What kind of tradesman do i need ?

mickman · 08-04-2014 2:33pm #1

Hi Guys

Sorry to put this in DIY as i wont be doing hte work myself but i have two problems that i need sorted and actually dont know what kind of fella i need ?

1. Gas boiler wont heat water unless its set to "heat water and gas" . if i set it to "water only" then nothing happens - = i Presume its a gas boiler maintenance chap ?

2. This is the more important one. Immersion is not working. I thought it was switch so i changed this (even though not sure of the cabelling as the replacement unit was slightly different than the original) - i get a red light to show power but thats about it. No water gets heated - when i flip the switch then i dont hear anything - before i would hear a sound that told me the water was being heated --- is this an electrician or a plumber i need ???

For the last while , the immersion wasnt heating all the water - i couldnt even fill a bath as it went cold. I live in a very very hard water area so maybe this is something to do with it ?

dodzy · 08-04-2014 3:53pm

mickman wrote: »

Hi Guys

Sorry to put this in DIY as i wont be doing hte work myself but i have two problems that i need sorted and actually dont know what kind of fella i need ?

1. Gas boiler wont heat water unless its set to "heat water and gas" . if i set it to "water only" then nothing happens - = i Presume its a gas boiler maintenance chap ?

2. This is the more important one. Immersion is not working. I thought it was switch so i changed this (even though not sure of the cabelling as the replacement unit was slightly different than the original) - i get a red light to show power but thats about it. No water gets heated - when i flip the switch then i dont hear anything - before i would hear a sound that told me the water was being heated --- is this an electrician or a plumber i need ???

For the last while , the immersion wasnt heating all the water - i couldnt even fill a bath as it went cold. I live in a very very hard water area so maybe this is something to do with it ?

You need a RGI for the boiler and a sparks / plumber for the immersion element replacement. The latter is a fairly simple DIY if you are anyway competent, assuming that it is the element that is at fault.

mickman · 08-04-2014 3:56pm

dodzy wrote: »

You need a RGI for the boiler and a sparks / plumber for the immersion element replacement. The latter is a fairly simple DIY if you are anyway competent, assuming that it is the element that is at fault.

how can i find out if its the element ? where is it located ?

Fries-With-That · 08-04-2014 5:34pm

mickman wrote: »

how can i find out if its the element ? where is it located ?

Hi Mickman,

I would suggest that you get a Plumber that is also a Registered Gas Installer.

He will fix your boiler and tell you how to proceed with the immersion issue.

In the meantime I would turn off the power to your immersion switch as you aren't sure if you have it wired correctly.

jimf · 08-04-2014 5:40pm

post this over on the plumbing and heating forum lot of good lads over there that are rgi and competent plumbers as well

if you post your area you should get a good recommendation

dodzy · 08-04-2014 6:07pm

mickman wrote: »

how can i find out if its the element ? where is it located ?

The element is located in the immersion tank within the hot press. If the tank is of a decent age, then it is most likely on the top of the cylinder off centre. The power supply cable links this to the ON/OFF - SINK/ BATH switch in the press.

Testing it involves isolating it from the power supply, and checking resistance of the elements with a multimeter. Again, as stated, if you are doubtful or uncertain, leave it to a trained person. An immersion will cost you in the region of €30 in a plumbing supply store. They do fail over time and this is most likely the issue in your situation. I'd imaging the cost of supply and fit would be circa €120.

Egass13 · 08-04-2014 6:09pm

mickman wrote: »

Hi Guys

Sorry to put this in DIY as i wont be doing hte work myself but i have two problems that i need sorted and actually dont know what kind of fella i need ?

1. Gas boiler wont heat water unless its set to "heat water and gas" . if i set it to "water only" then nothing happens - = i Presume its a gas boiler maintenance chap ?

2. This is the more important one. Immersion is not working. I thought it was switch so i changed this (even though not sure of the cabelling as the replacement unit was slightly different than the original) - i get a red light to show power but thats about it. No water gets heated - when i flip the switch then i dont hear anything - before i would hear a sound that told me the water was being heated --- is this an electrician or a plumber i need ???

For the last while , the immersion wasnt heating all the water - i couldnt even fill a bath as it went cold. I live in a very very hard water area so maybe this is something to do with it ?

What boiler is it ? Baxi system by any chance ?

mickman · 08-04-2014 8:22pm

Egass13 wrote: »

What boiler is it ? Baxi system by any chance ?

Yep. Any idea ?

brightspark · 08-04-2014 8:38pm

Could be the high temp cut out stat on the immersion, a red button sometimes brought out of the cover. Try resetting it once, if it goes again you need it looked at.

As you are in a hard water area, it's likely the immersion has failed.

Egass13 · 08-04-2014 9:40pm

mickman wrote: »

Yep. Any idea ?

I'm good aren't I

That boiler Dsnt heat hot water seperatly unless it's a combi , which I doubt it is if you also have hot water storage or the DHW relay board is wired in , which I've never actually seen . But they all use the same fascia . So no need for an rgi in this case . But no harm getting it serviced if it's due so as advised above get an rgi plumber to look at the immersion and service the boiler at the same time .

dodzy · 09-04-2014 7:34am

Egass13 wrote: »

I'm good aren't I That boiler Dsnt heat hot water seperatly unless it's a combi , which I doubt it is if you also have hot water storage or the DHW relay board is wired in , which I've never actually seen . But they all use the same fascia . So no need for an rgi in this case . But no harm getting it serviced if it's due so as advised above get an rgi plumber to look at the immersion and service the boiler at the same time .

OP refers to a switch setting of "Heat water & gas" or "water only". Surely it's a combi Egas or is it a summer valve that is referred to perhaps?

@OP. Did the "water only" function work up until recently? And how is it selected? Is it a valve on the plumbing circuit or a switch on the boiler control panel?

Egass13 · 09-04-2014 7:56am

dodzy wrote: »

OP refers to a switch setting of "Heat water & gas" or "water only". Surely it's a combi Egas or is it a summer valve that is referred to perhaps?

@OP. Did the "water only" function work up until recently? And how is it selected? Is it a valve on the plumbing circuit or a switch on the boiler control panel?

Very rare for it to be a combi , I've seen one in the last 5 yrs. even the heat only boilers have the option on the front , but it Dsnt do anything . For a combi you will have a seperate temp control for water beside the heating control. The fact that op has hot water storage and says nothing happens when he selects HW ,my money would be on a standard heat only system boiler . I get asked everyday why the hw function Dsnt work on them , that's how I knew what boiler he had!

mickman · 09-04-2014 10:50am

im 99% sure its a combi

The controls on the gas boiler is something you turn to the setting you want.

First setting is on , then on for heat and water and the last setting is for water only.

When i set it to heat and water then heat works fine and water gets heated (very slowly) but when i move it to the water only (picture of taps) then the lights are on the boiler but nothing happens!

to be honest its ages since we used it as we normally use the immersion but with the immersion busted we are back to the boiler :-)

Egass13 · 09-04-2014 11:19am

mickman wrote: »

im 99% sure its a combi

The controls on the gas boiler is something you turn to the setting you want.

First setting is on , then on for heat and water and the last setting is for water only.

When i set it to heat and water then heat works fine and water gets heated (very slowly) but when i move it to the water only (picture of taps) then the lights are on the boiler but nothing happens!

to be honest its ages since we used it as we normally use the immersion but with the immersion busted we are back to the boiler :-)

Fold the front flap down and on the right side you will see the model , what does it say ?
When you have the mode selector to rads/HW , it will heat the water indirectly in you hw storage tank , this Dsnt make it a combi . Have you got 2 temperature control knobs on the boiler , or one knob and one blank plate ? Post a photo of the front control panel if you can

mickman · 09-04-2014 11:57am

will do this 2nite

when i select rads / HW then the water isnt heating so could this all be coming from a faulty element in the hot tank ?

Egass13 · 09-04-2014 12:01pm

mickman wrote: »

will do this 2nite

when i select rads / HW then the water isnt heating so could this all be coming from a faulty element in the hot tank ?

Not really , most likely be a balancing valve issue or cylinder stat too low , if you have one .

dodzy · 09-04-2014 1:16pm

mickman wrote: »

will do this 2nite

when i select rads / HW then the water isnt heating so could this all be coming from a faulty element in the hot tank ?

Post a pic of the immersion tank and associated valves / pipework connected to it also.

mickman · 14-04-2014 12:10pm

here are pictures of boiler

Egass13 · 14-04-2014 8:14pm

mickman wrote: »

here are pictures of boiler

Yeah it's not a combi. Get an rgi plumber to solve your problem and service it at the same time , might be somebody on here near you if you post your general location

mickman · 14-04-2014 9:23pm

Thanks

Location is mallow

mickman · 15-04-2014 11:41am

Egass13 wrote: »

Yeah it's not a combi. Get an rgi plumber to solve your problem and service it at the same time , might be somebody on here near you if you post your general location

Hey, earlier in the post, you said "I'm good aren't I That boiler Dsnt heat hot water seperatly unless it's a combi"

so that means that turning the dial to water only wont work anyway as its not a combi , does that mean i have no problem with the gas boiler ?

When i turn it to water then the rads get hot also, it takes ages for the water to get hot but it does get hot, maybe this is the way gas works when heating water ?

if it wasnt a combi then the water should never get hot ??

I dont know as i never use it, usually use immersion

Egass13 · 15-04-2014 12:02pm

mickman wrote: »

Hey, earlier in the post, you said "I'm good aren't I That boiler Dsnt heat hot water seperatly unless it's a combi"

so that means that turning the dial to water only wont work anyway as its not a combi , does that mean i have no problem with the gas boiler ?

When i turn it to water then the rads get hot also, it takes ages for the water to get hot but it does get hot, maybe this is the way gas works when heating water ?

if it wasnt a combi then the water should never get hot ??

I dont know as i never use it, usually use immersion

I also said your water will heat indirectly thru the coil in the cylinder! This is perfectly normal . It Dsnt make it a combi , because a combi will give instant hot water upon demand . And do away with the need for a HW storage cylinder .

mickman · 15-04-2014 12:09pm

Egass13 wrote: »

I also said your water will heat indirectly thru the coil in the cylinder! This is perfectly normal . It Dsnt make it a combi , because a combi will give instant hot water upon demand . And do away with the need for a HW storage cylinder .

ok i get you so. it means my gas boiler is ok though ? is it normal for it take a fair while to heat the water ?

still not sure if its a sparks or a plumber for the immersion issue :-)

Egass13 · 15-04-2014 1:25pm

mickman wrote: »

ok i get you so. it means my gas boiler is ok though ? is it normal for it take a fair while to heat the water ?

still not sure if its a sparks or a plumber for the immersion issue :-)

Shouldn't take very long , depends on a few things , balancing etc . I'd get a competent rgi plumber in to change immersion and as I suggested before , service your boiler and make sure everything is working the way it should

mickman · 15-04-2014 1:46pm

ok so an rgi dude should know the immersion stuff also ?

Sir Arthur Daley · 15-04-2014 2:52pm

mickman wrote: »

ok so an rgi dude should know the immersion stuff also ?

A Registered electrician would be better, he would have test equipment, diagnose the problem more efficiently, get a plumber to fit new immersion if its the case and get electrician back to do the electrical tests to verify that its 100% safe and you will be issued with a cert upon completion.
Wiring up an immersion and checking to see if tank is getting hot 10 minutes later seems to be widely accepted by alot of tradesmen as signature all is well and job is complete, how wrong that theory is.

dodzy · 15-04-2014 3:17pm

Sir Arther Daley wrote: »

A Registered electrician would be better, he would have test equipment, diagnose the problem more efficiently, get a plumber to fit new immersion if its the case and get electrician back to do the electrical tests to verify that its 100% safe and you will be issued with a cert upon completion.
Wiring up an immersion and checking to see if tank is getting hot 10 minutes later seems to be widely accepted by alot of tradesmen as signature all is well and job is complete, how wrong that theory is.

2 x electrical & 1 plumber call-out for an immersion replacement ? You'd want to have a bulging wallet.

mickman · 15-04-2014 3:38pm

dodzy wrote: »

2 x electrical & 1 plumber call-out for an immersion replacement ? You'd want to have a bulging wallet.

i agree so which is it, electrician or a plumber. who is more likely to have both skills

dodzy · 15-04-2014 5:03pm

mickman wrote: »

i agree so which is it, electrician or a plumber. who is more likely to have both skills

I'd say there's a better chance with a plumber, although I'm sure that there are regd sparks out there that have tackled them before. Post your location on the P&H forum. I'm sure there are plenty of sound lads that will PM you.

Egass13 · 15-04-2014 6:02pm

dodzy wrote: »

2 x electrical & 1 plumber call-out for an immersion replacement ? You'd want to have a bulging wallet.

+1 . As I said , a COMPETANT rgi/plumber is all you need. That word makes all the difference

Sir Arthur Daley · 16-04-2014 1:50pm

Egass13 wrote: »

+1 . As I said , a COMPETANT rgi/plumber is all you need. That word makes all the difference

Does a Competant rgi/plumber own electrical test equipment to do the electrical tests necessary to be 100% sure that the electrical side of the job is safe and correct?

Egass13 · 16-04-2014 1:52pm

Sir Arther Daley wrote: »

Does a Competant rgi/plumber own electrical test equipment to do the electrical tests necessary to be 100% sure that the electrical side of the job is safe and correct?

I do . What type of test equipment is it you are referring to exactly ? It's an immersion we are talking about here , not a new fuse board . If the Competant person can't carry out these tests and guarantee his work , then I put it to you that man is not very competant ... My good sir ..

Sir Arthur Daley · 16-04-2014 2:11pm

Egass13 wrote: »

What type of test equipment is it you are referring to exactly ?

Test equipment to test/verify polarity and earthing, fault loop impedance and RCD trip time.

It's an immersion we are talking about here , not a new fuse board .

Do you think the above tests are unnecessary after fitment of a new immersion?

mickman · 17-04-2014 10:41am

ok so i have an update.

Asked the chap next door to take a look yesterday evening and he found one of the blue boxes (motor) was faulty - the thing was stuck in one way so this is why the rads downstairs was coming on with the water all the time (and also why the water was taking so long to heat up)

So he moved this to the other direction and now the water heats up super quick and the rads dont come on (obviously i have to flip the lever back in order to get the rads on again but he is going to replace this unit)

so panic over thankfully, next to tackle the immersion. I hope to get the cover off at the weekend and reset it , thanks for all the help so far

Sleeper12 · 18-04-2014 5:27pm

mickman wrote: »

Hi Guys

Sorry to put this in DIY as i wont be doing hte work myself but i have two problems that i need sorted and actually dont know what kind of fella i need ?

1. Gas boiler wont heat water unless its set to "heat water and gas" . if i set it to "water only" then nothing happens - = i Presume its a gas boiler maintenance chap ?

2. This is the more important one. Immersion is not working. I thought it was switch so i changed this (even though not sure of the cabelling as the replacement unit was slightly different than the original) - i get a red light to show power but thats about it. No water gets heated - when i flip the switch then i dont hear anything - before i would hear a sound that told me the water was being heated --- is this an electrician or a plumber i need ???

For the last while , the immersion wasnt heating all the water - i couldnt even fill a bath as it went cold. I live in a very very hard water area so maybe this is something to do with it ?

Rgi for the boiler. Illegal to let anyone else work on a gas boiler

The element is more a plumbers job than an electrician but some electricians do it. This is NOT a diy job. If done wrong your cylinder can leak & could need replacing. You can test the element with a multi meter. The fact that it was only heating the top part suggests that the the bottom part of the element failed some time ago. Now both parts of the element have failed so you have no heat at all now.
You should be able to get a plumber or electrician to replace it for around €130 parts and labour.
Please don't try it yourself.
Good luck

What kind of tradesman do i need ?

Comments