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Can/Should you ski if you're pregnant??

2

Comments

  • #52
    Denalihighway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭Denalihighway


    EileenG wrote: »
    So you'd pay my wages all through my pregnancy, since you are making it impossible for me to go to work? I had to cycle from Swords to Dublin all through all my pregnancies because I couldn't sit in a car or bus without getting sick.

    I'm kind of astonished at how many people are willing to lay down the law for other people on this subject. And I suspect that many of those same people would not stand up on a bus to give their seat to a pregnant woman.

    are you pregnant at the moment? :D

    ah cmon...needed to lighten the thread up a little, we're getting a bit emotional.

    Listen, no one is having a go at you, maybe you feel like we are. You seem defensive about it. And as far cycling while you were preggers to avoid busses. That...is very very admirable, and I mean it.

    The point of the whole thread is whether its 'advisable' to go skiing when pregnant.

    Any research I did seemed fairly unequivocal on the matter. And when I say that, I mean that yes, there may by some docs/articles out there who say its OK, but for everyone one of them there's another 7 or 8 who say its not advisable. You have to expect this to be thorny subject for people.

    As far as "laying down the law" is concerned, its each to their own, all we can say is how we'd feel if it were us. There's no laying down the law to be done to other people, its their business.

    EDIT
    ps - and yes, I would certainly give my seat up for a pregnant woman. But if she started smoking, I might have to tell the bus driver.


  • #53
    Paddy Bateman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 178 ✭✭Paddy Bateman


    EileenG wrote: »
    RoverJames wrote: »
    I wouldn't consider skiing, cycling or walking on ice safe for a pregnant lady given the chance for accident, walking on a decent pavement I would consider safe.

    So you'd pay my wages all through my pregnancy, since you are making it impossible for me to go to work? I had to cycle from Swords to Dublin all through all my pregnancies because I couldn't sit in a car or bus without getting sick.

    I'm kind of astonished at how many people are willing to lay down the law for other people on this subject. And I suspect that many of those same people would not stand up on a bus to give their seat to a pregnant woman.
    How you get to work is off topic - skiing is at question here


  • #54
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,034 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Paddy Bateman wrote: »
    How you get to work is off topic - skiing is at question here

    Not off-topic at all. You'll find as many idiots screaming "cycling? How could you do something so dangerous?" as you'll find screaming "omg do you know how many people are killed skiing every year?".


  • #55
    Paddy Bateman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 178 ✭✭Paddy Bateman


    Stark wrote: »
    Paddy Bateman wrote: »
    How you get to work is off topic - skiing is at question here

    Not off-topic at all. You'll find as many idiots screaming "cycling? How could you do something so dangerous?" as you'll find screaming "how could you even think about standing on a pair of skis?".
    Well the thread title is "Can/Should you ski if you're pregnant??" - you may wish to start a "Can/Should you cycle if you're pregnant??" if you want


  • #56
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,034 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Well I would say it's perfectly fine for an experienced skiier if they're being careful. The baby is very well protected within the womb. And like was mentioned earlier in the thread, pregnant women fall and hurt themselves when walking quite regularly without any harm happening to the baby.


  • #57
    Paddy Bateman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 178 ✭✭Paddy Bateman


    Stark wrote: »
    Well I would say it's perfectly fine for an experienced skiier if they're being careful. The baby is very well protected within the womb. And like was mentioned earlier in the thread, pregnant women fall and hurt themselves when walking quite regularly without any harm happening to the baby.
    Well I would say its not perfectly fine as outlined earlier on this link



    http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancyhealth/toprecommendedexercises.html

    Skiing is not a recommend exercise while pregnant


  • #58
    flikflak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 981 ✭✭✭flikflak


    ^ a lot of things are not recommended but as an individual you can make your own choice. How did the human race ever thrive throughout history without such recommendations? Womens bodies are built to carry a baby while doing all kinds of so called dangerous activities.

    If we refrained from doing everything that was not recommended to us we would not go anywhere or do anything.


  • #59
    Paddy Bateman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 178 ✭✭Paddy Bateman


    flikflak wrote: »
    ^ a lot of things are not recommended but as an individual you can make your own choice. How did the human race ever thrive throughout history without such recommendations? Womens bodies are built to carry a baby while doing all kinds of so called dangerous activities.

    If we refrained from doing everything that was not recommended to us we would not go anywhere or do anything.
    There is a list of recommended activities on the link above


  • #60
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    Paddy Bateman wrote: »
    Well I would say its not perfectly fine as outlined earlier on this link



    http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancyhealth/toprecommendedexercises.html

    Skiing is not a recommend exercise while pregnant

    Ill finish that sentence for you:

    Skiing is not a recommend exercise while pregnant by the American Pregnancy Association, a private organisation who recommend that you don't take anything from their site as gospel and that you discuss it with your health professional.

    That advice is copyright by them and should really be posted here though.... ooops


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  • #61
    Paddy Bateman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 178 ✭✭Paddy Bateman


    Rew wrote: »
    Paddy Bateman wrote: »
    Well I would say its not perfectly fine as outlined earlier on this link



    http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancyhealth/toprecommendedexercises.html

    Skiing is not a recommend exercise while pregnant

    Ill finish that sentence for you:

    Skiing is not a recommend exercise while pregnant by the American Pregnancy Association, a private organisation who recommend that you don't take anything from their site as gospel and that you discuss it with your health professional.

    That advice is copyright by them and should really be posted here though.... ooops
    The link HAS been posted here if that's what you are saying


  • #62
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    Paddy Bateman wrote: »
    The link HAS been posted here if that's what you are saying

    If you want to know what im saying I suggest you read what I wrote.


  • #63
    Paddy Bateman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 178 ✭✭Paddy Bateman


    Rew wrote: »
    Paddy Bateman wrote: »
    The link HAS been posted here if that's what you are saying

    If you want to know what im saying I suggest you read what I wrote.
    Are you saying it should or shouldn't be posted? You seem to say one thing and imply another


  • #64
    avalon68
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 689 ✭✭✭avalon68


    Stark wrote: »
    Well I would say it's perfectly fine for an experienced skiier if they're being careful. The baby is very well protected within the womb. And like was mentioned earlier in the thread, pregnant women fall and hurt themselves when walking quite regularly without any harm happening to the baby.

    Unfortunately, even if you are a careful competent skier, you still can't account for the actions of others......just today I got bowled over by a runaway kid.....felt like I got hit by a bus! And it's not the first time I've been run into, or run into someone else :o.


  • #65
    Paddy Bateman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 178 ✭✭Paddy Bateman


    avalon68 wrote: »
    Stark wrote: »
    Well I would say it's perfectly fine for an experienced skiier if they're being careful. The baby is very well protected within the womb. And like was mentioned earlier in the thread, pregnant women fall and hurt themselves when walking quite regularly without any harm happening to the baby.

    Unfortunately, even if you are a careful competent skier, you still can't account for the actions of others......just today I got bowled over by a runaway kid.....felt like I got hit by a bus! And it's not the first time I've been run into, or run into someone else :o.
    Hopefully you weren't pregnant - you could have lost the child ! Don't know how someone could live with themselves if that happened due to their selfish thrill seeking


  • #66
    earnyourturns
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 298 ✭✭earnyourturns


    Crikey, this is an emotive topic.

    I too would have no qualms about skiing while pregnant, am an extremely experienced skier and would just tailor my ski days according to how I felt/the conditions etc. Would I do some high-speed carving down crowded icy slopes? No. Would I take off for some tight tree runs? No. Would I go off into the backcountry? No. Would I hit up the terrain park? No. Would I take the chairlift up and then cruise down some uncrowded green or blue runs, with pee breaks and hot chocolate breaks as required? Absolutely. (Bear in mind I am mainly talking about skiing in Canada here rather than very populated European resorts) I have seen women skiing when they are seven months pregnant in Canada, to no ill-effect.

    I totally agree about "safety first" when it comes to skiing, won't step foot on (or off) the slopes without a helmet etc, but I really think we need to keep things in perspective here. Yes, you could be knocked into by someone else, but again if you stick to uncrowded slopes/resorts (if that option is available to you) then you're minimising risk right there.

    The human body is pretty robust, even when pregnant. Probably *not* the time to head off on your first ski trip though.


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  • #67
    am i bovvered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭am i bovvered


    Paddy Bateman wrote: »
    Hopefully you weren't pregnant - you could have lost the child ! Don't know how someone could live with themselves if that happened due to their selfish thrill seeking

    Have you ever skied ?


  • #68
    Paddy Bateman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 178 ✭✭Paddy Bateman


    am i bovvered wrote: »
    Paddy Bateman wrote: »
    Hopefully you weren't pregnant - you could have lost the child ! Don't know how someone could live with themselves if that happened due to their selfish thrill seeking

    Have you ever skied ?
    Yes


  • #69
    am i bovvered
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭am i bovvered


    Then IMO you should realise that all skiing does not always involve "selfish thrill seeking" it can be very mentally soothing for somebody stressed and quite safe as as long as you are competent and stay on green or blue runs.

    I find your postings here a little aggressive.

    Do you believe you should not travel in a car because of pregnancy, I would say a lot more dangerous statistically than skiing a blue or green for a decent skier.


  • #70
    avalon68
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 689 ✭✭✭avalon68


    I'd agree with that- I find skiing a peaceful experience, no thrill seeking for me! However, accidents happen, and while you can minimize the risk, it is still a risk - an unnecessary one whilst pregnant. Comparing to riding in a car is irrelevant, yes statistically less people probably get injured skiing than driving, however, driving is a necessity for many people to get to work etc. skiing is not. If you have already booked, and can't get a fund, there a lots of things to do at a resort besides skiing - its probably only for a week right? I'm sure they would at least refund equipment rental etc.


  • #71
    EileenG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,775 ✭✭✭EileenG


    Very few things in life are actual necessities, and driving in a car is not one of them. It's just one where we accept the risk, including the risk to an unborn baby, because of the convenience.

    Skiing may not be a necessity either, but considering it was about the only enjoyable thing I could do during my pregnancy, and that I'm a competant, experienced skier, I consider it well worth the risk.

    I did cycle all through my pregnancies, and I defy anyone to tell me that's less dangerous than skiing. I was in Abbey Street yesterday and saw the remains of the bike that went under the car. I didn't hear anything about "selfish thrill seeking" when I cycled to work.


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  • #72
    Denalihighway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭Denalihighway


    at the risk of repetition...

    the thrust of the thread is whether skiing while pregnant is "advisable". or at least it should be because that's what the OP asked. (bet they regret asking now...)

    They didn't ask your personal opinion on it. Not whether you think you should do it, or whether you enjoy it, or whether it relaxes you, or whether a million other women have skied while pregnant and got away with it, or whether someone has "seen women 7 months pregnant skiing" etc, etc, etc, etc

    the vast majority of medical advice seems to advise against skiing while pregnant. Sorry if that doesn't some peoples' opinion but it seems undeniable.


  • #73
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Wouldn't make for much of a discussion forum then though would it?

    It is not an exact science where there is a definite 100% correct answer, that is why people have been giving their opinions on the topic and arguing their reasons for that.


  • #74
    earnyourturns
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 298 ✭✭earnyourturns


    Denalihighway wrote: »
    at the risk of repetition...

    the vast majority of medical advice seems to advise against skiing while pregnant. Sorry if that doesn't some peoples' opinion but it seems undeniable.

    Medical advice also used to be that women shouldn't run marathons in case it damaged their uteruses. Medical advice also used to be to smoke to combat anxiety. Medical advice also used to be blood letting to treat headaches and colds.

    Peer-reviewed, evidence-based medical research is another thing. Has there been much scientific research/many studies done on women skiing while pregnant? Again, it might well be that this advice is mainly coming from doctors and other health care professionals who don't ski, so hence they advise against it.

    (Incidentally, I wouldn't snowboard while pregnant, and again I'm an experienced snowboarder, have my instructor's cert etc. Just to do with the biomechanics of it and the likelihood of catching an edge etc. But again, no problem with skiing.)


  • #75
    Paddy Bateman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 178 ✭✭Paddy Bateman


    earnyourturns wrote: »
    Denalihighway wrote: »
    at the risk of repetition...

    the vast majority of medical advice seems to advise against skiing while pregnant. Sorry if that doesn't some peoples' opinion but it seems undeniable.

    Medical advice also used to be that women shouldn't run marathons in case it damaged their uteruses. Medical advice also used to be to smoke to combat anxiety. Medical advice also used to be blood letting to treat headaches and colds.

    Peer-reviewed, evidence-based medical research is another thing. Has there been much scientific research/many studies done on women skiing while pregnant? Again, it might well be that this advice is mainly coming from doctors and other health care professionals who don't ski, so hence they advise against it.

    (Incidentally, I wouldn't snowboard while pregnant, and again I'm an experienced snowboarder, have my instructor's cert etc. Just to do with the biomechanics of it and the likelihood of catching an edge etc. But again, no problem with skiing.)
    Your third paragraph contradicts the previous two


  • #76
    investment
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 573 ✭✭✭investment


    EileenG wrote: »
    Because it's not you who is pregnant? For me, being pregnant was nine months of misery. If I'd had to miss skiing as well, I'd probably have hanged myself.

    I would rather give birth twice a day, every day, than be pregnant.

    Please tell me you're joking:mad:

    So you would rather hang yourself and your un-born baby..If you could not get to go skiing

    Some people should not be parents...this is ****ing disgusing


  • #77
    earnyourturns
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 298 ✭✭earnyourturns


    investment wrote: »
    Please tell me you're joking:mad:

    So you would rather hang yourself and your un-born baby..If you could not get to go skiing

    Some people should not be parents...this is ****ing disgusing

    I'm going to take a deep breath and walk away from this thread after this but no, I don't think that was what EileenG meant. I think it was more she was saying how miserable a time she had while pregnant, and how skiing was one of the few things that made things seem tolerable, and how even more miserable she would have been if she hadn't had that...


  • #78
    Paddy Bateman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 178 ✭✭Paddy Bateman


    earnyourturns wrote: »
    investment wrote: »
    Please tell me you're joking:mad:

    So you would rather hang yourself and your un-born baby..If you could not get to go skiing

    Some people should not be parents...his is ****ing disgusing

    I'm going to take a deep breath and walk away from this thread after this but no, I don't think that was what EileenG meant. I think it was more she was saying how miserable a time she had while pregnant, and how skiing was one of the few things that made things seem tolerable, and how even more miserable she would have been if she hadn't had that...
    Its not advisable to use suicide to illustrate a point


  • #79
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Paddy Bateman wrote: »
    Your third paragraph contradicts the previous two

    No it doesn't.

    Snowboarding is a different activity from skiing, just happens to be done on the same mountains.


  • #80
    Paddy Bateman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 178 ✭✭Paddy Bateman


    robinph wrote: »
    Paddy Bateman wrote: »
    Your third paragraph contradicts the previous two

    No it doesn't.

    Snowboarding is a different activity from skiing, just happens to be done on the same mountains.
    But you are opining on snowboarding without peer reviews evidence which is what you want for skiing


  • #81
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Paddy Bateman wrote: »
    But you are opining on snowboarding without peer reviews evidence which is what you want for skiing

    What, that snowboarding is different from skiing? I don't think we need a doctor to confirm that for us.

    Back to the original question, which is two questions rolled into one.

    "Can you ski if you're pregnant?" - Yes

    "Should you ski if you're pregnant?" - Depends

    The reasons for the "depends" would be based on the likes of how pregnant, how experienced a skier are you, how many times have you been before, where are you going, how high is the resort, how busy is the resort and probably a bunch of other variables that I can't think of right now.


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  • #82
    olaola
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,139 ✭✭✭olaola


    TBH I don't think anyone here is qualifed to give anyone else a recommendation regarding winter sports while pregnant.


  • #83
    Denalihighway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭Denalihighway


    olaola wrote: »
    TBH I don't think anyone here is qualifed to give anyone else a recommendation regarding winter sports while pregnant.

    I agree with you.

    That's why I did a quick trawl of the internet before posting and found that vast majority of medical advice was against skiing while pregnant.

    I guess your next step would be contacting the medical practitioners who wrote the articles, if it doesn't suit your point of view (not you per se, I refer to anyone who wants to ski while pregnant).

    That seems to be the main thrust of the pro-skiing group here. Not much is being said at all about the fact that there is overwhelming medical advice against skiing while pregnant.

    The arguments are mostly based on one's PREFERENCE and anecdotal references about who did this and who did that with red herring comparisons to walking and driving etc etc. It's just not convincing unfortunately. There also seems to be a strong sense of solidarity among the female posters who have skied while pregnant or have known someone who did so, or whatever. That kind of emotion is a distraction from this.

    That's all I've been trying to point out anyway. Not trying to unduly demonise anyone or anything like that.


  • #84
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    If there was something to say that being at altitude or in a cold environment, despite being wrapped up warm, was an issue whilst pregnant then there would be a reason to take the medical types opinion as the only correct answer and say that nobody should ever ski whilst pregnant.

    It is more of a grey area on the risk of injury, the persons general fitness level and how experienced they are at a particular activity. Apart from the fitness level the GP is not in much of a position to be commenting.

    The risk of injury when skiing is incredibly low. Here is an article, admittedly a bit old and giving head and knee injuries for their statistics so not especially relevant to the potential issues that pregnancy might have...but still and interesting read: http://www.ski-injury.com/intro

    I can't see anything in the medical advice to not ski about why that might be. There is no actual medical reason cited that I've seen, so it is purely on someone's opinion of the potential risk. There is a risk, and nobody is denying that, it's just what is acceptable and manageable by each person.


  • #85
    drkpower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    Denalihighway wrote: »
    That seems to be the main thrust of the pro-skiing group here. Not much is being said at all about the fact that there is overwhelming medical advice against skiing while pregnant.
    No; there is overwhelming medical advice against falling while pregnant. Skiing itself does nothing to the baby, nothing at all; in fact, one would expect that the exercise would be positive for the baby.

    So the queston is: how likely am I, given my particular circumstances, to fall (or be crashed into) and how significant might that fall be? That is a risk assessment that every mother-to-be must make. That risk assessment needs to be made vis-a-vis every activity they engage in (walking, running, cycling, the gym, yoga, driving, hill walking, whatever) as well as vis-a-vis the food they eat, the drink they drink and even the issues that cause them stress. Some mothers might quite reasonably determine that, for them, skiing is safer than hill walking or driving or the gym. Some might reasonably conclude the opposite.

    The reason that doctors will, as a rule advise agianst skiing whilst pregnant, and especially why they will do so when they give blanket advice on websites, is because, as a general rule, skiing tends to be a more dangerous activity for the typical person. They do not want to provide advice that some unsuspecting pregnant woman will rely on to their detriment. But all medical advice must be given to an individual, not to the typical person. Secondly, contrary to popular opinion, very often, medical advice does not consist of 'you shalt do X' or 'you shalt not do Y' kinds of advice. It consists of advising of risks and allowing the patient to balance that risk themselves. So will every/most doctors advise every/most pregnant women not to go skiing; absolutely not.

    Btw, Paddy Bateman is a notorious troll. The M.O. is the same as a guy on politics.ie (called Patrick Bateman) who freely admitted he was a troll. Paddy 'Bait' Man, get it......


  • #86
    flikflak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 981 ✭✭✭flikflak


    drkpower wrote: »
    Btw, Paddy Bateman is a notorious troll. The M.O. is the same as a guy on politics.ie (called Patrick Bateman) who freely admitted he was a troll. Paddy 'Bait' Man, get it......

    Thanks - suspicions confirmed.


  • #87
    Denalihighway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭Denalihighway


    drkpower wrote: »
    No; there is overwhelming medical advice against falling while pregnant. Skiing itself does nothing to the baby, nothing at all; in fact, one would expect that the exercise would be positive for the baby.......

    again, I disagree.

    The doctor is not advising against falling - they are advising against taking the risk of falling. No woman goes to their doc and says "Listen doc I'm going to Austria to fall on my ass all day for 7 days, whadda ya think?"

    The doctor informs the women of the adverse effects of falls/collision/slipping etc while pregnant and based on that risk they generally advise against it.

    THEN, after the advice is given...its up the individual.

    You are misquoting me or other people and missing the point if you're talking about "Skiing itself does nothing to the baby" - no one is disputing that!!!

    I think it's about time I excited from this. All the relevant points have been made. Only repetition at this stage.

    EDIT

    ps - cheers for the heads up on our troll friend.


  • #88
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,034 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Denalihighway wrote: »
    again, I disagree.

    The doctor is not advising against falling - they are advising against taking the risk of falling. No woman goes to their doc and says "Listen doc I'm going to Austria to fall on my ass all day for 7 days, whadda ya think?"

    The doctor informs the women of the adverse effects of falls/collision/slipping etc while pregnant and based on that risk they generally advise against it.

    THEN, after the advice is given...its up the individual.

    For a pregnant woman to avoid the risk of falling, she'd have to strap herself into a chair for nine months.


  • #89
    EileenG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,775 ✭✭✭EileenG


    Stark wrote: »
    For a pregnant woman to avoid the risk of falling, she'd have to strap herself into a chair for nine months.

    And then she'd be in trouble for not staying active, thereby putting her baby at risk.


  • #90
    Denalihighway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭Denalihighway


    Stark wrote: »
    For a pregnant woman to avoid the risk of falling, she'd have to strap herself into a chair for nine months.

    FFS! this is what I'm talking about

    did I have to type the words "while skiing" after "falling" for it to make more sense?

    Read my next line "The doctor informs the women of the adverse effects of falls/collision/slipping etc while pregnant and based on that risk they generally advise against it"

    When I talk about falling I'm clearly talking about within the context of skiing. That post is borderliine trolling.

    As Duncan would say...I'm out.


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  • #91
    Paddy Bateman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 178 ✭✭Paddy Bateman


    Denalihighway wrote: »
    Stark wrote: »
    For a pregnant woman to avoid the risk of falling, she'd have to strap herself into a chair for nine months.

    FFS! this is what I'm talking about

    did I have to type the words "while skiing" after "falling" for it to make more sense?

    Read my next line "The doctor informs the women of the adverse effects of falls/collision/slipping etc while pregnant and based on that risk they generally advise against it"

    When I talk about falling I'm clearly talking about within the context of skiing. That post is borderliine trolling.

    As Duncan would say...I'm out.
    It's the degree of risk involved in skiing that the site I have linked to illustrates


  • #92
    drkpower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    Denalihighway wrote: »
    again, I disagree.

    The doctor is not advising against falling - they are advising against taking the risk of falling. No woman goes to their doc and says "Listen doc I'm
    going to Austria to fall on my ass all day for 7 days, whadda ya think?"

    Why would you take advice from your doctor as to the risk (or chance) of you falling while you are skiing? How does medical knowledge inform that assessment?

    (A) What a doctor will advise is what damage you might do if you fall. (B) You make the assessment as to the chances of you falling. A decision as to whether to ski will arise out of a consideration of A and B.

    If the risk of (B) is nil/negligible, (A) is essentiallly irrelevant.
    However, if there is more risk of (B), (A) becomes more and more relevant.

    It is all very straightforward really.


  • #93
    Denalihighway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭Denalihighway


    drkpower wrote: »
    Why would you take advice from your doctor as to the risk (or chance) of you falling while you are skiing? How does medical knowledge inform that assessment?

    (A) What a doctor will advise is what damage you might do if you fall. (B) You make the assessment as to the chances of you falling. A decision as to whether to ski will arise out of a consideration of A and B.

    If the risk of (B) is nil/negligible, (A) is essentiallly irrelevant.
    However, if there is more risk of (B), (A) becomes more and more relevant.

    It is all very straightforward really.

    yes it is straightforward.

    doctors generally advise against skiing while pregnant. i presume at this stage that's accepted.

    so to amend your statement slightly:

    (A) What a doctor will advise is what damage you might do if you fall. - accepted.

    (B) most doctors (knowing that they should advise against ANY voluntary, additional risk to an unborn child) advise against skiing while pregnant.

    simples

    what is not relevant in this argument is what you and other folks keep coming back to - which is the individual's assessment of risk. This is completely irrelevant. Some people with bad hearts decide to go scuba diving, is that wise? Some people don't wear helmets on motorbikes...

    I accept a bad skier is more likely to fall/get hit than a good skier. I accept there is more chance of it happening on a crowded slope than a quiet one. Clearly there are many variables.

    however, none of them, however small, change the fact that it is not recommended/advised, which is what the OP asked. anyone in their right mind would naturally come to the conclusion that the fact that it is not advised acknowledges unnecessary risks involved.


  • #94
    drkpower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    Denalihighway wrote: »
    (B) most doctors (knowing that they should advise against ANY voluntary, additional risk to an unborn child) advise against skiing while pregnant.

    This is where your argument falls down. Doctors do not advise against ANY voluntary, additional risk to an unborn child.


  • #95
    EileenG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,775 ✭✭✭EileenG


    Denalihighway wrote: »
    (B) most doctors (knowing that they should advise against ANY voluntary, additional risk to an unborn child) advise against skiing while pregnant.

    Just for interest, I asked a doctor who skies about this. She shrugged and said she wouldn't suggest taking up skiing if you've never done it, but more because you are more likely to end up with a minor injury which would be harder to treat with the restrictad range of pain-killers available than because of risk to the pregnancy. She had no problem with a competant skier going skiing.


  • #96
    Denalihighway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭Denalihighway


    drkpower wrote: »
    This is where your argument falls down. Doctors do not advise against ANY voluntary, additional risk to an unborn child.

    your argument keeps falling down because you insist on distracting people with stuff like this, (yes, I take your point, its impossible to avoid all risk ...but a doc will attempt to advise their patient away from unnecessary ones) rather than acknowledging that doctors generally advise against skiing while pregnant. pure and simple.

    @EileenG

    that's one doctor. And lets bet she's skied while pregnant. Not exactly the impartial sources we're looking for.

    EDIT: Is it at possible for anyone to at least concede that most doctors advise against skiing while pregnant, irrespective of the stage of pregnancy or skiing ability?

    I have conceded that the risks are minimised (greatly in some cases) by the permutations of the various variables involved. I don't how you cannot concede the first point.


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  • #97
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Denalihighway wrote: »
    @EileenG

    that's one doctor. And lets bet she's skied while pregnant. Not exactly the impartial sources we're looking for.

    A doctor who has experience of skiing is surely more qualified to give an opinion than one who has not. It does not make them biased more one way or the other, it just gives them the full set of information on what it actually involves and the level of risks which is what this all comes down to.

    Most GP's will just say no, to cover themselves and stop people asking them awkward questions (for which there is not really a correct answer anyway).


  • #98
    Denalihighway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭Denalihighway


    robinph wrote: »
    A doctor who has experience of skiing is surely more qualified to give an opinion than one who has not. It does not make them biased more one way or the other, it just gives them the full set of information on what it actually involves and the level of risks which is what this all comes down to.

    Most GP's will just say no, to cover themselves and stop people asking them awkward questions (for which there is not really a correct answer anyway).

    that's not the concession i required. but i'll take it at this point. :D

    anyways. healthy debate...


  • #99
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,034 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Interesting thread here on cycling while pregnant: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2056555397 (and an article from the Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/green-living-blog/2010/may/21/pregnant-cyclists).

    (Interesting because there would be similar "omg, what if you fall?" issues).


  • #100
    drkpower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    Denalihighway wrote: »
    your argument keeps falling down because you insist on distracting people with stuff like this, (yes, I take your point, its impossible to avoid all risk ...but a doc will attempt to advise their patient away from unnecessary ones) rather than acknowledging that doctors generally advise against skiing while pregnant. pure and simple..

    It is not distraction; it is at the core of the issue but unfortunately, you havent grasped it yet.

    It is indeed imposible to avoid all risk; there you are correct. So what people do is to essentially perform their own risk assessment as to the relative risks of all sorts of activities. For woman A, the experienced cyclist and one time skiier, the risk of falling while skiing will be far too high to consider engaging in that activity. For the same woman A, the risk of falling while cycling may be very very low and may be reasonably considered to be a risk worth taking (whilst woman A will acknowledge that cycling remians an additional unnecessary voluntary risk).

    For Woman B, the experienced skiier and novice cyclist, the risk assessment might be different. The risk of falling in their case while in engaging in skiing (in certain conditions) might be extremely low so as to amount to being negligible); the risk of falling while cycling, however, might be quite high.

    Do you see how the nature of advice given, and the nature of a risk assessment, might differ between different individuals? I hope so, because it is at the heart of medical advice.
    Denalihighway wrote: »
    Is it at possible for anyone to at least concede that most doctors advise against skiing while pregnant, irrespective of the stage of pregnancy or skiing ability?.

    There are two major problems with your question: First, I suspect that you have no specific evidence to support the suggestion that most doctors advise against skiing while pregnant, irrespective of skiing ability. If you do, please share.

    Second, that you search for a concession that most doctors advise against skiing while pregnant only illustrates further that you do not get the central issue!

    Of course, most doctors advise against skiing in pregnancy. That is because the vast majority of pregnant woman are not proficient and experienced skiiers, and therefore it poses a significant risk of falling for the vast majority of pregnant woman. On the flip side, most doctors advise that cycling is fine in pregnancy. Why? Because, the vast majority of pregnant woman are proficient and experienced cyclists. That is simply by virtue of the fact that people tend to learn and continue practising cycling all throughout their lives.

    So to summarise, and hopefullly you will get it this time, the issue with skiing (as with cycling) in pregnancy is the risk of falling. Your typical pregnant woman is more likely to fall while skiing, so doctors will typically advise against skiing in pregnancy. Your typical pregnant woman is quite unlikely to fall while cycling, so doctors will typically advise that cycling is ok in pregnancy. But the variable is the likelihood of a fall, not the activity itself. That will clearly depend on the proficiency of the woman at the activity concerned.


  • #101
    Denalihighway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭Denalihighway


    drkpower wrote: »
    It is not distraction; it is at the core of the issue but unfortunately, you havent grasped it yet.

    It is indeed imposible to avoid all risk; there you are correct. So what people do is to essentially perform their own risk assessment as to the relative risks of all sorts of activities. For woman A, the experienced cyclist and one time skiier, the risk of falling while skiing will be far too high to consider engaging in that activity. For the same woman A, the risk of falling while cycling may be very very low and may be reasonably considered to be a risk worth taking (whilst woman A will acknowledge that cycling remians an additional unnecessary voluntary risk).

    For Woman B, the experienced skiier and novice cyclist, the risk assessment might be different. The risk of falling in their case while in engaging in skiing (in certain conditions) might be extremely low so as to amount to being negligible); the risk of falling while cycling, however, might be quite high.

    Do you see how the nature of advice given, and the nature of a risk assessment, might differ between different individuals? I hope so, because it is at the heart of medical advice.



    There are two major problems with your question: First, I suspect that you have no specific evidence to support the suggestion that most doctors advise against skiing while pregnant, irrespective of skiing ability. If you do, please share.

    Second, that you search for a concession that most doctors advise against skiing while pregnant only illustrates further that you do not get the central issue!

    Of course, most doctors advise against skiing in pregnancy. That is because the vast majority of pregnant woman are not proficient and experienced skiiers, and therefore it poses a significant risk of falling for the vast majority of pregnant woman. On the flip side, most doctors advise that cycling is fine in pregnancy. Why? Because, the vast majority of pregnant woman are proficient and experienced cyclists. That is simply by virtue of the fact that people tend to learn and continue practising cycling all throughout their lives.

    So to summarise, and hopefullly you will get it this time, the issue with skiing (as with cycling) in pregnancy is the risk of falling. Your typical pregnant woman is more likely to fall while skiing, so doctors will typically advise against skiing in pregnancy. Your typical pregnant woman is quite unlikely to fall while cycling, so doctors will typically advise that cycling is ok in pregnancy. But the variable is the likelihood of a fall, not the activity itself. That will clearly depend on the proficiency of the woman at the activity concerned.

    A doctor generally will advise against skiing while pregnant. That is why they give general information online taking into account they have no way of knowing the readers variables. Therefore your points about risk assessment don't even come into it.

    Regarding my proof? Surprised you haven't pulled that card already - do a web search of 20 medical articles on the web - see how many advise against. You'll come to the same conclusion I did. I could easily ask you to give me evidence that doctors advise pregnant women to go skiing, there's probably a few out there you can dig up.

    My points above have always been in relation to general medical advice about skiing while pregnant. You want to talk variables.

    I'm actually starting to sound like a troll at this stage. I'm not as hardcore as other posters - I believe there is something to be set for the variables.

    However, Doctors, in general, do not advise skiing while pregnant. . You say this yourself in your last post.


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