Three to buy O2 Ireland for €780 million

SpaceTime · 28-05-2014 12:46pm

Making sure the MVNO market is open is a really big deal though.

Tesco in particular had a very big impact.

I wonder what's going to become of them now given that O2 (their partner network) is now 3...

Heraldoffreeent · 28-05-2014 1:39pm

SpaceTime wrote: »

Making sure the MVNO market is open is a really big deal though.

Tesco in particular had a very big impact.

I wonder what's going to become of them now given that O2 (their partner network) is now 3...

They, and UPC, are the two MVNO's mentioned, for whom 30% of the network is being made available.
Whats not mentioned in this is how much TMI and UPC will pay for this access. The normal process to date has been cents per mb, text and minute wholesale, with this it seems the two MVNO's will pay a flat fee per annum. Theres no mention of how thats to be regulated or what mechanism will be used to calculate a fair price.

SpaceTime · 28-05-2014 2:19pm

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

They, and UPC, are the two MVNO's mentioned, for whom 30% of the network is being made available.
Whats not mentioned in this is how much TMI and UPC will pay for this access. The normal process to date has been cents per mb, text and minute wholesale, with this it seems the two MVNO's will pay a flat fee per annum. Theres no mention of how thats to be regulated or what mechanism will be used to calculate a fair price.

Yeah, it's a little too vague although it is only a memo. I'd like to see the full report before I cast judgment.
I am guessing though that ComReg may be given the role of coming up with that price? It seems like the only logically placed body to do that.

watty · 28-05-2014 5:14pm

clohamon wrote: »

Silo'd bandwidth (lower speeds) and reduced coverage. It's a useless decision.

The Commission seems to think reduced coverage in rural areas is a good thing - more 'efficient' they say - i.e. more profitable for networks.

Earlier today I noted the deal will result in lower capacity, lower coverage.

I only implied a poorer service. Problem is there is no genuine monitoring and enforcement of standards by Regulator, nor good enough licence conditions in the first place. Too much emphasis on "Competition" and not enough on good use of a limited National Resource and technical competence.

bealtine · 28-05-2014 5:21pm

Amazing even Comreg are not too happy:

http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/ComReg1453.pdf

"ComReg remains concerned that, given the substance and form of the Final Commitments, the EC’s competition concerns will not be fully addressed, and that significant negative consequences for Irish consumer welfare may result. In that regard, ComReg’s primary concerns with the Final Commitments are, in summary, as follows:
they appear inadequate and ineffective to address the serious competition
concerns and consumer harm identified by the EC (for example higher
prices);and
they do not appear to comply with the EC’s requirements as set out in its
Remedies Notice."

"ComReg remains of the strong view that the behavioural
commitments are insufficient to address the structural competition deficit
identified as likely to result from the Proposed Acquisition."

bealtine · 28-05-2014 5:24pm

I guess the name is fortuitous : Chinese billionaire Li Ka-shing. Thanks EU Li Ka-shing is going Ka-ching all the way to the bank

SpaceTime · 28-05-2014 5:31pm

bealtine wrote: »

Amazing even Comreg are not too happy:

http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/ComReg1453.pdf

"ComReg remains concerned that, given the substance and form of the Final Commitments, the EC’s competition concerns will not be fully addressed, and that significant negative consequences for Irish consumer welfare may result. In that regard, ComReg’s primary concerns with the Final Commitments are, in summary, as follows:
they appear inadequate and ineffective to address the serious competition
concerns and consumer harm identified by the EC (for example higher
prices);and
they do not appear to comply with the EC’s requirements as set out in its
Remedies Notice."

"ComReg remains of the strong view that the behavioural
commitments are insufficient to address the structural competition deficit
identified as likely to result from the Proposed Acquisition."

That's very interesting. ComReg seems to be a little unhappy with the decision. Surely the Irish Competition Authority would have been a more appropriate entity to rule on this merger? The European one is only really concerned about things that impact dramatically on intra-EU stuff. Hence, their concern about Aer Lingus / Ryanair as it was impacting on multiple countries (IRL + UK in particular but also flights into Ireland from other EU countries)

bealtine · 29-05-2014 6:13pm

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/37088-vodafone-may-take-legal/

The Cush · 30-05-2014 1:27am

EU press release and memo on the merger

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-14-607_en.htm
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-14-387_en.htm

cgarvey · 30-05-2014 12:36pm

SpaceTime wrote: »

Surely the Irish Competition Authority would have been a more appropriate entity to rule on this merger?

Yup. The release even has that question in there. They provide 2 paragraphs of guff without answering the question, though!

Rucking_Fetard · 16-07-2014 7:28pm

Deal Done.

_Jumper_ · 23-01-2015 12:42am

Off buying O2 UK for £9 Billion now.

techworld.com/news/networking/three-in-talks-buy-o2-from-telefonica-for-up-9bn-3594749/

watty · 01-02-2015 10:48am

Oh dear. Poor them.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 01-02-2015 1:45pm

I see the store rebranding is well underway.

JTMan · 01-02-2015 10:20pm

Which stores have you noticed a rebrand on?

abyss · 26-02-2015 12:42am

Anyone know if there is a chance O2 base stations will be working with 4G(three) soon? I mean - if they can be upgraded to 4G system. I've read notice from County Council there will be some improvement done on O2 BTS near me, but there is a no more technical information.

ItHurtsWhenIP · 26-02-2015 11:19am

abyss wrote: »

Anyone know if there is a chance O2 base stations will be working with 4G(three) soon? I mean - if they can be upgraded to 4G system. I've read notice from County Council there will be some improvement done on O2 BTS near me, but there is a no more technical information.

I'm wondering this myself. I only get Edge from O2 at home, but there is good 3G coverage from Three in the area.

Bob24 · 26-02-2015 11:25am

abyss wrote: »

Anyone know if there is a chance O2 base stations will be working with 4G(three) soon? I mean - if they can be upgraded to 4G system. I've read notice from County Council there will be some improvement done on O2 BTS near me, but there is a no more technical information.

I don't think there has been any clear announcement from Three, but I certainly hope so.

O2 was getting ready for a 4G roll-out and put that on hold after the buyout announcement. It is probably taking a bit of time because Three doesn't want to flick the switch for O2 customers only and needs to merge their infrastructure with O2's first - but I think once this is done they will be able to roll-out a much better 4G coverage very quickly.

clohamon · 26-02-2015 11:37am

Bob24 wrote: »

I don't think there has been any clear announcement from Three, but I certainly hope so.

O2 was getting ready for a 4G roll-out and put that on hold after the buyout announcement. It is probably taking a bit of time because Three doesn't want to flick the switch for O2 customers only and needs to merge their infrastructure with O2's first - but I think once this is done they will be able to roll-out a much better 4G coverage very quickly.

The coverage obligation in their (O2 and Three and Vodafone) liberalised-use licences is 35% of population, or 0.36% of the national territory. There is no obligation to provide any particular technology; it can be 2g, 3g or 4g.

SpaceTime · 26-02-2015 12:42pm

They will have to announce 4G for O2 customers soon as they're going to lose out to Vodafone and Meteor if they don't.
The licence is one thing, the market reality is that the other networks have growing 4G coverage.

clohamon · 26-02-2015 1:24pm

SpaceTime wrote: »

The licence is one thing, the market reality is that the other networks have growing 4G coverage.

That's the ComReg argument; it might turn out to be true, but the licence conditions encourage operators to increase profits by reducing the size/cost of their networks, not by introducing new technology.

I think people in rural areas generally use whichever operator has the best voice service in the area that they most need it. Data speed comes after that.

SpaceTime · 26-02-2015 2:34pm

I'm not so sure about that tbh. With smartphones data is more important than voice.

Many people barely use their phones for voice these days.

The paradigm has shifted from data being an add-on on a phone to voice being an app on a smart device.

It's not even very easy to buy a non smartphone anymore. I had terrible difficulty getting one for an elderly relative and she has gone for a HTC instead.

oscarBravo · 26-02-2015 3:57pm

SpaceTime wrote: »

Many people barely use their phones for voice these days.

And many people's livelihoods are completely and utterly dependent on a mobile voice network.

The bizarre idea that voice is unimportant seems to be an unfortunately corollary to the idea that mobile data is broadband. Mobile voice is business-critical; mobile data is extremely useful (and can be business-critical); mobile broadband is an oxymoron.

Bob24 · 26-02-2015 5:56pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

And many people's livelihoods are completely and utterly dependent on a mobile voice network.

The bizarre idea that voice is unimportant seems to be an unfortunately corollary to the idea that mobile data is broadband. Mobile voice is business-critical; mobile data is extremely useful (and can be business-critical); mobile broadband is an oxymoron.

Personally if I had to choose between voice service only or data service only, I would most likely go for the later. Not that I don't need voice at all, but losing data would be more of an annoyance to me (and a good bit of my voice calls and text messages are going through the data network anyway).

If course different people have a different use of their phone, but there is a decent chunk of customers (but probably not a majority) for whom data is the most important service.

SpaceTime · 26-02-2015 7:35pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

And many people's livelihoods are completely and utterly dependent on a mobile voice network.

The bizarre idea that voice is unimportant seems to be an unfortunately corollary to the idea that mobile data is broadband. Mobile voice is business-critical; mobile data is extremely useful (and can be business-critical); mobile broadband is an oxymoron.

It might well be, but if you've no data and other networks do, a huge % of customers will vote with their feet.

You might as well just not have a smartphone without a data connection (and a fast one at that)

oscarBravo · 27-02-2015 12:19am

The point being debated was this one:

clohamon wrote: »

I think people in rural areas generally use whichever operator has the best voice service in the area that they most need it. Data speed comes after that.

If your business depends on people being able to call you while you're on the road, then data is a distant second to reliable voice coverage; and remember, if a network doesn't have voice coverage in an area, it most definitely doesn't have data.

yuloni · 27-02-2015 12:58am

This post has been deleted.

SpaceTime · 27-02-2015 7:32am

They have a fairly huge contract with Nokia to integrate the 2G and 3G assets into a single network and also upgrade them.

So I'm guessing there's a fair bit of work going on. It's not just going to be roaming.

Bob24 · 27-02-2015 9:19am

yuloni wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I don't think just opening Three's 4G network to O2 customers will work. On Threee 4G in Dublin City centre, you'd be very happy to get 10mpbs download speeds, and it is often closer to 5. Add O2 customers to this, and you might not even get 3G speeds. They really need O2's network to become 4G enabled before they offer 4G to everyone.

Also, in a number of areas (I sometimes see it in Dublin), they have already opened O2's 2G network for Three customers. The phone will display "3." Instead of "3" when connected to it.

cgarvey · 27-02-2015 9:40am

o2 have been saying June for their 4G service, in the several hundred emails/SMSs sent to customers!

yuloni · 27-02-2015 12:30pm

This post has been deleted.

Bob24 · 27-02-2015 12:56pm

yuloni wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I would think so as well - especially since their original 4G licence didn't allow them to use lower frequencies which work much better for indoor coverage (I can see this in my office block in Dublin city centre - 4G coverage is very fine in front of the building - but is a but of a hit an miss inside, while there is no issue with 3G).

I think they are concentrating their efforts into leveraging the 4G infrastructure O2 was ready to launch before the buyout, which is much better than what Three would ever have been able to deliver with their original network.

And since it would look bad to give it to O2 customers only (giving better service to customer of the sister company that is bound to disappear), they have to wait until the networks are merged before they start using O2's capabilities.

JohnC. · 27-02-2015 9:54pm

Are they not completely rebranding O2 as 3? I was under the impression they were and O2 would disappear. But the Waterford O2 store closed to be refit, which I assumed would include rebranding. But new O2 signs were up there today.

Bob24 · 27-02-2015 10:22pm

Kahless wrote: »

Are they not completely rebranding O2 as 3? I was under the impression they were and O2 would disappear. But the Waterford O2 store closed to be refit, which I assumed would include rebranding. But new O2 signs were up there today.

They did say the O2 brand would disappear. I guess it is difficult for them to phase it out before the 2 networks are actually merged, but it is strange alright to refurbish a shop with the O2 branding at this stage.

watty · 28-02-2015 3:21pm

They are completely rebranding. O2 web site will be gone soon.

C.f. UPC took ages to rebrand NTL & Chorus.

Mr. G · 28-02-2015 4:05pm

yuloni wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

They already have for me, I'm with 3 but can connect to 3. (which is O2 by process of elimination on a network search). I can connect to Vodafone's 2G and O2's 2G networks. Only get 3G & 4G with 3.

yuloni · 28-02-2015 4:15pm

This post has been deleted.

bealtine · 02-03-2015 6:53pm

Press release...err news item sorry.

O2 customers to get 4G from June as Three rebrand completes

http://www.techcentral.ie/o2-customers-get-4g-june-three-rebrand-completes/

Davy · 02-03-2015 6:59pm

bealtine wrote: »

Press release...err news item sorry.

O2 customers to get 4G from June as Three rebrand completes

http://www.techcentral.ie/o2-customers-get-4g-june-three-rebrand-completes/

It will be €4.99 from July 1st for billpay and payg though

http://www.three.ie/terms-conditions/promotions/4g-access-promotional-offer/

bealtine · 03-03-2015 5:25pm

O2 has now gone for good from Ireland – so what’s the deal for all its customers?

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/o2-rebranded-three-1970254-Mar2015/

Bob24 · 03-03-2015 6:04pm

bealtine wrote: »

O2 has now gone for good from Ireland – so what’s the deal for all its customers?

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/o2-rebranded-three-1970254-Mar2015/

"O2 MOBILE PHONE customers can eventually look forward to higher data speeds after all their accounts were transferred yesterday to new owner Three!"

Free advertisement from thejournal.ie? :-)

If I was an O2 customer I wouldn't hold my breath. I made the move from O2 3G to Three 4G a few months ago and while peak speeds on speedtest.net are higher, the average speed isn't really better and the quality of service is much less consistent.

Stayed with Three because the particular plan is much cheaper for my needs - but wouldn't have been happy if I had kept the O2 pricing for that service.

bealtine · 03-03-2015 7:03pm

Bob24 wrote: »

Free advertisement from thejournal.ie? :-)

This is what passes for journalism these days

clohamon · 06-03-2015 2:52pm

The full Commission Decision (v.long pdf) on this merger, including the market remedies, was published just before Christmas.

There was a discussion of it at BEREC (the regulators' association) by one of the Commission's economists* (15 mins long, starts at 2 mins). The slideshow of that presentation is available here.

The view expressed in the presentation was that O2/Three's prices would increase by 5-8% in the post paid sector, as a result of the merger, and that prices overall in that sector would also increase by 4-6%.

watty · 07-03-2015 7:20am

Quality of managing the network and honesty of marketing etc ignored.

mass_debater · 24-03-2015 6:48pm

Three UK have also bought O2
http://www.engadget.com/2015/03/24/three-uk-buys-o2

bealtine · 24-03-2015 9:12pm

mass_debater wrote: »

Three UK have also bought O2

No surprise there then, it's been on the market for a while

Pete69 · 28-02-2017 9:44pm

Both networks are a complete shambles now, as they try to consolidate them and rollout 4G all at once for as little investment as possible. Vodafone must be loving this.

clohamon · 28-02-2017 10:19pm

Pete69 wrote: »

Both networks are a complete shambles now, as they try to consolidate them and rollout 4G all at once for as little investment as possible. Vodafone must be loving this.

Very hard to see how the Hutchison 3g licences could be compliant. Comreg seems to have adopted new conditions for the licences.

https://www.comreg.ie/media/dlm_uploads/2016/12/ComReg-16113.pdf

9. The current Drive Test is designed to give an indication of the MNOs performance in relation to individual licence conditions during the period that the route is driven. Furthermore, the Drive Test does not measure end user experience as it does not assess how well each MNO has integrated its various technology platforms which as the end users device roams between them strongly influences the perceived end user experience.

10. It is noted that due to differences in both handsets and SIM (“Subscriber Identity Module”) provisioning, not all end users have the ability to access each of the MNOs technologies or bands.

https://twitter.com/irelandoffline/status/834465266218258432

Three to buy O2 Ireland for €780 million

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