Why Ireland's so called 'Tourist Industry' is a joke

Judgement Day · 06-10-2010 12:05pm #1

Before I start I will preface my piece by saying that I have had years of experience dealing with the big boys in Ireland's tourist industry so this is more than a rant as to why the 46a was 2 minutes late last Wednesday week.

There is so much wrong with Ireland's so called tourism 'product' that it's difficult to know where to start, but I will get the ball rolling with an email that I sent to the Fingal Co.Council and the CEO of Dublin Tourism about the state of Malahide Castle. Despite my emails being sent on the 27/9/10 I have yet to receive anything more than holding emails. The contents of my letter and replies below - and I would welcome your comments before I post further on this thread.

Sent to the Chairman Fingal Co.Council
and the CEO Dublin Tourism

Fry Model Railway Museum

Dear Mr. O'Connor,

I visited the Fry Museum on Sunday last (26/9/10) with my two small children. As is the case with outings involving small children, availability of toilets is an important consideration in the planning process. The toilets at the Fry Museum, which we were in a very poor condition on my previous visit several years ago, were marked out of use (I think) as the notice outside the toilet block was so old as to be illegible.

The Model Exhibition itself is tired after many years in constant use and the whole visitor experience badly needs something to freshen it up. The souvenir shop was poorly stocked but that has been the case for many years. I understand from the very helpful member of staff at the ticket desk that there has been no proper manager of the museum since John Dunne retired and it shows!

On enquiring about toilets she directed us to the Castle but sadly the toilets there were in poor condition and the cubicle that I brought my sons into had the seat hanging off! I would have photographed it for you but as the toilets were busy I did not wish people to think I was some sort of pervert. Anyway, it is just not good enough for what should be one of the Capital’s leading tourist attractions.

In terms of cleanliness and general condition the Castle toilets compared very unfavourably with Eddie Rockets in South Anne Street which we had occasion to use later in the day. There, taps, soap dispensers and hand dryers didn't have to be handled and the whole place in spotless condition - with a cleaning roster displayed on the wall. The broken toilet seat is particularly unforgiveable and as someone who has run a similar venture I can assure such things should be repaired within 24 hours.

As an aside, I find it almost inconceivable in a country which aspires to having a tourist industry, that a museum on the doorstep of the Capital remains closed up for six months of the year!

I would be interested in your comments.

Yours sincerely,

The reply from Dublin Tourism:

Thank you for your email. I am out of the office on Monday, September 27th, 2010 and will reply to your enquiry on my return.

For immediate assistance, please contact my colleague, Robert Nicholson, at the Dublin Writers Museum on 01-872-2078 or 872-2077 or email: writersmuseum@dublintourism.ie or rnicholson@dublintourism.ie

Thank you,

Nyree Landry
Manager, Dublin Tourism Attractions

The masterly, and issue avoiding, reply from Fingal Co.Council

Dear

I wish to acknowledge receipt of your email. In reference to your query regarding Malahide Castle and facilities, these areas are under the management of Dublin Tourism. I will refer your query on to their offices. (Dublin Tourism, Tourism Centre, Suffolk Street , Dublin 2 Tel: 01 605 7700)
If I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me at this email address.

Yours sincerely
Maeve Egan
County Managers Office

The confusion about who actually is responsible for Malahide Castle goes right down to the staff on the ground who are incapable of answering this question themselves. Two years ago when I rang Dublin Tourism to complain about the, now closed, toilets nonbody there could tell me the name of their CEO - I kid you not!

Dublin Tourism are something of a shambles anyway and another recent experience I had with them involved me delivering a copy of a publication that I publish to their main office in Andrews Street. I delivered it over the counter rather than trusting it to An Post and, guess what, it never reached the intended recipient. More emails followed and finally I just gave up with them. I have a vast amount more to post on this subject but I will wait for some other posts first. Come on - something positive will do - if there's anything positive. :rolleyes:

Amhran Nua · 06-10-2010 1:45pm

I'd definetely agree that tourism in Ireland is a vastly underused resource. We have a lot to offer culturally, but the tourism board seems almost ashamed to take advantage of that, instead marketing the country as a great place for stag nights from the UK. Of course this a more general observation than your specific ones, but it still holds true.

mikemac · 06-10-2010 1:52pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

As an aside, I find it almost inconceivable in a country which aspires to having a tourist industry, that a museum on the doorstep of the Capital remains closed up for six months of the year!

When I read this I thought maybe the Castle and grounds are still privately owned and this could explain it.

But no, it passed to the Irish State in 1975.

murphaph · 06-10-2010 2:24pm

This is where your hard earned tax euros go folks. Is DT a quango or part of a govt department?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 06-10-2010 2:28pm

What I don't get - why are a lot of tourist attractions closed on Sundays??

mikemac · 06-10-2010 2:31pm

Maybe staff are due premium rates on Sundays so it's not viable.
I'm not saying tourist attractions need to make a profit, many won't but they do have a budget and they can't make it work

Fat_Fingers · 06-10-2010 2:34pm

BearNecessities wrote: »

What I don't get - why are a lot of tourist attractions closed on Sundays??

Unions

murphaph · 06-10-2010 3:07pm

Yup, in Germany stuff like this is usually closed on a Monday, but open all through the weekend when tourist numbers are high. In Berlin there's also a "long night of the museum" in which all participating museums open all night twice a year with a special bus service that visits all of them. You buy a ticket and hop on hop off type thing. It's very popular. Would Irish unions allow this like their German counterparts I wonder?

ardmacha · 06-10-2010 3:24pm

Would Irish unions allow this like their German counterparts I wonder?

Well everything was open late on Culture Night and among other things I visited Dublin Castle and the Custom House between 6pm and 9pm.

Fair play to the OP for complaining, there is no excuse for a dirty bog.

Judgement Day · 16-10-2010 11:29am

Lots more to come from me on this thread when I get time. For now I turn to another of my pet hates which I was involved with in at the planning stages - The Queenstown Story. This project which received large amounts of EU funding has failed to live up to the original proposals for the scheme and today consists of a 'visitor centre',the ubiquitous cafe and souvenir shop. I recently had reason to visit their website http://www.cobhheritage.com/ which is fairly amateurish, full of spelling errors and not updated for quite some time. Not what one would expect for one of the - theoretically - most important visitor attractions in the country but more like a local community effort. And, look at the number of hits on the site!!! Anybody been there?

ardmacha · 16-10-2010 2:07pm

There is a broader point here. Tourism brings money into the country, often circulates in parts of the country with little industry. There are many initiatives possible to improve the "product" and many of these do not cost huge amounts of money. Whether it be signposting or clean jacks these improvements are easier than some of the "big" economic issues and some effort should be made to do these things that are very achieveable.

Apart from the state of exhibits like Malahide or Cobh, if you go to Tripadviser it is full of threads about people visiting Ireland feeling ripped off by car hire firms. Now there may be reasons for high car hire prices, short season, bad American drivers.... But it is clear that car hire companies are unclear in their charges and some regulation is needed to ensure this clarity. I'd require them to offer a regulated package with most things included and a clear statement of what is not. They could (and should) offer other deals but these would have to be positioned relative to the regulated product.

Absurdum · 16-10-2010 3:15pm

Fat_Fingers wrote: »

Unions

Care to elaborate?

The museum in question is open on Sundays and bank holidays. Malahide Castle and Demesne are open 7 days a week, 362/3 days a year.

Kilmainham Gaol, Dvblinia, Dublin Castle, Trinity College and most of the top tourist attractions are open 7 days a week during the peak season.

Judgement Day · 16-10-2010 8:02pm

Absurdum wrote: »

Care to elaborate?

The museum in question is open on Sundays and bank holidays. Malahide Castle and Demesne are open 7 days a week, 362/3 days a year.

Kilmainham Gaol, Dvblinia, Dublin Castle, Trinity College and most of the top tourist attractions are open 7 days a week during the peak season.

The Fry Model Railway Museum is closed for 6 months of the year and, incidentally, I still have to hear from anybody in relation to my 'query' as they so quaintly put it in their reply to my complaint about the closed toilets and broken bog!

katkin · 16-10-2010 8:49pm

The Irish Tourism industry is a joke because there has been very little investment in preserving our material culture. We have way too many groups involved in our heritage - the OPW, the Heritage Council and local authorities in the main. Duchas was great because it brought all aspects of our culture and environment under one body, but it was broken up by FF creeps worried about the power this one body might have. Bord Failte are so lame, that bloody ad over the summer about holidaying in Ireland with those fecking banshees roaring in the background - very unimaginative and uninspiring and doesn't represent our country at all. Hate to say it but look at Britain, the National Trust there is fantastic. What we have here are crumbling ruins with no access or interpretation and decaying artefacts in run down museums - with maybe one or two honeypot sites designed to fleece tourists. If the govt are serious about attracting tourists to this country they need to consider what draws them and focus on providing access and quality experiences of our culture, because at present our ancient sites and artefacts are neglected and poorly marketed.

MrMatisse · 16-10-2010 8:55pm

We also dont have a really great tourist attraction, yeah there is the scenery but if your under 35 thats just boring, the adventure tourism which we do is poor in the main and aimed at the lower end of the market.

mal1 · 16-10-2010 9:00pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

The Fry Model Railway Museum is closed for 6 months of the year and, incidentally, I still have to hear from anybody in relation to my 'query' as they so quaintly put it in their reply to my complaint about the closed toilets and broken bog!

The failure to answer a query, is that the reason why the Tourist Industry is a joke? If this is the benchmark for being a joke then there's going to be a lot more than the tourist industry fitting the bill. I was expecting something more substantial when I read the thread title.

Absurdum · 16-10-2010 9:02pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

The Fry Model Railway Museum is closed for 6 months of the year and, incidentally, I still have to hear from anybody in relation to my 'query' as they so quaintly put it in their reply to my complaint about the closed toilets and broken bog!

Fair enough, it's not for me to defend their poor facilities and communications. I would imagine their six month closure is based on costs, it's a little off the beaten track for passing tourists to be dropping in to.

katkin · 16-10-2010 9:02pm

@ Really Stressed. You're right in one way- we don't have sun, sea or sand, and we don't have great shopping or cities, so all we have really is the scenery and our heritage and that's our selling point. If we could attract tourists interested in this type of thing great, and if they're older even better, they might spend more. People generally come to Ireland because they have roots here or for the "unspoiled" scenery and culture, so that needs preserving.

mal1 · 16-10-2010 9:10pm

Just noticed that the compliant was sent to the Chairman Fingal Co.Council
and the CEO Dublin Tourism. Come on. If you're serious about your complaint and getting acknowledgment then send it to a prudent recipient.

AlekSmart · 16-10-2010 9:24pm

Places like the former Arigna Colliery are where we could and should be doing our best to promote.

I visited it last year and found it fascinating,especially as the Guide as a retired employee and well versed in explaining the true meaning of hardship.

http://www.arignaminingexperience.ie/index.htm

I`m unaware of the funding arrangements for the place,but I felt it was in total scale with the area and represented good value too.

gbee · 16-10-2010 9:48pm

To make one comment about the Cobh Heritage Centre, despite Cobh receiving a good liner trade in the summer, almost all the alighting passengers are whipped away by bus to Blarney Castle and almost none actually visit the centre.

A comment in a US tourist magazine mentioned that Ireland was not worth visiting any more as it has lost it cultural identity with all the service industry, restaurants, hotels, shop, guest houses being staffed by east europeans.

The comment says it's better to directly to Latvia, Lithuania or Poland where one gets the real thing and at a fraction of the price.

I'm sure we'll see the tourist figures soon enough for this season to see if the article had any negative effect. We'd need to compare that, obviously with any increase to the other countries.

maninasia · 17-10-2010 5:06am

feelingstressed wrote: »

Maybe staff are due premium rates on Sundays so it's not viable.
I'm not saying tourist attractions need to make a profit, many won't but they do have a budget and they can't make it work

If they can't make it work...CHANGE IT.

1squidge · 17-10-2010 10:41am

A couple of months ago there was a birdfair at rutland in England. At this event there were thousands of people present. At this Birdfair there were many stalls from different tourism bodies from around the world trying to attract Business. I emailed Discover Ireland as to why there was no representative trying to promote Birding holidays in Ireland which is big business in many countries. To date I have not received an answer. So when I see tourism bodies on the rte news whinging about lack of tourists in this country I think to myself its because your not doing your job. Maybe a birding fair in England just wasnt exotic enough for our hard pressed tourism chiefs.

Judgement Day · 17-10-2010 11:24am

mal1 wrote: »

Just noticed that the compliant was sent to the Chairman Fingal Co.Council
and the CEO Dublin Tourism. Come on. If you're serious about your complaint and getting acknowledgment then send it to a prudent recipient.

Sorry don't understand your point.

Judgement Day · 17-10-2010 11:27am

mal1 wrote: »

The failure to answer a query, is that the reason why the Tourist Industry is a joke? If this is the benchmark for being a joke then there's going to be a lot more than the tourist industry fitting the bill. I was expecting something more substantial when I read the thread title.

Well why don't you trying reading the thread then - it's more than about a complaint about toilets. However, the state of the toilets and the response to my complaint are symptomatic of all that is wrong in the industry.

Judgement Day · 17-10-2010 11:49am

Back in the early 1990s when I was applying for grants for various EU tourism grants one of the main stipulations was that you had to be able to show how many additional overseas visitors you were going to attract to Ireland. Bord Failte who oversaw most of these funding applications made it very hard for most small operators to access grants whereas they approved numerous applications by promoters of interpretative centres. The last project I was associated with (the now semi-defunct Cavan & Leitrim Railway) could prove that people came to the country specifically to visit our type of attraction but I would be interested to know how places such as the Corlea Trackway

The Corlea Trackway - Another of Charlie Haughey's legacies!

and the Lismore Experience met these requirements. Incidentally, the Lismore Experience website here: http://www.discoverlismore.com/heritagecentre.shtml is still displaying their rates for 2008 - perhaps prices haven't changed!! Comments?

The country is blighted with poor quality interpretative centres while our real heritage is left to rot. The canals, despite all the recent hullabaloo about the reopening of the Royal Canal, attract a fraction of the visitors that they should and there now seems to be a raft of bureaucracy looking after them, from the OPW, Waterways Ireland and various voluntary bodies. Our National Transport Museum is in a haybarn and many of the items preserved over the years by other bodies have now ended up in private hands and as freak shows around the country. Our architectural heritage now has so many bodies involved that it is hard to keep track of who is doing what and where.....

Liam Byrne · 17-10-2010 12:01pm

katkin wrote: »

@ Really Stressed. You're right in one way- we don't have sun, sea or sand

????

http://www.google.ie/images?q=ireland+beaches&hl=en&prmd=ivm&source=lnms&tbs=isch:1&ei=Tte6TOHOFI2OjAeQ6vTQDg&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&sqi=2&ved=0CBIQ_AU&biw=1024&bih=515

murphaph · 17-10-2010 3:49pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

The country is blighted with poor quality interpretative centres while our real heritage is left to rot. The canals, despite all the recent hullabaloo about the reopening of the Royal Canal, attract a fraction of the visitors that they should and there now seems to be a raft of bureaucracy looking after them, from the OPW, Waterways Ireland and various voluntary bodies. Our National Transport Museum is in a haybarn and many of the items preserved over the years by other bodies have now ended up in private hands and as freak shows around the country. Our architectural heritage now has so many bodies involved that it is hard to keep track of who is doing what and where.....

Agreed 100%.

I and my GF are just back from a week's holiday in Ireland. As usual I was dissappointed at the twee bullsh!t nature of what passes for tourist attractions in Ireland. Really useful things for tourists (like accurate signposting, MOTORWAY REST AREAS WITH FECKING TOILETS LIKE THE REST OF THE CIVILISED WORLD and general information) still don't exist in many places and the countryside has of course been well and truly destroyed with the massive quantities of one off houses that have been "erected" in recent years-there is very little if any true wilderness left in Ireland in 2010, there's almost always a sh!tty looking McMansion or bungalow in sight.

I only go there to see my family really and it's my German GF who wants to go look at things. The comment above about a couple of honeypot attractions and everything else being extremely mundane and downright dated, hits the nail right on the head. I really wonder what many visitors from the likes of the States or Australia who pay big money to get to Ireland actually make of it.

The point about the service industry being full of foreign labour IS valid. Americans etc. do not come to Ireland to be served by polish staff (no disresepect to them, they are often better than the Irish at the actual job and are just as friendly IMO). Perhaps hoteliers and resteraunters need to realise that they are not sunning a Spar shop in a Dublin industrial estate and that their market WANTS Irish staff to serve them. We went to Waterville on Tuesday (wanted to catch a boat to the Skelligs) and there was one shop open at 10.30 am, no cafe or anything like that. The shop was staffed by (nice and friendly) polish workers but again, in a tourist area like the Ring of Kerry, there are lots of erm, tourists!

So, from Waterville we drove to Ballinskelligs as we had read in our guide book that boats depart from there for the islands. We (eventually) found the harbour and of course there was absolutely NO SIGNAGE from the boat operator to be seen anywhere. Totally amateur nonsense which even I found hard to believe.

The journey on to Cahirciveen was plagued with a lack of directional signage despite being a highly popular tourist spot. Symptomatic of an amateur country I suppose.

katkin · 17-10-2010 6:29pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

????

http://www.google.ie/images?q=ireland+beaches&hl=en&prmd=ivm&source=lnms&tbs=isch:1&ei=Tte6TOHOFI2OjAeQ6vTQDg&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&sqi=2&ved=0CBIQ_AU&biw=1024&bih=515

Ya stupid comment, meant like you know beaches you'd be lying on frying. But ya we've plenty of sea and sand, and a bit of sun.

Judgement Day · 17-10-2010 9:28pm

Grace Court, Dromod, Co.Leitrim - back in the mid-1990s an EU funded consultants report recommended that the rather pretty field that once existed here be used as a site to develop a narrow gauge museum connected to the adjacent Cavan & Leitrim Rly depot. Today apart from being a monument to poor architecture which makes no attempt to blend with the landscape, it appears to be largely a 'zombie' estate with houses being sold by the receiver for as little as €75,000. :rolleyes:

The C&L locomotive shed can be seen in background - left corner.

http://maps.google.ie/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=dromod+count+leitrim&sll=53.401034,-8.307638&sspn=7.367271,19.753418&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Dromod,+Drumod,+County+Leitrim&ll=53.860761,-7.914995&spn=0.000895,0.002411&z=19&layer=c&cbll=53.860744,-7.914945&panoid=RLz-zUDzeyj4hNbY5D9hKw&cbp=12,325.63,,0,5.1

Judgement Day · 17-10-2010 10:02pm

Meanwhile down the road at Elphin in County Roscommon, a bull**** Model Railway Village (LittleElph) which was being pushed by British consultants before I left Leitrim in 1998 appears to have been approved - again! See here: http://www.goelphin.com/ If this model railway village is anything like the fiasco at Clonakilty it should not receive a cent in EU or other public funding. Clonakilty has to be seen to be believed.

A couple of Trip Advisor reviews here: http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g211877-d216077-r77540355-West_Cork_Model_Railway_Village-Clonakilty_County_Cork.html#REVIEWS

An ex.Sugar Company diesel shunting locomotive garishly painted up as a 'steam' engine - note the driver painted in the cab window - preservation Irish style!

Even the 'preserved' post office box and telephone kiosk carry awful liveries which are completely incorrect.