Is it time to arm ourselves with weapons?

seamus · 10-01-2013 12:24pm

So is there anyone here who supports the right to shoot an intruder, but doesn't support the death sentence?

Dyr · 10-01-2013 12:26pm

seamus wrote: »

So is there anyone here who supports the right to shoot an intruder, but doesn't support the death sentence?

More importantly, Is there anyone here who doesn't understand the fundamental difference between those positions?

Thomas20 · 10-01-2013 12:27pm

Ush1 wrote: »

You can't govern by emotion, I killed him because he was robbing me but listen, I was stressed and angry at the time.

Funny you say that as it is your belief that human life no matter the actions of the person is above all else, which is completely ridiculous, considering the scum out there.

LiamMc · 10-01-2013 12:29pm

Padraig Nally shot someone dead. He would like the everyone else to catch up with him.
50% of the population going into Round 2.
Last Man Standing.

seamus · 10-01-2013 12:32pm

Bambi wrote: »

More importantly, Is there anyone here who doesn't understand the fundamental difference between those positions?

The difference is superficial. Shooting someone in self-defence is not the same as shooting an intruder.

Ush1 · 10-01-2013 12:33pm

Thomas20 wrote: »

I don't get why everybody wants the state to do everything for them and take no personal responsibility for their actions.
That scumbag had 80 convictions, mental health problems and was acting suspicious weeks prior to this incident. Nally did the correct thing and was left with no option

What should the state being doing for us? Killing burglars?

It's not our responsibility to take the law into our own hands. You seriously think arming people and therefore arming burglars coming into houses will result in less deaths? It's just going to up the stakes lethally.

Thomas20 wrote: »

The Guards can do nothing to stop someone from entering your home, we can't have one at every house, so you need to take personal responsibility and protect yourself/your family and property.

Protecting yourself and your family is one thing, throwing guns into the mix is something different.

The Guards being able to do nothing is the issue that needs to be addressed. What about the standards of home security? The very last port of call would be handing out guns in my opinion.

Ush1 · 10-01-2013 12:35pm

Thomas20 wrote: »

Funny you say that as it is your belief that human life no matter the actions of the person is above all else, which is completely ridiculous, considering the scum out there.

Yeah, call me weird but I value human life?

I'm not a fan of the death sentence and certainly not the general public carrying out the executions.

Thomas20 · 10-01-2013 12:40pm

Ush1 wrote: »

Yeah, call me weird but I value human life?

I'm not a fan of the death sentence and certainly not the general public carrying out the executions.

What is your stance on abortion?

Ush1 wrote: »

What should the state being doing for us? Killing burglars?

It's not our responsibility to take the law into our own hands. You seriously think arming people and therefore arming burglars coming into houses will result in less deaths? It's just going to up the stakes lethally.

Protecting yourself and your family is one thing, throwing guns into the mix is something different.

The Guards being able to do nothing is the issue that needs to be addressed. What about the standards of home security? The very last port of call would be handing out guns in my opinion.

Call me crazy but i would like my safety and safety of my loved ones in my property to be decided by myself if ever an intruder tried to enter.

bodice ripper · 10-01-2013 12:50pm

Cora Mahoney wrote: »

What floors me is how you can, in all honesty, characterize it like that. They terrorized him FOR YEARS. What part of that do you not understand?

I understand that shooting an injured man in the back is worse than burglary, and cannot possibly be described as self defence. If not self defence, one can only assume it was revenge or as a preventative measure against future incidents. Society would collapse if those are legal reasons to kill somebody.

Bruthal · 10-01-2013 12:50pm

laoch na mona wrote: »

how is shooting a man in the back while he crawls away self defense

Id say you might possibly understand better, had you been the true victim in that case, instead of having the over simplistic vision of an injured man being shot as he tried to escape.

Not that I understand any better, but I can visualize the farmers constant living in fear because of that fella, rather than being a person typing on their computer seeing simply a man being shot in the back.

Thankfully imo, overall, the place that mattered most in this case, decided based on the overall factors of the case, that it was self defence, even if it took retrial.

Ush1 · 10-01-2013 12:52pm

Thomas20 wrote: »

What is your stance on abortion?

Irrelevant. I wouldn't kill people for breaking into a house, you evidently would?

Thomas20 wrote: »

Call me crazy but i would like my safety and safety of my loved ones in my property to be decided by myself if ever an intruder tried to enter.

I might call you crazy if you think guns will enhance you and your families safety. Hypothetically, would you rather:

An unarmed burglar breaking in and having no fear of being shot(therefore no need to carry a gun himself) who wants to rob stuff.

An armed burglar with a gun in fear of his life that you have a gun also so who wants to rob stuff but will also shoot someone.

Also ask yourself in which case are people more likely to die?

Cora Mahoney · 10-01-2013 12:54pm

bodice ripper wrote: »

I understand that shooting an injured man in the back is worse than burglary, and cannot possibly be described as self defence. If not self defence, one can only assume it was revenge or as a preventative measure against future incidents. Society would collapse if those are legal reasons to kill somebody.

I actually laughed at this. "Not self defense"? You are out of your mind.

gbee · 10-01-2013 12:56pm

Ush1 wrote: »

Also ask yourself in which case are people more likely to die?

The better shot usually wins.

But don't forget that people in towns and villages and even in big cities like Cork and Dublin used to leave the key in the door, at best under the mat.

It was the actions of crims and thieves that changed ALL our lives.

Bruthal · 10-01-2013 12:59pm

bodice ripper wrote: »

I understand that shooting an injured man in the back is worse than burglary, and cannot possibly be described as self defence.

When was the last time you were repeatedly burgled and harassed by a dangerous criminal? What would you do after he leaves the next time, go in and chill out in front of the tv perhaps?

Wtf is it with people that they cant visualize outside their comfortable non eventful day to day life, and consider the possibility that in the same set of circumstances, they may just possibly have done the same thing themselves?

If not self defence, one can only assume it was revenge or as a preventative measure against future incidents. Society would collapse if those are legal reasons to kill somebody.

So did this society collapse happen because of this case? Or are we safe because there will be a case by case trial for every possible event?

Thomas20 · 10-01-2013 1:00pm

Ush1 wrote: »

Irrelevant. I wouldn't kill people for breaking into a house, you evidently would?

It's isn't irrelevant, you mentioned the death penalty and are against it and are anti gun, you obviously value criminals life so do you value the life of an unborn innocent child?

Ush1 wrote: »

Hypothetically, would you rather:

Hypothetically, i would like peace of mind and the ability to defend myself, if a break in ever happened.

Bruthal · 10-01-2013 1:01pm

seamus wrote: »

So is there anyone here who supports the right to shoot an intruder, but doesn't support the death sentence?

Was the person shot in this case, just an intruder?

Also, being killed due to perpetrating a crime in someone else`s home is a little different than being killed after being arrested for it.

Ush1 · 10-01-2013 1:04pm

gbee wrote: »

The better shot usually wins.

But don't forget that people in towns and villages and even in big cities like Cork and Dublin used to leave the key in the door, at best under the mat.

It was the actions of crims and thieves that changed ALL our lives.

It is a bad thing when we can't leave keys around like that but I don't think guns would make things any safer. The Nally case was fairly unusual and not an everyday occurence.

The better shot winning is Russian roulette and would be in my opinion, more of a danger to my family than anything. He shoots me dead, what does he do with them? What if it's a gang and they're all armed?

Thomas20 · 10-01-2013 1:06pm

Ush1 wrote: »

It is a bad thing when we can't leave keys around like that but I don't think guns would make things any safer. The Nally case was fairly unusual and not an everyday occurence.

The better shot winning is Russian roulette and would be in my opinion, more of a danger to my family than anything. He shoots me dead, what does he do with them? What if it's a gang and they're all armed?

If somebody with 80 convictions wanted to bring a gun with him to rob an old farmer he would have it's just a good thing he didn't.

Ush1 · 10-01-2013 1:08pm

Thomas20 wrote: »

It's isn't irrelevant, you mentioned the death penalty and are against it and are anti gun, you obviously value criminals life so do you value the life of an unborn innocent child?

No it is irrelevant. You say an unborn child but it is clearly not a child at early stages of pregnancy, it's a clump of cells. It's a completely different topic to arming people to defend against intruders.

Value criminals life yes. So what would you do, kill anybody that's a criminal?

Thomas20 wrote: »

Hypothetically, i would like peace of mind and the ability to defend myself, if a break in ever happened.

Take up martial arts then.

LiamMc · 10-01-2013 1:08pm

Thomas20 wrote: »

If somebody with 80 convictions wanted to bring a gun with him to rob an old farmer he would have it's just a good thing he didn't.

Couldda, Wouldda, Shouldda.
Dreadful post.

seamus · 10-01-2013 1:09pm

Bruthal wrote: »

Also, being killed due to perpetrating a crime in someone else`s home is a little different than being killed after being arrested for it.

Yes, it's worse. At least captial punishment has some form of due process.

Check out the "freaky things" thread, and there's at least one story about someone who woke up to find some drunk guy had gotten confused about where he was, broke into a house and fallen asleep.
This is a surprisingly common occurence. You'd be happy enough that these people can be shot dead no questions asked because they're an intruder, right?

Conmaicne Mara · 10-01-2013 1:10pm

seamus wrote: »

Padraig Nally shot a fleeing injured man in the back. What would he know about self defence?

I'd like to see you at his age, mental state thanks to those gurriers, and living alone in the back end of beyond.

It's easy to throw stones.

Boombastic · 10-01-2013 1:12pm

seamus wrote: »

Yes, it's worse. At least captial punishment has some form of due process.

Check out the "freaky things" thread, and there's at least one story about someone who woke up to find some drunk guy had gotten confused about where he was, broke into a house and fallen asleep.
This is a surprisingly common occurence. You'd be happy enough that these people can be shot dead no questions asked because they're an intruder, right?

It might have a knock-on effect of encouraging responsible drinking. You could warn them by shouting, if the keep coming, well then they're fair game

leonidas83 · 10-01-2013 1:15pm

laoch na mona wrote: »

there is nothing wrong with self defense but murder is murder you don't get to decide if someone else lives or dies not saying you can't touch them but if you kill them face the consequences a court would hear that they were trying to rob you and it wouldn't be the same as stabbing a lad outside a pub

your post "dont go killing people lads, tis a bit harsh" shows a complete lack of understanding of what were talking about here. Were talking about people being so in fear of their lives/home that they are considering arming themselves because the government & judicial system have failed them in this country. I dont have a problem with older people living in rural areas arming themselves so they have some sort of chance against these type of scumbags.

Its not pc but I dont give a s*it. Id like to see what your opinion on it would be if a scumbag with 80 or so convictions for violent assualt/arms breaks into your family home, you wouldnt be long in forgetting about your ideals & concern for these type of individuals then

Thomas20 · 10-01-2013 1:16pm

Ush1 wrote: »

No it is irrelevant. You say an unborn child but it is clearly not a child at early stages of pregnancy, it's a clump of cells. It's a completely different topic to arming people to defend against intruders.

Value criminals life yes. So what would you do, kill anybody that's a criminal?

Take up martial arts then.

Against death penalty and values criminal life and pro abortion, says he is pro human life, what a lovely contradiction.

LiamMc wrote: »

Couldda, Wouldda, Shouldda.
Dreadful post.

hmmm guess that scumbag Shouldda never went on to his farm.

Berns · 10-01-2013 1:18pm

Got robbed before while at work and GF not in. Fitted an alarm after this.

Had someone try to kick a window in while I was out in the garage. Dog heard it and I was straight behind her investigating. Went into the room, window was ok but 2 guys outside, hadda find keys so they ran off and gave some chase down the street but they got away. Reported to police, couldnt find them. Alarm installed and visable but didnt deter em.

Door was left unlocked after a food order one night & had someone come in when GF was watchin TV and I was sleepin (nackared after work). Dogs were barking like mad, which woke me up & sprinted down stairs to see the door being closed. Checked gf ok quickly, when went to confront em to see wtf they doin coming into our house and I got assaulted. GF pulled me in and closed the door. Had glass bottles sitting at the inside of the door but didnt think of using them at the time, just that GF was in there prob scared ****less cause of them comin in , and what could have happened. Also not caught and reports of similar fellows robbin a car that night.

So yeah, I'd love to have the means to at least incapacitate an intruder from range to see if they have actually took anything. Or till police come. It's not like they gonna let you search em, and long gone before police arrive. Problem is havin something legal, small that you can carry that other person can't get a hold off.

Ush1 · 10-01-2013 1:22pm

Thomas20 wrote: »

Against death penalty and values criminal life and pro abortion, says he is pro human life, what a lovely contradiction.

You didn't even address what I said. You're dragging it off topic to make some trite and obtuse point about me personally?

hyperborean · 10-01-2013 1:26pm

Why not, if I own a property and someone decides to come onto the property for the purpose of theft or malice then yes.....its ok to shoot them dead.

Guaranteed reduction on criminal behaviour on private property, and people can live without fear on their wn property....the joys

Thomas20 · 10-01-2013 1:26pm

Ush1 wrote: »

You didn't even address what I said. You're dragging it off topic to make some trite and obtuse point about me personally?

If someone entered my house and i felt threatened i would use anything against that person including a gun.
Iif they did it once they could just as well do it again especially if you are an easy target.

Bruthal · 10-01-2013 1:28pm

seamus wrote: »

Yes, it's worse. At least captial punishment has some form of due process.

The case this thread is about, has had its due process

Check out the "freaky things" thread, and there's at least one story about someone who woke up to find some drunk guy had gotten confused about where he was, broke into a house and fallen asleep.

Was he shot and killed?

This is a surprisingly common occurence. You'd be happy enough that these people can be shot dead no questions asked because they're an intruder, right?

I am posting about this case.

Is it time to arm ourselves with weapons?

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