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CIA and fake Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein Videos

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    #2
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    irishconvert wrote: »
    How can anybody trust a word that comes out of these guys mouths?

    One word : WMDs


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    #3
    CoalBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 971 ✭✭✭CoalBucket


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    One word : WMDs

    Is that not three :)

    Everybody knows those videos are fake anyway.

    I mean come on, who uses video in this day and age, it's all digital now !


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    #4
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    CoalBucket wrote: »
    Is that not three :)

    I think an acronym counts as a single "word".....e.g. a four-letter word like "NAMA" or even an ATM "PIN"....it just reads less well when it has no vowels.

    Anyways....back on topic, quick!


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    #5
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    One word : WMDs

    Indeed that "word" always brings back memories of a very uncomfortable looking and sounding Colin Powell attempting to sell the UN Security Council surveillance images of a few 40 gal drums as the WMD`s that Uncle Sam so badly needed Mr Hussein to possess.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #6
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    *groan* US foreign policy makes me imagine a toddler poking at a mains socket with a screwdriver.


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    #7
    northwest100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭northwest100


    I'm shocked. :rolleyes:

    Not really news.

    You can access many CIA declassified documents and CFR articles which describe in great detail their disgusting operations.

    Why is anyone surprised? beats me.

    Saddam Hussein was financed and trained by the CIA, look it up.

    For the sceptics, Go educate yourself on these issues.instead of talking crap about "statism"


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    #8
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    To be honest, the 'plan' was likely one of dozens if not hundreds of ideas storyboarded in planning sessions, and probably didn't get further than a flash of inspiration from someone watching Paris Hilton, a scribbled post-it note and a brief memo.

    In any normal company, one always sits down and comes up with all kinds of crazy ideas that never make it past this point. The ideas exercise is the point, so that you get your mind working to produce the really good ones.

    Intelligence services are no different.


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    #9
    ocokev
    Closed Accounts Posts: 373 ✭✭ocokev


    Can you imagine being cast in the part of OBL, you wouldn't be able to shop anywhere without being reported to the FEDs.


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    #10
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    It says a lot really when the self appointed "Police man" of the world is discussing abusing children to get at their enemies.


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    #11
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    To be honest, the 'plan' was likely one of dozens if not hundreds of ideas storyboarded in planning sessions, and probably didn't get further than a flash of inspiration from someone watching Paris Hilton, a scribbled post-it note and a brief memo.

    In any normal company, one always sits down and comes up with all kinds of crazy ideas that never make it past this point. The ideas exercise is the point, so that you get your mind working to produce the really good ones.

    Intelligence services are no different.

    I would agree with you 100% and would have actually been posting the same thing (you'll always get the occasional oddball/half-joking suggestion) except for the fact that America followed through on two of the ridiculous ones - spreading the aforementioned rumour about WMDs and the subsequent invasion of Iraq.

    The fact that they did these means that rumours above a non-followed-through hair-brained dirty PR stunt is pretty irrelevant, and only goes to show that it's a mindset that anything goes, no matter how objectionable or how fictional, as long as America got its own way.


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    #12
    irishconvert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    northwest100 wrote: »
    I'm shocked. :rolleyes:

    Not really news.

    You can access many CIA declassified documents and CFR articles which describe in great detail their disgusting operations.

    Why is anyone surprised? beats me.

    Saddam Hussein was financed and trained by the CIA, look it up.

    For the sceptics, Go educate yourself on these issues.instead of talking crap about "statism"

    I'm not surprised they do it, I'm surprised it's being reported in mainstream media instead of the usual sources I check which are usually dismissed as crazy conspiracy.


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    #13
    irishconvert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    To be honest, the 'plan' was likely one of dozens if not hundreds of ideas storyboarded in planning sessions, and probably didn't get further than a flash of inspiration from someone watching Paris Hilton, a scribbled post-it note and a brief memo.

    In any normal company, one always sits down and comes up with all kinds of crazy ideas that never make it past this point. The ideas exercise is the point, so that you get your mind working to produce the really good ones.

    Intelligence services are no different.

    It says the actually did make a fake Osama Bin Laden video.


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    #14
    irishconvert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    I would agree with you 100% and would have actually been posting the same thing (you'll always get the occasional oddball/half-joking suggestion) except for the fact that America followed through on two of the ridiculous ones - spreading the aforementioned rumour about WMDs and the subsequent invasion of Iraq.

    The fact that they did these means that rumours above a non-followed-through hair-brained dirty PR stunt is pretty irrelevant, and only goes to show that it's a mindset that anything goes, no matter how objectionable or how fictional, as long as America got its own way.

    Liam, they did follow through on it. They created the Osama Bin Laden video and released it.


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    #15
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    irishconvert wrote: »
    Liam, they did follow through on it. They created the Osama Bin Laden video and released it.

    :o I completely missed that!!!! The OP (and the article) both said they considered making one!

    It was obviously easier to find a kid to abuse than to decide what a WMD should look like for an equivalent video since no-one has any......

    .....oh, hang on.......why didn't they just film in their own nuclear stockpiles?


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    #16
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    irishconvert wrote: »

    I always suspected the Bin Laden videos were fake but for former CIA agents to come out and admit it is astounding. How can anybody trust a word that comes out of these guys mouths?


    So, which Bin Laden videos do you believe were faked?

    Or was it all of them?


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    #17
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    deadtiger wrote: »
    It says a lot really when the self appointed "Police man" of the world is discussing abusing children to get at their enemies.

    I wouldn't call the CIAs role 'policing'. They are there to gather intelligence and spread propaganda. They are supposed to be master manipulators although they do make royal fvck ups. The idea of child abuse videos would be misinformation designed to hurt an enemies support or even lead to leaks as to his whereabouts as he discredits the video, I couldn't care less if they painted Saddam as a paedophile, while he was taking a defamation case the court could have tried him for war crimes while he was there and there'd have been no fake excuses for the invasion. Someone asked how can we trust them now? You should never trust the CIA


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    #18
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    irishconvert wrote: »
    It says the actually did make a fake Osama Bin Laden video.

    So? Osama did orchestrate a terrorist attack on New York. It's fake rumours about WMDs that is bothering (that's an understatement, unacceptable and worthy of war crime) but what does an Osama video do? It'd only be bad if they were pretending he was still alive after they'd killed him so they could continue a 'war on terror' but Osama supporters claim he is alive


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    #19
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Laminations wrote: »
    I wouldn't call the CIAs role 'policing'.

    But they are an arm of the US Government who like to paint themselves as the "Worlds Policeman".


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    #20
    irishconvert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    :o I completely missed that!!!! The OP (and the article) both said they considered making one!

    Did u miss this part?:
    According to the officer, the CIA did make a video apparently showing Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaeda lieutenants sitting beside a campfire quaffing bottles of alcoholic drinks and discussing their sexual trysts with boys. The actors were drawn from "some of us darker-skinned employees".
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    It was obviously easier to find a kid to abuse than to decide what a WMD should look like for an equivalent video since no-one has any......

    .....oh, hang on.......why didn't they just film in their own nuclear stockpiles?

    Good question.


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    #21
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    deadtiger wrote: »
    But they are an arm of the US Government who like to paint themselves as the "Worlds Policeman".

    That doesn't make them the worlds policemen. And I'd actually welcome police forces using misinformation and underhand tactics to flush out criminals, bait cars and the like- as long as it didn't get to the point where the misinformation was worse than the crime


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    #22
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Laminations wrote: »
    So? Osama did orchestrate a terrorist attack on New York.

    But he didn't rape any young children.

    He should be judged on what he did, not on fictional crap.
    Laminations wrote: »
    That doesn't make them the worlds policemen. And I'd actually welcome police forces using misinformation and underhand tactics to flush out criminals, bait cars and the like- as long as it didn't get to the point where the misinformation was worse than the crime

    Far too subjective.

    Firstly, I'm not 100% certain that planning / masterminding flying a plane into a building is worse than raping and abusing children, regardless of how many are killed.

    And secondly, isn't the whole point of the video that those around Bin Laden would view the misinformation as worse than the crime ?


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    #23
    irishconvert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    Laminations wrote: »
    That doesn't make them the worlds policemen. And I'd actually welcome police forces using misinformation and underhand tactics to flush out criminals, bait cars and the like- as long as it didn't get to the point where the misinformation was worse than the crime

    That is a very slippery slope you are on there.


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    #24
    irishconvert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭irishconvert


    Laminations wrote: »
    So? Osama did orchestrate a terrorist attack on New York. It's fake rumours about WMDs that is bothering (that's an understatement, unacceptable and worthy of war crime) but what does an Osama video do? It'd only be bad if they were pretending he was still alive after they'd killed him so they could continue a 'war on terror' but Osama supporters claim he is alive

    Well it makes me question all the other videos which come out from time to time, and result in more and more of our freedoms being taken away to protect us from the "bogeyman"


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    #25
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Bottom line is it's naive to think you can trust an intelligence agency- whether it be israeli Mossad,Russian FSB, Iranian ministry of intelligence or British MI6 -all of them operate with misinformation - the only time it gets serious is when it is used to justify war


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    #26
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    irishconvert wrote: »
    Well it makes me question all the other videos which come out from time to time, and result in more and more of our freedoms being taken away to protect us from the "bogeyman"

    I'm sure that was also an aim, possibly the aim of this leak. To doubt the autheticity of the videos as a whole- people start wondering is Osama dead? Osama may counter with a more authentic video

    Liam as long as someone isn't tried in court for a fake crime then I don't care. Like I said he can always come forward to defend his good name.


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    #27
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Now :
    Laminations wrote: »
    the only time it gets serious is when it is used to justify war

    Earlier :
    Laminations wrote: »
    as long as it didn't get to the point where the misinformation was worse than the crime

    Are you softening your earlier stance ?


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    #28
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Now :



    Earlier :



    Are you softening your earlier stance ?

    Nope. If Osama was tried in court for child rape that'd also be serious (but I think he has greater charges awaiting him, he is Americans most wanted- above all the actual child rapists), but an intelligence agency colouring the opinions , perceptions of the populace with misinformation is just how they work- it's not a CIA-specific issue.


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    #29
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Laminations wrote: »
    That doesn't make them the worlds policemen. And I'd actually welcome police forces using misinformation and underhand tactics to flush out criminals, bait cars and the like- as long as it didn't get to the point where the misinformation was worse than the crime

    Yeah there's nothing like protecting your way of life and values by doing things that are totally against your way of life and values now is there ;)


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    #30
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    deadtiger wrote: »
    Yeah there's nothing like protecting your way of life and values by doing things that are totally against your way of life and values now is there ;)

    I'm not concerned about Osamas reputation, nor am I concerned about the Dons reputation or Cullen and Keoghs reputation or that of any criminal. My 'way of life' is that you can protect yourself from defamation through the courts, if you have acted in a way that prevents you from doing this then that's on your head. There are intelligence agencies in almost every country, many of them engage in misinformation -it is a way of life. I would consider extraordinary rendition much more worrying than this.


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    #31
    Knarr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 117 ✭✭Knarr


    In one of the Osama video's, cant remember which one, a white man in a suit can be seen in the background for a brief time. Ill have a look for it.

    The CIA are criminals and nothing surprises me with them.


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