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Big story ....CERN scientists break the speed of light

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    #32
    dapperdon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭dapperdon


    Gandalph wrote: »
    It was only a matter of time, Usain Bolt came close to beating the speed of light in training one day.

    I wonder was the particle tested for performance enhancing substances when it did a Ben Johnson ?.

    I think this will prove to be instrumentation error or similar, i saw it said that it was only a few meters per second faster then the speed of light, you have to wonder why such a tiny increase when you would think vastly faster then light speeds would be just as possible once it had broken light speed.

    Cant help thinking its another "cold fusion" hoopla.


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    #33
    AIDO Tours
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭AIDO Tours


    zuutroy wrote: »
    What hasn't been mentioned is that the effect of doing the experiment in air. It's the speed of light in a vacuum that's the universal constant. Would like to see this addressed.


    the experiment wasn't done in air, it was done in rock. Sound travels faster through a more dense medium so why shouldn't Light?


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    #34
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    If it is an error or a false alarm, I doubt very much that's it's in the Cold Fusion category.

    Is it not the case that Neutrinos/Tachyons have been the subject of very serious scientific study for decades?

    In terms of the process of scientific research, nothing unusual is going on. It's just that this particular finding is generating a lot of general interest, excitement, speculation and media coverage.

    And why not? All the better to stimulate people's interest in science, especially the young aspiring physicists.


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    #35
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    MIT physicist Peter Fisher answers questions about reports that experiments in Switzerland and Italy show neutrinos can break light’s speed limit.


    Q. If this turns out to be some kind of unrecognized systematic error in the measurements, would that reflect badly on the scientists who reported it, or would it just be a reflection of science working as it’s supposed to?

    A. I would say more the latter. I know a number of the people on the OPERA experiment [at Gran Sasso] and they are very thoughtful, careful people who would never publish a result like this unless they were certain there was no better explanation. I would bet that whatever the explanation is, it will be very interesting.




    http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2011/3q-fisher-neutrinos-opera.html


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    #36
    zuutroy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,854 ✭✭✭zuutroy


    AIDO Tours wrote: »
    the experiment wasn't done in air, it was done in rock. Sound travels faster through a more dense medium so why shouldn't Light?

    Because they have totally different means of propagation.


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    #37
    AIDO Tours
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭AIDO Tours


    zuutroy wrote: »
    Because they have totally different means of propagation.


    I disagree with the word totally. Different yes but totally no, they both are propagated as waves, or at least when I was in UCC up to 1999 that was the case


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    #38
    zuutroy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,854 ✭✭✭zuutroy


    AIDO Tours wrote: »
    I disagree with the word totally. Different yes but totally no, they both are propagated as waves, or at least when I was in UCC up to 1999 that was the case

    Sound is transferred through the vibration of matter. Light is transferred through electromagnetic waves/photons and has no need for matter to propagate. The only thing they have in common is that they're waves, but of completely different types (and in light's case it isn't even a wave a lot of the time!)
    Sound travels faster through denser materials because the atoms are packed closely together. Light generally travels slower through matter due to localised disturbances in the electric field of the atoms caused by the electromagnetic wave.


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    #39
    Kohl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 130 ✭✭Kohl


    I'm no physicist, but could the neutrinos possibly have come from somewhere else?


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    #40
    okeanes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 206 ✭✭okeanes


    the paticals that are moving faster than light , how are they moving ?

    does this change anything , and what about science teachers will they have to do a coarse to fully understand this and teach correctly to students .


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    #41
    AIDO Tours
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭AIDO Tours


    zuutroy wrote: »
    Sound is transferred through the vibration of matter. Light is transferred through electromagnetic waves/photons and has no need for matter to propagate........
    Sound travels faster through denser materials .... Light generally travels slower......


    I still disagree with the word totally :) otherwise you are 100% correct.

    It is too long since I studied this stuff and longer again since I made use of it


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    #42
    Ghost_of_ED209
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭Ghost_of_ED209


    Come on.... We all know this was Chuck Norris... He roundhouse kicked someone so hard that his foot broke the speed of light.


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    #43
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    AIDO Tours wrote: »
    I disagree with the word totally. Different yes but totally no, they both are propagated as waves, or at least when I was in UCC up to 1999 that was the case

    They're really not comparable.

    On a very simplistic level they both propagate as waves but to deal with light properly you have to delve into wave packets and quantisation. The mechanisms behind them are almost completely different.
    the paticals that are moving faster than light , how are they moving ?

    Glib answer - they're probably not moving faster then light. If it turns out they were (which I could almost guarantee it won't), then we wouldn't know.


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    #44
    longhalloween
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭longhalloween


    Look, chances are everything we know about the universe is wrong and will be proven wrong at some point.

    But right now the models work and all this will simply further our knowledge. It's a good thing that Einstein was proven wrong, because if our knowledge about physics peaked in the 1940's that would be kinda sad.


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    #45
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    longhalloween wrote: »
    Look, chances are everything we know about the universe is wrong and will be proven wrong at some point.

    That's not even remotely true. Things will undoubtedly be refined somewhat, but to call it "wrong" would be incredibly unfair and essentially inaccurate.
    It's a good thing that Einstein was proven wrong, because if our knowledge about physics peaked in the 1940's that would be kinda sad.

    He hasn't been proven wrong. Nor did he think that GR was the be all and end all. He dedicated quite a large part of his later life to trying to reconcile it with QM but ultimately failed. But if GR was wrong then we wouldn't have GPS amongst many other things.


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    #46
    Giuseppe55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29 ✭Giuseppe55


    How did they detect the neutrinos, anyway? My understanding is that neutrinos practically never interact with any other particles.


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    #47
    Gandalph
    Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭Gandalph


    Its no coincidence Jurrasic Park is back in the cinema lads! We are officially time travellers!


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    #48
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    The barman says, sorry we don't serve time travelers.
    Two time travelers walk into a bar.


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    #49
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    I was into the Neutrinos before they arrived.


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    #50
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    A neutrino walks into a bar.

    And doesn't stop.


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    #51
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Neutrino.

    Who's there?

    Knock knock.


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    #52
    osnola ibax
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭osnola ibax


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    A neutrino walks into a bar.

    And doesn't stop.

    A neutrino walks into a bar and says "its ok, im just passing through"


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    #53
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    osnola ivax wrote: »
    A neutrino walks into a bar and says "its ok, im just passing through"




    No charge then?


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    #54
    roosh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,552 ✭✭✭roosh


    Faster-than-light neutrino claim bolstered

    Interesting article which outlines how they might have accurate measurements.

    I read somewhere that we may have to wait until 2014 before fermilab can test this claim!


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    #55
    Gandalph
    Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭Gandalph


    Enough with all these neutrino jokes.

    I heard them all next week.


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    #56
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    roosh wrote: »
    Faster-than-light neutrino claim bolstered

    Interesting article which outlines how they might have accurate measurements.

    I read somewhere that we may have to wait until 2014 before fermilab can test this claim!





    "But only time will tell whether the result holds up to additional scrutiny..."


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    #57
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,709 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    fontanalis wrote: »
    The barman says, sorry we don't serve time travelers.
    Two time travelers walk into a bar.
    Was it the same person meeting himself ?


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    #58
    Kohl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 130 ✭✭Kohl


    I think this thread has gone off the boil somewhat. Like the actual research story. Mightn't hear anything sensational for a while.


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    #59
    roosh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,552 ✭✭✭roosh


    Kohl wrote: »
    I think this thread has gone off the boil somewhat. Like the actual research story. Mightn't hear anything sensational for a while.
    We might have to wait until 2014!!


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    #60
    roosh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,552 ✭✭✭roosh


    roosh wrote: »
    We might have to wait until 2014!!

    <Insert time travel joke here>


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    #61
    roosh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,552 ✭✭✭roosh


    Just wondering about how this will be tested? I read that scientists at Fermilab were preparing to test it, but could a different group of scientists not use the same equipment, and run it much sooner?


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