New Garda fleet

Atlantic Dawn · 07-04-2015 6:07pm

Looks like they all have inbuilt cameras under the rear view mirrors, a great addition if they do for recording dodgy driving.

thadg · 07-04-2015 6:07pm

Pataman wrote: »

That is what the helicopter is for.

oh right, how many helicopters do force have??

not all chases are in the big smoke....

ask any garda , they will tell you the Hyundai are not fit for purpose, if they arrest someone there is no legroom in the back of the car for them. the cars are falling apart, the mondeo was a far superior car.

there was more talk about the 12 "high powered" opel insignias 180 bhp that the traffic corps received.

why cant they just follow the UK's footsteps and get proper cars

Toyotafanboi · 07-04-2015 6:11pm

thadg wrote: »

oh right, how many helicopters do force have??

not all chases are in the big smoke....

ask any garda , they will tell you the Hyundai are not fit for purpose, if they arrest someone there is no legroom in the back of the car for them. the cars are falling apart, the mondeo was a far superior car.

there was more talk about the 12 "high powered" opel insignias 180 bhp that the traffic corps received.

why cant they just follow the UK's footsteps and get proper cars

And the standard UK patrol car is an Astra isn't it? The i30 is hardly that different?

Didn't realise we cared so much for the legroom of the typical type of client that the gardai would have in the back seat anyway.

mailforkev · 07-04-2015 6:12pm

Grand for pottering about doing regular local Garda stuff in.

Not really grand for any kind of Motorway or high speed work but I'm presuming they have better stuff for that. At least I'm sure they would rather be stuck with pretty much anything else than a low spec Toyota.

Do they still have the unmarked Foresters and the like for the M50?

Atlantic Dawn · 07-04-2015 6:15pm

thadg wrote: »

there was more talk about the 12 "high powered" opel insignias 180 bhp that the traffic corps received.

why cant they just follow the UK's footsteps and get proper cars

Ok say all Garda cars are M5's, they can pretty much catch up with almost any car on the road today. Lets say there's a Toyota Yaris they are chasing on the M1 and they catch up with him doing a maxed out 150kmh, what do they then do in the M5 that they couldn't do in a bog standard Mondeo to stop the car? A good plan with putting down stingers or arranging road blocks up ahead with a coordinated plan is better than catching up with the offending car with high speed cars risking additional collisions.

Guy:Incognito · 07-04-2015 6:17pm

mailforkev wrote: »

Grand for pottering about doing regular local Garda stuff in.

Not really grand for any kind of Motorway or high speed work but I'm presuming they have better stuff for that. At least I'm sure they would rather be stuck with pretty much anything else than a low spec Toyota.

Do they still have the unmarked Foresters and the like for the M50?

The mothers Megane 1.5 will happily trundle along on the motorway at 160. I'm sure these will do similar. Do the Gardai need to be patroling motorways at much north of that?

thadg · 07-04-2015 6:22pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

And the standard UK patrol car is an Astra isn't it? The i30 is hardly that different?

Didn't realise we cared so much for the legroom of the typical type of client that the gardai would have in the back seat anyway.

no we don't but it is harder for the garda to get them into the car, and the front seat passenger then suffers.

the astras are only used around cities and large towns as panda cars in the uk, here nearly every station will have this scrap as there main car.
in the uk when they arrest people there is transit vans at their disposal for collecting them

ford would have been a far better choice.

they are predicting that 500 cars will be decommissioned this year, and they are adding 370, makes a lot since what they are at:rolleyes:

looks far better too when you see the police in the uk with high power cars eg 530d , Volvo v70 etc, chases are cut short in no time

Supergurrier · 07-04-2015 6:57pm

Not a patch on the remapped volvo diesel wagons they use for high speed stuff.

Those insignias are crap for overtaking too. Feck all mid range punch.

Mister Jingles · 07-04-2015 6:59pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Looks like they all have inbuilt cameras under the rear view mirrors, a great addition if they do for recording dodgy driving.

Think there just a blue led dash light mounted behind there.

Avada · 07-04-2015 7:14pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Looks like they all have inbuilt cameras under the rear view mirrors, a great addition if they do for recording dodgy driving.

Its only an led dashlight. Only some traffic cars get anpr cameras.

Old diesel · 07-04-2015 8:49pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

And the standard UK patrol car is an Astra isn't it? The i30 is hardly that different?

Didn't realise we cared so much for the legroom of the typical type of client that the gardai would have in the back seat anyway.

Yes the astra/focus/i30 may be a standard patrol car in the uk

BUT

They use a variety of different cars for various tasks.

you will find in the UK - the likes of Audi A4 Quattros, BMW 530ds, Volvo V70s and other DECENT cars for the likes of motorway work and roads policing and Armed response - and so many more things.

Basically the issue is - the Gardaí will use Hyundais for tasks that actually require a more capable car - so Audi with Quattro, BMWs, Skoda Vrs - that sort of machine.

Yet we managed quite dandy by all accounts with a Ford Mondeo dominated fleet for quite a number of years.

Lots of options were available wit Mondeos - 1.8 petrol, 2.0 tdci, 2.5/3.0 V6s.

A car for most requirements.

there is actually no need to run Hyundai i30s at all

Old diesel · 07-04-2015 8:51pm

Supergurrier wrote: »

Not a patch on the remapped volvo diesel wagons they use for high speed stuff.

Those insignias are crap for overtaking too. Feck all mid range punch.

Its the twin turbo Insignia they are using - not the normal 130/160 ps chappies.

Are you saying the twin turbos have crap overtaking as well.

Not saying the Insignias the best car - something VAG in the 150 to 184 ps range would possibly be better imo.

But surprised at the idea that a 190 ps twin turbo would lack overtaking punch

Supergurrier · 07-04-2015 8:53pm

Old diesel wrote: »

Its the twin turbo Insignia they are using - not the normal 130/160 ps chappies.

Are you saying the twin turbos have crap overtaking as well.

Not saying the Insignias the best car - something VAG in the 150 to 184 ps range would possibly be better imo.

But surprised at the idea that a 190 ps twin turbo would lack overtaking punch

The power is fine it's just the way in which its put down

Old diesel · 07-04-2015 8:57pm

Supergurrier wrote: »

The power is fine it's just the way in which its put down

You mean narrow powerbands/bad gearing????

I know when the Insignia went eco with the Ecoflex models on 130 and 160 ps Opel messed up the cars with ridiculously high gearing by all accounts.

Kind of defeats the point of twin turbos really if the power delivery is crap.

rocky911 · 07-04-2015 9:02pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Looks like they all have inbuilt cameras under the rear view mirrors, a great addition if they do for recording dodgy driving.

They are blues that are on the inside, the avensis had em also. Sure they are barely putting ANPR into the Traffic cars anymore, as far as I remember theres 3 132 mondeos in Cork atm, 2 saloon, 1 estate but its the estate that is the only one with ANPR. In order to reduce costs on the fleet back 2/3 years ago they decided on only putting ANPR in selected new cars.

The foresters seem to be in use by the NAS and are a weapon of a yoke! There was a few bought back in 05, similar job to the insignia , ie only a handful were got so I would be surprised if any are left. Same with the ST mondeos, there was a 03 one in the fleet that was actually siezed and given to the fleet ( common occurrence these days)

With regard to the i40s and i30's, IMO and experience they are holding up better than the avensis was, well for the moment but still not up to scratch regardless of the area of use but haven been in both when the boot was being put down I would say the i40 is a lot more stable.

Old diesel · 07-04-2015 9:08pm

rocky911 wrote: »

They are blues that are on the inside, the avensis had em also. Sure they are barely putting ANPR into the Traffic cars anymore, as far as I remember theres 3 132 mondeos in Cork atm, 2 saloon, 1 estate but its the estate that is the only one with ANPR. In order to reduce costs on the fleet back 2/3 years ago they decided on only putting ANPR in selected new cars.

The foresters seem to be in use by the NAS and are a weapon of a yoke! There was a few bought back in 05, similar job to the insignia , ie only a handful were got so I would be surprised if any are left. Same with the ST mondeos, there was a 03 one in the fleet that was actually siezed and given to the fleet ( common occurrence these days)

With regard to the i40s and i30's, IMO and experience they are holding up better than the avensis was, well for the moment but still not up to scratch regardless of the area of use but haven been in both when the boot was being put down I would say the i40 is a lot more stable.

Is the Estate the 2.2???

Think they bought 2.2 Mondeo Estates - but not sure if any of the Estates were 2.0s

Supergurrier · 07-04-2015 9:09pm

Old diesel wrote: »

You mean narrow powerbands/bad gearing????

I know when the Insignia went eco with the Ecoflex models on 130 and 160 ps Opel messed up the cars with ridiculously high gearing by all accounts.

Kind of defeats the point of twin turbos really if the power delivery is crap.

More poke than ecoflex but not a patch on the XC70 which is insanely fast 30-70mph

rocky911 · 07-04-2015 9:20pm

Old diesel wrote: »

Is the Estate the 2.2???

Think they bought 2.2 Mondeo Estates - but not sure if any of the Estates were 2.0s

Ya as far as I know shes 2.2, lovely looking bus in fairness! you could be right about the 2 estates, I haven seen em in a while, since they got the opel it seems to be the only one out. I think Traffic are the only unit in the job that have more cars the people ha

Old diesel · 07-04-2015 9:32pm

rocky911 wrote: »

Ya as far as I know shes 2.2, lovely looking bus in fairness! you could be right about the 2 estates, I haven seen em in a while, since they got the opel it seems to be the only one out. I think Traffic are the only unit in the job that have more cars the people ha

my apologies - never said there was 2 - I meant I wasn't sure if the gardai bought 2.0 diesel Mondeos in the estates.

All ive heard and seen off - were 2.0 diesel Saloons and 2.2 diesel estates

rocky911 · 07-04-2015 9:35pm

Old diesel wrote: »

my apologies - never said there was 2 - I meant I wasn't sure if the gardai bought 2.0 diesel Mondeos in the estates.

All ive heard and seen off - were 2.0 diesel Saloons and 2.2 diesel estates

Think your on the money with that one!

sully2010 · 07-04-2015 9:44pm

Why are all the new Garda cars estates now, are they cheaper, better at handling? I would have thought saloons were easier to handle at higher speeds.

rocky911 · 07-04-2015 9:51pm

sully2010 wrote: »

Why are all the new Garda cars estates now, are they cheaper, better at handling? I would have thought saloons were easier to handle at higher speeds.

Space but knowing how things go, prob money ? but would always thought they cost more.

IsaacWunder · 07-04-2015 10:06pm

sully2010 wrote: »

Why are all the new Garda cars estates now, are they cheaper, better at handling? I would have thought saloons were easier to handle at higher speeds.

I think it's because they can get more kit in the back.

Special Circumstances · 07-04-2015 10:17pm

sully2010 wrote: »

Why are all the new Garda cars estates now, are they cheaper, better at handling? I would have thought saloons were easier to handle at higher speeds.

It's psychological.

Irish people have an unnatural fear of estates. The thought of travelling in one is enough to make many people think twice about acting the maggot.

Infracted · 07-04-2015 11:00pm

Special Circumstances wrote: »

It's psychological.

Irish people have an unnatural fear of estates. The thought of travelling in one is enough to make many people think twice about acting the maggot.

One of the stupidest things I've ever read.

Jesus. · 07-04-2015 11:52pm

What's your favourite Cop car you've seen?

I like Alfas

Special Circumstances · 07-04-2015 11:54pm

Infracted wrote: »

One of the stupidest things I've ever read.

You try suggesting an estate to the next friend ( well, work colleague or something) who mentions looking for a new car...

billie1b · 08-04-2015 12:30am

There was a Focus ST added to the fleet last week, just finished being kitted out, unmarked yoke

coylemj · 08-04-2015 12:57am

Infracted wrote: »

One of the stupidest things I've ever read.

That 'stupid' poster has 30x more posts than your grand total of 41, try to develop a sense of humour and maybe you'll think before accusing someone of being stupid.

coylemj · 08-04-2015 1:01am

sully2010 wrote: »

Why are all the new Garda cars estates now, are they cheaper, better at handling? I would have thought saloons were easier to handle at higher speeds.

Space for cones and various signs needed to deal with temporary lane closures associated with multi-vehicle motorway accidents?

ironclaw · 08-04-2015 6:13am

coylemj wrote: »

Space for cones and various signs needed to deal with temporary lane closures associated with multi-vehicle motorway accidents?

3-Series can take a good deal of kit. A little messy here but you can get some very clever rack mounts.

Terrontress · 08-04-2015 6:46am

There is a Ford Mondeo for every police role. Small engined, high performance, 4x4, 2x4, saloon, estate, diesel, petrol.

Keep a stock of parts, serviced centrally, training is easier.

That's what they need.

Henry Ford III · 08-04-2015 7:38am

coylemj wrote: »

That 'stupid' poster has 30x more posts than your grand total of 41, try to develop a sense of humour and maybe you'll think before accusing someone of being stupid.

A high post count is no guarantee of high quality either I'd suggest.

Special Circumstances · 08-04-2015 7:51am

Henry Ford III wrote: »

A high post count is no guarantee of high quality either I'd suggest.

How very dare you... lol ;-)

FWIW think the 50 post threshold before you can post links has led to a lot of low level spamming.

Sofiztikated · 08-04-2015 10:00am

I've already seen people whinging about the price of these, and the "Irish Water payin 4 deze"

I still don't understand why people think that we need a police force in vehicles capable of achieving Mach 1. We don't have a billion miles of motorway. Not every police interaction results in a chase.

Bio Mech · 08-04-2015 10:05am

Infracted wrote: »

One of the stupidest things I've ever read.

I think its bang on actually.

TrailerBob · 08-04-2015 10:24am

How many actual high speed pursuits are there on a weekly basis though? A few high performance units on the motorway patrols would definitely be useful. Other than that a high speed pursuit on Irish roads would be a very dangerous thing.

At least they don't have the equivalent of a Renault 4 like our local had back in the day

Toyotafanboi · 08-04-2015 10:29am

sully2010 wrote: »

Why are all the new Garda cars estates now, are they cheaper, better at handling? I would have thought saloons were easier to handle at higher speeds.

what would make the saloon better handling?

IsaacWunder wrote: »

I think it's because they can get more kit in the back.

i would imagine so. we can argue it until the cows come home, but it's basic motoring knowledge that an estate has a larger, easier to access boot area than a similar saloon.

Terrontress wrote: »

There is a Ford Mondeo for every police role. Small engined, high performance, 4x4, 2x4, saloon, estate, diesel, petrol.

Keep a stock of parts, serviced centrally, training is easier.

That's what they need.

what makes the mondeo the pinnacle vehicle for law enforcement though? the basic mondeo new costs €5k more than an i30 touring, which makes a fair difference (almost €2 million) when you are buying 370 of them. that's probably saving equivalent to the wages budget of an average town sized garda station for a year. i know you probably get a deal when you buy 370 of them, bud i'd say the price gap remains firm. i know they are giving away the old shape mondeo now, but as good as the gards are, they don't have a crystal ball, so they wouldn't have known this when they signed a (3 year?) contract with hyundai.

i have no idea what engines the gardai went with but hyundai offer the 1.6td engine with 125bhp whereas the fatter mondeo only offers 115, which is worth noting for the "get there faster" crew.

rocky911 · 08-04-2015 10:39am

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

what would make the saloon better handling?

i would imagine so. we can argue it until the cows come home, but it's basic motoring knowledge that an estate has a larger, easier to access boot area than a similar saloon.

what makes the mondeo the pinnacle vehicle for law enforcement though? the basic mondeo new costs €5k more than an i30 touring, which makes a fair difference (almost €2 million) when you are buying 370 of them. that's probably saving equivalent to the wages budget of an average town sized garda station for a year. i know you probably get a deal when you buy 370 of them, bud i'd say the price gap remains firm. i know they are giving away the old shape mondeo now, but as good as the gards are, they don't have a crystal ball, so they wouldn't have known this when they signed a (3 year?) contract with hyundai.

i have no idea what engines the gardai went with but hyundai offer the 1.6td engine with 125bhp whereas the fatter mondeo only offers 115, which is worth noting for the "get there faster" crew.

The i40 has 1.7 cdti engines in them, estate and salon AFAIK and the i30 has the 1.6. To be honest the days off going to all calls with the bells and whistles on are gone for two reasons :

1. Lack of Official drivers which means those driving on "cheifs" which is a written permission from the Chief super of the division to allow regular members drive. They have no advanced training and actually sign an agreement to say that they wont use blues when responding.

2. If you pursue someone, you would want to have a good reason as upper management will nail you to the wall if anything happens the car, others or you so alot of lads see it as not worth it unless there is a genuine reason to do so.

So in theroy unless driver training standards change dishing out high performance cars to the regular units would be like having tits on a bull

H3llR4iser · 08-04-2015 12:25pm

The reality is, most chases are about keeping pressure on the runner until he/she does something silly and puts it into a wall - or other patrols can close in from ahead and set up roadblocks. It might sound odd, but it's actually the least dangerous approach.

Getting close to the chased vehicle is possibly a very silly idea - all it takes is from the fugitive to slam on the brakes: The patrol car smashes in the back of it, radiator wrecked. Engine blown in minutes, the fugitive escapes.

This is what happens when a Carabinieri Alfa 155 2.0Ts with 150hp (a few of which very likely "escaped" in years and years of abuse) chases a heavily modded, ~200 hp Passat that was smuggling weapons:

As a matter of fact, around 1:18, when they get really close to the VW, you can hear the driver clearly holding the throttle to allow the chased car to build up a bit of a gap. From the beginning, you can hear the other officer saying "just keep up, he's gonna crash" ("tanto si schianta"), while he's calling for roadblocks on the radio.

And indeed it's exactly what happened - the Passat crashed.

rocky911 · 08-04-2015 12:34pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

The reality is, most chases are about keeping pressure on the runner until he/she does something silly and puts it into a wall - or other patrols can close in from ahead and set up roadblocks. It might sound odd, but it's actually the least dangerous approach.

Getting close to the chases vehicle is possibly a very silly idea - all it takes is from the fugitive to slam on the brakes: The patrol car smashes in the back of it, radiator wrecked. Engine blown in minutes, the fugitive escapes.

This is what happens when a Carabinieri Alfa 155 2.0Ts with 150hp (a few of which very likely "escaped" in years and years of abuse) chases a heavily modded, ~200 hp Passat that was smuggling weapons:

As a matter of fact, around 1:18, when they get really close to the VW, you can hear the driver clearly holding the throttle to allow the chased car to build up a bit of a gap. From the beginning, you can hear the other officer saying "just keep up, he's gonna crash" ("tanto si schianta"), while he's calling for roadblocks on the radio.

And indeed it's exactly what happened - the Passat crashed.

Thats all well and good but in this country, your goosed if he crashes because the paper pushers will be demanding as to why it happened.. think people fail to realize that AGS has too much red tape that if you do they right thing and good outcome your superiors are praised..do the right thing and screw up its your head on a plate.. its a catch 22 which is why lads do not want to go after gougers anymore, its not worth loosing your job for chasing a fella who was on the hop due to no tax or insurance which is the majority of cases.

Till such time that changes are made to the driving training in the college and the job, the i40s and i30s are more then adequate for the regular job but I do agree that 4x4 would be more suited in country stations.

Special Circumstances · 08-04-2015 12:45pm

Yeah, some cultural ambassador with a driving ban, no insurance, flat out through red lights once he's signalled to pull over.

If anything happens? The uniforms will still be up to their neck in paperwork and ombudsman long after yer man saunters free for the tenth time this year alone.

Terrontress · 08-04-2015 12:55pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

what would make the saloon better handling?

i would imagine so. we can argue it until the cows come home, but it's basic motoring knowledge that an estate has a larger, easier to access boot area than a similar saloon.

what makes the mondeo the pinnacle vehicle for law enforcement though? the basic mondeo new costs €5k more than an i30 touring, which makes a fair difference (almost €2 million) when you are buying 370 of them. that's probably saving equivalent to the wages budget of an average town sized garda station for a year. i know you probably get a deal when you buy 370 of them, bud i'd say the price gap remains firm. i know they are giving away the old shape mondeo now, but as good as the gards are, they don't have a crystal ball, so they wouldn't have known this when they signed a (3 year?) contract with hyundai.

i have no idea what engines the gardai went with but hyundai offer the 1.6td engine with 125bhp whereas the fatter mondeo only offers 115, which is worth noting for the "get there faster" crew.

An i30 is a smaller car than a Mondeo. The Mondeo is larger, can hold more kit, and it's a more comfortable environment for someone to spend their working day in.

I'll agree that it doesn't have to be a Mondeo, you could probably have a Skoda Superb to fulfill all of what I've written above.

Toyotafanboi · 08-04-2015 1:08pm

Terrontress wrote: »

An i30 is a smaller car than a Mondeo. The Mondeo is larger, can hold more kit, and it's a more comfortable environment for someone to spend their working day in.

I'll agree that it doesn't have to be a Mondeo, you could probably have a Skoda Superb to fulfill all of what I've written above.

but that's exactly my point, an i30 estate holds more and has a more practical access door than a mondeo saloon.

the mondeo saloons boot with a space saver spare is 540 liters, the i30 tourers boot is 530 liters below the parcel shelf, so with the parcel shelf removed, it can be stacked to the roof, nearly doubling the cargo space.

perhaps the latest mondeo seats are nicer, i havn't been in one, but in the 3rd gen mondeo (07-14) seats aren't anything to write home about, they are spectacularly flat.

Noccy_Mondy · 08-04-2015 1:27pm

Seen my first 142 insignia estate there, was moving so didn't get a proper look at it, but I'm sure it had 16 alloys, no 18s or 19s there! That'd be a sin to spec the cars up a bit.

MuppetCheck · 08-04-2015 1:52pm

Noccy_Mondy wrote: »

Seen my first 142 insignia estate there, was moving so didn't get a proper look at it, but I'm sure it had 16 alloys, no 18s or 19s there! That'd be a sin to spec the cars up a bit.

Those cars are covering heavy, hard mileage. Hitting bumps etc hard at speed in bigger wheels has a greater chance of rendering them immobile, crashing as a result or having an expensive repair. Even the mondeos are on smaller steelies. Sounds like there was thought in the speccing of them tbh.

listermint · 08-04-2015 1:55pm

Noccy_Mondy wrote: »

Seen my first 142 insignia estate there, was moving so didn't get a proper look at it, but I'm sure it had 16 alloys, no 18s or 19s there! That'd be a sin to spec the cars up a bit.

Why you would put 18s or 19s on a police vehicle is beyond me ... ..

Sofiztikated · 08-04-2015 2:14pm

listermint wrote: »

Why you would put 18s or 19s on a police vehicle is beyond me ... ..

Because then people can give out even more about needlessly spending money, duh!

billie1b · 08-04-2015 2:48pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

so with the parcel shelf removed, it can be stacked to the roof, nearly doubling the cargo space.

This is not allowed, if the Garda are involved in a chase and crash or get rammed etc it can cause things to shoot forward that are not secured with the parcel shelf causing harm to the Gardaí and or damage to the car. Thats why on the jeeps they have the steel cage to block things shifting forward, dunno if they will add that to the Hyundai fleet of cars

Guy:Incognito · 08-04-2015 2:55pm

Even only filling to the height of the parcel shelf, an estate is better. Theres nothing worse (I drive one myself) than needing something thats buried in a packed saloon boot.

New Garda fleet

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