Current Used Car Values.

Saab Ed · 23-02-2012 11:57pm #1

From an inside view of the motor trade, used car prices are soaring at the moment. Nothing new in demand for post 2008, low tax diesels but it has just gone in to over drive lately and the supply is just not there. The greatest problem of all is that the folks out there with 2008/09/10 cars just aint trading this year. The flip side being that anybody out there looking for car, a high proportion of them are willing to buy an almost used car but wont convert to a new one.

Other strange trends at the moment are the amount of enquires (with me anyway) for used crewcabs and small 3-5 grand vans. Last year you couldnt give away small used vans, it was all larger 3.5 ton vans and the like, stuff that suited distribution. Total turn around this year so far.

Its not going to be a happy ending if, as predicted by the SIMI, that new sales are going to be down and at the same time there's a major supply issue for what is in demand. Expect a much higher amount of UK imports to turn up over here this year. Worringly its going to open the door to the clocked UK car even more as people search out a bargain. Potential buyers will really need to be on their guard as things like this and bad accident repairs become viable again because of the high prices being fetched.

Any other thoughts out there on the state of the market?

L-M · 24-02-2012 12:01am

Donedeal has ****ed up the Car trade and used car prices imo.

marvsins · 24-02-2012 12:09am

Limerick man wrote: »

Donedeal has ****ed up the Car trade and used car prices imo.

Just curious as to why you think this. Can you explain?

L-M · 24-02-2012 12:14am

marvsins wrote: »

Just curious as to why you think this. Can you explain?

John has a 06 Toyota Avensis for sale. John has this car full serviced, checked over, valeted etc. etc. etc. and asks €4,950.

Jimmy has a 06 Avensis that's falling apart, but he gave it a good wash and wants shot of it and asks €4,000.

Mary thinks John is robbing her because she "Saw one on donedeal cheaper"

johnos1984 · 24-02-2012 12:22am

Saab_Ed I pretty much agree with what your saying.

I'm having a bit of trouble finding a good 08/09 diesel. Salespeople have told me they can't get their hands on them and if they could they'd be selling everything they got in at that age.

It therefore means I'm getting good offers on 10/11 reg cars but generally these are just out of my range........except one garage which is eager for business.

I'm also finding that 08 cars from any manufacturer appear to be immune to depreciation..............no garage bar one I was in had an 07 diesel due to the high tax on them.........they all said they can't retail them at all.

It's a strange market at the minute

marvsins · 24-02-2012 12:25am

While I know what you are saying I don't think the blame lays with Donedeal, maybe more the financial times we are in. I know few people who have used it for cars, furniture etc but just for the purpose of a quick sale and no messing about trying to get a certain price.

L-M · 24-02-2012 12:31am

marvsins wrote: »

While I know what you are saying I don't think the blame lays with Donedeal, maybe more the financial times we are in. I know few people who have used it for cars, furniture etc but just for the purpose of a quick sale and no messing about trying to get a certain price.

it's donedeals quick, cheap ads that open the game up to a whole new world. There's no real registration, any Joe Soap can throw up twenty ads, with 20 different names/numbers, all on the same email address within 20 minutes.

Minister Boyce · 24-02-2012 1:02am

On the lookout myself for a motor and Done Deal does have an addictive side. I've rang about a good few cars and 50% of the calls I have come away either feeling suss about the seller or frustated that they have bullsh1ted about how wonderful there car is in the advert and then letting something slip during the phonecall that they 'buy and sell the odd car' and 'thats cash price - no guarantee with that'

Lowest price appears to be king and I can see where some one will jump at buying a lemon that may be a grand cheaper that a similar higher priced model. I have found myself browsing Carzone a lot more recently.

bazz26 · 24-02-2012 1:03am

Got a call from my local BMW dealer there a few weeks ago asking if I would be interested in trading up, they could offer me a very good price on my car due to it's relatively rare high spec and being diesel. I was a bit surprised but politly declined as I am happy with what I have.

How the tides have turned though, not too long ago you could not get a dealer to call you back for love nor money about a car.

For alot of folks though a new car is at the very bottom of their list of needs at the moment unless they are trying to downsize to something cheaper to run. There is little or no consumer confidence out there at the moment and the school teachers in charge upping the standard VAT rate didn't help matters either.

vectra · 24-02-2012 1:35am

johnos1984 wrote: »

Saab_Ed I pretty much agree with what your saying.

I'm having a bit of trouble finding a good 08/09 diesel. Salespeople have told me they can't get their hands on them and if they could they'd be selling everything they got in at that age.

It therefore means I'm getting good offers on 10/11 reg cars but generally these are just out of my range........except one garage which is eager for business.

I'm also finding that 08 cars from any manufacturer appear to be immune to depreciation..............no garage bar one I was in had an 07 diesel due to the high tax on them.........they all said they can't retail them at all.

It's a strange market at the minute

How much would you be willing to pay for a nice '10 reg VERY LOW Kms car ?
:P

@ SAAB ED,
I would trade my car in to any garage that would give me a good deal and would be selling something that would interest me.

yourpics · 24-02-2012 1:38am

johnos1984 wrote: »

Saab_Ed I pretty much agree with what your saying.

I'm having a bit of trouble finding a good 08/09 diesel. Salespeople have told me they can't get their hands on them and if they could they'd be selling everything they got in at that age.

It therefore means I'm getting good offers on 10/11 reg cars but generally these are just out of my range........except one garage which is eager for business.

I'm also finding that 08 cars from any manufacturer appear to be immune to depreciation..............no garage bar one I was in had an 07 diesel due to the high tax on them.........they all said they can't retail them at all.

It's a strange market at the minute

If you do the maths though, there may not be significant savings to be made by buying an 08 low tax car over say an 06.
Example 08 Focus TDCI for 12K with 225 motor tax.
07 Focus TDCI for around 9K with 478 motor tax.
You would have to keep the car 12 years to make a gain on the cheap motor tax.
It is a scam to sell newer cars because if it was really about the environment, cheaper motor tax rates would be available for ALL low emissions cars regardless of age.

Remember that the government probably will increase the motor tax rates further for post 08 cars.

vectra · 24-02-2012 1:49am

yourpics wrote: »

If you do the maths though, there may not be significant savings to be made by buying an 08 low tax car over say an 06.
Example 08 Focus TDCI for 12K with 225 motor tax.
07 Focus TDCI for around 9K with 478 motor tax.
You would have to keep the car 12 years to make a gain on the cheap motor tax.
It is a scam to sell newer cars because if it was really about the environment, cheaper motor tax rates would be available for ALL low emissions cars regardless of age.

Remember that the government probably will increase the motor tax rates further for post 08 cars.

There is a lot more than just road tax,
Mileage
condition
etc. etc.

washman3 · 24-02-2012 1:51am

Limerick man wrote: »

Donedeal has ****ed up the Car trade and used car prices imo.

have to agree withyou on that.!! also not helped by the crazy policy from the government of tinkering with the tax rates.

by the way, can we predict a huge influx of Jap imports again. seem to have gone very quiet during the last few years. is there a reason for this.??

Senna · 24-02-2012 1:59am

If you want to buy a big engined petrol car with all the goodies, its a great time to be buying;)

Voodoomelon · 24-02-2012 2:41am

I detest Donedeal.
Whereas the reality may not reflect it, in my view it has a terrible image, a terrible interface, a lack of credibility and professionalism and it reeks of scammers, boggers and skangers. Even nice cars are just f****d up on it with little thought and little effort as it costs little to nothing.

Say what you like about carzone, a lot more people make the effort with their ads; trawling through Donedeal is like looking at primary school homework.

In regards the second hand market, there has never been better value in big petrols. Great to see.

yourpics · 24-02-2012 2:53am

vectra wrote: »

There is a lot more than just road tax,
Mileage
condition
etc. etc.

Yes I agree, my example is if you are in the market for an 07 or 08 car and you find 2 very similiar cars.
It is just an example and it doesn't work in every case.

Senna · 24-02-2012 3:11am

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Donedeal......., a terrible interface,

Agreed, its just a pity they wont make an effort to improve it. They added the bear minimum to the car search function, but it could be improved with only very little changes.
Unfortunately by keeping the price of an advert very low, it does attract the morons who think..

03 ford
nice car, 87k tax and tested

...is an acceptable level of information to give. But you can use that as a filter, if its an advert like that, i wouldn't even want to see the car.

tinofapples · 24-02-2012 3:30am

Limerick man wrote: »

John has a 06 Toyota Avensis for sale. John has this car full serviced, checked over, valeted etc. etc. etc. and asks €4,950.

Jimmy has a 06 Avensis that's falling apart, but he gave it a good wash and wants shot of it and asks €4,000.

Mary thinks John is robbing her because she "Saw one on donedeal cheaper"

I would have to disagree. Choice is good for the consumer and donedeal offers "Mary" a huge window for shopping and offers "John" & "Jimmy" a huge potential market. You put a properly priced and worded ad up on donedeal and see how many views you have within 12 hours. You'd have the car sitting alongside on the driveway a very very long time to achieve the same number of views.

vectra · 24-02-2012 8:24am

yourpics wrote: »

Yes I agree, my example is if you are in the market for an 07 or 08 car and you find 2 very similiar cars.
It is just an example and it doesn't work in every case.

Agreed but there is still a natural difference in valuation between a '07 model and a '08, so if one has the urge for a '08 and the funding,why go for a ;07 just because it is cheaper?
That being the logic why not buy a '98 low mileage car then?

Gumbo · 24-02-2012 9:38am

Isint this why some main delaers are advertising, looking to buy your car?
Joe Duffy BMW have been running an ad all week in the papers looking for under 5 year old cars with less than 100k (km) on them.

I rang about my E90 318d MSport, 2007 with 52,000KM and full history and he wanted to view it straight away. I thought, maybe its only against a trade in or similar and he said no, we will buy straight out if its what we want.

pcardin · 24-02-2012 11:18am

Lol this Irish salutation to all the problems - everyone else is to blame bar themselves. How is this DoneDeal fault? It's an open marketplace where everyone sells anything they want and asks any money they want. It's your own job to find out that Avensis in perfect order but slightly dearer is a better buy than Avensis that is cheaper but falling appart. :pac:

dgt · 24-02-2012 11:30am

tinofapples wrote: »

I would have to disagree. Choice is good for the consumer and donedeal offers "Mary" a huge window for shopping and offers "John" & "Jimmy" a huge potential market. You put a properly priced and worded ad up on donedeal and see how many views you have within 12 hours. You'd have the car sitting alongside on the driveway a very very long time to achieve the same number of views.

Totally agree, a properly worded ad does wonders. Personally I couldn't give a rats ass how its worded (the worse the better, better chance of a bargain/complete lemmon) but a lot of people think otherwise.

When selling my old car, I had the ad up on donedeal with appropiate photos, appropiate information and the right wording. The phone was hopping mad and I sold the car in under 2 hours! :eek:

L-M · 24-02-2012 12:31pm

tinofapples wrote: »

I would have to disagree. Choice is good for the consumer and donedeal offers "Mary" a huge window for shopping and offers "John" & "Jimmy" a huge potential market. You put a properly priced and worded ad up on donedeal and see how many views you have within 12 hours. You'd have the car sitting alongside on the driveway a very very long time to achieve the same number of views.

You're missing the point. it's about the quality of the car, not the quality of the ad.

i've travelled far and wide to see "minters, not a mark on her" cars. i went to see a Golf in Dublin, and literally as i got within about 15 feet of the car i turned around and walked away.

ShadowHearth · 24-02-2012 12:45pm

Looks like there are only bargonomics and post 08 diesels in demand.

Jap imports are gone

.

Did Jap car enthusiasts just gave up on it and can't afford it anymore?

Henry Ford III · 24-02-2012 12:53pm

I'll be selling a low miles, mid 2011 reg, tax band A diesel, with a pretty decent spec. and a manufacturers warrranty shortly enough.

Can I expect to get a high price for it?

166man · 24-02-2012 1:11pm

yourpics wrote: »

If you do the maths though, there may not be significant savings to be made by buying an 08 low tax car over say an 06.
Example 08 Focus TDCI for 12K with 225 motor tax.
07 Focus TDCI for around 9K with 478 motor tax.
You would have to keep the car 12 years to make a gain on the cheap motor tax.
It is a scam to sell newer cars because if it was really about the environment, cheaper motor tax rates would be available for ALL low emissions cars regardless of age.

Remember that the government probably will increase the motor tax rates further for post 08 cars.

This is something that many posters seem to get hung up on on this forum re the tax rates. There is a reason that the '08 is priced more and that's because that's what the market will pay. It wouldn't really be 12 years to gain from cheaper tax, because assuming you keep the car for the three years, the '08 will still be worth more in 3 years time, and easier to sell on for much the same reasons now.

The difference will of course probably be smaller but still. The '08 Focus you buy for 12k now in three years time will be worth more than the '07 Focus, so as said it isn't really 12 years or so.

24-02-2012 1:34pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I'll be selling a low miles, mid 2011 reg, tax band A diesel, with a pretty decent spec. and a manufacturers warrranty shortly enough.

Can I expect to get a high price for it?

Maybe, only problem being many folks will happily pay a premium to buy similar from a dealer when there is little or no value in that premium for them. That's if you are referring to a private sale.

bazz26 · 24-02-2012 4:29pm

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Looks like there are only bargonomics and post 08 diesels in demand.

Jap imports are gone .

Did Jap car enthusiasts just gave up on it and can't afford it anymore?

The currency exchange rate, high Co2 ratings meaning crazy VRT and motor tax have killed most grey imports and performance cars off in this country. Post 08 cars like the Mazda RX-8, Impreza WRX, Evo X, Civic Type-R ,etc are non existant in this country.

lifer_sean · 24-02-2012 4:56pm

yourpics wrote: »

Example 08 Focus TDCI for 12K with 225 motor tax.
07 Focus TDCI for around 9K with 478 motor tax.

Your prices are a bit suspect !

I'd sell you a 08 Focus TDCi "for around 9K" with 160 motor tax !!!

What happens in say 5 years time, when the 07's and 08's are heading towards bangernomics ? If a 08 diesel is then (say) 2000 euro with the low tax, why would you pay anything much at all for an 07 ? I expect the demise of the 07 car to get worse as the tax band delta starts to become a bigger percentage of the car's value.

24-02-2012 5:00pm

.... I expect motor tax rates for 08 cars on to increase.

ongarite · 24-02-2012 5:28pm

RoverJames wrote: »

.... I expect motor tax rates for 08 cars on to increase.

Same here, its already been hinted at for this years budget.
I expect a substantial increase.

vectra · 24-02-2012 5:36pm

RoverJames wrote: »

.... I expect motor tax rates for 08 cars on to increase.

They did, were you asleep for budget 2012. :P

24-02-2012 5:43pm

..... BIG increases expected

Ricardo G · 24-02-2012 5:55pm

kceire wrote: »

Isint this why some main delaers are advertising, looking to buy your car?
Joe Duffy BMW have been running an ad all week in the papers looking for under 5 year old cars with less than 100k (km) on them.

I rang about my E90 318d MSport, 2007 with 52,000KM and full history and he wanted to view it straight away. I thought, maybe its only against a trade in or similar and he said no, we will buy straight out if its what we want.

This is merely a ploy to get you in the door tbh, they'll first give you a shocking price for your own car or get you to trade up !! There is no shortage of used cars especially Audi/BMW/Merc's etc around the country with less than 100km's given that these were the most popular cars sold during 06/07/08.
As for Donedeal, yes their is some rubbish for sale but thats not a bad thing either, its a bargaining tool when buying but crap when selling

vectra · 24-02-2012 7:18pm

RoverJames wrote: »

..... BIG increases expected

Who said?

C Eng · 24-02-2012 7:24pm

vectra wrote: »

Who said?

It's not always what they say in the budget. It's the slow drip of information that follows the few days after, but I do remember after Budget 2011 they strongly suggested it was going to be targeted this time round

Voodoomelon · 25-02-2012 2:21am

Defo, they'll do it incrementally. So they've increased the 08+ rates by 60% odd, next time they'll increase the same rates by the same percent and so on and so forth.

yourpics · 25-02-2012 2:57am

vectra wrote: »

Agreed but there is still a natural difference in valuation between a '07 model and a '08, so if one has the urge for a '08 and the funding,why go for a ;07 just because it is cheaper?
That being the logic why not buy a '98 low mileage car then?

Good idea, might buy an older car.

johnos1984 · 25-02-2012 3:01am

vectra wrote: »

Agreed but there is still a natural difference in valuation between a '07 model and a '08, so if one has the urge for a '08 and the funding,why go for a ;07 just because it is cheaper?

Because 1 or 2 years tax can outweigh the savings if everything else is equal

The price difference isn't as big as people think........high price = high trade in price..................low price=low trade in price

As said earlier I've been looking and I haven't based my search on age but the tax difference isn't the issue.....it's finding a good used car with genuine mileage is the problem.

I've been searching and my mechanic has inspected 3 well minded* low mileage* cars this week.

Two were clocked and one was crashed badly previously :rolleyes:

lomb · 25-02-2012 8:22am

Whats a mint never crashed 08 Passat 2l tdi Se UK import worth cash with 75000miles on the clock?

I personally doubt the pubtalk of 08 cars being worth substantially more than 07. Reason is 08 cars arent worth a penny more in the UK than the natural year variation and UK used imports are potentially unlimited so it will always balance the prices here. They are better looked after and driven on better roads with more verifiable history so are naturally better cars if it wasnt for the inconvenience of importing which even that isnt very much as Belfast is just a short spin up the road.

dgt · 25-02-2012 1:43pm

dgt wrote: »

When selling my old car, I had the ad up on donedeal with appropiate photos, appropiate information and the right wording. The phone was hopping mad and I sold the car in under 2 hours! :eek:

Feck, found the ad! :eek:

Here

Pure_Cork · 25-02-2012 2:28pm

Senna wrote: »

If you want to buy a big engined petrol car with all the goodies, its a great time to be buying;)

Yup. I'm on the lookout for a quick petrol engined car. Wouldn't mind getting a nice 325CI. I need to buy fairly quick though so it depends on what's out there.

yourpics · 25-02-2012 4:42pm

lomb wrote: »

Whats a mint never crashed 08 Passat 2l tdi Se UK import worth cash with 75000miles on the clock?

I wouldn't take a Passat for free! Never ending problems with the control module getting wet. Worst thing about it is VW know it is a design fault but won't recall the cars.

http://www.ukpassats.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9412&sid=7a7ed88fca35dd4d85e81c0c7a55d3d3

vectra · 25-02-2012 5:02pm

johnos1984 wrote: »

Because 1 or 2 years tax can outweigh the savings if everything else is equal The price difference isn't as big as people think........high price = high trade in price..................low price=low trade in price

As said earlier I've been looking and I haven't based my search on age but the tax difference isn't the issue.....it's finding a good used car with genuine mileage is the problem.

I've been searching and my mechanic has inspected 3 well minded* low mileage* cars this week.

Two were clocked and one was crashed badly previously :rolleyes:

All very fine but then when changing time comes again you will get a better price for your newer car so therefore making better sense from the off to buy newer.
Which as you say you are finding it hard to find a modern well minded car with low miles?
Save your cash until September and buy mine..
EPM saw it this morning and would vouch for how clean it is :P

johnos1984 · 25-02-2012 5:05pm

vectra wrote: »

All very fine but then when changing time comes again you will get a better price for your newer car so therefore making better sense from the off to buy newer.
Which as you say you are finding it hard to find a modern well minded car with low miles?
Save your cash until September and buy mine..
EPM saw it this morning and would vouch for how clean it is :P

This is true too, although tbh whatever I buy I'll be holding until there is mega miles on it so therefore it will be worth f all anyway.

I think my car purchasing is a little more urgent then September. I've a deal struck for my own car with my mechanic if I buy from him. He has been given a long list of two cars and a budget. And a few week or until my car spits it's dummy to get me some new metal

AugustusMinimus · 25-02-2012 5:07pm

yourpics wrote: »

I wouldn't take a Passat for free! Never ending problems with the control module getting wet. Worst thing about it is VW know it is a design fault but won't recall the cars.

http://www.ukpassats.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9412&sid=7a7ed88fca35dd4d85e81c0c7a55d3d3

Wasn't this also a problem with the previous model ?

yourpics · 25-02-2012 6:32pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Wasn't this also a problem with the previous model ?

Yes, but I have seen the same problem in new model Passats, Superbs and Transporters.

25-02-2012 6:42pm

vectra wrote: »

Who said?

Only saw this now, the motor tax system is due for reform, they'll be going after the low lieing fruit imo, ie modern stuff that's out there in large numbers wit relatively low motor tax.

vectra wrote: »

.........
Save your cash until September and buy mine...........

He'd have to get in line I thought :P

vectra wrote: »

All very fine but then when changing time comes again you will get a better price for your newer car so therefore making better sense from the off to buy newer..............

I wouldn't really agree with that, spend less and the depreciation will be less in most cases. If you are speaking in terms of sense, it's makes more sense to spend less.

Your Toledo for example won't be losing much, if you had bought your Octavia for RRP or close to it you'd have lost quite a bit by September over the two years.

unkel · 25-02-2012 8:13pm

vectra wrote: »

when changing time comes again you will get a better price for your newer car so therefore making better sense from the off to buy newer.

You almost started believing that yourself, didn't ya?

Depreciation is based on the value of the car and the percentage of depreciation goes down over time. So buying a brand new car will give you a double hit.

Example: car is 30k new. Depreciation is 25% in the first year, 20% in the second and then 15% in the third year and 10% in the fourth year

Depreciation year 1 -> 25% of 30k = 7,5k
Depreciation year 2 -> 20% of (30k-7.5k) = 4.5k
Depreciation year 3 -> 15% of (30k - 7.5k - 4.5k) = 2.7k
Depreciation year 4 -> 10% of (30k - 7.5k - 4.5k -2.7k) = 1.5k

Buying new is indeed a very expensive business. Unless of cars you get your new car for half price courtesy of the tax payer

vectra · 25-02-2012 8:58pm

RoverJames wrote: »

Only saw this now, the motor tax system is due for reform, they'll be going after the low lieing fruit imo, ie modern stuff that's out there in large numbers wit relatively low motor tax.

So the tax will jump up simply because it is in YOUR opinion :P

RoverJames wrote: »

He'd have to get in line I thought :P

True..
But a long line can be a lot more secure than a short one.
A very wealthy man once told me to "Always keep my options open"
I never forgot his words of wisdom which have paid off for me on several occasions

RoverJames wrote: »

I wouldn't really agree with that, spend less and the depreciation will be less in most cases. If you are speaking in terms of sense, it's makes more sense to spend less.

Your Toledo for example won't be losing much, if you had bought your Octavia for RRP or close to it you'd have lost quite a bit by September over the two years.

Well
1) Toledo is '01 which is much older and cheaper than was being discussed

2)
Were we discussing the loss from new cars??
I think not but as we are on the matter. Yes. My car would be ideal for someone as the 2 year drop will already been taken.

vectra · 25-02-2012 9:02pm

unkel wrote: »

You almost started believing that yourself, didn't ya?

Depreciation is based on the value of the car and the percentage of depreciation goes down over time. So buying a brand new car will give you a double hit.

Example: car is 30k new. Depreciation is 25% in the first year, 20% in the second and then 15% in the third year and 10% in the fourth year

Depreciation year 1 -> 25% of 30k = 7,5k
Depreciation year 2 -> 20% of (30k-7.5k) = 4.5k
Depreciation year 3 -> 15% of (30k - 7.5k - 4.5k) = 2.7k
Depreciation year 4 -> 10% of (30k - 7.5k - 4.5k -2.7k) = 1.5k

Buying new is indeed a very expensive business. Unless of cars you get your new car for half price courtesy of the tax payer

Again, who was discussing NEW cars?? Unless I am imagining things we were discussing circa '07/'08 models. Not new ones.

Who gets a new car for Half price and how does it become courtesy of the tax payer??

Current Used Car Values.

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