Driving third party - other car need insurance?

MagicRon · 23-08-2012 11:15am #1

My policy with you covers me to drive other cars third party. Does the other car need to have insurance of its own?
I have phoned you about this before and was told that the other car doesn't need to be insured. But, you wouldn't put this in writing for me...

peteb2 · 23-08-2012 6:47pm

You'll probably find that its writing - in your policy wording!

dharma200 · 23-08-2012 6:49pm

I know in my policy I am allowed to drive any car, aslong as it has current insurance and the car is not in my name... would be interested if you would be able to get into an uninsured car with your own insurance and be insured...

spodoinkle · 23-08-2012 6:57pm

MagicRon wrote: »

My policy with you covers me to drive other cars third party. Does the other car need to have insurance of its own?
I have phoned you about this before and was told that the other car doesn't need to be insured. But, you wouldn't put this in writing for me...

Not sure about the South, but in the North a car in a public place needs an insurance policy on that specific car.

When an insurance company covers you to drive other cars third party, the car does not need to be insured elsewhere (unless specified in policy) as they will cover you for 3rd party risk regardless.

Your question is from a legal perspective, which you should direct towards your local Gardai.

hucklebuck · 23-08-2012 7:01pm

MagicRon wrote: »

My policy with you covers me to drive other cars third party. Does the other car need to have insurance of its own?
I have phoned you about this before and was told that the other car doesn't need to be insured. But, you wouldn't put this in writing for me...

That is because they are still operating like Quinn but with a different name.

With good insurers you would be covered once you are the policyholder but can't be sure with Liberty. It might be on your insurance certificate around where your registration is printed.

hucklebuck · 23-08-2012 7:08pm

MugMugs wrote: »

Aviva, AXA, Allianz, RSA, Zurich, the big insurers who have good insurance policies, sorry about the short hand :P

peteb2 · 24-08-2012 8:51am

Driving other cars
If your certificate of insurance says so, we will also cover , you the policy holder, for your liability to other people while you are driving any other private motor car which you do not own or have not hired or leased, as long as:
1. the vehicle is not owned by your employer or hired to them under a hire-purchase or lease agreement;
2. you currently hold a full European Union (EU) licence;
3. the use of the vehicle is covered in the certificate of insurance;
4. cover is not provided by any other insurance;
5. you have the owner’s permission to drive the vehicle;
6. the vehicle is in a roadworthy condition; and
7. you still have the insured vehicle and it has not been damaged beyond cost-effective repair.

The above is take from the Liberty policy wording. You should probably consider reading it Hucklebuck before throwing comments around about insurers.

seamus · 24-08-2012 9:17am

I used to emphatically shout "No" about this, but any vehicle in a public place needs to be insured. This includes vehicles parked unattended on a public road.

So while another policy doesn't need to be in force on the vehicle per se, if you plan on leaving it unattended in a public place, then your own "Driving other cars" policy is not sufficient and the vehicle must be covered by a third party insurance policy taken out by the vehicle's owner.

If you are driving the vehicle from one private place to another (e.g. to a mechanic and back), it doesn't need to be insured provided that you are driving the vehicle during the entire period it is on the public road.

For reference, a "public place" for the purposes of the road traffic act is any place which the public have access to either by right or by permission. So "public place" includes car parks and ungated residential developments.

hucklebuck · 24-08-2012 10:12am

peteb2 wrote: »

The above is take from the Liberty policy wording. You should probably consider reading it Hucklebuck before throwing comments around about insurers.

Did you not see the OPs post that a member of Liberty would not give it to her in writing, so either:

A) the staff member was not sure and did not give it in writing in case she was wrong OR

the staff member does not know the policy or they would have referred the OP to her policy.

Also that is a very restrictive wording

* You must have a full EU licence
* Unbeknown to yourself you could have bought a car which was deemed BER
* Does the insured have to bring the car to ensure it is roadworthy before they drive it?

Liberty Insurance: Philip · 24-08-2012 10:19am

Hey MagicRon, hi Guys,

Morning! As long as all other conditions attached to your third party extension are adhered to there's no requirement for the vehicle to be insured.

These conditions are:

This extension allows you (the policyholder) to drive any other private car which you do not own or have not hired or leased. The vehicle can't be owned by your employer or hired to them under a hire-purchase or lease agreement. This only covers private passenger vehicles and does not include vans, car-vans, jeep-type vehicles with no seats in the back or vans adapted to carry passengers.

You must also;
Hold a full European Union (EU) licence
The use of the vehicle must be covered in the Certificate of Insurance Cover must not be provided for you on that vehicle by any other insurance company You must have the vehicle owners permission to drive the vehicle The vehicle must be in a road worthy condition You still have the insured vehicle and it is not damaged beyond cost effective repair.
The extension only applies in the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland, the UK and the Channel Islands
Note: there are other legal considerations if you are driving in UK, as the owner of the vehicle is obliged to insure the vehicle due to Continuous Insurance Enforcement ( http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Motorinsurance/DG_186696?CID=Continuous_Insurance&PLA=DM&CRE=Furl
).

I hope that clears it up for you - if you've any other questions please let me know!

Cheers

Philip

peteb2 · 24-08-2012 1:46pm

hucklebuck wrote: »

Did you not see the OPs post that a member of Liberty would not give it to her in writing, so either:

A) the staff member was not sure and did not give it in writing in case she was wrong OR
the staff member does not know the policy or they would have referred the OP to her policy.

Also that is a very restrictive wording

* You must have a full EU licence
* Unbeknown to yourself you could have bought a car which was deemed BER
* Does the insured have to bring the car to ensure it is roadworthy before they drive it?

I did. I chose to answer the question that asked as opposed to commenting on some one else's customer service as I know nothing of it and neither do you.

Please! Its's as restrictive as all other insurers:
* You must have a full EU licence - Other insures won't give it to driver under 25 or those with a provision licence these days.
* Unbeknown to yourself you could have bought a car which was deemed BER - obligation on the purchaser to have a bit more common sense, they could have purchased a stolen vehicle and not have legal title to the vehicle and therefore no insurable interest if they bought a vehicle.
* Does the insured have to bring the car to ensure it is roadworthy before they drive it? its a condition of most policies that the vehicle is roadworthy.

Also lets not lose track of the spirit of what Driving Other Cars is supposed to cover. Its meant for the eventuality where you have to jump into another car to use it incidentally. Its not meant for the continued use of another vehicle. Its not meant for you to buy a vehicle, choose not to insure it and instead use your DOC extension which your last two examples seem to lean towards.

Not forgetting the fact that if you have a vehicle parked in a public place it requires cover under the road traffic act which DOC will never provide - it only covers you whilst driving!

MagicRon · 27-08-2012 12:15pm

Liberty Insurance: Philip wrote: »

Hey MagicRon, hi Guys,

Morning! As long as all other conditions attached to your third party extension are adhered to there's no requirement for the vehicle to be insured.

These conditions are:

This extension allows you (the policyholder) to drive any other private car which you do not own or have not hired or leased. The vehicle can't be owned by your employer or hired to them under a hire-purchase or lease agreement. This only covers private passenger vehicles and does not include vans, car-vans, jeep-type vehicles with no seats in the back or vans adapted to carry passengers.

You must also;
Hold a full European Union (EU) licence
The use of the vehicle must be covered in the Certificate of Insurance Cover must not be provided for you on that vehicle by any other insurance company You must have the vehicle owners permission to drive the vehicle The vehicle must be in a road worthy condition You still have the insured vehicle and it is not damaged beyond cost effective repair.
The extension only applies in the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland, the UK and the Channel Islands
Note: there are other legal considerations if you are driving in UK, as the owner of the vehicle is obliged to insure the vehicle due to Continuous Insurance Enforcement ( http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Motorinsurance/DG_186696?CID=Continuous_Insurance&PLA=DM&CRE=Furl
).

I hope that clears it up for you - if you've any other questions please let me know!

Cheers

Philip

Thank you.

hucklebuck · 27-08-2012 12:47pm

peteb2 wrote: »

I did. I chose to answer the question that asked as opposed to commenting on some one else's customer service as I know nothing of it and neither do you.

Please! Its's as restrictive as all other insurers:
* You must have a full EU licence - Other insures won't give it to driver under 25 or those with a provision licence these days.
* Unbeknown to yourself you could have bought a car which was deemed BER - obligation on the purchaser to have a bit more common sense, they could have purchased a stolen vehicle and not have legal title to the vehicle and therefore no insurable interest if they bought a vehicle.
* Does the insured have to bring the car to ensure it is roadworthy before they drive it? its a condition of most policies that the vehicle is roadworthy.

Also lets not lose track of the spirit of what Driving Other Cars is supposed to cover. Its meant for the eventuality where you have to jump into another car to use it incidentally. Its not meant for the continued use of another vehicle. Its not meant for you to buy a vehicle, choose not to insure it and instead use your DOC extension which your last two examples seem to lean towards.

Not forgetting the fact that if you have a vehicle parked in a public place it requires cover under the road traffic act which DOC will never provide - it only covers you whilst driving!

Firstly, I am a broker with a Liberty agency.

Secondly, it is more restrictive than other insurers. Axa, Allianz and Zurich don't restrict DOC to Full Licence holders, Axa give comprehensive cover up to a certain vehicle type, a lot of Allianz policies also do this.

In relation to BER vehicles, while they are meant to be scrapped some garages repair them and sell them on. How do you know a vehicle you buy privately has not been deemed BER if you buy it from a garage or an individual?

BER just means it is cheaper to scrap than repair, you could have a car worth €1300 and both doors got damaged and the insurer deems it BER but a garage/salvager could fix it cheaply and sell it on.

Sure traditionally DOC is for emergencies however some insurers offer comprehensive and all exclude vehicles owned by you so your example is invalid.

DOC which is not Comprehensive provides RTA cover, which is the statutory minimum cover and provides liability to third party and/ or third party property.

peteb2 · 27-08-2012 5:27pm

I'm not getting into tit for tat. But AXA don't provde it for under 25's or those with a provisional licence. I'm aware Allianz do it comprehensively on their taxi policies. And Chartis do it on mine. And I'm a broker that doesn't have a Liberty agency.

hucklebuck · 27-08-2012 6:17pm

In relation to Axa there is no restriction in their policy wording stating they restrict young drivers or provisional licence holders. It could be on their certs but that would be unusual.

By the by I don't want to get into it tit for tat either, just looking to help the OP and back up my earlier comments about restrictive wordings.

dingus12 · 31-01-2015 2:51am

Just digging this up as most questions have been answer'd, I have a liberty insurance policy which had the third party exstension, my question is, am I coverd to drive my fathers Irish register'd car in Northern Ireland if it does not have an active insurance policy on it by the owner? I may be coverd while I'm driving it, but if I park it in Northern Ireland , is it liable to be siezed as it's uninsured in a public place while I'm not in it, or does that just apply to uk register'd cars?

Liberty Insurance: Una · 03-02-2015 1:52pm

Hi dingus12

We are looking into this query for you. We'll get back to you as soon possible.

Una

dingus12 wrote: »

Just digging this up as most questions have been answer'd, I have a liberty insurance policy which had the third party exstension, my question is, am I coverd to drive my fathers Irish register'd car in Northern Ireland if it does not have an active insurance policy on it by the owner? I may be coverd while I'm driving it, but if I park it in Northern Ireland , is it liable to be siezed as it's uninsured in a public place while I'm not in it, or does that just apply to uk register'd cars?

Liberty Insurance: Una · 03-02-2015 4:35pm

Hi dingus12,

The Third Party Extension allows you to drive any other private car which you do not own or have not hired or leased. The vehicle cannot be owned by your employer or hired to them under a hire-purchase or lease agreement. This only coveres private passenger vehicles and does not include vans, car-vans, jeep-type vehicles with no seats in the back or vans adapted to carry passengers.
The fill list of terms and conditions are available in your policy booklet.

The extension applies in the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland, the UK and the Channel Islands, if your certificate of insurance states that you have this cover. There are no restrictions on the vehicle having to be a ROI registration number.

Please note there are other legal considerations if you are driving a car in the UK, as the owner of the vehicle is obliged to insure the vehicle at all times. See the following link for more details.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Motorinsurance/DG_186696?CID=Continuous_Insurance&PLA=DM&CRE=Furl

I hope this helps, if you need any more information PM me your details.

Thanks

Una

Liberty Insurance: Una wrote: »

Hi dingus12

We are looking into this query for you. We'll get back to you as soon possible.

Una

dingus12 wrote: »

Just digging this up as most questions have been answer'd, I have a liberty insurance policy which had the third party exstension, my question is, am I coverd to drive my fathers Irish register'd car in Northern Ireland if it does not have an active insurance policy on it by the owner? I may be coverd while I'm driving it, but if I park it in Northern Ireland , is it liable to be siezed as it's uninsured in a public place while I'm not in it, or does that just apply to uk register'd cars?

dingus12 · 05-02-2015 7:38am

My question id kind of answered, however, as I understand it, it's pretty clear that a UK registered car, IN the UK must be insured or sorn'd by it's registered keeper/owner,

However, does an Irish registered car, with an Irish citizen/owner on the log book, need to insure the car before it's driven by another person using the third party extension IN the UK?

what I'm really asking is, does the continuous insurance enforcement rule apply to cars not registered in the uk?

If not, am I legally cover'd to drive my fathers uninsured car in NI using my third party extension, as I am in ROI.

Liberty Insurance: Sean · 05-02-2015 11:16am

Hi dingus12,

As previously advised this extension applies in the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland, the UK and the Channel Islands, if your certificate of Insurance states that you have this cover. There are no restrictions on the vehicle having a ROI registration number. However we are unable to provide advice in relation to vehicle regulations and we recommend that you contact Driver & Vehicle Agency Northern Ireland (DVANI) to answer this element of your Query.

Sean

Driving third party - other car need insurance?

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