of Podge and Rodge characters. Anybody wants them to run the country has serious lack of nous

And the two reports of Honohan and H&R would just fill you with confidence given the wonderfully unparalleled nous and smarts of the FF front bench!

Give me a break. Of course, you wont want to discuss the reports.

Liam Byrne · 10-06-2010 11:09am

Why the hell are some FF TDs on holiday already ?

Their holidays don't start for a few months!

And given the level of condoning of stroke-pulling and con-artists, one can't help but wonder whether FF gave some of them a holiday so that they weren't available this week, giving FF some scope for weaselling out of this vote.

Those who took early holidays and who aren't obviously doing what they're paid for in this time of crisis should be named, shamed and evicted from the Dáil.

Does anyone have a list of these dossers ?

scr123 wrote: »

The Opposition is full of Podge and Rodge characters. Anybody wants them to run the country has serious lack of nous

Typical pathetic and condescending swipe soundbite in order to avoid the issue being discussed.

Anyone who wants those identified in yesterday's report as to blame for Ireland's domestic crisis to run the country has a far more serious "lack of nous".

SeaFields · 10-06-2010 11:14am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Those who took early holidays and who aren't obviously doing what they're paid for in this time of crisis should be named, shamed and evicted from the Dáil.

Does anyone have a list of these dossers ?

Wasn't there a vote recently where the opposition refused to do any pairings with the government for votes? Same should go for this upcoming vote

It may work out to our benefit that these TDs fecked off early tbh. We live in hope.

Liam Byrne · 10-06-2010 11:16am

SeaFields wrote: »

It may work out to our benefit that these TDs fecked off early tbh. We live in hope.

It would work out that way if Cowen wasn't demonstrably subverting the democratic process....yet again.....

gandalf · 10-06-2010 11:22am

scr123 wrote: »

The Opposition is full of Podge and Rodge characters. Anybody wants them to run the country has serious lack of nous

Well I think the intelligent will look at the legacy that the Fianna Fail led governments have left the Irish Citizens from their latest stint in charge and decide for themselves.

The largest number of unemployed ever in the states history.
A raft of people caught in negative equity with quite a few facing the possibility that their properties will not come out of negative equity.
Citizens losing homes.
Banks being bailed out to the tune of billions that will not only burden this generation but the next generation of Irish workers.
A Health Service that is a disgrace and is hardly meeting the basic needs of its customers (another misdiagnosis scandal hitting again this week)
A bloated Public Service.
A Political Class that is so arrogant now that claiming expenses for a holiday home as their man residence isn't even frowned upon.

Need I go on. I think those who have a nous deficiency are those who support the FF party and think they have the best future of our state in mind when it is plainly obvious that their decisions were based on feathering their own nests and the nests of their patrons at the expense of the citizens of Ireland.

Liam Byrne · 10-06-2010 11:32am

gandalf wrote: »

Well I think the intelligent will look at the legacy that the Fianna Fail led governments have left the Irish Citizens from their latest stint in charge and decide for themselves.

Despite the objectionable list, it's not even half of the story.

Remember that we're paying most of the compensation bill for those abused by the dodgier members of the Church as well.

So basically, thanks to FF, we're paying for every dodgy (formerly respected) character imagineable:

1) FF TDs and Senators who don't govern and prefer to drive to and from holiday homes, or get driven from terminal A to terminal B
2) Bankers who can't bank and prefer to gamble
3) Clergy who can't preach Christianity and prefer to fiddle with kids

And listening to Cowen yesterday, it's quite obvious that they're prepared to brazen it out.....or worse, don't even see the damage that they are doing due to their misplaced superiority complex

meditraitor · 10-06-2010 11:46am

gandalf wrote: »

The problem is when you look at Cowen a man who has now been proven along with those in charge of the banks and regulation of the banks of being guilty of making this crisis far worse in Ireland than it should have been, any alternative is better.

Next election there will be swatting but far from dishing it out FF will be on the receiving end of it. All those people who have lost jobs, lost homes are in negative equity now have a clear mission and that is to punish those who are supposed to plan and prepare our society for the bad times as well as the good which the FF led Governments clearly have failed to do.

As I said at this stage any alternative would be welcome. Hell even Podge and Rodge would probably be a better choice than Biffo and friends and a damn sight safer as well.

I couldnt agree more but FG need a stronger leader if they are to really make hay in the next General election, yourself and Liam Byrne make very valid points about FF but what I meant was how the hell are these guys still running the country. As a Labour man it dissapoints me to say I think it is down to a toothless opposition, and Enda is the main culprit being the leader of the biggest opposition party.

T runner · 10-06-2010 12:17pm

Fuhrer wrote: »

I thought this was going to be a motion of no confidence of Kennys FG leadership.

I agree. All these threads seem to degenerate into a mindless spitfest at the Government/FF/Greens.

The Government have the numbers.

Dempsey ran rings around Bruton on Pat Kenny on the reports. The FG leader was weak in his attack on Cowen in the dail before his motion. Not exactly a moving target and he missed.

Labour need to earn to publics trust and move into the acres of room available in FF territory and (FFs idiot twin brother) FG's territory.

T runner · 10-06-2010 12:20pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Despite the objectionable list, it's not even half of the story.

Remember that we're paying most of the compensation bill for those abused by the dodgier members of the Church as well.

So basically, thanks to FF, we're paying for every dodgy (formerly respected) character imagineable:

1) FF TDs and Senators who don't govern and prefer to drive to and from holiday homes, or get driven from terminal A to terminal B
2) Bankers who can't bank and prefer to gamble
3) Clergy who can't preach Christianity and prefer to fiddle with kids

And listening to Cowen yesterday, it's quite obvious that they're prepared to brazen it out.....or worse, don't even see the damage that they are doing due to their misplaced superiority complex

Another one for you Liam:

A public who are more concerned with the cost of picking up the tab than actually protecting our children from harm in the first place.

Can we get back on topic now?

gandalf · 10-06-2010 12:24pm

T runner wrote: »

I agree. All these threads seem to degenerate into a mindless spitfest at the Government/FF/Greens.

I don't think you could classify my response as a "mindless spitfest" now can you?

The Government have the numbers.

For the moment, but they appear to be afraid to run the outstanding by-elections. They wouldn't be subverting democracy to preserve those numbers now would they?

Dempsey ran rings around Bruton on Pat Kenny on the reports. The FG leader was weak in his attack on Cowen in the dail before his motion. Not exactly a moving target and he missed.

Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to watch that performance but your opinion should really be based on the facts and not some theatrics in the Dail now shouldn't they. Facts like the content of the two reports yesterday which seem pretty damning about the Minister of Finance during the time period investigated. Now remind me who was that again?

Labour need to earn to publics trust and move into the acres of room available in FF territory and (FFs idiot twin brother) FG's territory.

But the no confidence motion is not about Labour or Fine Gael its about someone who is partially blamed for the severity of the crash here because of their misguided policies and their ability to lead this country considering their tainted past.

Liam Byrne · 10-06-2010 12:34pm

T runner wrote: »

Another one for you Liam:

A public who are more concerned with the cost of picking up the tab than actually protecting our children from harm in the first place.

Can we get back on topic now?

That's misrepresentation, and you know it.

Having the wrong people pick up the bill is wrong, and two wrongs don't make a right....that applies to both the church and Anglo/NAMA.

As for your laughable comment about Labour needing to gain the trust of the Irish people.......people in glasshouses, etc...... :rolleyes:

I also have to laugh my head off at your objection to Kenny's "attack" (viewed by neutrals as stating facts); you claim that Kenny is weak, but if you called that an "attack" what would you call it if he lived up to your style of bulldog politics and actually attacked him, rather than simply and calmly state the facts ?

You'd be on here using words stronger than "attacks" .....

So the double-standards is hilarious!

average_runner · 10-06-2010 12:36pm

Just like to go over some of these points:

The largest number of unemployed ever in the states history.

Is this not the same in every country. Go to Italy and you see how bad it is.

A raft of people caught in negative equity with quite a few facing the possibility that their properties will not come out of negative equity.

Why this is important. People who are complaining about negative equity are the ones who took a gamble to make a quick bob. You gamble you sometimes lose. I mean my horse lost last night, i be 100 on it, can i have that back please.

Alot of these people that bought to make a profit are the ones that caused alot of the price increases.

Citizens losing homes.

Should never borrow more than you afford if you hit a bad spot.

Banks being bailed out to the tune of billions that will not only burden this generation but the next generation of Irish workers.

What was your alternative solution?

A Health Service that is a disgrace and is hardly meeting the basic needs of its customers (another misdiagnosis scandal hitting again this week)

Same thing happens all over, UK has it big time.

A bloated Public Service.

Agree.

A Political Class that is so arrogant now that claiming expenses for a holiday home as their man residence isn't even frowned upon.

And thats FG members also, who you want to vote in also!!

No matter who you vote in, it be no difference

Liam Byrne · 10-06-2010 12:39pm

More hilarious double-standards!

Point 1 that you made :

average_runner wrote: »

People who are complaining about negative equity are the ones who took a gamble to make a quick bob. You gamble you sometimes lose.

Point 2 :

average_runner wrote: »

Banks being bailed out to the tune of billions

Where did point 1 suddenly disappear to ?

Mits · 10-06-2010 12:41pm

I don't think Mr. Kenny is up to the job. With the amount of ammunition the government has given them, they should have been kick out a long time ago.

The Greens will never see power again, so I can't see them wanting an election.

average_runner · 10-06-2010 12:41pm

what you mean Liam, disappeared?

Liam Byrne · 10-06-2010 12:45pm

average_runner wrote: »

what you mean Liam, disappeared?

You said that those who gamble should expect to lose out.

And then you appeared to say that there was no alternative to bailing out the banks, despite the fact that going by "those who gamble lose out" would mean that we let the gambling banks rot.

I've just had another thought, btw; maybe those missing FFers from the Dáil aren't on holidays ? Maybe they're just staying at their "primary residence for the purposes of expenses" ?

average_runner · 10-06-2010 12:50pm

Fair point Liam.

Unfortunately we cant let banks rot, cause really banks run every country.

Also can you please be fair when talking about expenses, to mention other parties, as far as I know a few FG were involved and that majority of FG made the decision not to produce receipts for their expenses at the weekend?? So they get 16,000 euros no matter what!

T runner · 10-06-2010 12:50pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Having the wrong people pick up the bill is wrong, and two wrongs don't make a right....that applies to both the church and Anglo/NAMA.

What has this got to do with Kennys motion of no confidence?

As for your laughable comment about Labour needing to gain the trust of the Irish people.......people in glasshouses, etc...... :rolleyes:

I dont get the glasshouse reference here. Labour have a pretty good record in trust and integrity.

I also have to laugh my head off at your objection to Kenny's "attack" (viewed by neutrals as stating facts); you claim that Kenny is weak, but if you called that an "attack" what would you call it if he lived up to your style of bulldog politics and actually attacked him, rather than simply and calmly state the facts ?

"Attack" is a word generally and often used in the media in such situations.

In a situation where you are live on national radio and are against a weak opponent you must make hay. If he didnt suceed in making hay and just repeated the main points of the report...well Im afraid, that is weakness (no-matter how calmly he said it).

T runner · 10-06-2010 12:56pm

Mits wrote: »

I don't think Mr. Kenny is up to the job. With the amount of ammunition the government has given them, they should have been kick out a long time ago.

The Greens will never see power again, so I can't see them wanting an election.

Yes I agree entirely. I just felt his speech this morning before his motion summed up his failings all along.

Gilmore would have made a far greater impact on national radio. (Kenny's speech was live).

freyners · 10-06-2010 12:57pm

average_runner wrote:

Just like to go over some of these points:
The largest number of unemployed ever in the states history.

Is this not the same in every country. Go to Italy and you see how bad it is.

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_PUBLIC/3-01062010-AP/EN/3-01062010-AP-EN.PDF
here is the latest eurostat on unemployment, Ireland has the second highest unemployment of the eurozone @13.2%, only spain is higher at 19.7%. Italy is at 8.9% fyi

average_runner wrote:

A raft of people caught in negative equity with quite a few facing the possibility that their properties will not come out of negative equity.

Why this is important. People who are complaining about negative equity are the ones who took a gamble to make a quick bob. You gamble you sometimes lose. I mean my horse lost last night, i be 100 on it, can i have that back please.

Alot of these people that bought to make a profit are the ones that caused alot of the price increases.

and despite many warnings that the housing prices were overinflated and the bubble was about to burst, the genius of bertie ahern and cowen were still assuring us the economy was sound in 2008 and that it was still a buyers market
despite all that, i kinda agree with ya on this one, paying 400,000k on a 2 bedroom house was never going to end well

average_runner wrote:

A Health Service that is a disgrace and is hardly meeting the basic needs of its customers (another misdiagnosis scandal hitting again this week)

Same thing happens all over, UK has it big time.

and how many of these would decide to remain halfway across the world, on basically a holiday, while it emerges that one of the more vital hospitals in the country have misdiagnosed nearly 60000 x rays? or that an obselete machine that told a woman her child was dead was kept in service for another 6 months.
i want to go on but i have my own things to do.

Kenny's motion of no-confidence

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