Should children be expected to care for their parents in old age?

janmaree · 11-08-2011 11:20pm

Unfortunately there's no "one size fits all" solution to this. It's a problem, it's going to get worse, it will affect most of us one way or another and I shudder to think what it will be like in years to come. However, following on my post earlier, I really pity the carers doing it all now because they get very little real support, they do most of the worrying and the hard work, they're often resented while they're at it because there are plenty who think they only do it for the "inheritance" and then when they're worn out and burned out, there's the added danger of being thrown out. Nice work if you can get it!

Creature · 11-08-2011 11:30pm

I'll be damned if I ever let my parents end up in a home. There's not much that I'd put ahead of taking care of either of them if they ever needed it. They've given too much over the years for me to leave them out in the cold so to speak.

looky loo · 11-08-2011 11:43pm

Having cared for my father and then after he died working in a care home, I would honestly prefer someone to shoot me in the head before I was put into one....to most carers its just a job, there is never enough staff on to cover the amount of elderly people that need caring for, you dont get time to have a conversation with them, its all about money saving exercises.

Its an awful shame that some people who have posted dont appreciate the sacrifices that some of their parents have made for them whilst growing up, I believe karma will take care of those posters.

A little bit of humanity goes along way, and also to the people who do send their parents into a home, make sure you go visit....some people in the home i worked in, their children never came to visit, just dumped them there and forgot about them, you would find them at nite pouring over pictures of their families with tears in their eyes.

southsiderosie · 12-08-2011 12:50am

flutterflye wrote: »

The thing is though that it is simply not functional in our present society.
The nuclear family is here because it is what works.
There are so many reasons why it is the way it is, and why it remains this way.
Unless there is some major shift in societal or economical structure (bigger than our current recession), I cannot envision this occurring in the foreseeable future.

In our world of information, services, materialism, greed, transport, education, mass media, urbanisation, medical advances etc... and all that comes with it, a large community style family unit is not really compatible for society to function.

Nice idea in an ideal word though....

Eh... may have gone a tad off topic again.

Actually I don't think the nuclear family works well at all. It is isolating for mothers with young children and for older members of the family, it doesn't make sense economically, and it pushes a lot of costs onto the state. Of all my girlfriends with small children, the only ones who are managing to work full time while maintaining some semblance of sanity are the ones whose mothers help with child care.

As for elder care...I can only speak for my situation. I just got a call today from one of my brothers saying that my father needed surgery, and would not be mobile for a while. I am going home, and we are going to collectively take care of him. He spent thirty years in a steel mill so we wouldn't have to; the least we can do is take care of him now that he needs help.

Ickle Magoo · 12-08-2011 1:01am

We have a bit of a family joke that my parents keep threatening to blow our inheritance (their words, not mine) and we joke back that they'll end up in an NHS old folks home watching endless daniel o'donnell and eating soggy cabbage if they do - but the truth of it is I couldn't do that to them regardless. We're already looking at our next move being to a house with a granny flat and the like so if needs be we can have them closer to us. :cool:

starlit · 12-08-2011 1:05am

Personally no, but I suppose we need to repay the favour up to a certain point when they need to go to a nursing home if caring for them is difficult but if they have a sound mind and somewhere what mobile they should be ok to live at home as they age whether they are caring for themselves or their children care for them. If they are ill then I think the children should at least look after them up to a certain stage until they need hospital care. Its only fair that the children would look after their parents in old age since the parents looked after them when they were babies!?

Happyzebra · 12-08-2011 1:16am

looky loo wrote: »

A little bit of humanity goes along way, and also to the people who do send their parents into a home, make sure you go visit....some people in the home i worked in, their children never came to visit, just dumped them there and forgot about them, you would find them at nite pouring over pictures of their families with tears in their eyes.

There is always a reason why people don't visit and only sometimes it's because the people concerned are selfish... there's little point in trying to explain why an adult would not visit or take care of a parent to people who were lucky enough to have loving and supportive parents.

Also it is easy to pay 'lip service' to claim that one will definitely look after elderly relatives when the time comes (and even geniuinely believe that you will) but when the time comes the reality sets in that sh!t this is a heck of a lot harder than I thought.

kincsem · 12-08-2011 1:25am

People can look after their parents in old age for a time. But there comes a time when you are not capable of looking after the needs of the parent when their mental or physical condition deteriorates (or both.)

The people who say they will look after their parents in old age have not yet got to the situation where the parents need care.

K-9 · 12-08-2011 1:32am

smccarrick wrote: »

Personally I think that we have to come to some sort of a consensus as to what are automatic rights for the elderly, and how we propose to pay for them.......

Many people can be independent into their 80s or even their 90s- while others might suffer impairments before then- so while the elderly might be presumed to have rights- we have to be able to arbitrarily decipher when these should kick in- and it should be on a means basis, not on an age related basis.

So- should the state be in the business of providing nursing home places? Personally I don't think so. I do think that there should be mandatory care in the home, alongside homehelp, by properly vetted nurses and homehelpers- and that this should kick in automatically if there are certain preconditions met- such as- a diagnosis of alzheimers, oncology treatment being undertaken, other predefined health conditions on either the part of an individual, their partner or a nominated carer, which potentially changes the care structure or endangers the health of another person presumed to be caring for an elderly person........

Next- we have to decide how to pay for this. So what that we've all paid tax- last time I checked there was no pool of money ringfenced to care for the elderly- it all comes out of either the private means of the elderly or their relatives- or current government expenditure. The fair means scheme- was a reintroduction of death taxes by the back door- but far from condemning it- I think its to be applauded. If the government are to provide more community nurses, home help etc- let them take a whack of my estate when I die- its not going to be of any use to me one way or the other. Make it a fair tax though- x% across the board- regardless of how wealthy a person may be. If the rich want to pay for extra frills privately- let them. However provide communities nurses, homehelp and hot meals for those unable to do so themselves.

There is a presumption built into our current systems that the elderly are among the worse off in the communities- and that society should care for them- when in fact they rarely have mortgages and have assets far exceeding those of the average person- so while they should have care in their old age- there is no reason whatsoever that there shouldn't be a reasonable effort to recoup the cost of this care when they pass away.

I would also do away with the right of people to refuse assistance- unless a person can satisfactorily show they are capable of exceeding the basic rights of the community nurse/homehelp/mealschemes- they should be forced to accept this help.

Some older people see it as below themselves to admit they need help- regardless of how bad things get- I'm not sure where this mindset evolved from- but it is a bad thing........ Its the same mindset that refuse to use vouchers or coupons when they're shopping........ If I get a voucher from Huggies for a couple of quid off nappies- I'm damn well going to use (or indeed any other grocery vouchers).........

Should children be expected to care for their parents in their old age? There are plenty of reasons why they shouldn't- many detailed in previous posts in this thread. Historically the youngest girl stayed at home and gave up her life to care for her parents- or in farming communities- the son and daughter in-law inheriting the farm were expected to provide for their elderly parents. As a society we have moved on from this notion of self sacrifice, and towards an expectation that the state is responsible socially, for care of the elderly. I don't have an issue with this- but we do need to make Son no. 1 or daughter no. 3 aware that in recompense for the state caring for their parents (however this may be structured)- that there is a unilateral percentage of their estate going to the exchequer on their death- no more sweetheart deals for inheriting farms or any other assets.

What a great post.

The state does have to intervene. You can have daughter no.1 and son no.3 not caring and the person who suffers is the 80 year old pensioner with alzheimers who gets left to deal with the problems and son No.2 with little help.

No.1 and 3 get very interested when it comes to selling the house and passing on the belongings.

wonderfulname · 12-08-2011 2:17am

I think where an elderly person is capable of independence they should have it. Our demographics have shifted in part because a person no longer needs their children to look after them once they hit a certain age, pensions, life assurance and social welfare are there to take that mantle.

Now, if we are talking, not in fact about the elderly, but the elderly who have succumbed to age related conditions, then there is no universally correct answer. Both the state and the family have a role to play, as can private care homes and other facilities, but the balance is entirely personal, the needs, wants, and abilities of all individuals have to be taken into account. I admire people who give up so much to care for elderly relatives but I don't for one second think they are any way superior to those who don't, every situation is different, and you can't judge whether somebody has done the 'right' thing when you can't possibly know the true nature of that situation.

Off topic: I can't believe this is AH everyone is so well behaved!

UpCork · 12-08-2011 8:44am

My grandmother lived in fear or being put in a home, so Mum promised her that she never would be. She also had a fear of loosing her mind and her faculties. Although it was difficult for us when she did pass, we were consoled by the fact that she died at home (well in Mum's house) and was full "with it".

I would hope that I would be in a position for care for my Mother if she needed it. It is not something I like to think about but I know in my heart that I would do everything in my power to care for her. I'm not saying I won't need assistance or help. I know, though, it would be the end of her if she was put in a home.

Having said that I don't feel it is expected of me to care for her. However, she has done so much for me from the day that I was born, given up so much etc that I feel it is only right that I should do the same for her.

Joey the lips · 12-08-2011 8:53am

I dont really follow this arguement or subscribe to it and considering its in afterhours it will be confusing... But to make it simple.

I had my kids because i wanted to love someone. I want to see them grow and flourish. I would love them to be doctors, scientists or teachers but would be happy if them work in the lowest paid job and are happy.

I did not have my kids to look after me. My kids are not a savings scheme that i should expect a return on investment.

I expect the state to provide me with a pension when i retire and i expect propper healthcare. If i did not think i would have got it or had to pay for my own i would have moved to the US.

i cannot understand the injustice of society to allow kids look after there parents and simulary i cannot understand how adults can give valuable time to there own kids if they need to look after there parents.

Mr Benevolent · 12-08-2011 9:12am

Joey the lips wrote: »

i cannot understand the injustice of society to allow kids look after there parents and simulary i cannot understand how adults can give valuable time to there own kids if they need to look after there parents.

I don't understand this sentence tbh. I'm not being funny or sarcastic, I just don't know if you're contradicting yourself or think that parents should be left to get on with it.

This is an interesting debate. Everyone is however ignoring the fact that a fair percentage of us will eventually be unable to look after ourselves due to a number of factors. Thinking about that will change a lot of things.

Show Time · 12-08-2011 9:48am

Well there is no way in hell i would put my folks into a nursing home in this country.

supermonkey · 12-08-2011 2:36pm

My mother is a hale and hearty 70.
She will need to be cared for because she
[1] Gets Alzheimers
[2] Just gets old

If the latter I will be 66 when she is 90 and frail.
How can I possibly look after her when I will be old myself.

I can assure that only the oldest and the girl will feel any responsibility so my sister will end up with most of the unpleasant work and I will fund it.

The rest of them love our parents but younger siblings especially boys are completely selfishh!

kelle · 12-08-2011 2:57pm

I cared for my parents in their final weeks - both were diagnosed with cancer at the same time and died withing a few weeks of each other, very difficult as I had 2 small children at the time.

Being the only girl, they felt closest to me and wanted me with them for everything (including getting the bad news from doctors!) - and only felt comfortable with me doing intimate stuff like the bathing, toileting and changing clothes. It would have been torture for them having this done by strangers in a care home, and I am pleased I did it for them. Their minds were of perfect working order right up to the end, meaning I could still have great conversations with them.

Which brings me onto the subject of somebody with Dementia or Alzheimers - now that would be difficult to manage on your own. My mother (a few months before she was diagnosed) had helped care for her mother along with 2 of her sisters. My grandmother had Dementia and needed round the clock care, so these women were minding her in her own home every 3 days.
There were 6 others in the family who wouldn't help out (the wife of one of them said he wasn't "into that kind of thing" - yet he didn't want her going into a home!). It was soul destroying for them as my Grandmother was very contrary and demanding, and couldn't hold a conversation. Then Mum got sick, her 2 sisters had to be hospitalised for different ailments - so poor grandmother had to go into a private nursing home. She died there a year later.

All the negative stuff on the news about nursing homes is very scary. I wouldn't contemplate leaving my parents in one, don't know what I would have done if I ended up with no choice like my mother did.

saa · 12-08-2011 3:09pm

If they're abusive then no.

Should children be expected to care for their parents in old age?

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