No Irony Please, We're Vatican

robindch · 27-04-2012 11:48am #1

Vaguely watching things unfold in the Vatican and the wider RCC since Ratzinger took over, I can't help but feel that irony has taken a holiday, if not left for good.

Here's the latest from Rome. A couple of months ago, the Vatican announced an inquiry into media leaks which alleged financial corruption within the Vatican. Note here that it didn't inquire into whether the allegations were true, but simply who did the leaking. Well, the latest commission of inquiry has been announced and it's made up of (cue the Monty Python scene) a "crack squad of cardinals", led (cue The Da Vinci Code) by a senior member of Opus Dei. The full story is here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/26/pope-opus-dei-vatican-leaks

Now, the Vatican can obviously do whatever it likes within its own walls, people and administration, but its near-total obsession with internal political optics, internal control and authority at the expense of any semblance of public honesty -- preaching love, but practicing little or none of it -- seems to be fooling fewer and fewer people amongst the general believership. To a greater or lesser degree, that's also seen in other recent Vatican-originated nonsense about Fr's Darcy + Flannery, the US nuns, the continuing abuse scandals and the completely inadequate corporate responses to them, agitprop like the output of EWTN, the Catholic League, our very own John Waters, as well as all the other endless stories noted in this forum over the last few years.

Anyhow, is it just me, or are the Vatican, and its remaining vocal supporters, really drifting further and further to the extreme right, with all its inherent risk of some kind of dramatic revolution, schism or simple implosion?

Sarky · 27-04-2012 12:39pm

Look at those shades. You just know he's hiding a pair of 9-mil's and a consecrated shotgun under that trenchcoat. Troubleshooter indeed.

Corkfeen · 27-04-2012 12:54pm

Sarky wrote: »

Look at those shades. You just know he's hiding a pair of 9-mil's and a consecrated shotgun under that trenchcoat. Troubleshooter indeed.

He's clearly the Jack Bauer of cardinals. I have an image of a Vatican ice cream seller being interrogated by him. :DD

Galvasean · 27-04-2012 12:57pm

robindch wrote: »

Anyhow, is it just me, or are the Vatican, and its remaining vocal supporters, really drifting further and further to the extreme right, with all its inherent risk of some kind of dramatic revolution, schism or simple implosion?

I honestly do think that we are getting close to a schism here in Ireland. When you have the Vatican essentially silencing what the majority of people who call themselves Catholic consider 'good priests' it highlights the divide between Roman hierarchy and Irish laity. Most people will say they like/support their local priest, but will probably not say the same about the Pope/Vatican.
I for one hope they do disassociate themselves from Rome and create a new form of Christianity/Catholicism based on love, goodness and a will to seek out betterness for all people, rather than following the increasingly outdated and (dare I say) barbaric morality imposed by a man sitting on a golden throne.
Such a move could only benefit Ireland as a whole.

HUNK · 27-04-2012 6:11pm

Galvasean wrote: »

I for one hope they do disassociate themselves from Rome and create a new form of Christianity/Catholicism based on love, goodness and a will to seek out betterness for all people, rather than following the increasingly outdated and (dare I say) barbaric morality imposed by a man sitting on a golden throne.

My Dad considers himself Catholic (even though he doesn't seem to believe in God, attend mass, etc) and this is the approach he'd like to see happen. Makes me wonder how many more feel this way. If the RCC continues acting the way it has as of late, it might very well happen, and a new type of Irish Catholicism will become a reality.

Hotblack Desiato · 27-04-2012 11:32pm

HUNK wrote: »

My Dad considers himself Catholic (even though he doesn't seem to believe in God, attend mass, etc)

I'd love to know how many of the "84%" feel that way, too.

If the RCC continues acting the way it has as of late, it might very well happen, and a new type of Irish Catholicism will become a reality.

Hmm, an Irish reformed church... that would place them uncomfortably close in doctrine to the other Irish reformed church, you know, the left-footers - couldn't have that, now, could we? :rolleyes:

Hotblack Desiato · 27-04-2012 11:40pm

Galvasean wrote: »

I for one hope they do disassociate themselves from Rome and create a new form of Christianity/Catholicism based on love, goodness and a will to seek out betterness for all people, rather than following the increasingly outdated and (dare I say) barbaric morality imposed by a man sitting on a golden throne.
Such a move could only benefit Ireland as a whole.

I thanked your post

but a Christianity based on goodness is not possible.
Same goes for any religion where believers are saved and unbelievers are damned.
That's pretty much all of them...

Edit: it was curious being a kid in catholic school in late 70s/early 80s.
The approach alternated between hellfire and damnation, and huggy fluffy god loves everyone, depending on who was delivering.
Each invalidated the other.
Must have been easier to buy in in the old days when hellfire and damnation was all that was on offer!
(maybe that's why Ratzo blames Vatican II for everthing that's gone wrong?)

robindch · 28-04-2012 12:03am

Sarky wrote: »

And what the hell is Agent Smith doing there?

Sarky · 28-04-2012 12:43am

He's clearly telling the Swiss Guards that they didn't see nuthin', if they know what's good for them.

ArtSmart · 28-04-2012 12:47am

Sarky wrote: »

Look at those shades. You just know he's hiding a pair of 9-mil's and a consecrated shotgun under that trenchcoat. Troubleshooter indeed.

This has to go into the
you laugh you lose' pic comp.

classic

ShooterSF · 28-04-2012 3:21am

I won't quote the pic again but how awesome is it that those Guards carry swords?! Can you imagine the three musketeer style arrests?

Run_to_da_hills · 28-04-2012 5:59am

Galvasean wrote: »

I honestly do think that we are getting close to a schism here in Ireland. When you have the Vatican essentially silencing what the majority of people who call themselves Catholic consider 'good priests' it highlights the divide between Roman hierarchy and Irish laity. Most people will say they like/support their local priest, but will probably not say the same about the Pope/Vatican.
I for one hope they do disassociate themselves from Rome and create a new form of Christianity/Catholicism based on love, goodness and a will to seek out betterness for all people, rather than following the increasingly outdated and (dare I say) barbaric morality imposed by a man sitting on a golden throne.
Such a move could only benefit Ireland as a whole.

Edit: I honestly do think that we are getting close to a schism here in Ireland. When you have the Vatican essentially silencing what the majority of people who call themselves Catholic consider 'good priests' it highlights the divide between Roman hierarchy and Irish laity. Most people will say they like/support their local priest, but will probably not say the same about the Pope/Vatican.
I for one hope they do disassociate themselves from Rome and create a new form of Christianity/Catholicism based on love, goodness and a will to seek out betterness for all people, rather than following the increasingly outdated and (dare I say) barbaric morality imposed by a man sitting on a golden throne. Such a move could only benefit Ireland as a whole.

King Mob · 28-04-2012 6:51am

Sarky wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yQNOYcQ18I

robindch · 30-04-2012 12:16pm

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0430/1224315363698.html

Irish Times wrote:

A SILENT vigil was held outside the papal nunciature in Dublin yesterday to protest against the censuring of priests by the Vatican. Well-known priest and journalist Fr Brian D’Arcy last week said he had been censured by the Vatican over four articles he wrote for the Sunday World newspaper in 2010. Fr D’Arcy is the fifth Irish Catholic priest known to have been censured by the Vatican recently. The others are Redemptorist priests Fr Tony Flannery and Fr Gerard Moloney, Marist priest Fr Seán Fagan and Capuchin priest Fr Owen O’Sullivan.

[...]

Fr D’Arcy told a story – also recalled in his weekend radio interview – of being ordered to fell 20 cherry trees by the rector at the Graan centre in Enniskillen. “Today I think it’s probably the most serious sin I have committed in my life . . . But as I think of it now I recognise that God was teaching me about the limits to human obedience,” he wrote.

robindch · 01-05-2012 11:16am

Fintan empties both barrels into the Vatican:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0501/1224315407633.html

Fintan wrote:

[...] When priests were raping children, the institutional hierarchy was wringing its hands and pleading “what can we do?” The Vatican was very busy and very far away. But when a priest makes some mild suggestions that women might be entitled to equality, the church is suddenly an efficient police state that can whip that priest into line. The Vatican, which apparently couldn’t read any of the published material pointing to horrific abuse in church-run institutions, can pore over the Sunday World with a magnifying glass, looking for the minutest speck of heresy. An institution so stupid that it thinks its Irish faithful is more scandalised by Brian D’Arcy than by Brendan Smyth is not worth anyone’s anger. It is doing a far better job of destroying itself than its worst enemies could dream of. All we can do is mourn the passing of a strain of decency and hope in a society so inured to hypocrisy that one more example is neither here nor there.

aidan24326 · 01-05-2012 4:58pm

robindch wrote: »

Anyhow, is it just me, or are the Vatican, and its remaining vocal supporters, really drifting further and further to the extreme right, with all its inherent risk of some kind of dramatic revolution, schism or simple implosion?

A schism must be a possibility, since a large number of those who would consider themelves catholic simply don't agree with vatican policy anymore. Surveys consistently show that a majority want priests to be allowed marry and a majority also agree with women being priests, yet the church hierarchy ignore the wishes of their flock.

These days hardly a week goes by without some bishop or cardinal coming out with some completely out of touch comments or planting his foot in his mouth, yet they carry on regardless. They say the definition of madness is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a diffeent result, yet that's what these idiots are doing. They're so out of touch it's almost comical and they just don't get it at all.

No Irony Please, We're Vatican

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