Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Metric Speed Signs

Options
  • 02-08-2004 1:40am
    #1
    rcunning03
    Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭


    Does anybody know when speed signs in km/h will happen? The last I heard was September but I can't see it happening in one month.


«1

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    parsi
    Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    I believe (per ie.general) that this has been quietly put back to December..of course mr "i am the man" brennan won't tell us this....

    however judging by my travels this weekend most people seem to think that 50mph is the national limit if not 41mph or 45mph - thisapplies particularly to main roads such as "Kilkenny - Carlow" or "Carlow - next big city"

    BIG HINT - if there is a queue behine you it means they want to go faster than you ya muppet....


  • Options
    #3
    rcunning03
    Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭rcunning03


    I think it was orignally scheldued for 1993 or thereabouts but they kept extending the deadline. I can't see it happening this year as they only get back from holidays in October. Thank God Ancient Eygpt didn't have Fianna Fail, otherwise we'd still be in the planning process for the Pyramids.


  • Options
    #4
    George_h
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25 ✭George_h


    And as far as I know, there is no EU directive to actually force all the signs to be changed into kmh. Dual Signs are fine as far as the EU is concerned.

    As for lines of traffic, a lot of people seem to think that 60mph is too slow in a line of traffic. There's always one muppet prepared to overtake a stream of traffic just to get 5 extra minutes of their journey. Must account for all the bank holiday accidents. Why not just leave earlier, relax and enjoy the trip.

    There's enough carnage on the road.


  • Options
    #5
    Tarabuses
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Tarabuses


    But George, we do not have dual signs for speed limits.


  • Options
    #6
    parsi
    Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    George_h wrote:
    And as far as I know, there is no EU directive to actually force all the signs to be changed into kmh. Dual Signs are fine as far as the EU is concerned.

    As for lines of traffic, a lot of people seem to think that 60mph is too slow in a line of traffic. There's always one muppet prepared to overtake a stream of traffic just to get 5 extra minutes of their journey. Must account for all the bank holiday accidents. Why not just leave earlier, relax and enjoy the trip.

    There's enough carnage on the road.

    Indeed - but if you spend a long time behind someone doing 10mph less than the limit then you do waste a lot of time - also seems that these folks go at their 50mph irrespective of the posted limits so they are too slow on the main road and they speed through the 30 zones...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    Many drivers just make their own rules.

    I was passed (on the inside, in a bus lane) on the N32 by one driver doing 55 in a 40 zone. When I got to the M50, he was in the outside lane holding everyone up, still doing 55.......

    Why not install satellite tracking in all cars? That way speed limits could be constantly enforced, tolls collected and stolen cars traced. There would be no need for new signs as the cars would be fed the appropriate limit by satellite & automatically limited according to best-practice for the conditions.


  • Options
    #8
    PBC_1966
    Closed Accounts Posts: 310 ✭✭PBC_1966


    rcunning03 wrote:
    Does anybody know when speed signs in km/h will happen? The last I heard was September but I can't see it happening in one month.

    And did anybody ask you -- the Irish public -- whether you wanted to change or not? Nope, didn't think so. :(

    Once you've switched to all-metric signs you can bet that our bunch here in the U.K. will then start using that to try to force it on us as well: "Look, even Ireland has changed' we're the only EU country using miles now." :mad:


  • Options
    #9
    sliabh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭sliabh


    PBC_1966 wrote:
    And did anybody ask you -- the Irish public -- whether you wanted to change or not? Nope, didn't think so. :(
    Actually I am all for it. Metric is considerably better and soooo much easier to understand. I was in the UK a few weeks ago when this came up for discussion. I held a quick straw poll and only half of those present (all good middle Englanders) could tell me how many yards there are in a mile (1760). It seems funny that they are so attached to a system that they don't even understand! :-)
    PBC_1966 wrote:
    Once you've switched to all-metric signs you can bet that our bunch here in the U.K. will then start using that to try to force it on us as well: "Look, even Ireland has changed' we're the only EU country using miles now." :mad:

    There is an attempt to restart the conversion campaign over there already. I was reading about it a few weeks ago [http://news.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=783582004].

    The former Conservative Chancellor Lord Howe was the spokesman. He was saying that the campaign had grounded around 1979 and today to many people just assume it's an EU thing. But as he said everyone else other than the US is using metric. And the change is something that was first recommended by a UK parliamentary committee in 1862!!!


  • Options
    #10
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    cyclopath2001 wrote:
    Why not install satellite tracking in all cars? That way speed limits could be constantly enforced, tolls collected and stolen cars traced. There would be no need for new signs as the cars would be fed the appropriate limit by satellite & automatically limited according to best-practice for the conditions.
    Because people have the right to make choices. As a voluntary measure, incurring tax relief and lower insurance, it would be great, but to force it on people, nope. Not in a million years.


  • Options
    #11
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    PBC_1966 wrote:
    And did anybody ask you -- the Irish public -- whether you wanted to change or not? Nope, didn't think so. :(

    Once you've switched to all-metric signs you can bet that our bunch here in the U.K. will then start using that to try to force it on us as well: "Look, even Ireland has changed' we're the only EU country using miles now." :mad:
    What's the problem with changing to metric?

    There is not one good reason why Imperial is a better system of measures than metric.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    PBC_1966
    Closed Accounts Posts: 310 ✭✭PBC_1966


    The problem with metrication is that many of us in the U.K. don't want it, and are fed up with the draconian way that the government has forced it upon us. Sure, there are people who don't know there are 1760 yards in a mile, but you'll also find those who don't know how many milliliters in a liter. That's just down to education.

    Why should the taxpayer be stuck with the bill for converting thousands of roadsigns to metric when the majority of people don't want the conversion to begin with?

    If anything, there is an increasing determination to fight the bureaucrats on this one. Considering the way our government has bullied and intimidated shopkeeepers over metric, in many cases using an approach worthy of any police-state, that's not really surprising.

    Have a look at these links for some background:

    http://www.metricmartyrs.sageweb.co.uk/aboutus.htm

    http://www.bwmaonline.com/


  • Options
    #13
    sliabh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭sliabh


    Why you may not want it you can't come up with a good reason why not to change either, other than "this is the way we always did it". Which is a pretty daft reason.

    And there are very good reasons for the Government pushing the change. It's costly and confusing having two systems of units. Or do you think that the Government has nothing better to do with it's time than pissing off voters for the fun of it. They are pushing metric because it makes sense


  • Options
    #14
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    PBC_1966 wrote:
    The problem with metrication is that many of us in the U.K. don't want it, and are fed up with the draconian way that the government has forced it upon us. Sure, there are people who don't know there are 1760 yards in a mile, but you'll also find those who don't know how many milliliters in a liter. That's just down to education.
    The education is mostly irrelevant, except that there's more to metrication than the numbers. Once people know what the prefixes stand for, you know how many of what is in what.
    That is, we know a kilometre is 1000 metres, that a centimetre is one hundreth of a metre, a millimetre is one thousandth of a metre.

    Take a new metric unit. Let's call it the utafa. God knows what an utafa is, or how long it is. But, we do know that a kiloutafa is 1000 utafas, a deciutafa is one tenth of an utafa and a megautafa is 1 million utafas.

    Since all units, no matter what you're measuring, stick to the same standards, then you know that the same rules apply.

    I've done this before, but record how long it takes you to solve the following two sums without a calculator, and you'll see why metric can only be good.

    1) Convert 23.75 kilometres to metres
    2) Convert 23.75 miles to yards.

    :)


  • Options
    #15
    Yoda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭Yoda


    A fine example. 23.75 kilometres is 23,750 metres, and 23.75 miles is 41,799.99983375 yards....


  • Options
    #16
    PBC_1966
    Closed Accounts Posts: 310 ✭✭PBC_1966


    sliabh wrote:
    Why you may not want it you can't come up with a good reason why not to change either

    I thought I just gave a perfectly good reason: It will cost the taxpayer a lot of money for something that the majority of people see no need for.
    It's costly and confusing having two systems of units.
    Agreed. So why was there any need to start messing around with units in the first place by forcing metric on everybody?

    Yoda wrote:
    and 23.75 miles is 41,799.99983375 yards....
    You need to get a better calculator. 23.75 miles is 41,800 yards -- exactly.


  • Options
    #17
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    PBC_1966 wrote:
    I thought I just gave a perfectly good reason: It will cost the taxpayer a lot of money for something that the majority of people see no need for.
    How do you know that the majority of people see no need for it? It's the people who oppose a change that shout the loudest.
    Agreed. So why was there any need to start messing around with units in the first place by forcing metric on everybody?
    Because the imperial system was conceived by Lords who could afford educated people to do their calculating for them and/or were educated enough to do it themselves. It was a system of control of peasants by keeping them ignorant, and is completely defunct. It's unnecessarily complicated, and difficult for Joe Street to use in terms of how many ounces in a stone, or how many lbs in a tonne. There is no valid case for not dumping it, and forgetting about it.
    You need to get a better calculator. 23.75 miles is 41,800 yards -- exactly.
    Did you bother to time yourself?


  • Options
    #18
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    God be with the metric martyres eh? ;) We've gone this far in metrication -food, drink, area, weight, volume, etc it would be foolish to spoil the effect for a happeneth of tar!

    Mike.


  • Options
    #19
    tribble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭tribble


    cyclopath2001 wrote:

    Why not install satellite tracking in all cars? That way speed limits could be constantly enforced, tolls collected and stolen cars traced. There would be no need for new signs as the cars would be fed the appropriate limit by satellite & automatically limited according to best-practice for the conditions.

    You really want the government tracking you're every movement?
    You feel they can be trusted to secure and not abuse this information?
    (this is not a retorical question).

    tribble


  • Options
    #20
    sliabh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭sliabh


    PBC_1966 wrote:
    I thought I just gave a perfectly good reason: It will cost the taxpayer a lot of money for something that the majority of people see no need for.

    "It's costly and confusing having two systems of units. "

    Agreed. So why was there any need to start messing around with units in the first place by forcing metric on everybody?
    [/b].
    Because the once off cost of the change is less than the ongoing cost of having two systems of units.

    Frankly it's no skin of my nose if you continue to use some obsolete, antiquated system of units from day-to-day (hey, why not use cubits?). Your engineers and scientists will continue to use metric and your companies and citizens will be at a disadvantage when then go out into the rest of the world.


  • Options
    #21
    fjon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭fjon


    Anyway...
    As this change if inevitably going to happen in Ireland, and hopefully before 2005, any cars made for the Irish market will have to have speedos with KM/pH, or dual speedos with KM/pH dominant.
    Does this mean that the MPH clocks will also be changed to KM? I would say this would cause a bit of confusion, especially for those looking to buy a second hand car.
    By the way - this now means there will be cars made only for the Irish market (Right-hand Drive and KM/pH Speedos) - we currently have UK/ Ireland cars.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    GillyS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭GillyS


    Just to let you know my wife picked up her new golf last week and the speedo (and the trip computer) are all in kmh - so its already happening.

    Gilly


  • Options
    #23
    sliabh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭sliabh


    For the most part you can get away with over stickering the existing dials. Provided of course you know exactly what spec they have.

    From a car manufacturer's point of view they already make dials with Km/h on them so its not a problem to ensure that all Irish cars have these. It's not like they have to make a specifically Irish design.

    If you consider the Vauxhall/Opel cars. Its the same car (with a UK/Ireland spec rather than Continental Europe) just different branding for Ireland and it doesn't seem to be a problem for Opel.


  • Options
    #24
    Yoda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭Yoda


    Japan makes cars, and prefers km/h and has right-hand drive.


  • Options
    #25
    PBC_1966
    Closed Accounts Posts: 310 ✭✭PBC_1966


    seamus wrote:
    How do you know that the majority of people see no need for it? It's the people who oppose a change that shout the loudest.
    Maybe it's different in Ireland, but just visit England and ask around. Or go into shops and listen to people trying to work out how big/heavy something is when the packaging shows only metric. Go to the deli counter and observe how many people ask for 4 oz. of ham or 8 oz. of cheese. Ask anybody here how tall he is, or how much he weighs. How many do you think will answer in meters and kilograms?
    Did you bother to time yourself?
    Can't say that I did.

    I'm not anti-metric as such. I use metric every day in my electronics work, but when it comes to measuring carpet or weighing out ingredients for dinner, I use feet & inches, pounds & ounces because they're what we have traditionally used for such things and they are comfortable, easily-visualized quantities. (By the way, not all measurements in engineering work are metric either.)

    Again, maybe Ireland is different, but the thing which has angered people in the U.K. is the draconian way that the authorities have tried to intimidate people and turn them into criminals for refusing to use metric. The Sunderland case linked to above is an excellent example.

    If people want to use metric voluntarily, then fine. But the government has no business trying to force it on people when all parties to the transaction involved want to use the units they have grown-up with and are comfortable with. To quote your comments from a little way up the thread regarding satellite tracking:
    seamus wrote:
    Because people have the right to make choices. As a voluntary measure, incurring tax relief and lower insurance, it would be great, but to force it on people, nope. Not in a million years.
    Do you not believe that the same argument applies?

    Speaking of which.....
    cyclopath2001 wrote:
    Why not install satellite tracking in all cars? That way speed limits could be constantly enforced, tolls collected and stolen cars traced. There would be no need for new signs as the cars would be fed the appropriate limit by satellite & automatically limited according to best-practice for the conditions
    The British govt. has already been kicking this idea around recently. The suggestion was that they would scrap the road tax and cut the tax on fuel, then every vehicle would be fitted with a tracking device and charged based on the distance traveled. The per-mile (or maybe per-kilometer? ;)) fee would vary depending upon the type of road, ranging up to over £1 per mile for the main motorways! :eek:

    Call me cynical, but I think the govt. would also be delighted at the audit trail that would left behind enabling them to track the exact whereabouts of every vehicle at any given moment. It's as much to do with surveillance as with revenue-raising.


  • Options
    #26
    Yoda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭Yoda


    Nations often have bureaus of standards, and according to legislation, it is perfectly reasonable for a government to set mandatory specifications for the units of measure which it considers to be legal for transactions.

    I was raised in the US and remember in 1970 when they told us in school that we were going to switch to the metric system. Alas, it it didn't happen. When I moved to Ireland I set my typesetting defaults to metric and haven't looked back since. After 14 years a lot of Fahrenheit is lost to me. I have a "feeling" for my weight in pounds (not stone, not kg), it is true. But I am happy buying salami in grams, and happy that it's priced that way.


  • Options
    #27
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    PBC_1966 wrote:
    Do you not believe that the same argument applies?
    No. The difference is between individual and national. Forcing limiters on cars is imposing a restriction upon the individual, without the ability to choose. One will always be restricted, and hasn't the option to drive at the speed they wish. Changing to the metric system is imposing a change upon the nation, but at every avenue, choice is still left open - even if the country switches to metric, people can still use imperial - you may have to get your calculator out, but the choice is there.


  • Options
    #28
    Yoda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭Yoda


    I believe that the metric system was already adopted by Ireland, a good while ago. It is simply the implementation that has lagged behind. (Which is stupid, because you wouldn't be complaining if it hadn't.)


  • Options
    #29
    vinnyfitz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭vinnyfitz


    The changeover will happen on or before 1 Jan 2005. Brennan said on the radio recently that it would happen earlier if he could get all car manufacturers to change the speed dials earlier but that it would definitely happen by year end. The tender for sign manufacture was issued many months ago and suggested the new signs would all have to be ready by end August.

    Anyway, they will have to do it soon for safety reasons. Has anyone else noticed how many speed signs have fading ink? For example all the 30mph signs on the Galway ring road are only white now as the red outer rings have faded to nothing. I can only guess they are not replacing or repainiting them 'cos they are waiting for the shiny new 40kph signs instead....

    (Historical note - I'm told the Dept Environment intended to perform this changeover in the '80s once the distance sings had beeen switched to KMs but it was vetoed by the Dept Finance on the basis that it would be too expensive)


  • Options
    #30
    Yoda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭Yoda


    Has the design of the signs been given? I think it would be important for them to state explicitly that the number refers to km/h.

    Your historical note is unsurprising.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,290 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Yoda wrote:
    Has the design of the signs been given? I think it would be important for them to state explicitly that the number refers to km/h.
    If they go for the French design, it has the "km/h"(?) included.


Advertisement