Goberment forcing people into hunger!!

frag420 · 12-09-2013 5:49pm #1

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/tobacco-tax-forcing-low-income-people-to-go-without-food-1.1525108

Repeated tax increases on cigarettes and tobacco are forcing people to go without food in order to have money to satisfy their addiction rather than deterring smoking, the Joint Oireachtas Finance Committee has heard.
During a discussion of pre-budget submissions with a range of health interest groups, Labour TD Kevin Humphreys said the rise in the price of cigarettes in shops was forcing people to either buy smuggled or counterfeit products or go without essential items.

Give em chewing tobacco, problem solved!!

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 12-09-2013 5:53pm

Jesus wept!

It wasn't me! · 12-09-2013 5:54pm

Surely it's "Government forcing people to make choices - people fail"?

hullaballoo · 12-09-2013 5:54pm

Smoking really is win-win for Government: lots of revenue from smoking throughout their working life and they don't last long on retirement! No pension and relatively little burden on the HSE through protracted illness.

Smoking represses my appetite, so I'll be ok anyway.

smash · 12-09-2013 5:57pm

Increasing the price does deter smoking ffs!

Karl Stein · 12-09-2013 5:59pm

'Merica

I am pie · 12-09-2013 6:00pm

Let them eat B&H.

FearDark · 12-09-2013 6:00pm

frag420 wrote: »

...Labour TD Kevin Humphreys said the rise in the price of cigarettes in shops was forcing people to either buy smuggled or counterfeit products or go without essential items.

Well if you are a person who makes the decision to have cigarettes over food or other essential items then you deserve everything you get imo.

If you can afford cigarettes, power to ya, go ahead and smoke til your lungs turn black. If you can't afford to smoke...maybe you shouldn't smoke.

EDIT: Willing to bet Labour TD Kevin Humphreys is a smoker himself.

Frank Black · 12-09-2013 6:13pm

frag420 wrote: »

Durin Labour TD Kevin Humphreys said the rise in the price of cigarettes in shops was forcing people to either buy smuggled or counterfeit products or go without essential items.

The standard of some of the people we elect to our national parliament is truly depressing sometimes. It's an idiocy that spans the political divide.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 12-09-2013 6:19pm

frag420 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/tobacco-tax-forcing-low-income-people-to-go-without-food-1.1525108

Repeated tax increases on cigarettes and tobacco are forcing people to go without food in order to have money to satisfy their addiction rather than deterring smoking, the Joint Oireachtas Finance Committee has heard.
During a discussion of pre-budget submissions with a range of health interest groups, Labour TD Kevin Humphreys said the rise in the price of cigarettes in shops was forcing people to either buy smuggled or counterfeit products or go without essential items.

Give em chewing tobacco, problem solved!!

Someone obviously does not know the meaning of the word "forced!

DamagedTrax · 12-09-2013 6:24pm

smash wrote: »

Increasing the price does deter smoking ffs!

hasnt deterred me or anyone i know. we just complain about it a lot for a few weeks and then get on with enjoying that sweet tasty nicotine.

TommiesTank · 12-09-2013 6:27pm

Would they try to eat the arse off a low flying duck?

If not, they aren't hungry.

Gatling · 12-09-2013 6:29pm

Whats next fat people saying there been forced to diet because the cost of junk food has gone up

FloatingVoter · 12-09-2013 6:33pm

Grand..us smokers will pack it in tomorrow and all buy chewing gum.... then what?
Good luck to any health service for all you healthy folk. We smokers die early and fund your geriatric care. Actually the taxes we pay fund a hell of a lot more than that (Education, Social Welfare, Roads, Mortgage Rescues for the bubblebrained) but we'll axe old folks first.

hullaballoo · 12-09-2013 6:33pm

DamagedTrax wrote: »

hasnt deterred me or anyone i know. we just complain about it a lot for a few weeks and then get on with enjoying that sweet tasty nicotine.

It would deter most sane people from starting and it is a big incentive to quit when you realise that a 20-a-day smoker is spending about €3,500 p/a, which is only going to increase.

darkpagandeath · 12-09-2013 6:33pm

Gatling wrote: »

Whats next fat people saying there been forced to diet because the cost of junk food has gone up

Smokers are easy targets as well it's bad for you (yes i smoke) you cant complain about fat people as apparently it's not a lifestyle choice. Reminds me of the large women with 3 large kids in McDonalds feeding her large 1 year old ish baby in a high chair fries. But that's ok

Turtyturd · 12-09-2013 6:37pm

Tomacco is the answer.

shruikan2553 · 12-09-2013 6:44pm

So by having drugs illegal we are forcing junkies to commit illegal acts which may be harmful to them. Therefor all drugs should be legal. Am I doing this right?

DamagedTrax · 12-09-2013 6:48pm

hullaballoo wrote: »

It would deter most sane people from starting

Not when you can buy a pack of 200 on the street for next to nothing.

I wouldnt have thought sane people would need a price hike not to start. Anyone that smokes is nuts, myself included!

Gatling · 12-09-2013 6:51pm

DamagedTrax wrote: »

Not when you can buy a pack of 200 on the street for next to nothing.

I wouldnt have thought sane people would need a price hike not to start. Anyone that smokes is nut, myself included!

Add the thought of you've no idea what could be in the cheap pack of 200's

hmmm · 12-09-2013 6:51pm

I'm certainly happy to pay more taxes so that this terrible austeriddee can be reversed.

darkpagandeath · 12-09-2013 6:51pm

shruikan2553 wrote: »

So by having drugs illegal we are forcing junkies to commit illegal acts which may be harmful to them. Therefor all drugs should be legal. Am I doing this right?

No one mentioned Illegal drugs

diomed · 12-09-2013 6:54pm

I had to read the opening post a few times to see if I could understand. Labour TD Kevin Humphreys doesn't make sense. How did he get elected?

shruikan2553 · 12-09-2013 6:57pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

No one mentioned Illegal drugs

No but Im using the same logic as they are.

My name is URL · 12-09-2013 6:59pm

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Grand..us smokers will pack it in tomorrow and all buy chewing gum.... then what?
Good luck to any health service for all you healthy folk. We smokers die early and fund your geriatric care. Actually the taxes we pay fund a hell of a lot more than that (Education, Social Welfare, Roads, Mortgage Rescues for the bubblebrained) but we'll axe old folks first.

Are there any stats that actually show that the revenue raised on cigarettes covers the costs related to smoking?

iirc, 2 billion is raised per year. Something like the High Tech Drug Scheme alone costs the state close to 500 million.

Generic Dreadhead · 12-09-2013 6:59pm

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Surely it's "Government forcing people to make choices - people fail"?

You sir, have won todays internet :pac:

ScumLord · 12-09-2013 7:02pm

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Surely it's "Government forcing people to make choices - people fail"?

How is it a choice? It's a case of "do as I say or I'll make you!"

People want to stop other people from making the choice to smoke or not by making it more and more difficult to make the choice that they want. It's the exact opposite of giving people a choice.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 12-09-2013 7:02pm

frag420 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/tobacco-tax-forcing-low-income-people-to-go-without-food-1.1525108

Repeated tax increases on cigarettes and tobacco are forcing people to go without food in order to have money to satisfy their addiction rather than deterring smoking, the Joint Oireachtas Finance Committee has heard.
During a discussion of pre-budget submissions with a range of health interest groups, Labour TD Kevin Humphreys said the rise in the price of cigarettes in shops was forcing people to either buy smuggled or counterfeit products or go without essential items.

Give em chewing tobacco, problem solved!!

Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything.

Does Kevin Humphreys believe this drivel? How the pigshít can anybody use this as an argument?

If people are that stupid to go hungry or have a fag then let them go hungry. Feckin' eejits.

How many gobshítes are not eating because of their smoking habits. The fact that this argument was put forward annoys me.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 12-09-2013 7:04pm

ScumLord wrote: »

How is it a choice? It's a case of "do as I say or I'll make you!"

People want to stop other people from making the choice to smoke or not by making it more and more difficult to make the choice that they want. It's the exact opposite of giving people a choice.

It takes very little brain power to see that smoking is bad. Same fcukers can't afford healthcare and end up getting that paid for anyway... They can't have it all.

EoghanConway · 12-09-2013 7:04pm

shruikan2553 wrote: »

No but Im using the same logic as they are.

(deterrent) forces (poor decision)

I propose we name it Humphreys' Law.

Roger_007 · 12-09-2013 7:06pm

If dey don't reduce the price of de fags soon, there'll be people dyin of de hunger on de side of de road, just like in de famine times. Hav mercy on dem, Mr Noonan.

Roger_007 · 12-09-2013 7:07pm

diomed wrote: »

I had to read the opening post a few times to see if I could understand. Labour TD Kevin Humphreys doesn't make sense. How did he get elected?

The voters have a similar IQ to his.:(

Lapin · 12-09-2013 7:08pm

"Goberment forcing people into hunger!!"

FFS the spelling on Afters Hours just gets worser and worser. :mad:

Its Gubberment OP.

Get it together man.

Frosty McSnowballs · 12-09-2013 7:11pm

Well this thread is retarded.

If people want to choose cigarettes over food then that's fine.

It might knock the population down a bit.

banquo · 12-09-2013 7:13pm

People know that addiction isn't about smart vs stupid, right?

It wasn't me! · 12-09-2013 7:17pm

ScumLord wrote: »

How is it a choice? It's a case of "do as I say or I'll make you!"

People want to stop other people from making the choice to smoke or not by making it more and more difficult to make the choice that they want. It's the exact opposite of giving people a choice.

All choices have costs. In this case, people had a choice, heavily incentivised, to give up smoking or not be able to afford food. It's like having the answers circled on the test paper and still getting it wrong, proving some people shouldn't be allowed leave the house without a helmet and a babysitter.

FloatingVoter · 12-09-2013 7:19pm

My name is URL wrote: »

Are there any stats that actually show that the revenue raised on cigarettes covers the costs related to smoking?

iirc, 2 billion is raised per year. Something like the High Tech Drug Scheme alone costs the state close to 500 million.

Thanks, we'll use your figures...the HTDS is gone. Now for the other 75% ...now that we're no longer smoking - what do you suggest goes next.

I am pie · 12-09-2013 7:27pm

banquo wrote: »

People know that addiction isn't about smart vs stupid, right?

Just stop smoking, it isn't heroin despite the nonsense that people come out with, you won't be violently ill and suffer all manner of aches pains and severe physical symptons. There won't be hallucinations etc.

Stop sticking them in yer gob and lighting them. You'll be narky for a few weeks but it will pass. FFS. No time for that nonsense, I quit myself a few years ago. When people ask how, I tell them I wanted to so I stopped smoking cigarettes. Simple as that.

It very much is about smart vs stupid when it comes down someone on lets say 30k a year spending 10%+ of their income (a lot more actually when you factor in their tax out of the 30k) on slowly killing themselves.

Poor smokers. Boo hoo.

Dave! · 12-09-2013 7:32pm

Let them eat cake. Everyone likes cake!

Roger_007 · 12-09-2013 7:37pm

My name is URL wrote: »

Are there any stats that actually show that the revenue raised on cigarettes covers the costs related to smoking?

iirc, 2 billion is raised per year. Something like the High Tech Drug Scheme alone costs the state close to 500 million.

It would be impossible to estimate how much any particular environmental factor costs the state. Sometimes people pluck figures out of the air but that is all it is; a wild guess. There are so many factors involved in illness/health/life expectancy that it is absurd trying to isolate any particular one and put a cost on it.
It is a strange-but-true fact that countries with the lowest smoking rates in the world also have the lowest life expectancy, e.g. Sub-Saharan Africa and India. The smoking rates have declined in Ireland from about 40% 25 years ago to 22% today. Yet the cost of the health service has trebled in that time.
What does all this prove? Absolutely nothing.

Gran Hermano · 12-09-2013 7:45pm

hullaballoo wrote: »

It would deter most sane people from starting and it is a big incentive to quit when you realise that a 20-a-day smoker is spending about €3,500 p/a, which is only going to increase.

Or you could spend 500 of that on a couple of trips a year to other EU states, legally stock up on cheaper cigarettes and save 50 per cent compared to the Irish price.

dark crystal · 12-09-2013 7:51pm

I am pie wrote: »

Just stop smoking, it isn't heroin despite the nonsense that people come out with, you won't be violently ill and suffer all manner of aches pains and severe physical symptons. There won't be hallucinations etc.

Stop sticking them in yer gob and lighting them. You'll be narky for a few weeks but it will pass. FFS. No time for that nonsense, I quit myself a few years ago. When people ask how, I tell them I wanted to so I stopped smoking cigarettes. Simple as that.

It very much is about smart vs stupid when it comes down someone on lets say 30k a year spending 10%+ of their income (a lot more actually when you factor in their tax out of the 30k) on slowly killing themselves.

Poor smokers. Boo hoo.

Nothing worse than a preachy, smug ex-smoker. If giving up was that easy, everyone would do it.

As an ex smoker myself, I can kind of understand where Humphrey's coming from. For many people on low incomes, cigarettes are one of the only pleasures they get in life. It may not make sense to a non-smoker, but smoking is a stress reliever, a comfort of sorts. I know of people who have gone without dinner in order to buy a packet of cigarettes. It may seem stupid and selfish to others, but to the smoker, it's a crutch they feel they just couldn't do without.

DamagedTrax · 12-09-2013 7:54pm

I am pie wrote: »

Just stop smoking, it isn't heroin despite the nonsense that people come out with, you won't be violently ill and suffer all manner of aches pains and severe physical symptons. There won't be hallucinations etc.

Stop sticking them in yer gob and lighting them. You'll be narky for a few weeks but it will pass. FFS. No time for that nonsense, I quit myself a few years ago. When people ask how, I tell them I wanted to so I stopped smoking cigarettes. Simple as that.

It very much is about smart vs stupid when it comes down someone on lets say 30k a year spending 10%+ of their income (a lot more actually when you factor in their tax out of the 30k) on slowly killing themselves.

Poor smokers. Boo hoo.

No.

ScumLord · 12-09-2013 7:59pm

It wasn't me! wrote: »

All choices have costs. In this case, people had a choice, heavily incentivised,

The same way the mob give people the "option" of paying protection money.

Days 298 · 12-09-2013 8:12pm

banquo wrote: »

People know that addiction isn't about smart vs stupid, right?

Maybe but nothing beats being up on the high horse when it comes to smokers for some.

I am pie wrote: »

Just stop smoking, it isn't heroin despite the nonsense that people come out with, you won't be violently ill and suffer all manner of aches pains and severe physical symptons. There won't be hallucinations etc.

Stop sticking them in yer gob and lighting them. You'll be narky for a few weeks but it will pass. FFS. No time for that nonsense, I quit myself a few years ago. When people ask how, I tell them I wanted to so I stopped smoking cigarettes. Simple as that.

It very much is about smart vs stupid when it comes down someone on lets say 30k a year spending 10%+ of their income (a lot more actually when you factor in their tax out of the 30k) on slowly killing themselves.

Poor smokers. Boo hoo.

Nothing beats the judgemental attitude and preachiness of an ex smoker. And I've never smoked!

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Or you could spend 500 of that on a couple of trips a year to other EU states, legally stock up on cheaper cigarettes and save 50 per cent compared to the Irish price.

And contribute zero to the exchequer :rolleyes: Government shooting themselves in the foot but hey the high prices allow the health zealots get on the high horse and rant like above a bit more when people say "Maybe they cost a bit too much?" I know many who haven't bought cigarettes with Irish duty in years opting for friends to bring home some for them and buy them themselves while abroad.

I am pie · 12-09-2013 8:13pm

Boo hoo.

Just.stop.smoking.

opiniated · 12-09-2013 8:16pm

Lapin wrote: »

"Goberment forcing people into hunger!!"

FFS the spelling on Afters Hours just gets worser and worser. :mad:

Its Gubberment OP.

Get it together man.

Nah! It's definitely Gob- erment.:P:D
All they ever do is mouth off!:D:D

R P McMurphy · 12-09-2013 8:16pm

dark crystal wrote: »

Nothing worse than a preachy, smug ex-smoker. If giving up was that easy, everyone would do it.

As an ex smoker myself, I can kind of understand where Humphrey's coming from. For many people on low incomes, cigarettes are one of the only pleasures they get in life. It may not make sense to a non-smoker, but smoking is a stress reliever, a comfort of sorts. I know of people who have gone without dinner in order to buy a packet of cigarettes. It may seem stupid and selfish to others, but to the smoker, it's a crutch they feel they just couldn't do without.

Theres none so pure as a reformed hoor

Days 298 · 12-09-2013 8:18pm

I am pie wrote: »

Boo hoo.

Just.stop.smoking.

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Theres none so pure as a reformed hoor

KwackerJack · 12-09-2013 8:21pm

Shocking i know, at this rate ill have to buy a smaller car, buy my clothes in Tesco instead of Penney's and give up buttered popcorn all to keep up my coke habit!

If you choose fags over food well best of luck. Obviously the smoke has killed some brain cells!

Shout Dust · 12-09-2013 9:22pm

Darwinism at its best

Goberment forcing people into hunger!!

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