Kerosene drip

Ludikrus · 13-01-2015 10:34am #1

My firebird boiler is dripping oil from a bolt that can be adjusted with an Allen key. I was wondering if someone can tell me what this part does as I don't know what I'm going at. I had a guy out to look at it but I don't think he knew much more than I did. I pointed out to him where I'd seen a drip coming from and he said it couldn't be originating from there. The boiler isn't leaking oil all the time and never when it's running but only when it's off, like overnight. The service guy couldn't find any trace of oil and he's been here twice but we can smell it as the boilers inside. He said all he can advise is to replace the pump. Last night the smell was very bad so I opened it up and managed to get a picture of the drip. I zoomed in on one photo attached. Can anyone tell me what this part is? Should I try tightening it myself and could a drip here be a faulty pump that needs replacing?

kerryplumber · 13-01-2015 10:58am

Ya you're looking at a new pump

kerryplumber · 13-01-2015 10:58am

Ya you're looking at a new pump

RJF · 13-01-2015 11:27am

The bolt with the drip on it is one of three retaining allen bolts that hold the oil pump in position. The fact that there is a leak is not necessarily an indication that there is anything wrong with the pump as it seems to be working away fine. The leak may be coming from the small copper pipe on the far side of the pump which supplies the oil to the nozzle or even running back along this from a loose or defective nozzle. You need someone who is experienced in service and repair of riello burners to check all connections and seals. To replace the pump without finding exactly where the leak is coming from is excessive but may solve the problem since replacing the pump would involve re tightening any loose connections with the added cost of an unneeded new pump. Find the leak first. Suggest an Oftec registered or well experienced service man. You can try leaving the boiler off for a time before the service guy calls so they can easily find the leak. I don't think you need to replace the oil pump just yet.

agusta · 13-01-2015 12:10pm

I would think the pump shaft seal is the fault.If your service guy removes the pump from the motor and there is kerosene on the pump shaft then its the pump seal.
I would be checking the filter in the pump to make sure its clean and be checking the pump for any wear before i would put on a new seal.If pump is good i would just change the pump shaft seal,
The allen key head bolt is one of three bolts for attaching the pump to the motor.Tightening the bolt wont do anything to stop the leak.

RJF · 13-01-2015 12:39pm

I agree fully with Agusta that the seal may be the problem and he gives good advice. This is why you need someone experienced to check it. As I said "You need someone who is experienced in service and repair of riello burners to check all connections and seals".

Wearb · 13-01-2015 1:36pm

Yes! it is way too much of a jump to blame a faulty pump without more investigation. An oil leak can travel all over the place. Could be as simple as replacing a pinched "O" ring.

RJF · 13-01-2015 1:59pm

Sorry Wearb, I think you are counting the bolts holding on the pump cover, we meant the bolts holding the pump centered on position on the motor. I think you will find there are 3. The more I think about it the pump shaft seal is a good candidate as Agusta said. No leak when running and seems to take a while to appear. Problem is a lot of guys will just replace the pump not the seal, problem is fixed, no one the wiser. This is where the experience comes in - ability to spot and replace the seals, save the cost of pump. Other problem is then the pump itself goes a month later. This is where the real experience comes in - stick or twist - judgement call.

Wearb · 13-01-2015 2:10pm

RJF wrote: »

Sorry Wearb, I think you are counting the bolts holding on the pump cover, we meant the bolts holding the pump centered on position on the motor. I think you will find there are 3. The more I think about it the pump shaft seal is a good candidate as Agusta said. No leak when running and seems to take a while to appear. Problem is a lot of guys will just replace the pump not the seal, problem is fixed, no one the wiser. This is where the experience comes in - ability to spot and replace the seals, save the cost of pump. Other problem is then the pump itself goes a month later. This is where the real experience comes in - stick or twist - judgement call.

Yeah. I corrected my post after getting a better look at pic.

Valve stem seal another candidate. If that or seal on shaft, I would check for over pressurised pump, just in case. If shaft seal, check motor bearings.

It is most likely shaft as other leak sources would be easier to spot.

RJF · 13-01-2015 2:33pm

Ya, saw that after I posted. If the pump was previously removed or replaced those 3 bolts could have been over/under tightened with the pump off center which put pressure on the seal causing it to leak. Could also wear the plastic transmission connector to the motor. Should be checked. These sometimes come with new pump anyway. Pump pressure should definitely be checked with smoke test and fga if required.

Ludikrus · 13-01-2015 4:06pm

Thanks very much for the responses guys. I will get someone with the experience required to investigate as suggested above.

Out of interest, what's the typical lifespan for a pump like mine? I bought the house in 2005 and it hasn't been replaced in that time, so it's at least 10yrs old. The guy quoted me €90 for a new pump. If it's time for it to be changed I'll pay it.

RJF · 13-01-2015 4:19pm

90 euro is about right (cost of pump only) and 10 years is a decent age. Suggest you replace it but but also check other possibilities mentioned in the post. You should also get the boiler serviced and set up properly especially if this hasn't been done recently or regularly.

Wearb · 13-01-2015 4:24pm

Nobody can do a proper job of replacing a pump for €90. As mentioned, pressure needs to be set and then a smoke test and then a flue gas analysis. This can often result in showing up the need for a service.

RJF · 13-01-2015 4:28pm

I agree with Wearb but I did say cost of pump only.

Ludikrus · 30-01-2015 11:02am

I ended up getting the pump replaced. All seemed fine for a bit but there was a smell of oil last night, and sure enough drips of kerosene in the drip tray again.
Can anyone recommend someone in the Galway area who would have the experise with riello/firebird boilers to fix this? I've tried two different (OFTEC registered) technicians and had the pump replaced. I'm at my wits end with it.

RJF · 30-01-2015 11:25am

Did you replace the nozzle as well. It may be defective. The OFTEC guy should have checked for the source of the leak before replacing a working pump. As said earlier, check for all leak possibilities before replacing pump.

Wearb · 30-01-2015 12:22pm

Defective nozzle wouldn't cause a drip.
And yes service man should have been more thorough

jimf · 30-01-2015 1:05pm

get them back this kind of service is not good enough did you get a flugas analysis printout on completion

agusta · 30-01-2015 2:17pm

Ludikrus wrote: »

I ended up getting the pump replaced. All seemed fine for a bit but there was a smell of oil last night, and sure enough drips of kerosene in the drip tray again.
Can anyone recommend someone in the Galway area who would have the experise with riello/firebird boilers to fix this? I've tried two different (OFTEC registered) technicians and had the pump replaced. I'm at my wits end with it.

Can you see if the oil drip is coming from the same place as you showed in your picture previously

yipeeeee · 30-01-2015 2:21pm

How someone can fit a new pump, charge the customer then walk away with oil still leaking is beyond me.

Finding an oil leak is such a simple task.

RJF · 30-01-2015 11:50pm

What causes an oil nozzle to drip?

Oil drips when the burner starts-
This can happen during preheating in the oil preheater when the oil expands or during prepurge due to a dirty or defective closing valve in the oil pump.

Oil is dripping during operation-

The oil nozzle is located too far from the baffle plate or the burner head.
Ignition electrodes protrude into the oil mist, so they are placed incorrectly.

Dirt in the oil nozzle or oil coke in and on the nozzle orifice.

The nozzle orifice is defective, because of attempts to clean it.

Too low oil pressure. Remember to check now and then.

What causes afterdrip of oil when the burner stops?

When the burner stops and the oil nozzle sprays a jet of oil instead of cutting off the oil supply with lightening rapidity, the most likely reasons are:

A slight leak in the suction line may result in tiny amounts of air getting into the oil pump, the pressure line or the oil nozzle.
Such an amount of air is, however, not sufficient to disturb the function of the burner, but large enough to produce an afterdrip and even an oil jet when the burner stops. This will eventually lead to the parts getting dirty and cause malfunction.

The oil in the oil pressure line between the pump and the oil nozzle contains air.

Even with a perfectly operating closing valve and a thorough bleeding of the pressure lines, afterdrip of oil can be seen because of the radiation of heat from the combustion chamber, which expands the oil and forces it into the oil nozzle after the burner has stopped.

All of the above is according to a Danfoss booklet on Oil Nozzles. Please find following upload.

Kerosene drip

Comments