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washing recyclables?

  • 27-06-2013 6:47pm
    #1
    Grawns
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭


    Milk containers, Tetra paks, bean cans, yogurt containers etc.

    Is this environmentally friendly or a waste of time    ? Thinking of water usage and detergent and with water charges coming...

    I pay €5 for my green bin and it's always full to capacity ( and more) but put out very little rubbish. Rubbish is cheaper to dispose of so I'm already making a financial sacrifice.

    Thanks

    ps. They doubled the cost of my green bin because of my lack of spend on rubbish


Comments

  • #2
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    I can't see the problem, you shouldn't be wasting fresh water on washing recyclables if you wash them in the same water when you've finished the regular washing up. If you can't do this because you're using a dishwasher....you're probably already being environmentally wasteful.


  • #3
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Grawns wrote: »
    Is this environmentally friendly or a waste of time? Thinking of water usage and detergent and with water charges coming...
    Detergent? They only need a rinse - they don't have to be sparkling!
    Judgement Day wrote: »
    ...you're probably already being environmentally wasteful.
    Who isn't?


  • #4
    beazee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭beazee


    Spend three days at the waste facility sorting line, separating plastics, paper, metal from other stuff.

    Having that experience I know the workers there are grateful for me rinsing leftover organic matter of every recyclable before I fire it into the bin.

    The smell of half empty cans or takeway boxes sitting in the bin for weeks before collected made your legs weak and I'm rather a big fella.

    So please - pour a little water in, swirl, pour off and throw away.


  • #5
    Grawns
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Grawns


    beazee wrote: »
    Spend three days at the waste facility sorting line, separating plastics, paper, metal from other stuff.

    Having that experience I know the workers there are grateful for me rinsing leftover organic matter of every recyclable before I fire it into the bin.

    The smell of half empty cans or takeway boxes sitting in the bin for weeks before collected made your legs weak and I'm rather a big fella.

    So please - pour a little water in, swirl, pour off and throw away.

    That's what I figured but appearently washing it defeats the environmental benefit when recycling messy food containers. My fear is that if you don't give it a clean it will be rejected and go to landfill at twice the cost to me and no environmental benefit. Can you confirm that doesn't happen?

    p.s. Perhaps the worst job ever!


  • #6
    Grawns
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Grawns


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    I can't see the problem, you shouldn't be wasting fresh water on washing recyclables if you wash them in the same water when you've finished the regular washing up. If you can't do this because you're using a dishwasher....you're probably already being environmentally wasteful.

    :confused:Just to clarify - are you stating that using a dishwasher is less environmentally sound than doing regular washing up or that washing recylables in fresh water is a waste of time.


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  • #7
    beazee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭beazee


    Grawns wrote: »
    but appearently washing it defeats...
    Rinsing, bit of water, no detergent.
    if you don't give it a clean it will be rejected and go to landfill
    AFAIC the customer (manufacturing facility) looks to buy a rather clean plastics as they're paying by weight. No point trying to sell them half recyclable/half leftover food as this would cost them more in a long run to clean and dispose the waste.
    Perhaps the worst job ever!
    Bills won't pay themselves.


  • #8
    Grawns
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Grawns


    beazee wrote: »
    Rinsing, bit of water, no detergent.

    AFAIC the customer (manufacturing facility) looks to buy a rather clean plastics as they're paying by weight. No point trying to sell them half recyclable/half leftover food as this would cost them more in a long run to clean and dispose the waste.

    .


    Lets say it's a yogurt carton, a quick rinse makes no difference to dairy but all the difference to an orange juice carton. I am inclined to bin the yogurt

    I rinse milk conatiners but sqaush them and put lid back on to stop smell.

    I know this is a very pedantic way of looking at it but this information is not widely available. I am also not in the buiness of harming the environment and my wallet to subsidize the profits of a plastic manufacturing facility. When recycling started it was free - now it's more expensive to recycle than to bin things for me and for all I know it's going off in a container to flippin China.

    What to do for the best ?

    Maybe someone here who is expert in the field could write a stickey about best recycling practices ;)


  • #9
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Grawns wrote: »
    :confused:Just to clarify - are you stating that using a dishwasher is less environmentally sound than doing regular washing up or that washing recylables in fresh water is a waste of time.

    I mean that you shouldn't use clean fresh water to specially wash recyclables i.e. use the leftover washing up water in your sink/washing-up bowl. The dishwasher option is wasteful, not to mention very hard on your crockery, glasses etc. if you have any decent stuff.

    PS binning yogurt cartons is not environmentally friendly as they are plastic.


  • #10
    Grawns
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Grawns


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    I mean that you shouldn't use clean fresh water to specially wash recyclables i.e. use the leftover washing up water in your sink/washing-up bowl. The dishwasher option is wasteful, not to mention very hard on your crockery, glasses etc. if you have any decent stuff.

    PS binning yogurt cartons is not environmentally friendly as they are plastic.

    But it's said that dishwashers are greener Evidence

    I know yogurt tubs are plastic but they take a lot of water ( and detergent) to clean and I'm not happy recycling stinky sticky things or wasting water to clean them. Personally I try to avoid such containers but binning them seems to be the lesser of two evils


  • #11
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Grawns wrote: »
    But it's said that dishwashers are greener Evidence

    I know yogurt tubs are plastic but they take a lot of water ( and detergent) to clean and I'm not happy recycling stinky sticky things or wasting water to clean them. Personally I try to avoid such containers but binning them seems to be the lesser of two evils

    An article vaguely stating that 'full' dishwashers are environmentally friendly doesn't cut it with me I'm afraid. You can find a counter argument to anything online. If you want to be pedantic I bet the article doesn't take into account the environmental production costs, delivery, packaging, ultimate disposal etc. relating to the dishwasher. :)


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  • #12
    Grawns
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Grawns


    Hmmm...

    I can remember the fights when I was a kid over the dishes so I am biased towards dishwashers plus I run a b&b so were taking lots of dishes.

    I'm more concerned about the yogurt pot!
    Also I already pay for water and its very expensive.


  • #13
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Grawns wrote: »
    Milk containers, Tetra paks, bean cans, yogurt containers etc.

    Is this environmentally friendly or a waste of time? Thinking of water usage and detergent and with water charges coming...

    I pay €5 for my green bin and it's always full to capacity ( and more) but put out very little rubbish. Rubbish is cheaper to dispose of so I'm already making a financial sacrifice.

    Thanks

    ps. They doubled the cost of my green bin because of my lack of spend on rubbish


    The property tax should include bin lifts.

    Fcuking pointless to pay a PT and also then have to fork out bin lift charges too.

    But thats the FG/Labour way for you.:rolleyes::mad:


  • #14
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    paddy147 wrote: »
    The property tax should include bin lifts.

    Fcuking pointless to pay a PT and also then have to fork out bin lift charges too.

    But thats the FG/Labour way for you.:rolleyes::mad:

    Yeah, I can't wait for the next FF government. :rolleyes:


  • #15
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Yeah, I can't wait for the next FF government. :rolleyes:


    FF had their chance and blew it.

    FG/Labour are currently laughing at us all and fcuking us all over.They are gonners allready.


    So maybe let Sinn Fein in for the next one.


  • #16
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Grawns wrote: »
    Milk containers, Tetra paks, bean cans, yogurt containers etc.

    Is this environmentally friendly or a waste of time? Thinking of water usage and detergent and with water charges coming...

    I pay €5 for my green bin and it's always full to capacity ( and more) but put out very little rubbish. Rubbish is cheaper to dispose of so I'm already making a financial sacrifice.

    Thanks

    ps. They doubled the cost of my green bin because of my lack of spend on rubbish


    Start collecting and using filtered rainwater.


    Lots of people are doing this allready,and come water meter time,lots more will do it too.


  • #17
    zagmund
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭zagmund


    Grawns wrote: »
    Lets say it's a yogurt carton, a quick rinse makes no difference to dairy but all the difference to an orange juice carton. I am inclined to bin the yogurt

    Maybe you're doing it wrong. In my books, a quick rinse *does* make all the difference to a yogurt carton. A really quick rinse does for orange juice. Seriously, for yogurt all you have to do (with left over washing water from some other process) is stick the carton in, shake vigorously (or swish it around if you prefer that terminology), remove . . . done. This will take care of the *vast* majority of remaining yogurt. There may be a tiny amount left, but remember that this is waste, it's never going to be sterile or anything approaching it.

    I normally leave the top off milk cartons - that way when I jump up and down on top of them in the bin to squeeze another week before a lift they end up flatter. If the lid was on they wouldn't compress as much. I know I could compress each one separately and put the lid on but then I wouldn't get to squish them all in one go.

    z


  • #18
    Grawns
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Grawns


    zagmund wrote: »
    Maybe you're doing it wrong. In my books, a quick rinse *does* make all the difference to a yogurt carton. A really quick rinse does for orange juice. Seriously, for yogurt all you have to do (with left over washing water from some other process) is stick the carton in, shake vigorously (or swish it around if you prefer that terminology), remove . . . done. This will take care of the *vast* majority of remaining yogurt. There may be a tiny amount left, but remember that this is waste, it's never going to be sterile or anything approaching it.

    I normally leave the top off milk cartons - that way when I jump up and down on top of them in the bin to squeeze another week before a lift they end up flatter. If the lid was on they wouldn't compress as much. I know I could compress each one separately and put the lid on but then I wouldn't get to squish them all in one go.

    z

    There is something very satidfying with squishing! I have been looking into getting a can/ Plastic bottle compactor but they're hard to source for domestic use. Anyone recommend one?

    So the consensus is wash the yogurt pot! Will do.


  • #19
    beazee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭beazee


    Grawns wrote: »
    So the consensus is wash rinse the yogurt pot!
    Fixed it for ya.
    And yes.


  • #20
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    paddy147 wrote: »
    The property tax should include bin lifts.

    Fcuking pointless to pay a PT and also then have to fork out bin lift charges too.

    But thats the FG/Labour way for you.:rolleyes::mad:
    [MOD]Absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand.[/MOD]


  • #21
    trishasaffron
    Registered Users Posts: 922 ✭✭✭trishasaffron


    In an area in France I am familiar with they specifically tell you NOT to clean out the recyclables on the basis that it is not cost effective environmentally.


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  • #22
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    trishasaffron wrote: »
    In an area in France I am familiar with they specifically tell you NOT to clean out the recyclables on the basis that it is not cost effective environmentally.

    Precisely, it's a bit like people making special trips to the recycling centre in the car instead of trying to fit in the visit with some other necessary journey - defeats the purpose. Similar to people trying to live a 'green' lifestyle who buy organic fruit/veg with hundreds of air miles on them.


  • #23
    zagmund
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭zagmund


    Life is a compromise.

    There is no "one true green way".

    On the basis that one is participating in one way or another in society there's no single way of life that can be said to be absolutely better than all other ways. This argument that people are silly or wasting their time *by making an effort* is not constructive. In net consumption terms it can be said to be a waste to drive 1,000 kms to a recycling centre with one empty bottle. Driving 100 kms is less bad, right? And driving 10 kms is less bad again. If someone drives 1 km to drop off their recyclables is this better or worse than simply not recycling at all? If you agree that it's better than not recycling then it's pretty clear that the effort is not a waste. It might be less efficient than combining it with another trip, but it's not inherently *bad*. No more than the other trip or any trip is inherently *bad*. Unless you believe that travelling other than on foot is bad. Once you accept that people travel, then a trip to the recycling centre is no worse than a trip to the beach, or work, or your parents house, or the cinema, or the shops, or anywhere.

    Yes, I've gone all philosophical, but it bugs me when people try to put down efforts that others make to recycle. Sure, it may not be absolutely optimal, but as above unless you are a hermit living in a cave you have to make compromises every single day on the environmental front.

    z


  • #24
    Grawns
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Grawns


    zagmund wrote: »
    Life is a compromise.

    There is no "one true green way".

    On the basis that one is participating in one way or another in society there's no single way of life that can be said to be absolutely better than all other ways. This argument that people are silly or wasting their time *by making an effort* is not constructive. In net consumption terms it can be said to be a waste to drive 1,000 kms to a recycling centre with one empty bottle. Driving 100 kms is less bad, right? And driving 10 kms is less bad again. If someone drives 1 km to drop off their recyclables is this better or worse than simply not recycling at all? If you agree that it's better than not recycling then it's pretty clear that the effort is not a waste. It might be less efficient than combining it with another trip, but it's not inherently *bad*. No more than the other trip or any trip is inherently *bad*. Unless you believe that travelling other than on foot is bad. Once you accept that people travel, then a trip to the recycling centre is no worse than a trip to the beach, or work, or your parents house, or the cinema, or the shops, or anywhere.

    Yes, I've gone all philosophical, but it bugs me when people try to put down efforts that others make to recycle. Sure, it may not be absolutely optimal, but as above unless you are a hermit living in a cave you have to make compromises every single day on the environmental front.

    z

    I agree with you in theory but I don't want be taken for a mug where i'm going to the trouble to recycle, paying a lot for it and perhaps subsidizing a profitable industry who are happy to trick people into doing their work for them. It all comes back to the yogurt pot for me. Wait until you're paying a grand a year for water :eek:

    I just wish there was official indisputable guidelines available for optimal household recycling. I also really really want a domestic baler /crusher but they cost about a grand :mad:


  • #25
    Grawns
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Grawns


    Was discussing this with a friend last night and she thought that as soon as water charges come in it would be the end of washing/rinsing recyclables for many people.


  • #26
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Grawns wrote: »
    Was discussing this with a friend last night and she thought that as soon as water charges come in it would be the end of washing/rinsing recyclables for many people.

    In terms of recycling it will make little difference, except to those coming in close contact with dirty recyclables but how about from your own point of view i.e the storage of quantities of smelly, fly and vermin attracting plastic on your premises? I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. What other steps have you taken in your B+B to prepare for the onset of water charges e.g. reducing water discharge in your toilets, taps that shut off when released etc. :)


  • #27
    Grawns
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Grawns


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    In terms of recycling it will make little difference, except to those coming in close contact with dirty recyclables but how about from your own point of view i.e the storage of quantities of smelly, fly and vermin attracting plastic on your premises? I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. What other steps have you taken in your B+B to prepare for the onset of water charges e.g. reducing water discharge in your toilets, taps that shut off when released etc. :)

    I'm already paying water charges ( hefty water charges) and we've taken every step we can without a major capital investment. I would love those taps though and will look into it. :)

    Putting me and my water use aside. People are going to freak out when the bills start pouring in and there will be a lot less rinsing. ( it's paying for water that got me on this subject)

    In terms of smell and vermin - it will be no different than your black bin!

    In the meantime I'm going to get me one of these yokes :DBin Trasher


  • #28
    Grawns
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Grawns


    paddy147 wrote: »
    Start collecting and using filtered rainwater.


    Lots of people are doing this allready,and come water meter time,lots more will do it too.

    Good idea :)


  • #29
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Grawns wrote: »
    Putting me and my water use aside. People are going to freak out when the bills start pouring in and there will be a lot less rinsing.
    I would imagine rinsing recyclables represents a tiny fraction of the average household's water usage.


  • #30
    beazee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭beazee


    Grawns wrote: »
    In the meantime I'm going to get me one of these yokes :DBin Trasher
    Watch our demonstration video now… This video does not exist


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  • #31
    Grawns
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Grawns


    beazee wrote: »
    Watch our demonstration video now… This video does not exist

    I know and I phoned them today to confirm about about crushing recyclables (in green bin) and forgot to say it to them.:o Told them they were missing a trick as black bins are often weighed and green bins might not be.

    Still am going to buy one and hope it will pay for itself inside a few months. ;)


  • #32
    beazee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭beazee


    Grawns wrote: »
    Still am going to buy one and hope it will pay for itself inside a few months. ;)
    Step ladder, a pair of legs and a few jumps will get you sorted.


  • #33
    Grawns
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Grawns


    beazee wrote: »
    Step ladder, a pair of legs and a few jumps will get you sorted.

    Sorted into hospital :D


  • #34
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Grawns wrote: »
    Hmmm...
    I'm more concerned about the yogurt pot!
    I bin them; too hard to clean out. Also marmalade jars.
    Our recyclables only get taken to the centre about once a month, and then only if passing the place on other business, so they have to be clean and dry to avoid stinky smells.

    Here's how I deal with tetra-paks. After pouring out the last bit, hold it on its side and cut off one of the bottom corners with a sharp knife. Then pour out some more juice/milk through the new hole. Its surprising how much extra there is.
    This also makes rinsing easier; let a small amount of tapwater in at the top, and shake the tetra-pak with thumb covering the new hole, then release the water out the bottom. Repeat 2 or 3 times until water runs clear. Then slash the side open with the knife to allow it to dry out. Throw into your recycling box, squash down the pile later, when they have dried out and more space is needed.


  • #35
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    How on earth are marmalade jars and yogurt pots too hard to clean out? :confused:


  • #36
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    It takes more than a quick cold water rinse.


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  • #37
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    recedite wrote: »
    It takes more than a quick cold water rinse.

    Do them in the washing up bowl when you're finished. If you're using a dishwasher, wash the jars and pots in a bowl of warm soapy water. As for putting marmalade pots and yogurt cartons in the rubbish....Why are you recycling in the first place, is it to save money or the planet? If the former, why are you posting in this forum? If the latter, it only takes a tiny effort to do your bit and I can't understand your problem.


  • #38
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    It's the original point made by the OP. Is it environmentally friendly to run the hot water especially to wash a yogurt pot?
    I don't think so. Its like driving to the recycling centre with one item.
    Bear in mind, a yogurt pot is too light to go in the dishwasher; they get catapulted around inside. Also, to get hot water, most people have to leave the hot tap running for a short time before it gets fully hot.


  • #39
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Why are you recycling in the first place, is it to save money or the planet? If the former, why are you posting in this forum?
    [MOD] Because it's a public forum, open to all, regardless of their motivation. [/MOD]


  • #40
    j@utis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭j@utis


    try to eat every last of bit of yogurt out of the pot. I rarely eat yogurt but I always scrape out as much yogurt as I can. and use a sponge when rinsing them. I see my partners "finished" pots of yogurt with another 2-3 spoonfuls of yogurt left in them. these are hard to clean.
    I try to keep washing of recycling down to minimum - a quick rinse is max I'd do but for some items I skip that altogether.


  • #41
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Was told at the Bray recycling plant that they will no longer be taking plastic milkbottles or tetrapaks because people weren't rinsing them out properly. The smell and the unhygienic conditions over the summer got too bad for the various handlers along the chain.

    This news means that even responsible people like myself will have to go back to throwing recyclables in the bin :mad:

    So if you are one of those people who thinks "ah sure they do all that washing down at the plant, why should I bother"..... mend your ways before you lose your local facility too.
    Important Notice Re Recycling Centres

    Wicklow County Council wishes to advise members of the public that the certain waste materials will no longer be accepted at its Recycling Centres in Arklow, Avoca, Bray, Rampere (Baltinglass) and Wicklow and the Community Centre in Tinahely with effect from Monday 12th August 2013.
    The waste materials affected are:
    Soft plastic / plastic film / plastic bags / Tetrapak
    Wicklow County Council is unable to find recycling outlets for these waste materials anymore and existing stocks at the facilities will have to be sent either to landfi ll or to incinerators for use as a fuel.
    website source


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  • #42
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    recedite wrote: »
    Was told at the Bray recycling plant that they will no longer be taking plastic milkbottles or tetrapaks because people weren't rinsing them out properly. The smell and the unhygienic conditions over the summer got too bad for the various handlers along the chain.

    This news means that even responsible people like myself will have to go back to throwing recyclables in the bin :mad:

    So if you are one of those people who thinks "ah sure they do all that washing down at the plant, why should I bother"..... mend your ways before you lose your local facility too.

    website source

    The reason given for no longer taking Tetrapak - according to what you posted - is different from what you were told at the Bray plant then. :confused:

    It all comes back to the fact that there's too much packaging being generated and not enough uses for the recycled product - much the same as the problem with green glass. The answer - back to glass containers with deposits?


  • #43
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    A guy at the depot said the stuff wasn't clean enough.
    I'm guessing that some private company was purchasing the material on the basis that it was all clean, dry and pre-sorted. Most of it was in fact delivered to the depot in that condition by the consumer.

    There is no doubt that the more it costs a private company to sort and process something for recycling, the less likely it is that the recycling will occur.


  • #44
    envaction
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26 ✭envaction


    I think that just a quick rinse would be okay. I can't imagine that you would waste that much water that way. Or if you're done doing dishes, I would say that you could just use that water because it's still good water. But I'm sure that you don't have to wash them out if you don't want to.


  • #45
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    [mod] Old thread. Closed. [/mod]


This discussion has been closed.
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