Is Back to Education Allowance worth it?

JohnMc1 · 22-06-2012 12:29pm #1

I was accepted to a course at DIT but now I'm not sure I'll be able to attend because it seems like BTEA eliminates me from just about everything [Grants, RSA, etc] I was thinking of just staying on Jobseekers Allowance for the School year and just warn my instructors I may not be in for their class on signing days.

Anybody else feel that way? Besides still having to sign once a month will there be any drawbacks?

Outkast_IRE · 22-06-2012 12:34pm

JohnMc1 wrote: »

I was accepted to a course at DIT but now I'm not sure I'll be able to attend because it seems like BTEA eliminates me from just about everything [Grants, RSA, etc] I was thinking of just staying on Jobseekers Allowance for the School year and just warn my instructors I may not be in for their class on signing days.

Anybody else feel that way? Besides still having to sign once a month will there be any drawbacks?

Yes your not meant to be on jobseekers and full time education at the same time, if they catch you , you will be in trouble. They do cross check with the colleges to catch people .
Apply for BTEA is the only way to do it, yes it elimates you from a maintaince grant but you may still get your fees paid . BTEA is worth more than the grant anyway in many cases

JohnMc1 · 22-06-2012 12:49pm

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Yes your not meant to be on jobseekers and full time education at the same time, if they catch you , you will be in trouble. They do cross check with the colleges to catch people .
Apply for BTEA is the only way to do it, yes it elimates you from a maintaince grant but you may still get your fees paid . BTEA is worth more than the grant anyway in many cases

Thanks Outkast. Its just seems like BTEA causes more headaches than anything else now.

anfield bound · 22-06-2012 12:59pm

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Thanks Outkast. Its just seems like BTEA causes more headaches than anything else now.

BTEA is handy, get on it. They also give you €300 at the start of the year for books (ha!) and you CAN work a few days aswell if you choose (had this confirmed to me by the social the other day, lots of rumours to the contrary). Also, if you stay on the dole, they will find out very quickly and turf you off the course. You may even be turfed off the dole AND be subject to a fine (I witnessed all these things happen to various people over the past year).

Muir · 22-06-2012 1:34pm

I don't see how your idea makes sense. You wont get any more money on jobseekers than on BTEA, and you still can't get the grant because then you'll get caught out in what you're doing. So you're better off on BTEA, they pay your fees and you get the same money.

annex · 22-06-2012 6:31pm

BTEA is worth more than the grant, you get €300 book allowance (it was €500) and if you are on the BTEA you can get on JA during the summer, I am pretty sure you can't if you are getting the maintenance grant. Its also a weekly payment which is handier IMO. And if you are on the BTEA you still get your fee's paid.
Its dead easy to get onto the BTEA, you just fill out a form, provide evidence you have been accepted to college/uni then you submit a second letter when you start in September and you will get the book allowance around the start of October.

JohnMc1 · 22-06-2012 6:42pm

annex wrote: »

BTEA is worth more than the grant, you get €500 book allowance not €300 and if you are on the BTEA you can get on JA during the summer, I am pretty sure you can't if you are getting the maintenance grant. Its also a weekly payment which is handier IMO. And if you are on the BTEA you still get your fee's paid.
Its dead easy to get onto the BTEA, you just fill out a form, provide evidence you have been accepted to college/uni then you submit a second letter when you start in September and you will get the book allowance around the start of October.

Thanks annex. I guess finding out that I am not eligible for Rent Allowance [I doubt I'll be able to afford an apartment and live without it and only on 188 a week] threw me for a loop. When will I have to apply for BTEA? I received an email from DIT stating that they will be offering me a place in the course. Do I have to wait until the official offer from CAO arrives [and I can accept] before applying?

Muir · 22-06-2012 6:48pm

Why wouldn't you be eligible for rent allowance? You don't lose any other benefits on BTEA, you just can't apply for the grant. If you're already getting rent allowance that wont change. If not you can apply for it, but being on BTEA wont affect your chances of getting it.

annex · 22-06-2012 7:01pm

This is from the citizens information website.

You won’t qualify for Rent Supplement if you:
Are attending full-time education. However, if you are getting a Back to Education Allowance or participating in the Back to Education Programme you may be entitled to the Supplement.

Apply for the BTEA now, best get it out of the way, give them a copy of the email and you can show them the offer when CAO send it to you. Once you get that sorted you can get your RA sorted.

(And you only get €300 book allowance, it was €500 but it was reduced in this years budget :mad: )

JohnMc1 · 22-06-2012 8:33pm

annex wrote: »

This is from the citizens information website.

You won’t qualify for Rent Supplement if you:
Are attending full-time education. However, if you are getting a Back to Education Allowance or participating in the Back to Education Programme you may be entitled to the Supplement.

Apply for the BTEA now, best get it out of the way, give them a copy of the email and you can show them the offer when CAO send it to you. Once you get that sorted you can get your RA sorted.

(And you only get €300 book allowance, it was €500 but it was reduced in this years budget :mad: )

Thanks annex. I'll fill it out over the weekend. I'm on the Tus program atm so most likely I'll have to ask for my release (I'm full of drama)

Tope · 25-06-2012 9:21pm

Just wanted to confirm what was said above - you definitely are allowed to get Rent Allowance while on BTEA, I'm on it myself. There are always rumours going around to the contrary; in fact when I attended a Mature Students open day at DIT last year we were told by the Mature Students officer that we wouldn't be eligible once we were on BTEA, which threw a few of us into panic! But turned out to be totally untrue - if you're eligible for Rent Allowance according to the usual criteria you are absolutely still entitled to it on BTEA.

Andersonisgod · 25-06-2012 11:13pm

Would you have already been having receiving Rent Allowance before applying for BTEA or could you apply for them both at the same time?

[Jackass] · 26-06-2012 12:54pm

The biggest trade off between the Grant and BTEA is that on the Grant, it covers your lump sum fee of about EUR2,000, and then you get about EUR2,000 maintenance paid in 3 or so intallments during the year, which is literally impossible to survive on, but you can work as much as you want and you still have to cover your student contribution, which is about EUR200.

The BTEA allowance means you'll get roughly EUR180 per week, but must save / pay your contribution lump sum etc., which may come to about EUR2,500 over the year, but you get a once off lump sum of EUR300 also.

In my opinion, the BTEA is better as you get regular payments that you can survive on, and focus on your studies, and work a bit too if you can / want to, and even though it's a pain to have to pay the lump sum, you're pretty much supported for your entire degree.

I get the grant and would trade it for the BTEA in a heart beat if I could...

If you try and swindle the system though, you will be caught, as it is checked once going in to college (all your claims etc.), and if there's messing going on, it's possible you could miss out on both and as a result lose your college place / be left with nothing (as they may refuse support if anything is owing and deadline will pass).

Muir · 26-06-2012 1:02pm

[Jackass] wrote: »

The biggest trade off between the Grant and BTEA is that on the Grant, it covers your lump sum fee of about EUR2,000, and then you get about EUR2,000 maintenance paid in 3 or so intallments during the year, which is literally impossible to survive on, but you can work as much as you want and you still have to cover your student contribution, which is about EUR200.

The BTEA allowance means you'll get roughly EUR180 per week, but must save / pay your contribution lump sum etc., which may come to about EUR2,500 over the year, but you get a once off lump sum of EUR300 also.

In my opinion, the BTEA is better as you get regular payments that you can survive on, and focus on your studies, and work a bit too if you can / want to, and even though it's a pain to have to pay the lump sum, you're pretty much supported for your entire degree.

I get the grant and would trade it for the BTEA in a heart beat if I could...

If you try and swindle the system though, you will be caught, as it is checked once going in to college (all your claims etc.), and if there's messing going on, it's possible you could miss out on both and as a result lose your college place / be left with nothing (as they may refuse support if anything is owing and deadline will pass).

You don't need to save to pay your contribution, it's paid for on the BTEA as far as I'm aware. You just don't get any additional grant money.

paperclip2 · 26-06-2012 3:10pm

If you are on BTEA you aren't eligible for the Maintenance portion of the grant. You can have the Student Contribution (in or around €2250) paid for you as long as your gross income in 2011 was at or below €51,380.

To have this paid on your behalf you need to apply for the fee grant to SUSI via http://www.studentfinance.ie

In terms of what will give you most money over the year of your course the BTEA wins out.
Over a month you get just shy of €750 on BTEA and on the absolute maximum rate of grant you would come out with about €660.

Re Rent Allowance and BTEA: According to our local CWO you can't get BTEA and then apply for Rent Allowance. You have to be on RA before taking up a place on a course.

Long Term Louth · 26-06-2012 3:11pm

[Jackass] wrote: »

The biggest trade off between the Grant and BTEA is that on the Grant, it covers your lump sum fee of about EUR2,000, and then you get about EUR2,000 maintenance paid in 3 or so intallments during the year, which is literally impossible to survive on, but you can work as much as you want and you still have to cover your student contribution, which is about EUR200.

The BTEA allowance means you'll get roughly EUR180 per week, but must save / pay your contribution lump sum etc., which may come to about EUR2,500 over the year, but you get a once off lump sum of EUR300 also.

In my opinion, the BTEA is better as you get regular payments that you can survive on, and focus on your studies, and work a bit too if you can / want to, and even though it's a pain to have to pay the lump sum, you're pretty much supported for your entire degree.

I get the grant and would trade it for the BTEA in a heart beat if I could...

If you try and swindle the system though, you will be caught, as it is checked once going in to college (all your claims etc.), and if there's messing going on, it's possible you could miss out on both and as a result lose your college place / be left with nothing (as they may refuse support if anything is owing and deadline will pass).

This info as it stands is incorrect. If you are approved for BTEA, you must complete the grant application also, as this generally entitles those on BTEA to have their registration fees covered.

Tope · 26-06-2012 9:36pm

paperclip2 wrote: »

Re Rent Allowance and BTEA: According to our local CWO you can't get BTEA and then apply for Rent Allowance. You have to be on RA before taking up a place on a course.

I'm not sure if different CWOs have different rules about this but that should not be the case.
I only applied for RA after registering in college and while already on BTEA, and it turned out to be perfectly fine. (Obviously you must meet the usual criteria for eligiblity; renting for at least 6 months, capable of paying rent when you signed the lease, means test, etc.)

I almost didn't bother applying at all as everyone (including the college Mature Student officer) said you had to be already on RA before starting on BTEA. But for some reason I kept checking the facts because I couldn't see the logic of this 'rule'. I wonder how many people are missing out on RA who are entitled to it, because this belief seems very widespread.

Double check with your CWO, or do as I did and call the HSE main office for clarification.
You are absolutely allowed apply for RA while already on BTEA and already registered on your college course.

paperclip2 · 27-06-2012 9:29am

Tope wrote: »

I'm not sure if different CWOs have different rules about this but that should not be the case...

....Double check with your CWO, or do as I did and call the HSE main office for clarification.
You are absolutely allowed apply for RA while already on BTEA and already registered on your college course.

Yeah, it's always seemed to be a ridiculous rule to me too but that's been the interpretation of it in our neck of the woods and they have been quite resistant to any dialogue round it for some reason. :rolleyes: Its mystifying how different CWO's and DSP local offices can have such varying interpretations of the same guidelines.
Also what might have helped you is the level of persistence you used to get the answer you needed.

[Jackass] · 28-06-2012 11:59pm

If you're on the grant and haven't been able to find work in over a year (whilst a student), is it possible to switch to the BTEA payments?

annex · 29-06-2012 12:06am

[Jackass] wrote: »

If you're on the grant and haven't been able to find work in over a year (whilst a student), is it possible to switch to the BTEA payments?

I don't think so. Last time I looked into it you have to be signing on for 9 months (for 3rd level courses) before you qualify.

runswithascript · 29-06-2012 1:51pm

[Jackass] wrote: »

The BTEA allowance means you'll get roughly EUR180 per week, but must save / pay your contribution lump sum etc., which may come to about EUR2,500 over the year, but you get a once off lump sum of EUR300 also.

Don't some people qualify for a grant for the contribution fee?

Muir · 29-06-2012 1:55pm

I don't think you can go onto the BTEA while in college. You need to be signing on 9 months for 3rd level, but also you can't sign on while already attending college, not even in the summer months.

dusf - yes, you can qualify to have the college fees paid, you just wont get any additional grant money if on the BTEA.

fennellryan · 22-07-2012 12:07am

I applied on the SUSI website for the grant - I will be getting Back to Education allowance - but I am currently on Jobseekers Allowance - so my application form says nothing about BTEA - does this mean I won't qualify for the fee grant? When would I need to be applying for the BTEA? It says on the application form that you need proof of registration but I wouldn't have that until September?

Tope · 30-07-2012 1:55pm

fennellryan wrote: »

When would I need to be applying for the BTEA? It says on the application form that you need proof of registration but I wouldn't have that until September?

Fennellryan, what I did last year was drop in my completed BTEA form in August (my local welfare office wouldn't accept it from me any earlier!) so that they could start processing my claim, then as soon as I got my college registration letter in September I dropped that in to complete the process. Got my payment sorted out then straight away.

fennellryan · 23-08-2012 4:43pm

Tope wrote: »

Fennellryan, what I did last year was drop in my completed BTEA form in August (my local welfare office wouldn't accept it from me any earlier!) so that they could start processing my claim, then as soon as I got my college registration letter in September I dropped that in to complete the process. Got my payment sorted out then straight away.

Thanks for that. Were you on Jobseeker's Allowance before getting BTEA? I was told today in the SW office that I have to keep signing on until my application for BTEA it is approved - just wondering how you are supposed to go in and queue up for ages to sign on when you are supposed to be in lectures?!

Maldesu · 23-08-2012 4:50pm

When you are confirmed for BTEA, you switch over from JSB and no longer have to queue. It is paid automatically into your account rather than the Post office.

Inbox · 23-08-2012 6:56pm

paperclip2 wrote: »

If you are on BTEA you aren't eligible for the Maintenance portion of the grant. You can have the Student Contribution (in or around €2250) paid for you as long as your gross income in 2011 was at or below €51,380.

To have this paid on your behalf you need to apply for the fee grant to SUSI via http://www.studentfinance.ie

In terms of what will give you most money over the year of your course the BTEA wins out.
Over a month you get just shy of €750 on BTEA and on the absolute maximum rate of grant you would come out with about €660.

Re Rent Allowance and BTEA: According to our local CWO you can't get BTEA and then apply for Rent Allowance. You have to be on RA before taking up a place on a course.

Oh no I feel sick now after reading that, I could've got my registration fees paid? I was told because I was on btea I get no grant

:(:(

Inbox · 23-08-2012 7:06pm

Is there anyway I claim for last years now?

paperclip2 · 24-08-2012 9:21am

Inbox wrote: »

Is there anyway I claim for last years now?

I don't know to be honest. You could contact SUSI to ask. I've never heard of someone doing that but that's not to say it hasn't happened. SUSI: 0761 08 7874

runswithascript · 24-08-2012 1:38pm

Inbox wrote: »

Oh no I feel sick now after reading that, I could've got my registration fees paid? I was told because I was on btea I get no grant :(:(

As far as I know having your fees paid and the student grant are different.

I know someone who two years ago was able to receive the BTEA (weekly payment the same as unemployment benefit or assistance), fees paid, the college grant (I think it's about 5k over the year but either way less than the BTEA), and legally allowed to work.

These days you can have BTEA or the grant, but I do not think either make you ineligible for free fees, I think you need to get on the phone to the Dept of Education.

paperclip2 · 24-08-2012 2:46pm

dusf wrote: »

As far as I know having your fees paid and the student grant are different.

I know someone who two years ago was able to receive the BTEA (weekly payment the same as unemployment benefit or assistance), fees paid, the college grant (I think it's about 5k over the year but either way less than the BTEA), and legally allowed to work.

The change to the Grant and BTEA rules whereby you get one or the other is fairly recent, about 2/3 years I think. Previously you could get both and if you had started in third level before the change was introduced you weren't affected by it for the remainder of your course. These days for people on OPFP or Disability, they are still allowed keep the DSP payment and get the grant etc.

dusf wrote: »

These days you can have BTEA or the grant, but I do not think either make you ineligible for free fees, I think you need to get on the phone to the Dept of Education.

I think Inbox is talking about the registration fee, not tuition fees. They didn't realise they could apply for the fee grant to cover their registration charge as they thought having BTEA made them ineligible for all grants. The tuition fee would have been paid automatically.

Is Back to Education Allowance worth it?

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