How many teachers are unemployed??

The story of my secondary teaching career ....

There were no jobs in teaching when I qualified ... unless you had pull. I emigrated and worked abroad for a few years and not as a teacher. My typing course in Sight and Sound done when I was 17 is what got me places!! I returned to Ireland and got a full time office manager job with someone in a start up situation. I finished that job (at this stage married, with kid) and decided to make a stab at subbing. I got a couple of maternity leaves and then got part-time hours in a plc - 2 hours a week. And believe it or not I was lucky to be in the right place at the right time - I got a full-time permanent job!!! I was 37 when this happened and I love my job. I don't know if I'd love my job trying to control a bunch of hormonal 16/17 year olds in some school though.

So getting on is a matter of luck but no so much pull any more. Working abroad really helped my career in the plc sector - I had industrial experience as well as teaching experience. I had travelled and grafted and do you know, that's what it boils down to. I never take my good luck for granted. It is soul destroying and it is a pain and you never know what the eventual outcome will be when you are teacher job hunting. All I can say is the wheel turns ... if you're persistent and good enough it'll come round for you

Rosita wrote: »

Do you seriously think that the people who organise and teach that course work only on that course? The Education Department of a University operates many courses. And lecturers operate across different faculties.

So are you are telling me that stopping the running of these training courses would actually COST the country money ? phew I'm not saying I don't believe you but if thats the truth then there must be opportunities for cost savings in this area.

Meanwhile if you have any suggestions to solve the issue of unemployment among teachers please let us know.

dillo2k10 wrote: »

I am doing my leaving cert this year and I plan on going into secondary teaching.
I know that there is a big chance that I won't get a job. However over 50% of teachers are aged over 50. So that means that half of teachers will be retired withing the next 15 years. That will be over 10,000 teaching jobs becoming available. Of course class sizes may get much bigger and not all of them will be re-hired.
I was also talking to my school principal and she said that she would prefer to hire newly graduated teachers than those who have been out of work the last few years.

I am also aware of a teacher in my school who is teaching the same subjects that I hope to and he is retiring in about 7 years. My parents are friends with the vice principal and kinda know the principal aswel as a lot of the teachers in the school. So that may help me to get job. But I know that I am not guaranteed one and I am willing to accept that I may not get a job.

This is what I would call forward planning - the Leaving Cert still ahead of you and a specific job in a specific school and the necessary procedure to get it identified already. And I suppose being willing to accept it's not guaranteed is a help, but your parents knowing the Principal and Vice-Principal should definitely swing it I would say.

Rosita wrote: »

So are you are telling me that stopping the running of these training courses would actually COST the country money?

This sentence makes no sense to me and relates to nothing I have said. What I am telling you is that your implication that if the course ceased to exist all the costs associated with its provision suddenly evaporate seems dubious.

so we are in agreement then .. i.e. it would not cost the country money if these courses were stopped.

Rosita wrote: »

You appear to believe that the buildings and staff involved in the provision of the PGDE are exclusive to that course and were that course to cease to exist then all of these would be redundant.

I never said ALL resources would be redundant.
If these courses were stopped there would be SOME redundancies and most definitely they're should be cost savings and not incurring of additional cost as you inferred by your "government have a vested interest in keeping the courses going because they get €6500 per student". but anyway I have taken this argument with regards to the costs of providing teacher training to the state as far as I want to in this thread. I don't think it adds much to the discussion of currently unemployed teachers so lets agree to disagree.

Rosita wrote: »

My understanding is that these people/facilities were/are involved in the provision of many other courses too as certainly the university I attended goes in big time for cross-pollination of courses/faculties.

But then again I only did the PGDE. You have the apparent advantage of lack of familiarity with it so you can afford to make sweeping statements about it that I know make little sense.

just because someone hasn't done a PGDE and is not a teacher doesn't mean I can't have an opinion and share it on a public forum.

fair play to you for engaging with me,even though you found my posts a bit confusing and haven't yourself responded to my prompting for any suggestions of your own.

Cost savings will need to be made over the coming years in the university sector too just like every other area of public spending.
The PGDE might only be one course of the many that are run by numerous colleges at the moment. in the future who is to say that there won't be rationalisation in the sector. i.e. does a country with the pop of greater manchester really need so many colleges. Interesting debate in itself but one for another day.

deemark wrote: »

Your logic and your figures are off there. Even if your figures were right, the retirees will not be automatically replaced by NQTs. If you read regularly through this forum, you will see that there are a huge amount of unemployed teachers, teachers on very low hours and teachers barely getting by on subbing. All of these people will be filling these (dubious) 10,000 positions, before the 15 years worth of graduates from the PGDE and the returning graduates from the UK and that's not accounting for the possibility of the pupil-teacher ratio going up.

If it's your dream job, go for it, just don't go into it thinking that you will have a job at the end of it, never mind a specific one.

I know now that the figures are all wrong. They were just given to me by another teacher.

And if 10,000 positions were to become available I would think that the schools would rather have NQT rather then people who havn't done anything in teaching for the last 10 years.

I know that I may not have any job at the end of it all, but it is definitely the job that I want. I will continue to go after it until the end. I will also not be stopping at the degree I get at the start. I will be going for my masters at least.

There is a chance that the number jobs will go down even further, but there is also a chance that the gov will start putting more money into education in 5-10 years time.

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

The dip costs around €6500. I don't think it actually costs the university that much to run.

I think anybody familiar with the Dip would be astonished if it was not making a tidy sum for the universities given the phenomenal revenue garnered every year and the apparently relatively low cost of provision with more than half the time during the course spent away from the university. It's one of the great 'bums on seats' courses - no major equipment required and I'd be surprised if the first 40 or 50 students didn't cover the entire cost of the course provision.

Just to clarify those figures, 35% of teachers have over 20 years service, not half. Also there are a lot of unemployed teachers who are waiting for all these supposed jobs out there. I'd still not let it put me off but would choose my subjects carefully and take college seriously enough to do well.

deemark wrote: »

I think you're missing the point - there are thousands of unemployed and subbing NQTs and teachers who only have a few hours looking for jobs at the moment. These numbers are only going to be added to every year as new graduates come out of PGDE courses, which should really be reducing their intake to reflect this.

I'm not trying to put you off, just arguing the point about the employment prospects. Teaching is a great job if you love it and can get a position.:)

I do agree that they should be taking in less teachers to train.

I would at least cut it in half (if not more) and increase the requirements too.

chunli_boom wrote: »

Just wondring if there is any definite figures for the amount of unemployed teachers out there?

Or better yet the number of unemployed NQTs? I'm just feeling so down that I've worked so hard last year in the P.G.D.E course and I haven't even gotten an interview....boourns!

unless you have a very obscure subject combination there are plenty of jobs out there. the problem is having to move to another town, which a lot of people these days are not prepared to do. they would rather stay at home, say there are no jobs and live off the generous welfare payments than move to where the jobs are.

Rosita wrote: »

1) What I wrote was "This sentence makes no sense to me". Not sure how you see that as synonymous with "it would not cost the country money if these courses were stopped". It was merely an acknowledgement that I hadn't a clue what you were trying to say.

2) Indeed. It just means that your opinion is much less informed than it might be. I never questioned your right to have an opinion, I simply asserted my right to suggest that the opinion you offer is coming from a position of complete ignorance of the PGDE and the set-up in the average university - and it shows as far as I can see.

I may have started out with a "position of ignorance" but I'm a quick learner

So with your lower level of ignorance about these matters what suggestions do you have?

Are you happy enough with keeping things the way they are ?

gollem_1975 wrote: »

good answer.

this is basically a straight answer to a question I asked you a few pages back.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68802456&postcount=66

we got there eventually.

Gollem

Perhaps I should be gratified that you consider my perception of things tantamount to fact, but unfortunately it's not.

What you asked was "Are these courses self-financing?" My straight answer? - I don't know. To repeat something I wrote a few posts back, I am not privy to that information, the cost model and accounting practices of universities etc.

My other view is opinion/perception/guesswork/informed (as in I have done the course and have some idea what it's like) assumption but assumption nonetheless.

You can infer what you will from that but I would never proffer my assumptions/perceptions as fact. Use of phrases such as "I think anybody familiar with the Dip would be astonished" and "I'd be surprised" should be giveaways as to the nature of my commentary.

If you are on a crusade to save the great taxpayer a fortune you need to be a bit more rigorous in your acceptance of sources.

niamhcat3 wrote: »

I have recently found out that I will need to defer my Dip year for medical reasons. Does anyone know if this is possible?

I think you should ring the Department on Monday.

In the meantime, your best bet would be to go to www.educationposts.ie and search their message board in case others have been in your position, or ask your question on the message board. Good luck!

It was always stated on the PAC literature for the PDGE in recent years that it was not possible to defer the course. You had to re-apply at the next opportunity.

bmarley wrote: »

There are lots of teaching positions advertised on the fas website - 9 month contracts.

Are they the WP contracts? If so, then the teacher will be paid the dole and will not be employed by the Board of Management of the school. They will not be allowed formally sub in the school if days do arise, and cannot apply for any position in the school while on the FÁS contract.

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

A girl in our school had her dip deferred due to pregnancy.

Obviously there's more flexibility than the literature suggests so.