Car won't start after removing fuel filter pipes

creedp · 22-11-2014 11:50pm #1

Bad day in the DIY garage today! Went to change oil in s-max 2l tdci 2008 and couldnt open the sump nut - which is an 8mm hex - it was like it was welded. I had to stop as the nut was beginning to get damaged. Is this possibly down to the previous guy over tightening maybe because he didn't replace the washer?

Biggest problem is that I went to change the fuel filter and had removed the two pipes to/from filter and only then realised I forgot to get diesel in order to refill filter housing after replacing the paper filter. So I simply put back on pipes and went to start the car. It caught then died and no amount of cranking would get it going again. I flatenned the battery and then jumped it from another car to no avail. Can anyone please advise the best option now given tomorrow is Sunday and I have no car. Is is possible I haven't put back on pipes properly? They both clicked into place but there is a fair bit of movement in the connections. The car manual warns against jump starting by towing as it could damage catalytic converter .. is this a big problem or worth the risk?

Sorry for all the questions but as I said tomorrow is Sunday and I need the car for work on Monday. At least I got the air filter changed!

pablo128 · 22-11-2014 11:53pm

creedp wrote: »

Bad day in the DIY garage today! Went to change oil in s-max 2l tdci 2008 and couldnt open the sump nut - which is an 8mm hex - it was like it was welded. I had to stop as the nut was beginning to get damaged. Is this possibly down to the previous guy over tightening maybe because he didn't replace the washer?

Biggest problem is that I went to change the fuel filter and had removed the two pipes to/from filter and only then realised I forgot to get diesel in order to refill filter housing after replacing the paper filter. So I simply put back on pipes and went to start the car. It caught then died and no amount of cranking would get it going again. I flatenned the battery and then jumped it from another car to no avail. Can anyone please advise the best option now given tomorrow is Sunday and I have no car. Is is possible I haven't put back on pipes properly? They both clicked into place but there is a fair bit of movement in the connections. The car manual warns against jump starting by towing as it could damage catalytic converter .. is this a big problem or worth the risk?

Sorry for all the questions but as I said tomorrow is Sunday and I need the car for work on Monday. At least I got the air filter changed!

Tow away. It's a diesel sure, the cat doesn't matter a fcuk. At this stage it's about all you can do, other than finding a way of priming the fuel system.

PADRAIC.M · 23-11-2014 12:38am

I usually put a suction device on the fuel return to the tank , draw the air from system and then it starts first turn.

Stoolbend · 23-11-2014 12:45am

pablo128 wrote: »

Tow away. It's a diesel sure, the cat doesn't matter a fcuk. At this stage it's about all you can do, other than finding a way of priming the fuel system.

Towing can be bad for the dual mass flywheel.

creedp · 23-11-2014 12:47am

PADRAIC.M wrote: »

I usually put a suction device on the fuel return to the tank , draw the air from system and then it starts first turn.

Problem is I dont have a suction devise and wont be able to get one tomorrow. Must invest in one for the future. Where is best place to get one? By the way when you say you put device on the return to the tank, where do you make this connection?

Tropheus · 23-11-2014 12:50am

Had a similar problem on my Audi Allroad a couple of years ago. It's best to fill the fuel filter before you connect up the pipes, otherwise you're turning the engine over a good few times to get it started. I tried to start the car when the front was up on ramps and it wouldn't budge which in hindsight wasn't a good idea.

I read up that you just need to keep turning it and it will eventually go. I charged the battery well overnight and gave it a go in the morning. After about 20 seconds she started. You need a very well charged battery to get the car started if you have starting problems after a fuel filter change. It's amazing how just being the wrong side of fully charged can impact starting in this situation.

I tried suction on the fuel pipe, but it made no difference.

creedp · 23-11-2014 1:55am

Tropheus wrote: »

Had a similar problem on my Audi Allroad a couple of years ago. It's best to fill the fuel filter before you connect up the pipes, otherwise you're turning the engine over a good few times to get it started. I tried to start the car when the front was up on ramps and it wouldn't budge which in hindsight wasn't a good idea.

I read up that you just need to keep turning it and it will eventually go. I charged the battery well overnight and gave it a go in the morning. After about 20 seconds she started. You need a very well charged battery to get the car started if you have starting problems after a fuel filter change. It's amazing how just being the wrong side of fully charged can impact starting in this situation.

I tried suction on the fuel pipe, but it made no difference.

OK I'll give it a go again in the morning and after that I'll have to risk the DMF and catalytic converter and give it a tow. I wouldn't mind if I actually did change the filter. All I did was remove pipes and replace .. no fuel was spilt

Cheensbo · 23-11-2014 2:26am

Try and get a little hand primer, like this:

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTiRnJNafiXSwrJVUkZisVSirrrckGqcgItAkCl5lKTuqNC187J

The likes of halfords might have one, if not, you'll definitely get one in a motor factors but not sure many (if any) will be open on a sunday,

Where are you based, I have one you can use to prime it up if you're close to me. (Kildare)

creedp · 23-11-2014 12:30pm

Cheensbo wrote: »

Try and get a little hand primer, like this:

The likes of halfords might have one, if not, you'll definitely get one in a motor factors but not sure many (if any) will be open on a sunday,

Where are you based, I have one you can use to prime it up if you're close to me. (Kildare)

Thanks for the offer but Im in north Louth. I've got hold of a local indy near me and he will have a look at it later. Best thing now as I need it for tomorrow. Thanks again.

greasepalm · 23-11-2014 12:50pm

greatest pain the arse fords have had many puts so much stress on starter motor,when pipe is removed fuel is dropped back into tank as dont think they bothered about 1 way valve,sometimes put compressed air into tank to bring fuel upto filter and then reclick back into position,do you have a 12v compressor to try?
those inline hand primers are handy when supple.

creedp · 23-11-2014 8:39pm

greasepalm wrote: »

greatest pain the arse fords have had many puts so much stress on starter motor,when pipe is removed fuel is dropped back into tank as dont think they bothered about 1 way valve,sometimes put compressed air into tank to bring fuel upto filter and then reclick back into position,do you have a 12v compressor to try?
those inline hand primers are handy when supple.

Tried the compressor but it didn't work. Instead I almost succeeded in getting the valve stuck in the anti siphon flap and pulled the rubber cap off the top of it. The mechanic didn't materialise so I tried the towing option. Towed it for a couple of miles and tried it in 3rd gear doing between 30 and 40 mpg (couldn't get tower to go any faster) yet again to no success. So now I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and get it to a garage tomorrow. So much for DIY ..

Nino Brown · 23-11-2014 8:45pm

Probably no help, as you've already tried starting it so many times, but I think I read when I was changing my fuel filter that it's best to turn the ignition on and off several times before attempting to start as the ignition sequence pressurizes the fuel line.

creedp · 23-11-2014 8:55pm

Nino Brown wrote: »

Probably no help, as you've already tried starting it so many times, but I think I read when I was changing my fuel filter that it's best to turn the ignition on and off several times before attempting to start as the ignition sequence pressurizes the fuel line.

Thanks but I've tried it all at this stage except the priming of the fuel pipes. Went to Halfords but they only had a €2 primer that doesnt look up to much. At this stage I've about had it and am resigned to getting the pros to have a look. In any case after this I doubt my other half would want me to go near the car again for a while!

bargainbucket · 23-11-2014 9:11pm

Did you try opening an injector pipe and turning it over with the pipe open until you get fuel to it and then lock it up Iv done this on a few diesel cars and vans before

creedp · 23-11-2014 11:06pm

bargainbucket wrote: »

Did you try opening an injector pipe and turning it over with the pipe open until you get fuel to it and then lock it up Iv done this on a few diesel cars and vans before

No I was worried about doing damage as I'm not familiar with diesel engines and was warned before not to mess with the injectors because of the high pressure fuel system. Having said that I'm probably more likely to have done more damage towing it.

bargainbucket · 23-11-2014 11:19pm

You be only opening the injector pipe you don't have to remove the injector or anything it be worth a shot

Toyotafanboi · 23-11-2014 11:26pm

this happened with my focus diesel. around 20 seconds of constant cranking got it going, it was hairy though. i know that probably wasn't great for the starter but it never gave any trouble.

CJhaughey · 24-11-2014 12:05am

You won't have done any damage towing it, 20 seconds of towing in 2nd gear will suck that fuel through way faster than minutes of cranking it over overheating the starter and sucking the battery dead.

Chimaera · 24-11-2014 12:58am

bargainbucket wrote: »

You be only opening the injector pipe you don't have to remove the injector or anything it be worth a shot

This isn't a good idea on a common rail engine as the fuel pressures are extremely high and you could be seriously injured.

creedp · 24-11-2014 2:01am

CJhaughey wrote: »

You won't have done any damage towing it, 20 seconds of towing in 2nd gear will suck that fuel through way faster than minutes of cranking it over overheating the starter and sucking the battery dead.

What would be the best speed to be towed at for using 2nd gear? Again I have always been told that 3rd gear is best and that's what used today. Would towing the car at 40mpg while engaged in 2nd gear do any harm? Showing my inexperience here but should the car be left constantly in gear or should the clutch be depressed and engaged regularly? Would be useful to know in case I end up having to do this again. Thanks

Waterson · 25-11-2014 1:36pm

Youve probably the problem fixed now, but when Im trying to prime the low pressure system on these TDCi's, I use a home made suction device, or a one man pump operated brake pressure bleeder will do the same thing. Take a clean empty glass jam jar. Drill a 3 mm hole in it and slip a length of clear fuel hose in it. Maybe a foot or two. This is going to be what you will insert into the fuel feed pipe for the filter (ie. the pipe that runs from the tank). Drill a larger hole and put a length of bendy plastic pipe in the same diameter as the round suction pipe of your household vacuum cleaner. I used an old pipe from a pump for inflating camp beds. Then seal the two joins with some putty to make it air tight (JB weld or similar). Attach the vacuum cleaner to the larger pipe, (might need a bit of gaffer tape to make an air tight seal and voila you have a cheap but effective vacuum piep to draw fuel up from the tank. Prime your filter housing with diesel, then attach the device t the bleed nipple and draw the fuel through until it is flowing steadily into the jar. THEN crank her over and watch her fire into life after a few attempts. Never failed.

creedp · 25-11-2014 2:38pm

Waterson wrote: »

Youve probably the problem fixed now, but when Im trying to prime the low pressure system on these TDCi's, I use a home made suction device, or a one man pump operated brake pressure bleeder will do the same thing. Take a clean empty glass jam jar. Drill a 3 mm hole in it and slip a length of clear fuel hose in it. Maybe a foot or two. This is going to be what you will insert into the fuel feed pipe for the filter (ie. the pipe that runs from the tank). Drill a larger hole and put a length of bendy plastic pipe in the same diameter as the round suction pipe of your household vacuum cleaner. I used an old pipe from a pump for inflating camp beds. Then seal the two joins with some putty to make it air tight (JB weld or similar). Attach the vacuum cleaner to the larger pipe, (might need a bit of gaffer tape to make an air tight seal and voila you have a cheap but effective vacuum piep to draw fuel up from the tank. Prime your filter housing with diesel, then attach the device t the bleed nipple and draw the fuel through until it is flowing steadily into the jar. THEN crank her over and watch her fire into life after a few attempts. Never failed.

Sounds like a great use for an old vacumn cleaner I've got lying around. Maybe sometime in the future I'll get up the courage to tackle a fuel filter again but after the hassle of the last couple of days it could be a while yet. By the way if you connected into the return pipe would it pull fuel all the way through the fuel pump? In my case I could see air bubles in the fuel pipe from the filter to the fuel pump so even if I got fuel into the filter would there still be a problem?

I ended up towing the car the garage and they changed the filter and it started up no problem!! I didn't tell them about my amatuer DIY attempts in case I had done some damage!

Waterson · 25-11-2014 4:14pm

Ive never tried it, but I suppose so long as the key was in the RUN position (II) and the fuel regulator solenoid was energised, you might get some through flow...following the directions above should be sufficient though. I hate it when a plan DOESNT come together

Mech1 · 25-11-2014 4:24pm

I ended up towing the car the garage and they changed the filter and it started up no problem!! I didn't tell them about my amatuer DIY attempts in case I had done some damage!

What does that mean?
If you had of done damage where you planning on blaming the garage?

Toyotafanboi · 25-11-2014 6:02pm

Mech1 wrote: »

What does that mean?
If you had of done damage where you planning on blaming the garage?

more like he didn't want to be embarrassed by telling the mechanic he ****ed up a relatively simple task (to those who know) or look as though he was trying to avoid using the mechanic initially and D.I.Y. the job. it was probably mentally easier to just tell the mechanic it broke down and he was clueless.

no offence op. each to their own trade and all. don't be put off DIY'ing though, try again, fail again, fail better... as they say

creedp · 26-11-2014 10:54am

Mech1 wrote: »

What does that mean?
If you had of done damage where you planning on blaming the garage?

A bit over the top no? Where did I indicate I was going to blame anyone for anything? I can I assure you I have already apportioned the blame for the mess to someone ... and he isn't complaining about it!

creedp · 26-11-2014 10:54am

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

more like he didn't want to be embarrassed by telling the mechanic he ****ed up a relatively simple task (to those who know) or look as though he was trying to avoid using the mechanic initially and D.I.Y. the job. it was probably mentally easier to just tell the mechanic it broke down and he was clueless.

no offence op. each to their own trade and all. don't be put off DIY'ing though, try again, fail again, fail better... as they say

its uncanny .. you know me so well!!

martinr5232 · 26-11-2014 12:00pm

creedp wrote: »

Sounds like a great use for an old vacumn cleaner I've got lying around. Maybe sometime in the future I'll get up the courage to tackle a fuel filter again but after the hassle of the last couple of days it could be a while yet. By the way if you connected into the return pipe would it pull fuel all the way through the fuel pump? In my case I could see air bubles in the fuel pipe from the filter to the fuel pump so even if I got fuel into the filter would there still be a problem?

I ended up towing the car the garage and they changed the filter and it started up no problem!! I didn't tell them about my amatuer DIY attempts in case I had done some damage!

Would be better off telling him what you done instead of him looking for a reason for breaking down / non start.

creedp · 26-11-2014 12:36pm

martinr5232 wrote: »

Would be better off telling him what you done instead of him looking for a reason for breaking down / non start.

Fair enough but in reality I knew I had airlocked the system because I removed the fuel line pipe so I told him the car was airlocked and I could see air bubbles in the fuel line. I asked him to change the fuel filter and see would that resolve the problem. I also said if there was any issue give me a call. I also asked hime to change oil and oil filter and check the battery all of which he was paid for.

martinr5232 · 26-11-2014 12:50pm

creedp wrote: »

Fair enough but in reality I knew I had airlocked the system because I removed the fuel line pipe so I told him the car was airlocked and I could see air bubbles in the fuel line. I asked him to change the fuel filter and see would that resolve the problem. I also said if there was any issue give me a call. I also asked hime to change oil and oil filter and check the battery all of which he was paid for.

You knew why it was airlocked but he didnt so he might have spent time looking for a cause of the airlock which could have turned out more expensive for you.

Cars dont usually airlock for no reason so you would usually suspect there is an issue somewhere.

You wouldnt believe the amount of times ive seen cars towed in and spend hours on a problem only to find out that someone else had been rooting at it and if I was told could have fixed the problem in no time.

Anyway alls well that ends well dont be afraid to have a go again but maybe next time do a bit of research first :-)

creedp · 26-11-2014 3:54pm

martinr5232 wrote: »

You knew why it was airlocked but he didnt so he might have spent time looking for a cause of the airlock which could have turned out more expensive for you.

Cars dont usually airlock for no reason so you would usually suspect there is an issue somewhere.

You wouldnt believe the amount of times ive seen cars towed in and spend hours on a problem only to find out that someone else had been rooting at it and if I was told could have fixed the problem in no time.

Anyway alls well that ends well dont be afraid to have a go again but maybe next time do a bit of research first :-)

Be honest with you I did a bit of research and watched a few youtube videos and thought as long as I fillrd up the filter housing with fuel after replacing the filter it would be fine by cranking over a few times. As a last resort I thought tow starting would get it going. In reality I only got as far as removing the in/out pipes and therefore never emptied the fuel filter and yet I has so much problems with it that I will be slow to have a go again. Change oil/oil filter/air filter OK but I may just leave the fuel filter to the mechanic.

martinr5232 · 26-11-2014 4:01pm

creedp wrote: »

Be honest with you I did a bit of research and watched a few youtube videos and thought as long as I fillrd up the filter housing with fuel after replacing the filter it would be fine by cranking over a few times. As a last resort I thought tow starting would get it going. In reality I only got as far as removing the in/out pipes and therefore never emptied the fuel filter and yet I has so much problems with it that I will be slow to have a go again. Change oil/oil filter/air filter OK but I may just leave the fuel filter to the mechanic.

Buy yourself a little hand primer and you will have no problems.

CJhaughey · 26-11-2014 4:39pm

A piece of clear tubing on the inlet and a small funnel to fill it with are all you need.
I would say 5 euro would cover it plus a little diesel to fill it ~500ml?

Car won't start after removing fuel filter pipes

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