Article: The All Season Tyre Myth

Can anyone say what all seasons are like on black ice? You know where you tap the brakes and the car takes off?

I'm due new tyres and seen as it's winter time I think I'll go for all seasons. If they're good on black ice they could save on a big repair bill

bbk wrote: »

I got them from that Openeo place. At the time, they were a fair chunk of money cheaper than Eiretyres for the Hankooks, but I have always wanted to test the market when I could to see if there were better alternatives. The low noise rating of the Falkens in Auto Bild tests made me take a chance.

I already took a chance on the Quadracs, which I am not terribly happy with but to be fair, the rear of the car (where they are) is planted in heavy rain.

Let us know your first impressions of the Falkens.

If ice is ice, this is an interesting video. Out of date all seasons I'd imagine. Old video.


http://youtu.be/L2wTg0l3_wI

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

I think All Season performance may have improved in tyres types released recently.

Of course, around the time of the video, the Vector 4 and Optimo 4S had just come out(ish). A North American video too so probably the rubbish stuff too (re: EU vs US performance). Even now I'd wonder are there even 10 top class All Seasons models out there. I hold the Optimo in a very high regard, tis an old model.

shedweller wrote: »

I may be wrong but i dont think any rubber will give any grip on black ice.
Chains or studs would work but studs aren't allowed here. I suppose a tyre with a very soft compound would help some bit on black ice??

Studs are the only option on black ice, they are not illegal but you are very restricted in speed with them, you certainly can't use them at motorway speeds or the studs can come out.
If there is solid snow/ice cover then thats really where they are intended to be used.
Nordic conditions where the studs don't contact the tarmac much if at all.
Good winter tyres will cover most of the conditions here well.
Even with winter tyres there are a few different types, Nordic non-studded, Nordic studded and then the ones that are designed for Central European winters which would typically be best suited for conditions here where you have a mix of dry and wet cool roads with occasional ice and snow.

CJhaughey wrote: »

Studs are the only option on black ice, they are not illegal but you are very restricted in speed with them, you certainly can't use them at motorway speeds or the studs can come out.
If there is solid snow/ice cover then thats really where they are intended to be used.
Nordic conditions where the studs don't contact the tarmac much if at all.
Good winter tyres will cover most of the conditions here well.
Even with winter tyres there are a few different types, Nordic non-studded, Nordic studded and then the ones that are designed for Central European winters which would typically be best suited for conditions here where you have a mix of dry and wet cool roads with occasional ice and snow.

Along side the progression and development of All Seasons into very capable and viable options in recent years, the Studded vs Studless winter comparison has shown up some very strong conclusions along the lines of "hardly any need for studded".

Im paraphrasing as it's been about four years since I've researched full winters but I believe the conditions werent constant snow like Northern Canada . Technology advances so relentlessly, I never thought tyres did too, in my ignorance that was.

CJhaughey wrote: »

I've been following the tech involved in Winter tyres for a while now, I know that Nokian make very good Winters, they pretty much specialise in them and the new Hakkapellita R2 are supposed to be very good as a non-studded tyre.
They use a special type of Silica crystal that performs very well at low temps.
That said these and the studded Hakka 7's are for Nordic conditions like Canada's North/Finland/Russia etc.
The non-studded option is mainly for where roadwear is a problem like in Norway and Sweden due to studded tyres in the cities.
In the country I think Studs are preferable due to their better performance on Ice.
They would sell exclusively Non-studded if they could but there is no real substitute for studs where they are needed.
Metal studs bite into ice and snow where rubber cannot.

Oh aye, no doubt there.

CJhaughey wrote: »

Once you try them you'll never go back to Summers in Winter, especially if they are good Winter tyres.
Chalk and Cheese TBF

Summers in Winter should not be an option, the alternatives should be All Season or Summers+Winters. IMHO "summers" are based on too high a temperature range/too low rainfall, for Irish conditions which are often cool and wet (but not snow).

This suggests that the All Season is up there in our climes
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2014-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm

Arguably new cars in Ireland should come with All Seasons. Most people in Ireland are not aware that their tyres are "summers", indeed prior to the snow in 2010 I wasn't greatly up to speed on this issue myself. Summers + Winters maximises things, but what proportion of Irish drivers change tyres, this isn't Finland. I'd say fit All Seasons by default and if Motors forum enthusiasts want to go for summer + winter in an informed way then great, but Sean and Maire will at least have a tyre decent at all times of the year.

Alun wrote: »

M+S marking, although I'm not sure how much that can be relied on.

You're right to bring that up. It is the Snowflake mark which you should go for. The way things happened, it was a tougher test for Winter tyres which a couple of All Season models performed so well in that they got the mark. Now the technology has developed and there are a couple more. The Snowflake is probably not the be all and end all, objective testing which compares the Snowflake marked tyres would be; anyway, the M&S is meant to be a rubbish marking.

Talking about chalk and cheese earlier, I noticed that when I switched from Summers to All Seasons (Hankook H730) in the snow of a few years ago. Utter terror to relatively outrageous stability, for an Irish driver who had no idea what driving on proper tyres for the conditions was like.

Alun wrote: »

Do the Hankook H730's have the snowflake mark? They'd be one of the ones I may go for when my current summer/winter sets wear out.

Yes, they were one of the first to get it, along with the Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons. They both scored closely together and at the top of the tyre tests.
For some reason, the Goodyear model still scores the highest with the Hankook dropping down the list, but the Hankook is a more road based All Season where the Goodyear was called "nearly a Winter" so perhaps the road conditions tested were not as similar to Ireland as before.

The H730 is also called the Optimo 4S

Popoutman wrote: »

With the recent cold weather and a fair bit of distance driving in the past week, I found it amusing to hear my driving friends (who are generally competent drivers) complain about slippery roads. I had not found any significant different in my grip levels, whereas my friends on lesser tyres found their grip levels gone away with the colder weather making their tyres harder and less grippy.

Thats really the way it should be, you should find driving in poor conditions almost as easy as it is in dry warm conditions.
I find that with winters I am confident even on cold greasy and generally poor traction surfaces.

Tyrereview.co.uk video

gooner99 wrote: »

Have you put on those Falken's yet?

I put them (Falken AS200) on last week.

EDIT: I just noticed that I put the tyres on after it would have been any use for your decision, but after the experience below, I am quite happy. /EDIT

The car feels sharper around corners compared to the Hankooks (H730). No race car stuff, but I own a heavy skip of a car and it doesnt feel like it is understeering or slipping in the dry at the same speeds as the Hankooks would around roundabouts etc.

They are noticeably quieter than the Hankooks, but I am a sound engineer so maybe I look out for these things more.

I drove through a relative blizzard yesterday, heavy snow with at least an inch or so on the ground before it melted a while later. No issues through the snow, slush and then drenched motorway. I did a heavy brake test in heavy snow where the motorway widens for a toll and it stopped with great confidence. No slips, skids or ABS; it just stopped from 60-70kph. Switching lanes and running into higher levels of snow/slush was also issue-less. But, all my tread is new on the car, so that has a lot to do with it.

All that said, the Hankooks were also very impressive but it has just been too long since I have needed them in snow. For the everyday stuff, the Falkens noise and better cornering is making me a fan. After yesterday, I am very impressed. I would have no issue swapping between the Hankooks and Falkens from now on.

They are not meant to be good on the fuel consumption side, though. I averaged 49.6 in a weekend trip when I was expecting mid 50ies, but there was at least 150 to 175 miles of motorway which my car is only at 42mpg for, which after some rough maths seems to indicate that there is no substantial difference between fuel consumption.