Trimble-off-any1 else-on

chicoben · 10-03-2008 12:05pm

andyman wrote: »

Bit of a flaw there.

EOS line-up pre World Cup

15. Dempsey
14. Horgan
13. BOD
12. D'Arcy
11. Hickie
10. ROG
9. Stringer
1. Horan
2. Best
3. Hayes
4. DOC
5. POC
6. Easterby
7. Wallace
8. Leamy

Line up yesterday

15. Kearney
14. Horgan
13. BOD
12. Trimble
11. Bowe
10. ROG
9. Reddan
1. Horan
2. Best
3. Hayes
4. DOC
5. POC
6. Leamy
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

Theres 5 changes in there, albeit 2 are injuries but D'Arcy was always going to lose his place to Trimble eventually. And Kearney would have been starting ahead of Horgan had Murphy and Dempsey not been injured. EOS is willing to make the changes that we all want, but it's the team efforts on the day that aren't good enough.

I agree with you on the O'Connell point though. Best played his way back into the side and had a solid game yesterday. MOD did little wrong to warrant him being dropped.

Point taken, but I wasn't referring to the xv who were starting, I was just saying that O' Connell shouldn't have just walked back into the team.

Ulstermell0 · 10-03-2008 12:20pm

trimble misses one tackle on the best/quickest winger in the 6N and all of a sudden he's s****? catch a grip.

i think some Ireland fans think the team should just be made up of munster 1-10 and Lienster 11-15.

trimble had an ok game - If i ever see Bernard Jackass in an Ireland shirt again I think i'll cry. that idiotic penalty when we were only one point down was what lost us that game.

marco_syco · 10-03-2008 12:30pm

1. Shane Williams is dam hard to tackle, trimble wasn't the only player who missed him yesterday i saw many a forward not to mention bowe get the run around a few times. Taller people find it tricky to get a hold of him without high tackling.
2. Darcy would probly have missed him too and on average id say trimble is a much stronger defender than him, BODs fantastic defense always made darcy look good.
3.ROG is the likely choice, theres very few options. My only real extremely unlikely choice would be Jamie Heaslip, (we saw how good Ryan Jones has been for Wales) his form has been the best of any player this 6nations but still he's very inexperienced and I haven't a huge amount of knowledge on how vocal he is.

Snickers Man · 10-03-2008 3:49pm

Trimble's a good centre. He did very well against Scotland. Also, he should have been MOM against South Africa when we tanked them just over a year ago. He had a great game then.

I would have no problem with him playing in the centre against England. I don't want to see Horgan back in the centre though. He ain't a centre no more.

Jigsaw · 10-03-2008 4:15pm

Ulstermell0 wrote: »

trimble misses one tackle on the best/quickest winger in the 6N and all of a sudden he's s****? catch a grip.

i think some Ireland fans think the team should just be made up of munster 1-10 and Lienster 11-15.

trimble had an ok game - If i ever see Bernard Jackass in an Ireland shirt again I think i'll cry. that idiotic penalty when we were only one point down was what lost us that game.

This is sense. Something that the original post demonstrated a distinct lack of.

electric69 · 10-03-2008 4:47pm

Ulstermell0 wrote: »

trimble misses one tackle on the best/quickest winger in the 6N and all of a sudden he's s****? catch a grip.

i think some Ireland fans think the team should just be made up of munster 1-10 and Lienster 11-15.

trimble had an ok game - If i ever see Bernard Jackass in an Ireland shirt again I think i'll cry. that idiotic penalty when we were only one point down was what lost us that game.

Exactly. Some people need to open their eyes when they are watching the matches for a change. Jackman.......why?...completly pointless, idiotic thing to do to a player with 2 hands up in the air.

GreeBo · 10-03-2008 6:38pm

marco_syco wrote: »

1. Shane Williams is dam hard to tackle, trimble wasn't the only player who missed him yesterday i saw many a forward not to mention bowe get the run around a few times. Taller people find it tricky to get a hold of him without high tackling.
2. Darcy would probly have missed him too and on average id say trimble is a much stronger defender than him, BODs fantastic defense always made darcy look good.
3.ROG is the likely choice, theres very few options. My only real extremely unlikely choice would be Jamie Heaslip, (we saw how good Ryan Jones has been for Wales) his form has been the best of any player this 6nations but still he's very inexperienced and I haven't a huge amount of knowledge on how vocal he is.

Hang on a sec, Williams didnt run around Trimble, he handed him off. Trimble had his hands on him and Williams just pushed him away. Whats Trimble going to do against either of Englands wings next week? Bribe them to fall over?

Stev_o · 10-03-2008 6:53pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Hang on a sec, Williams didnt run around Trimble, he handed him off. Trimble had his hands on him and Williams just pushed him away. Whats Trimble going to do against either of Englands wings next week? Bribe them to fall over?

*sigh*

Williams got him on the angle and handed him off. Trimble's body was angled downwards towards Williams all Shane had to do was push up and like a spring he's gone.

Seriously people think its easy to tackle Williams shows how much they know :rolleyes:

GreeBo · 10-03-2008 6:57pm

Stev_o wrote: »

*sigh*

Williams got him on the angle and handed him off. Trimble's body was angled downwards towards Williams all Shane had to do was push up and like a spring he's gone.

Seriously people think its easy to tackle Williams shows how much they know :rolleyes:

*sigh*
You tackle someone high for 2 reasons
1) you are trying to prevent them from offloading
2) you are defending your line

If you want to bring someone to ground you take their legs.
Why was Trimble trying to tackle him high?
Because he doesnt know how to tackle a man to take him down.
Too many players are going for this stupid NFL tackle when whats needed is to stop the man. Take his legs and he stops running. Simple As.

As for "got him on the angle" WTF did Trimble think Williams was going to do? Stop and wait to get hit?

It was a pathetic, badly placed attempt at "the modern tackle"

Stev_o wrote: »

shows how much they know

tackle him much yourself do you?

*sigh* x 10 + 2 extra :rolleyes:

Otacon · 10-03-2008 7:05pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Why was Trimble trying to tackle him high?
Because he doesnt know how to tackle a man to take him down.

I'm afraid here is where you lose me... Trimble has been excellent defensively for a man with a relatively light build. He made one mistake and people immediately choose him as the person to blame.

And please don't say it was THE mistake cos that honour belongs to Jackman.

NotWormBoy · 10-03-2008 7:10pm

Otacon wrote: »

He made one mistake and people immediately choose him as the person to blame.

Well, the only other person you can really blame for that try was Shane Williams, in fairness.

Though Trimble as you say has been pretty decent in defense, and attack, for a while now; dropping him for a missed tackle, even if it led to a try is a bit knee jerk. Especially now that BOD is out.

GreeBo · 10-03-2008 7:10pm

Otacon wrote: »

I'm afraid here is where you lose me... Trimble has been excellent defensively for a man with a relatively light build. He made one mistake and people immediately choose him as the person to blame.

And please don't say it was THE mistake cos that honour belongs to Jackman.

Do you not agree that there are 2 types of tackle for 2 different situations?
I dont think I have ever seen Trimble take a guy low and hard and bring him down (but maybe I just dont remember)

Sure he has a relatively light build, but thats not my fault its his!
You also dont need to be massive to take a guys legs, you do need to be big to wrap him up though. If he is too light to do his job then he shouldnt be there. Shaggy is a big guy and often has poor tackle attempts, same for Lomu. Then you get guys like Wilko who will hit anything and pretty much take it down.

I dont think there was "THE" mistake, Jackman was just stupid.

Otacon · 10-03-2008 7:30pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Do you not agree that there are 2 types of tackle for 2 different situations?
I dont think I have ever seen Trimble take a guy low and hard and bring him down (but maybe I just dont remember)

I do agree that there is a tackle for every situation and as I have already said, I do believe it was a mistake on Trimble's part. But it is not fair to critcise his tackling overall after one mistake when through the tournament, he has been outstanding defensively.

anonymous_joe · 10-03-2008 8:22pm

I don't think it's a good idea to blame either Trimble or Jackman as some seem inclined to.

Trimble messed up a tackle against Shane Williams. Or to put it another way, one of, if not the, trickiest wingers in the world got by someone. Never happened before, eh?

As for Jackman, he was f*cking stupid, of course he was, but he didn't lose the game. The game had been lost long before he came on to the pitch. Our problems are related to the tactics employed by the coach and the way they were implemented by the players.

The inability to shift to another style of play I'd attribute to management. Reddan and O'Gara are our best half-backs, but both of 'em were awful. Reddan's distribution was weak, and he wasted a lot of possession with quick taps and quick kicks. Sometimes that's brilliant, always? Wasteful. O'Gara was awful, scared, unwilling to play, unable to hold his channel and bloody awful in his distribution.

Someone said O'Driscoll hadn't received a pass until well into the second half? That's unacceptable. When you've good backs you're not meant to ignore them, especially when your forwards are putting in a weak, lumbering display.

redved · 10-03-2008 11:29pm

daveyrovers wrote: »

I'm not leinster Ulster or anti-Munster but how can people say Trimble and BOD played bad?

Looking at the stats, it says BOD got two passes in the whole game (the first of which was on 53 mins). He was well marked on both occasions and made little to no ground. He didn't miss a tackle all game and managed one turnover.

ROG attempted 8 tackles and completed 2, do you really want a captain that sets that type of an example.

Can you back that up about O'Gara missing 6 from 8 tackles. The only stats I can find is on Trimble. Missed two tackles

http://www.irishrugby.ie/10735_11279.php

Most Missed Tackles:

3 - Gavin Henson
2 - Gethin Jenkins, Andrew Trimble
1 - Adam Jones, Lee Byrne

GreeBo · 11-03-2008 12:54pm

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Trimble messed up a tackle against Shane Williams. Or to put it another way, one of, if not the, trickiest wingers in the world got by someone. Never happened before, eh?

But you cant just put it that way. That totally hides the facts.
Its not like he burned him on the outside, Trimble had his hands on him and Williams pushed him away.
Getting burned by a faster player or getting side stepepd, while not great, is part and parcel of the game, getting bullied by the smallest guy on the pitch is not.

anonymous_joe · 11-03-2008 12:56pm

I know that, but at the end of the day, Trimble's still fairly young and inexperienced. He's bound to make mistakes. He is not, and probably won't ever be as good as O'Driscoll in terms of his defensive abilities, you can't expect perfection.

Do we have any other decent centres?

Munster have a brace of New Zealanders, Connacht are sadly not good enough, Leinster are injured and off form and Ulster have Trimble already...

GreeBo · 11-03-2008 1:02pm

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I know that, but at the end of the day, Trimble's still fairly young and inexperienced. He's bound to make mistakes. He is not, and probably won't ever be as good as O'Driscoll in terms of his defensive abilities, you can't expect perfection.

and thats great, but either we are blooding new players or we are not.
Right now we seem to fire our backs out any old way and see what happens, that might work for France or NZ but it doesnt work for us.

Trimble was horribly exposed on the wing against France, his defensive positioning/choices were poor to say the least. So either he is not being taught how to play in this position or he is and he just doesnt cut the mustard.

Sorry, but he just seems to be a bit too much huff and puff without the results.

anonymous_joe · 11-03-2008 1:06pm

Well I think he's improved a lot since he first started playing international rugby.

Honest question though, can you name a replacement?

Sadly, for all his faults, with D'arcy and O'Driscoll out, who else out there is a centre and is Irish?

NotWormBoy · 11-03-2008 1:29pm

Kevin Maggs?

Stev_o · 11-03-2008 2:12pm

Put Paddy Wallace at 12 and Trimble at 13 then we actually have a traditional centre pairing that we havent had in years. Both of them know each other very well in these positions so its easier for them to be place together at this short notice

Stev_o · 11-03-2008 2:15pm

Btw here is the try http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=wKlVwNcYcGA Trimble isnt to blame at all as i said before Shane got the angle through the gap and your not going to stop him that far out when he's picked a line like this

hoppo254 · 11-03-2008 2:21pm

How are centres and backs supposed to shine when the coach decides to play a game that almost makes them redundant ? i think Trimble is a good player , i do think Darcy is better but lets face it he was a lot more experience. The game played in the manner the Welsh played it would have suited Trimble , Horgan, O'Driscoll better.

Having looked at the U'20's game the other day im afraid there isnt a lot of talent coming soon so we gotta get the best out of what we have available.

anonymous_joe · 11-03-2008 4:39pm

hoppo254 wrote: »

How are centres and backs supposed to shine when the coach decides to play a game that almost makes them redundant ? i think Trimble is a good player , i do think Darcy is better but lets face it he was a lot more experience. The game played in the manner the Welsh played it would have suited Trimble , Horgan, O'Driscoll better.

Having looked at the U'20's game the other day im afraid there isnt a lot of talent coming soon so we gotta get the best out of what we have available.

Last years under 20s won the Grand Slam. There's loads of talent coming through. Look at Fitzgerald and Kearney even.

Ulstermell0 · 12-03-2008 1:12pm

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I don't think it's a good idea to blame either Trimble or Jackman as some seem inclined to.

Trimble messed up a tackle against Shane Williams. Or to put it another way, one of, if not the, trickiest wingers in the world got by someone. Never happened before, eh?

As for Jackman, he was f*cking stupid, of course he was, but he didn't lose the game. The game had been lost long before he came on to the pitch. Our problems are related to the tactics employed by the coach and the way they were implemented by the players.

totally agree - what i was trying to say earlier was that if there was going to be a scapegoat for the loss, Jackman deserves to be it over trimble, but i'm sad to say theres only one man who can shoulder responsability and it upsets me that he's going to be paid for the next four years worth of work regardless of whether we keep him (more bad performances) or not (have to pay someone to takes his place

)

Limerickjohnny · 12-03-2008 1:53pm

Jees, have to say i'm shocked at the anger being directed towards Trimble in here. Who would you propose playing in centre??

Going on performance in magners league, heineken cup, WC & six nations this season - if D'arcy & O'Driscoll weren't already established internationals they wouldn't deserve to be in the in the training squad let alone the match day squads.

Reddan, Trimble, Bowe (& O'gara in patches) have probably been the stand-out irish backs since the start of the 07/08 season.
A case could probably be made for the murphys of leicester!
Fitzgerald has potential but thats about all - remember matthew tait, first cap for england...

In relation to the tackle on williams, I would have to agree with the analysis on Against the Head on Monday night, Trimble came in-field towards Leamy to close down the space which resulted in a gap that someone could run an aircraft carrier through - which meant he couldn't get close enough to tackle. If he had left the gap between himself and leamy and wales scored, we would be having the same conversation but blaming another player! The whole idea with rugby and phases of play is to create overlaps, mis-matches and space. The welsh did this on saturday, we didn't.

The ultimate cause of the try on saturday, is kearney ran the ball into the tackle (mainly due to crap support lines by irish players), coughed the ball up cheaply to an ultimate ground-hog (martyn williams) and they proceeded to score in the corner 5 phases later.

If you want to assign blame - its the system that has caused players to be utterly clueless about what to do in broken field play. The coaching of the irish team is based completely around the set-piece (scrum & line-out) and running set plays from both, the Irish players should be playing american football not rugby!

Blame the un-imaginate, conservative style of rugby propagated and coached by the boss!!

anonymous_joe · 12-03-2008 7:03pm

Limerickjohnny wrote: »

Blame the un-imaginate, conservative style of rugby propagated and coached by the boss!!

Preaching to the choir.

RuggieBear · 15-03-2008 6:21pm

post in large letters again muincav and you will be banned. It is very off putting and it is not required.

muincav · 15-03-2008 10:47pm

RuggieBear wrote: »

post in large letters again muincav and you will be banned. It is very off putting and it is not required.

Apologies RuggieBear-I didnt realise! Sorry again!:o

Trimble-off-any1 else-on

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