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Moral Compass

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  • 11-02-2013 11:19am
    #1
    Geomy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭


    Some people join a church so that they can steer away from their hedonistic lifestyle and abstain from the type of behavior and actions that causes them anxiety and stress etc
    Some love it more hate it..

    Is there alternative way,which isn't financially costly...


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    #2
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Geomy wrote: »
    Some people join a church so that they can steer away from their hedonistic lifestyle and abstain from the type of behavior and actions that causes them anxiety and stress etc
    Some love it more hate it..

    Is there alternative way,which isn't financially costly...
    Just don't be an asshole. Its free of charge and 100% effective.


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    #3
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    This OP confuses me on many levels.

    Any chance you'd elaborate?


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    #4
    Geomy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭Geomy


    Dades wrote: »
    This OP confuses me on many levels.

    Any chance you'd elaborate?

    Ok, is there a way of meeting groups of people who are not religious or spiritual.
    People who want to get well,but can't afford expensive therapy or councillors.

    Is there any kind of rational recovery groups in Ireland ?


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    #5
    Geomy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭Geomy


    lazygal wrote: »
    Just don't be an asshole. Its free of charge and 100% effective.

    If only it was that easy :S


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    #6
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Geomy wrote: »
    Ok, is there a way of meeting groups of people who are not religious or spiritual.
    People who want to get well,but can't afford expensive therapy or councillors.

    Is there any kind of rational recovery groups in Ireland ?

    Well yeah there is, there are plenty of groups out there that are free that are all about working through issues etc that don't have any religious ethos. Depends on what problem you're trying to fix though.


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    #7
    lynski
    Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭lynski


    actually geomy has a point, I am not sure what groups specifically you are talking about - but aa na alanon alateen all have 'god' in them as well as other groups associated with addiction.
    Many other groups follow the 12 steps too and many suggest a submission to a 'higher power'
    however your lack of faith should never be a barrier to seeking help, these groups will all welcome you too and help you accommodate your needs and beliefs.
    Just stay away from the victory church and its ilk and the scientologists oh and the CLDS or momons, non of them can fix ya.


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    #8
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Geomy wrote: »
    Is there any kind of rational recovery groups in Ireland ?
    Dublin Skeptics in the Pub:

    http://www.facebook.com/groups/204710146647/


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    #9
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,961 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    Geomy wrote: »
    If only it was that easy :S

    For the most part, it is that easy. Don't do anything, to other people, that would suck if it was done to you.

    If anything's hard about that, it's that gnarly requirement to think before one acts. :o

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



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    #10
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,103 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    lynski wrote: »
    actually geomy has a point, I am not sure what groups specifically you are talking about - but aa na alanon alateen all have 'god' in them as well as other groups associated with addiction.
    Many other groups follow the 12 steps too and many suggest a submission to a 'higher power'
    however your lack of faith should never be a barrier to seeking help, these groups will all welcome you too and help you accommodate your needs and beliefs.
    This.

    Nearly all collective/communal recovery/support programs work (at least in part) by inviting you to confront your own weakness and to look outside yourself (to a "higher power") for support. The second step is almost a corollary of the first - part of confronting your weakness is acknowledging that you have a problem that you can't fix by yourself, and therefore you're going to have to look elsewhere for the resources you need.

    How you conceive of the "higher power" is up to you. It certainly doesn't have to be conceived of as "god", though it very commonly is. But you can certainly take a humanist approach to this and think of the higher power as something that you get from other people, from sharing your struggle with them.

    The trick will be to find a support group which doesn't default to "god"-type language for dealing with the "higher power". But such groups certainly do exist, and if you find a support group that isn't working for you for this reason the organisers of the group should be sympathetic, and should be in a position to suggest avenues you can follow to find a more congenial group.


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    #11
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,242 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Geomy wrote: »
    Some people join a church so that they can steer away from their hedonistic lifestyle and abstain from the type of behavior and actions that causes them anxiety and stress etc
    Some love it more hate it..

    Is there alternative way,which isn't financially costly...

    You could approach some of the universities or some of the private courses that teach Cognitive behavioural therapy. The students there need to build up a certain number of therapy hours before they can complete their course so they should be willing to offer you free sessions or at a heavy discount.

    One point to note, be wary of the kind of therapy that certain courses teach. There are a lot of psychotherapists that are still using freudian psychoanalysis and other pseudo-scientific practices

    Try to find somewhere that uses Rational Emotive Behaviour Therapy or something similar


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    #12
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    lynski wrote: »
    however your lack of faith should never be a barrier to seeking help, these groups will all welcome you too and help you accommodate your needs and beliefs.

    I'd steer away from the AA, as it has a horribly high recidivism rate (in the US it is about 95% within one year, based admittedly off very sparse evidence. Blame the AA here, they don't release their data for proper analysis). If you think about it logically you will see why.

    I would tell you but South Park does a far better job.


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    #13
    Geomy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭Geomy


    bnt wrote: »

    For the most part, it is that easy. Don't do anything, to other people, that would suck if it was done to you.

    If anything's hard about that, it's that gnarly requirement to think before one acts. :o

    That's ok,for me I can live that way and have a laid back empathic nature.

    It's someone I know who would like to get well,they are very codependent on many levels,they tried the 12 step approach etc

    Works for their friends but not for them :S

    If they really want to get well,it will happen when she's ready.

    I tried all I could thanks for the suggestions


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    #14
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Geomy wrote: »
    That's ok,for me I can live that way and have a laid back empathic nature.

    It's someone I know who would like to get well,they are very codependent on many levels,they tried the 12 step approach etc

    Works for their friends but not for them :S

    If they really want to get well,it will happen when she's ready.

    I tried all I could thanks for the suggestions

    I'm no therapist or anything like that, but i think the first step is to accept that you are the cause of your own problems (i don't mean you personally, i mean in general). Too many people lay the blame for their problems/addictions at someone elses door. Everything we do is our own fault, and any change has to come from within - no "higher power" is going to intervene.
    If you look at it logically, if there is a god, he's allready turned a blind eye to countless famines, epidemics, natural disasters, genocides, rapes, murders and even 2 world wars - he quite clearly isn't going to give a flying fúck about Jane Doe's coke addiction. Only Jane Doe can sort that one out.
    I really do hope your friend gets well.


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    #15
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    I'm no therapist or anything like that, but i think the first step is to accept that you are the cause of your own problems (i don't mean you personally, i mean in general). Too many people lay the blame for their problems/addictions at someone elses door.
    This is so important I believe it should be taught in schools.
    Everything we do is our own fault, and any change has to come from within - no "higher power" is going to intervene.
    Completly agree. Admitting that your powerless, and that by praying to god he could help, is the wrong way to go about things IMHO.


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    #16
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    Geomy wrote: »
    That's ok,for me I can live that way and have a laid back empathic nature.

    It's someone I know who would like to get well,they are very codependent on many levels,they tried the 12 step approach etc

    Works for their friends but not for them :S

    If they really want to get well,it will happen when she's ready.

    I tried all I could thanks for the suggestions

    I had need to conact al-anon before. I phoned an advice line first and poured my heart out to the poor lady on the end of the phone explaining that I was at my wit's end and needed support but that as an atheist I don't have a higher power in which to place faith. She was very understanding and kind and at the end she said "I'll pray for you, god bless you!" - and then called back to apologise! Poor lady, I wasn't offended at all. I was touched that someone cared and would be thinking of me kindly.

    Anyway, I went to a few meetings and was overwhelmed by the support and understanding I got there. There was almost nothing mentioned of higher powers or god, it was just people in the same situation as me talking about their feelings, and listening to mine.

    I have no idea what AA is like and have nothing to recommend to your friend, but if things are getting on top of you, I highly recommend Al-Anon.


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