Unable to get Deeds from Solicitor?

Hannaho · 10-12-2013 10:20pm #1

My solicitor has refused to give me my deeds for the last year - now the situation has become urgent as the house is due to go on sale after Christmas. I have a new solicitor who has written four times for the Deeds and not received them. Each time he has written, my old solicitor says he needs more time to get them, or there is a scriveney fee which he is attaching, but which is never attached. Today I emailed him and said I wanted my Deeds sent to my new solicitor immediately, and that I had made a complaint to the Law Society - which I have, just yesterday, but I got no reply.
what else can I do? This is really stressful. How can a solicitor get away with doing this. I don't owe him any money at all and have paid him fully with each dealing I have had with him.

dats_right · 10-12-2013 11:52pm

Has your old solicitor given any specific reason for the delay?

Gertrude2 · 10-12-2013 11:55pm

It seems clear that he's actually lost your deeds and is putting you off in the desperate hope they'll show up.

Wheelnut · 11-12-2013 1:29am

Gertrude2 wrote: »

It seems clear that he's actually lost your deeds and is putting you off in the desperate hope they'll show up.

Let's hope that's all it is, I can't help thinking of a recent case.

Hannaho · 11-12-2013 8:03am

Hi! Thanks to all for your replies.

Yes, I'm thinking of recent cases. I found out last night that the property has not been registered in my name - almost 6 years later. Hugely worried and stressed now!

Does anyone know if the Law Society is any good in these matters, or if they act efficiently?

Any other helpful advice/comment really welcome.

amen · 12-12-2013 4:06pm

How do you check if a property is registered in your name ?

Corkbah · 12-12-2013 4:14pm

Well done on making a formal complaint about the solicitor to the Law Society.

its unlikely you can get the deeds this side of Christmas …. you could in theory goto court and get orders compelling him to give you the deeds - but that requires time and effort (and money if you employ new solicitor to do so) … all it would require - to the best of my knowledge is going before High Court judge requesting an order and giving an outline of issue - once order issued on ex-parte basis you can serve old solicitor with order and wait - failing to comply with the High Court order would have him in breach of High Court orders and possibly face jail for non-compliance.

Solicitor is obviously claiming there are outstanding debt ? the scriveney fee ??? or whatever that is (could be his reason for withholding - not a valid reason in my opinion but nonetheless)

of course - someone with full legal knowledge might say I'm talking outta my a$$ …but I'm only giving my opinion not legal advice.

Keep in touch with Law Society about your complaint …if I was in your position I'd also goto the papers to do a story ….if you feel strongly enough about it they could do a piece about what solicitors are allowed and not allowed to do - so others can learn whats acceptable and whats not.

delop · 13-12-2013 4:20pm

Send an email to say you will be calling in 3 days to collect in person. Then show up to his office with 2 big friends, be polite, and mannerly, and refuse to leave untill he give you what you need ... too easy to ignore emails ...

Corkbah · 13-12-2013 4:30pm

delop wrote: »

Send an email to say you will be calling in 3 days to collect in person. Then show up to his office with 2 big friends, be polite, and mannerly, and refuse to leave untill he give you what you need ... too easy to ignore emails ...

??? WTF …. and what do you expect the two big friends to do ? intimidate ???

not every document a solicitor holds is kept in his/her office … many items are stored in vaults in different locations….so do you , the two BIG friend and the solicitor go for a drive ???

what happens if in three(3) days the solicitor is out of the office ?

delop · 13-12-2013 4:38pm

Corkbah wrote: »

??? WTF …. and what do you expect the two big friends to do ? intimidate ???

not every document a solicitor holds is kept in his/her office … many items are stored in vaults in different locations….so do you , the two BIG friend and the solicitor go for a drive ???

what happens if in three(3) days the solicitor is out of the office ?

I seemed to have offended you somehow, for that I apologize.
I wasnt suggesting what you were inferring , maybe the word 'big' was unsuitable , 2 witnesses would have been better . If he plans to be out of the office, Im sure he will reply to say so, if he doesnt and he is not there when the Op arrives , well... that will tell a different story, and rather than elaborate about what Id be concerned about, we should let the Op play it out himself ...

Corkbah · 13-12-2013 4:54pm

delop wrote: »

I seemed to have offended you somehow, for that I apologize.
I wasnt suggesting what you were inferring , maybe the word 'big' was unsuitable , 2 witnesses would have been better . If he plans to be out of the office, Im sure he will reply to say so, if he doesnt and he is not there when the Op arrives , well... that will tell a different story, and rather than elaborate about what Id be concerned about, we should let the Op play it out himself ...

if you were not suggesting anything other than simply having witnesses then why not put that into your post and why bring two witnesses … would one not be enough.

Yes the word "BIG" is unsuitable as it implied intimidatory tactics.

Ps. I wasn't offended just shocked at the implied nature of the post.

Wheelnut · 13-12-2013 9:08pm

amen wrote: »

How do you check if a property is registered in your name ?

Start your research here:
www.landdirect.ie
You can click through or go direct to this site:
https://www.mypropertytitle.ie/praMap.aspx
When you get to what you want you may have to pay a fee.

Corkbah wrote: »

??? WTF …. and what do you expect the two big friends to do ? intimidate ???

At least he stopped short of recommending Joe Duffy!

Hippo · 15-12-2013 2:14pm

You will have to pay a fee on land direct, and if the property isn't registered land in the first place there will be no relevant information on the map. NB 'unregistered' in this instance doesn't mean your name isn't on the property. Long story.

Hannaho · 29-12-2013 5:34pm

Hi! All,

I still haven't been able to get Deeds from Solicitor - he send me part of the Deeds and the Schedule was incomplete - basically the Deed shows my mother as owner. It doesn't show the sale of half of the property and splitting of the Deed in 2008, leaving me with just one of the dwellings. I have checked in the Registry of Deeds and my name is not registered against the property - it looks like he might have sold the whole property, or he has done something else dodgy with it.

I bought my own private residence in 2009 - and he is refusing to send the deeds of that also. The previous owner's name remains registered against that property.

I am really stressed out about this - and would appreciate any help/advice at all.

Iggy154 · 29-12-2013 6:53pm

You have been scammed. Get down to the Law Society straight away and tell them you want to make a claim on the compensation fund. If that guy had the deeds he would have handed them over when you made a complaint to the Law Society.

Hannaho · 29-12-2013 7:07pm

Hi! Iggy,

What do you think he has done with the Deeds, that's the worrying part for me? Maybe he has just mislaid them, but he could also have taken out mortgages on them, or put them into somebody else's name. Do I have to wait for the Law Society to complete their investigation - it seems to take ages, and they don't seem bothered by the fact that I am going to lose a buyer for my property.

dats_right · 30-12-2013 12:34pm

What does your new solicitor say about the situation and what has he/she advised you to do?

Grolschevik · 30-12-2013 3:12pm

Iggy154 wrote: »

You have been scammed. Get down to the Law Society straight away and tell them you want to make a claim on the compensation fund. If that guy had the deeds he would have handed them over when you made a complaint to the Law Society.

You don't just turn up at the Law Society and demand compensation.

Ring their complaints section first, then you may have to make a written application setting out your side.

Your application will be reviewed internally and the solicitor may be contacted by the relevant committee.

If that contact is unproductive, the case may be referred to the independent Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal, who will ask the solicitor to appear in person to explain himself. Only if they find that you have been materially damaged by the solicitor's actions might you then have a claim on the compensation fund.

It'll take a while. If you're serious about complaining, give the Society a ring next week.

Is your current solicitor in correspondence with your former one, as asked above?

PS: merely emailing in a complaint to their general email address is quite likely insufficient. You need to ring and speak to someone in the complaints section.

Hannaho · 30-12-2013 7:15pm

HI! I've already complained to the Law Society - but there doesn't seem to be much happening.

How can I not have been materially damaged by the loss of my Deeds - I can't sell the properties as I can't prove I own them - and I also have a buyer for one of them. What does it take for me to be considered materially disadvantaged by the solicitor's actions. I paid for the transfer of both properties in my name, but this has not been done.

Grolschevik · 30-12-2013 7:41pm

Hannaho wrote: »

HI! I've already complained to the Law Society - but there doesn't seem to be much happening.

How can I not have been materially damaged by the loss of my Deeds - I can't sell the properties as I can't prove I own them - and I also have a buyer for one of them. What does it take for me to be considered materially disadvantaged by the solicitor's actions. I paid for the transfer of both properties in my name, but this has not been done.

I just outlined what the procedure was. They'll determine if you've been subject to losses.

Ask your new solicitor about the possibility of reconstructing title, on an assumption that the deeds are lost. (Do you know if your former solicitor actually has them and is refusing to hand them over? If so, do you still owe him some money?)

You said that you hadn't yet got a reply to your complaint to the Law Society. If you just emailed the general address, it will probably have become lost in the daily flood of crap that such organisations regularly receive.

You need to phone the complaints section. Specifically ask to be put through to the complaints section. And talk to the person they put you on to.

Hannaho · 30-12-2013 7:51pm

Hi! Grolschevik, thanks for your reply. No I don't owe my solicitor any money at all. He asked for a scrivenery fee of e150 for copying the title deeds before he sent them - a little strange - and I sent him a cheque for this. He is refusing point blank - after a year to send the Title Deeds of both properties - he has sent only half the title deeds of one property and none for the second. Although I paid him to register the property - he didn't do so.

Addle · 30-12-2013 7:56pm

Are you sure they're not in Land Registry pending registration? Aren't original deeds sent to Land Registry and kept there upon registration?

Unable to get Deeds from Solicitor?

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